Time to shorten the rotation….

[Level 42]

Hunter is flat killing Purdue...he provides absolutely nothing at either end. Matt has indeed tried and tried and tried, but, at this point, it is time to quit trying...or, at least quit forcefully trying...having him on the floor last night for 20 minutes made absolutely no sense at all. It is a Hunter issue at this point...nothing anybody else can do to resolve it, and, he has not been able to resolve it either unfortunately...it truly is mystifying, but, at this point, it is time to just accept it for what it is.

Painter is still trying to find a lineup that works defensively, and, said as much after the game...but, it is just not there unfortunately with this team...this team is going to win games at the offensive end and not at the defensive end. That does not mean that they don't continue to work at/on that obviously, and, if somehow things got better there, it would be a bonus and very much welcomed...but, he needs to have guys that can score on the floor...having guys that can't defend AND can't score is a recipe for exactly what happened last night.

Best assessment yet. It's funny, I remember back in the day people crying because we were way too defensive minded, now we're getting the opposite. The defense needs to improve and I think it will, but this team is built to score and score a lot. When the entire team is missing bunnies and open shots like last night, we struggle.

 

[DAG10]

Fair point. He is still a freshman and we need him in the lineup, so I am not for curbing his minutes just yet.

There are going to be a lot of questions after last night, this team needs to figure it out quickly.

My last comment, if Painter fully believes in Morton, he needs to do a different lineup where he is paired with Ivey/Sasha/Newman and tell Hunter to keep their seats warm.

Nailed it and I think I had already said it elsewhere...can't afford to have Morton and Hunter in at the same time, never mind for 20 minutes...does not work at either end of the floor and harnesses Purdue tremendously at the offensive end.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Fair point. He is still a freshman and we need him in the lineup, so I am not for curbing his minutes just yet.

There are going to be a lot of questions after last night, this team needs to figure it out quickly.

My last comment, if Painter fully believes in Morton, he needs to do a different lineup where he is paired with Ivey/Sasha/Newman and tell Hunter to keep their seats warm.

It just seems like Painter doesn't believe Morton is the answer as the primary ball handler. Morton is doing some really nice things on the floor but I haven't seen him bring the ball up the court more than once or twice the whole year. Makes me wonder if he truly can play that role. I know he played the point in high school but there aren't a lot of 6'6" guys playing the point in the B10.

If he was having any kind of success in practice doing it, I would think we would at least seen a little bit of it by now given the struggles that Hunter has had and IT's inconsistency.

 

[DAG10]

I'm obviously not writing off Furst but In the last 6 games he played, he has averaged 1.7 points and 2.7 rebounds per game in about 16 minutes per game. He's only scored more than 2 points once and has only had more than two rebounds twice.

A far cry from the 10 points and 7 rebounds he averaged the first 7 games. It wasn't only against the cupcakes, as he average 10 and 5 against FSU, NC and Villanova.

Without Furst or TKR, this is essentially the same team as last year that went
18-10. A few of our guys have shown improvement but is it enough to take us from an 18-10 to the Final Four? I don't know but keep in mind both Williams and Ivey were already playing at a high level at the end of last year.

I guess we'll see.

Best point made here, and a very valid one at that....this team is essentially the same team as last year right now. When it played well early, it was largely because of Furst, offense from Newman, and, because Ivey was much more under control...Furst has been noticeably different as you noted...Newman is AWOL completely...and Ivey is on some self-promotion tour of sorts.

Furst is simply too good...and, he needs to play...for that matter, I would have him back in the starting rotation...that was where he flourished, and, Purdue was better as well. That is not a knock on Gillis in any way, as, he is more than capable and played well also...but, Furst does some different things (namely, run the floor and get easy baskets around the rim as a result or off of rebounds), and, he played with such comfort in that role. His "troubles" seemed to start with some alleged foot injury...then he missed time due to Covid protocol...but, for this team to be its best, he will be a big part of that (just as he was at the start of the year).

Newman got 6 minutes last night...that simply can't happen...not when Morton and Hunter got 20 each. He is a streaky guy for sure, but, he can score, and, as already stated here or in other threads, THIS team is going to win by scoring, and, that is something Newman can excel at. He is no worse defensively than other guys getting minutes, and, frankly, there is nobody on this team that is so good at that end that they need to be getting more minutes as a result.

Ivey...special talent/special player IF he plays under control and as part of a team opposed to an individual, and, that was totally not the case last night...it dissolved REALLY quickly into a personal matter with Davis, and, Davis simply could not have been more superior in literally EVERY single way.

Painter is a tremendous coach, but, he had a tough night last night...and, I had alluded to it previously, but, last night was the first time that it stood out to me at least that Johnson is not near what Shrewsberry was...or maybe even Gary.

I appreciate Painter's defensive philosophy and it has served him/Purdue well way more often than not, but, there have been two games now where a guy more or less single-handedly beat Purdue (and a third if you include Nicholls where a guy single handedly kept them in it)...and, if he is not willing to adjust in those types of situations, it won't be the last time that happens...and, I can almost guarantee it will happen in March. I mean there was a play late last night after Davis had already scored 30 where he hit a WIDE open and uncontested 3...that is just ridiculous...frankly, I would have been fine if Purdue had 5 guys on him and somebody else scored a wide open layup as a result, as, I at least could have respected the fact that they knew that the only guy that could not be left open was the guy that instead was indeed left wide open.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Nailed it and I think I had already said it elsewhere...can't afford to have Morton and Hunter in at the same time, never mind for 20 minutes...does not work at either end of the floor and harnesses Purdue tremendously at the offensive end.

I would love to see the data set Painter sees when he makes these lineup decisions. I know Hunter has been a warrior for 4 years but you are as strong as your weakest link, sadly.

At this point, nothing is truly lost but it is time for a change and it is time for Painter to send some sort of message.

 

[DAG10]

It just seems like Painter doesn't believe Morton is the answer as the primary ball handler. Morton is doing some really nice things on the floor but I haven't seen him bring the ball up the court more than once or twice the whole year. Makes me wonder if he truly can play that role. I know he played the point in high school but there aren't a lot of 6'6" guys playing the point in the B10.

If he was having any kind of success in practice doing it, I would think we would at least seen a little bit of it by now given the struggles that Hunter has had and IT's inconsistency.

We are on the same page here...only thing I would wonder is IF he does it in practice even, as, it seems like he is playing anything but the point in games, and, I wonder if that is true in practice as well.

To me...Ivey and Morton should be the primary PGs at this point...Isaiah has not been the same since his injury, and, it may be lingering as well...and, Hunter simply is not the answer...at either end.

I would love to see Morton get the chance, or some time at least, in that role...especially if he is going to play 20 minutes like last night, as, he simply can't be on the floor with Hunter, and, it is not even a great mix with Isaiah.

 

[DAG10]

I would love to see the data set Painter sees when he makes these lineup decisions. I know Hunter has been a warrior for 4 years but you are as strong as your weakest link, sadly.

At this point, nothing is truly lost but it is time for a change and it is time for Painter to send some sort of message.

My guess is that it has more to do with defense...albeit I would suspect it is in theory or hope more so than actual results.

He mentioned post game how he is searching for the right lineup defensively...and, I think he feels like that was what he had with Morton and Hunter, but, it simply is not the case...and, not by a long shot. Like say, the notion that Morton is any sort of lockdown guy is just not accurate...he might be better than guys...he might be the best guy for that matter...but, he is not stopping anyone...he was flat lit up by both Harper and Davis. Like say, he may be better than others and might contest those guys more than others, but, he is not stopping them by any means...and, Hunter is out of sorts at both ends...I cannot wrap my head around the regression at either end in his case.

 

[SCBoiler1]

We are on the same page here...only thing I would wonder is IF he does it in practice even, as, it seems like he is playing anything but the point in games, and, I wonder if that is true in practice as well.

To me...Ivey and Morton should be the primary PGs at this point...Isaiah has not been the same since his injury, and, it may be lingering as well...and, Hunter simply is not the answer...at either end.

I would love to see Morton get the chance, or some time at least, in that role...especially if he is going to play 20 minutes like last night, as, he simply can't be on the floor with Hunter, and, it is not even a great mix with Isaiah.

Morton has played pretty well at the other positions so if Painter thought he was capable, I think we would have seen it. He's played him at the 4 (and he's not a 4) so if he would have shown any ability to play the point I think he would have seen it by now.

I don't know if playing Ivey at the point helps a lot unless you're going to give those extra minutes to Newman and at this point I'm not sure Painter is ready to do that. Newman seems to be the 10th guy right now.

 

[SCBoiler1]

IMO, Purdue's chances of having a great year are going to be dependent on how Sasha plays the rest of the year. When Sasha is hitting, Purdue is really hard to beat. When he's not Purdue is pretty vulnerable, That's probably not fair to put that kind of pressure on Sasha but without help from the other guards not named Ivey, unfortunately the burden is on him.

 

[Level 42]

I don't know if playing Ivey at the point helps a lot unless you're going to give those extra minutes to Newman and at this point I'm not sure Painter is ready to do that. Newman seems to be the 10th guy right now.

Ivey at the point helps until he flies in to a crowd of people uncontrollably. Newman and Hunter need to figure out what is going on between their ears. They both have shown us they have the skill needed to play in the past, they just need to figure it out.

 

[DAG10]

IMO, Purdue's chances of having a great year are going to be dependent on how Sasha plays the rest of the year. When Sasha is hitting, Purdue is really hard to beat. When he's not Purdue is pretty vulnerable, That's probably not fair to put that kind of pressure on Sasha but without help from the other guards not named Ivey, unfortunately the burden is on him.

Entirely accurate...the problem with it is that he can't create his own shot, and, you realizing this (as well as others here) is precisely what opposing coaches recognize as well...so, in a game last night where Davison completely locked him down, it made Purdue VERY beatable (and, same thing happened at Rutgers).

He will be a focus in light of it, and, I don't know how Purdue addresses it...but, if they are not able to in some form or fashion, it is going to have problems, ala last night (and, at times last year as well).

Sasha is arguably the most critical guy in what you have said here is the truth...if he is providing offense, Purdue is very good...if not...not so much unfortunately...it is imperative that his teammates recognize it as well, and, that has not been the case at times.

 

[DAG10]

Morton has played pretty well at the other positions so if Painter thought he was capable, I think we would have seen it. He's played him at the 4 (and he's not a 4) so if he would have shown any ability to play the point I think he would have seen it by now.

I don't know if playing Ivey at the point helps a lot unless you're going to give those extra minutes to Newman and at this point I'm not sure Painter is ready to do that. Newman seems to be the 10th guy right now.

Newman is more than capable...he is just lost right now, and, getting more lost seemingly given the lack of minutes.

Newman's game regressed last year when he came out of the lineup and he struggled the rest of the year. He was good this year with his role, but, that has changed as well unfortunately. Regardless, he simply has to play more than 6 minutes...he is too good (or capable of it at least) to not be on the floor more than that, especially if/when Purdue is struggling to score.

And, personally, you hit on what I would like to see...I want to see Newman on the floor WITH Ivey...it does not happen often and has not happened often, but, I would like to see it...those two guys are close and I think would play well together potentially. At this point, nothing to be lost with trying it at least I would contend. I would like to see the two of them on the floor with Williams in particular (as he does not bog down the middle as much as Edey does, and, he is so much better at passing out of the post as well).

 

[DAG10]

Ivey at the point helps until he flies in to a crowd of people uncontrollably. Newman and Hunter need to figure out what is going on between their ears. They both have shown us they have the skill needed to play in the past, they just need to figure it out.

Very fair point on Ivey, but, he is capable of playing the point and with the ball in his hands, never mind it is likely what he is ultimately going to be doing at the next level.

It is a big if, but, if he could play under control and look more to distribute at times, he could exceed in that role and it would benefit Purdue as well.

Newman is just not getting enough minutes, and, he was pressing before that...but, is really pressing at times now in light of it, or, just disappearing altogether (which is what happened last night).

I could not understand last night in particular why Hunter and Morton were both on the floor as much as they were...I am guessing that it was for defensive purposes, but, even if so, it was pretty irrelevant and it definitely did not justify it in any way.

Furst and Newman getting 6 minutes apiece last night was simply ridiculous...more so when considering Purdue made a collective 7 shots in the first half last night. Purdue is not going to win half-court slugfests, and, it needs to have guys on the floor that can score...Davison completely took Sasha out of the mix last night at the offensive end, and, with Ivey out due to fouls, Purdue was SO lost at that end and was really easy to guard in general...more so in that Williams was looking to pass first opposed to score when he got that ball.

The other thing that keeps getting overlooked is the struggles at the FT line...Ivey was not good at all, and, just needs to be...as he is going to get there a lot...Sasha should be as close to automatic as there is...Williams has never fixed that flaw in his game unfortunately...and Edey needs to be better too.

 

[Level 42]

I'm not surprised Furst got so few minutes coming off of his illness and Gillis playing rather well. There are only so many minutes to go around and Newman I think is just going to be stuck until next year when he will need to be the man.

And really all but a couple people didn't give us much last night if we're fair. Consistency as much as playing hard seem to be our biggest problems at the moment. We're not going to be a defensive juggernaut by any stretch, but some consistency and effort sure would close some of these gaps.

 

[Born Boiler]

Lengthen the rotation. Shorten the expectations. Sure, everyone came back from last year … from the same team that lost to North Texas. That does not magically translate into Final Four material. After three Big Ten games, the favorite is tied for ninth. Time to rediscover hunger.

Dance with the partner who brung ya. This team has played best with a 10-man rotation because everyone has faults, shorter shifts exposes them less and fresher legs do more to compensate. Way back when, North Carolina and Villanova wore down in the final minutes. That wasn’t coincidence. Tighter rotations have led to tighter throats. And two losses. That’s on the record.

Enough scapegoating. Now it’s Hunter. But did anyone notice the 30 seconds before halftime? Thompson looked like Liston against Ali … a TKO, then a phantom shot. Overwhelmed. But he sure wasn’t facing The Greatest. It was Chunky Chucky Cheese.

Share blame but share time between the seven virtual guards. Ivey is inconsistent, as sophomores tend to be. Stefanovic bursts, then disappears, too. Hunter is the better defender but lapses. Thompson is the more accurate shooter but only when abandoned. Newman is athletic but can’t handle, so much so that he throws off his own shot like a 1950s rocket that tilts on liftoff and blasts sideways. Morton and Gillis are so short as forwards that rebounding and defense suffer with either down low. Furst gets twice as many boards.

The lone newcomer, Mr. Basketball, needs game time to help Williams and Edey on the glass and to get his feet wet for foes who are both athletic and big. Furst got 14 total minutes against Rutgers and Wisconsin; he got 57 against Carolina and Nova. Losses or wins?

Don’t play small; play all … our big ten vs. the Big Ten.

 

[Roonil_Wazlib]

Not to pile on, but Hunter had a -17 in 20 minutes last night. It's astonishing how horrible he is.

 

[Level 42]

The lone newcomer, Mr. Basketball, needs game time to help Williams and Edey on the glass and to get his feet wet for foes who are both athletic and big. Furst got 14 total minutes against Rutgers and Wisconsin; he got 57 against Carolina and Nova. Losses or wins?

Ding ding ding. Winner. I don't remember why Furst got so few minutes against Rutgers, but UW I can somewhat see coming off of the 'VID.

 

[Aamesker]

The other thing that keeps getting overlooked is the struggles at the FT line...Ivey was not good at all, and, just needs to be...as he is going to get there a lot...Sasha should be as close to automatic as there is...Williams has never fixed that flaw in his game unfortunately...and Edey needs to be better too.

Ivey shot about his season average from the line last night, although that needs to be up to 80-85% at least. Sasha's shooting 87% from the line, that's pretty automatic for someone that doesn't get to the line often. Tre is getting better, he's up to 58% this season, from 50% last season. Edey's shooting 70% from the line, which is pretty good for someone 7'4"

 

[Aamesker]

Ding ding ding. Winner. I don't remember why Furst got so few minutes against Rutgers, but UW I can somewhat see coming off of the 'VID.

Furst was getting abused by Harper the entire first half and then didn't play the second. Harper was torching us from 3, and then when we put a guard on him (I think EHJ but I don't remember) Harper just scored underneath with ease. Morton was the only one that could keep up down low and on the perimeter but he just got gassed at the end of the 2nd half. Furst and Gillis should have played more the second half of RU game but they couldn't defend anyone and we didn't want to take Tre/Zach out to play small

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Furst may still be recovering from Covid. I thought he, at times, seemed winded.

 

[DAG10]

Lengthen the rotation. Shorten the expectations. Sure, everyone came back from last year … from the same team that lost to North Texas. That does not magically translate into Final Four material. After three Big Ten games, the favorite is tied for ninth. Time to rediscover hunger.

Dance with the partner who brung ya. This team has played best with a 10-man rotation because everyone has faults, shorter shifts exposes them less and fresher legs do more to compensate. Way back when, North Carolina and Villanova wore down in the final minutes. That wasn’t coincidence. Tighter rotations have led to tighter throats. And two losses. That’s on the record.

Enough scapegoating. Now it’s Hunter. But did anyone notice the 30 seconds before halftime? Thompson looked like Liston against Ali … a TKO, then a phantom shot. Overwhelmed. But he sure wasn’t facing The Greatest. It was Chunky Chucky Cheese.

Share blame but share time between the seven virtual guards. Ivey is inconsistent, as sophomores tend to be. Stefanovic bursts, then disappears, too. Hunter is the better defender but lapses. Thompson is the more accurate shooter but only when abandoned. Newman is athletic but can’t handle, so much so that he throws off his own shot like a 1950s rocket that tilts on liftoff and blasts sideways. Morton and Gillis are so short as forwards that rebounding and defense suffer with either down low. Furst gets twice as many boards.

The lone newcomer, Mr. Basketball, needs game time to help Williams and Edey on the glass and to get his feet wet for foes who are both athletic and big. Furst got 14 total minutes against Rutgers and Wisconsin; he got 57 against Carolina and Nova. Losses or wins?

Don’t play small; play all … our big ten vs. the Big Ten.

The end of the half was horribly managed...and, it all started with the decision to take a timeout when they did with 30 seconds remaining...as if they expected to just take the ball then to midcourt and Isaiah just hold or dribble it unguarded for the better part of 20 seconds...it just did not make sense...I said as soon as they did it that I would not be surprised if they did not even get a shot off, thinking THAT might be the worst outcome...I should have known better.

The timeout before even getting the ball to midcourt was just dumb, and, then Isaiah just botched it completely after that.

I agree with your overall post/points though, and, other than Hunter, I don't see any reason to shorten the rotation otherwise...and, I had already said it...Furst is ultimately going to play a big part in where this all ultimately ends up...Purdue was at its best when he was playing, and, I believe that will be the case moving forward...I can somewhat understand the lack of minutes to an extent at least last night coming back from illness, but, he needs to be back in the starting lineup and getting extended minutes moving forward.

 

[DAG10]

Furst may still be recovering from Covid. I thought he, at times, seemed winded.

He did not play enough to even be/get winded...he played a total of 6 minutes.

Yes, he may indeed/likely is still recovering, but, if he was not capable of more than 6 minutes, he might as well not even have played.

It was a conscious decision made to go with Morton...for whatever reason(s), but, it stood out at the time and even more so in hindsight...Furst simply has to get more minutes (as does Newman).

 

[DAG10]

Furst was getting abused by Harper the entire first half and then didn't play the second. Harper was torching us from 3, and then when we put a guard on him (I think EHJ but I don't remember) Harper just scored underneath with ease. Morton was the only one that could keep up down low and on the perimeter but he just got gassed at the end of the 2nd half. Furst and Gillis should have played more the second half of RU game but they couldn't defend anyone and we didn't want to take Tre/Zach out to play small

He played 8 minutes against Rutgers and 6 last night...Harper scored 30 and Davis did the same...in both cases, it was because Morton was on the floor in an effort to apparently stop them, at the expense of Furst or Gills being out there...and, in both situations, Morton did not stop them any more than anyone else who had tried (including Furst against Harper).

Part of the problem is just the fact that Purdue lets those guys get the ball to begin with, and, then go one-on-one essentially once they do...and, they just don't have anyone that can stop someone in such situations...be it Morton or anyone else. They refuse to double and force the guy to give up the ball, and, on the few occasions last night where they did, it was too late and Davis ended up finding someone wide open for a layup or dunk. For years Purdue has had trouble defending the high ball screen, and, it was the case in the Rutgers game and last night as well...and, until Purdue either changes what they do or how they handle it, it will remain an issue.

Again, ultimately with this team, it simply is not going to win games at the defensive end and it just needs to get guys on the floor that allow it to score instead as a result...Purdue had major lulls last night offensively because it had Morton and Hunter on the floor together for long stretches...that ended up serving almost no purpose at the defensive end, and, it genuinely served no purpose at the other end.

 

[Aamesker]

He played 8 minutes against Rutgers and 6 last night...Harper scored 30 and Davis did the same...in both cases, it was because Morton was on the floor in an effort to apparently stop them, at the expense of Furst or Gills being out there...and, in both situations, Morton did not stop them any more than anyone else who had tried (including Furst against Harper).

Part of the problem is just the fact that Purdue lets those guys get the ball to begin with, and, then go one-on-one essentially once they do...and, they just don't have anyone that can stop someone in such situations...be it Morton or anyone else. They refuse to double and force the guy to give up the ball, and, on the few occasions last night where they did, it was too late and Davis ended up finding someone wide open for a layup or dunk. For years Purdue has had trouble defending the high ball screen, and, it was the case in the Rutgers game and last night as well...and, until Purdue either changes what they do or how they handle it, it will remain an issue.

Again, ultimately with this team, it simply is not going to win games at the defensive end and it just needs to get guys on the floor that allow it to score instead as a result...Purdue had major lulls last night offensively because it had Morton and Hunter on the floor together for long stretches...that ended up serving almost no purpose at the defensive end, and, it genuinely served no purpose at the other end.

To me, Morton is the only guard I see giving 100% effort on the defensive end. He may not be the quickest but he's hardly out of position and has active hands and seems to be involved in a lot. On offense he takes care of the ball and makes the right pass, he could be more aggressive with getting his shot but has shown the mentality to pass to an open shooter.

We can win on the defensive end, but it's hard to when our most athletic guards fall asleep and are playing catch up. Ivey has to pick up his assignment better, and Newman has to apply himself on the defensive end to get back on the floor, especially if the shots aren't falling and they aren't. He has to defend and take care of the ball, if he does that then he'll get shots and shoot out of his slump. IT needs to learn from PJ on how to be tough defensively. I feel like EHJ has the yips from his leg break at the start of last season, like he doesn't fully trust his lateral movement to defend.

Sasha isn't a great defender, but I don't think he's terrible, he happens to be the help side defender a lot and when he sags in to occupy the lane, there's no rotation over to his man on a skip pass. It's a double edged sword whether to leave the lane open or the corner 3.

 

[purduepat1969]

Painter ball. High winning percentage. Don't go far in post season.

I forgot, was that a postseason game last night?

 

[purduepat1969]

Ivey at the point helps until he flies in to a crowd of people uncontrollably. Newman and Hunter need to figure out what is going on between their ears. They both have shown us they have the skill needed to play in the past, they just need to figure it out.

Personally, I think Hunter's a lost cause. It's pretty clear he hasn't put in the work. He's the same size (build wise) and it doesn't look like he's added strength since his freshman year. His shot has gone completely backwards. His scoring has regressed year over year since his sophomore season. He's undependable handling the ball and his assist to turnover ratio is horrible. I'm not sure what's happened to him. But it's not good for being a senior...

 

[Level 42]

Personally, I think Hunter's a lost cause. It's pretty clear he hasn't put in the work. He's the same size (build wise) and it doesn't look like he's added strength since his freshman year. His shot has gone completely backwards. His scoring has regressed year over year since his sophomore season. He's undependable handling the ball and his assist to turnover ratio is horrible. I'm not sure what's happened to him. But it's not good for being a senior...

Yeah it's been clear Hunter is this years whipping boy and next year it will be someone else. Par for the course for this forum.

Here is the rub, not one of us on here knows the 'work' he has or hasn't put in because we are basing it on just our own perception and no first hand knowledge. Maybe he works out all the time but doesn't eat right or doesn't have the metabolism to build the muscle you are expecting to see. Look at JJ as an example, he was skinny his entire time here.

He has something mental going on. Whether it's confidence or what, I don't know but he has shown in the past that he is capable, he just needs to find that groove again. If he does or not, that it up to him.

 

[Level 42]

I forgot, was that a postseason game last night?

The Elite 8 run not very long ago also is forgotten it seems.

 

[pubill]

The end of the half was horribly managed...and, it all started with the decision to take a timeout when they did with 30 seconds remaining...as if they expected to just take the ball then to midcourt and Isaiah just hold or dribble it unguarded for the better part of 20 seconds...it just did not make sense...I said as soon as they did it that I would not be surprised if they did not even get a shot off, thinking THAT might be the worst outcome...I should have known better.

The timeout before even getting the ball to midcourt was just dumb, and, then Isaiah just botched it completely after that.

I agree with your overall post/points though, and, other than Hunter, I don't see any reason to shorten the rotation otherwise...and, I had already said it...Furst is ultimately going to play a big part in where this all ultimately ends up...Purdue was at its best when he was playing, and, I believe that will be the case moving forward...I can somewhat understand the lack of minutes to an extent at least last night coming back from illness, but, he needs to be back in the starting lineup and getting extended minutes moving forward.

OK the timeout may have been bad, but most coaches do that to setup end of half situation, but the real problem is a CBB point guard should be able to dribble the ball for 15 secs till time to run the play and IT didn't. I am a 66 year old point guard and I very much believe i could have handled that!

 

[MLB007]

Hunter is flat killing Purdue...he provides absolutely nothing at either end. Matt has indeed tried and tried and tried, but, at this point, it is time to quit trying...or, at least quit forcefully trying...having him on the floor last night for 20 minutes made absolutely no sense at all. It is a Hunter issue at this point...nothing anybody else can do to resolve it, and, he has not been able to resolve it either unfortunately...it truly is mystifying, but, at this point, it is time to just accept it for what it is.

Painter is still trying to find a lineup that works defensively, and, said as much after the game...but, it is just not there unfortunately with this team...this team is going to win games at the offensive end and not at the defensive end. That does not mean that they don't continue to work at/on that obviously, and, if somehow things got better there, it would be a bonus and very much welcomed...but, he needs to have guys that can score on the floor...having guys that can't defend AND can't score is a recipe for exactly what happened last night.

Right after EH's bad pass breakout he came down and and almost threw another one away being extra cautious. he's playing tentatively and if he makes a bad pass it seems to really fluster him.
I tend to agree with you but I'd guess Matt sees him as a Possible difference maker on D if he can get some air back in his lungs.
Trying everything to relax him but i don't see Matt giving up on a sr yet.

 

[DAG10]

OK the timeout may have been bad, but most coaches do that to setup end of half situation, but the real problem is a CBB point guard should be able to dribble the ball for 15 secs till time to run the play and IT didn't. I am a 66 year old point guard and I very much believe i could have handled that!

I don't disagree at all...but, as I said, it was as if Purdue just expected Wisconsin to sit back in a zone or something and let Isaiah dribble the ball for 20 seconds...it just did not make sense. It does not excuse what happened, as, that simply should never ever happen, but, it all started with the timeout being called when it was as it just was not well thought out seemingly.

 

[TX4GB]

Furst may still be recovering from Covid. I thought he, at times, seemed winded.

It could be. There was a play where Wahl backed him down on the post for a bucket. It seemed like he was out after that happened.

 

[DAG10]

Right after EH's bad pass breakout he came down and and almost threw another one away being extra cautious. he's playing tentatively and if he makes a bad pass it seems to really fluster him.
I tend to agree with you but I'd guess Matt sees him as a Possible difference maker on D if he can get some air back in his lungs.
Trying everything to relax him but i don't see Matt giving up on a sr yet.

He is careless with the ball...he threw the ball away on an inbound on a lazy pass to the corner...then lost the ball against the press the one time that Wisconsin actually pressed...he made a horrible entry pass to Edey...he just is not playing the Point as he has and as he needs to...and, he is not defending, at least not with any purpose or to an extent of being a lockdown defender (as he once was).

There simply is no difference maker on this team at the defensive end...Ivey could/should be...Hunter once was...Morton is capable...Gillis is solid...Williams has been pretty good....Sasha is generally sufficient...but, there is nobody that can lock anybody down, and, Purdue is not discernibly better defensively with Hunter, while it is discernibly worse with him offensively unfortunately.

I just am puzzled as to what has happened...be it physical, mental or both...but, he is not even a shell of the guy that he was a couple of years ago. He had the injury last year that you referenced...showed flashes at times...was still pretty good in general at the defensive end at least, although he struggled offensively a ton down the stretch last year...but, this year...he has not been a difference maker in any way at either end and he is just eating up minutes as such that are not productive in any way.

 

[DAG10]

Yeah it's been clear Hunter is this years whipping boy and next year it will be someone else. Par for the course for this forum.

Here is the rub, not one of us on here knows the 'work' he has or hasn't put in because we are basing it on just our own perception and no first hand knowledge. Maybe he works out all the time but doesn't eat right or doesn't have the metabolism to build the muscle you are expecting to see. Look at JJ as an example, he was skinny his entire time here.

He has something mental going on. Whether it's confidence or what, I don't know but he has shown in the past that he is capable, he just needs to find that groove again. If he does or not, that it up to him.

I don't feel like it is a case of him being a scapegoat or what not...the facts (and numbers) do not lie, never mind the eye test.

You are right about nobody really knowing much as to what has gone on or whatever...but, it is clear that there is either something mental, physical or both...regardless, as it stands, he is hurting Purdue WAY more than he is helping Purdue in any and every way right now.

 

[Smokestack91]

It just seems like Painter doesn't believe Morton is the answer as the primary ball handler.

This is probably the case. I remember Morton playing point guard last year when he came back, and it look like he put the ball out in front of him too much looking like it would be easy to steal. It would be nice if he could effectively play the point because he is a great decision-maker and passer and his shot looks good now.

 

[Level 42]

I don't feel like it is a case of him being a scapegoat or what not...the facts (and numbers) do not lie, never mind the eye test.

You are right about nobody really knowing much as to what has gone on or whatever...but, it is clear that there is either something mental, physical or both...regardless, as it stands, he is hurting Purdue WAY more than he is helping Purdue in any and every way right now.

No it is a scapegoat. Every year this forums singles someone out. Been going on forever and will just continue. Hunter is capable of playing well as he has done it before, he just needs to figure out and fix whatever is holding him back.

But we can just agree to disagree. I appreciate the exchange as you see the bigger picture compared to others.

 

[Level 42]

This is probably the case. I remember Morton playing point guard last year when he came back, and it look like he put the ball out in front of him too much looking like it would be easy to steal. It would be nice if he could effectively play the point because he is a great decision-maker and passer and his shot looks good now.

He will likely get his chance to do that next season I am guessing.

 

[DAG10]

No it is a scapegoat. Every year this forums singles someone out. Been going on forever and will just continue. Hunter is capable of playing well as he has done it before, he just needs to figure out and fix whatever is holding him back.

Not in my case he is not...and, I think there are others that have had flaws called or pointed out as well.

Yes, he has shown himself capable...just been a really long time since he has, going back to last year when he really struggled at the end of the year.

What is holding him back is that he has no confidence...he has no confidence because he can't shoot/score, he can't stop guys as he once did, and, he struggles with defensive pressure (heck, he struggles at times with the ball in his hands without defensive pressure).

Ivey hides the flaws of some guys, but in a game like last night, where Ivey was out and Hunter got a lot of minutes, and, a lot of them with Morton, the shortcomings were pretty glaring unfortunately.

I would love for him to get back to where he was a couple of years ago...even just close to it...especially defensively...but, he is not effective right now at either end.

It is not fair certainly to single JUST him out...he is just easy to single out right now, and, on the heels of last night in particular...but, there were a lot of guys that were not at their best last night...in fact, I would contend that nobody was.

To your ultimate point, and, it was one I have made in the past...for Purdue to be as good as it can be in the end, it is likely going to need Hunter to be good, or at least better...if he were to even get back to close to what he had been two years ago it makes Purdue SO much better...problem is, two months in and he is going in the opposite direction seemingly (and unfortunately).

 

[SCBoiler1]

He will likely get his chance to do that next season I am guessing.

Maybe, but IT is back and we have at least one point guard coming in that people seem to be pretty high on. It could just be he's not a point guard and he'll find his niche elsewhere.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Maybe, but IT is back and we have at least one point guard coming in that people seem to be pretty high on. It could just be he's not a point guard and he'll find his niche elsewhere.

On the floor. Not for another team.