The Mathias 3 was GOOD and here's why:
- Thread starter SYoumans
- Start date
Thanks for this. This would also imply the horn is manually sounded by the operator at 0 seconds. I would have thought it was automatic. But this proves DM's shot was late.
Wow...this gets stranger the further I poke into it. Rule 11 covers the use of instant replay, and section 1, article 3 (new for 2015-16) states:
In games when an official uses instant replay to review a potential shot-clock violation as in Rule 11-2.1.b.4, the official shall determine whether a violation occurred by the sounding of the shot clock horn. If the shot clock horn is not audible, the official shall use the reading of zeroes on the shot clock to determine if a shot clock violation occurred. When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands.
So, this would seem to indicate that it's still the horn that takes precedence over the clock, but that as far as the clock is concerned, 0 is still exactly equal to 0, and not something less than or equal to 0.9.
In games when an official uses instant replay to review a potential shot-clock violation as in Rule 11-2.1.b.4, the official shall determine whether a violation occurred by the sounding of the shot clock horn. If the shot clock horn is not audible, the official shall use the reading of zeroes on the shot clock to determine if a shot clock violation occurred. When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands.
So, this would seem to indicate that it's still the horn that takes precedence over the clock, but that as far as the clock is concerned, 0 is still exactly equal to 0, and not something less than or equal to 0.9.
There are not 30.9 seconds in a shot clock. There are simply 30.
When the clock reads 30, it does so for the entire second between 30 and 29. So when there are 29.1 seconds left, the clock reads 30. The same goes for the last second. The clock reads 1 until that full second has elapsed. The clock is also synced with the horn as it sounds when the clock turns zero in the NCAA. There is a manual horn button for players checking in and clock malfunctions. But the clock triggers the horn on shot clock vioaltions.
This whole thing started on a false premise that used the game clock as an example and they are indeed setup differently. The game clock changes to 1 second with exactly one second left. It then immediately changed to decimals instead of at the 0 mark this premise seems to be pushing.
When the clock reads 30, it does so for the entire second between 30 and 29. So when there are 29.1 seconds left, the clock reads 30. The same goes for the last second. The clock reads 1 until that full second has elapsed. The clock is also synced with the horn as it sounds when the clock turns zero in the NCAA. There is a manual horn button for players checking in and clock malfunctions. But the clock triggers the horn on shot clock vioaltions.
This whole thing started on a false premise that used the game clock as an example and they are indeed setup differently. The game clock changes to 1 second with exactly one second left. It then immediately changed to decimals instead of at the 0 mark this premise seems to be pushing.
I get what you're saying in that the shot clock shows 1 second even if it's actually just 0.1 seconds, and that makes perfect sense when you consider that when it clicks to zero it hits exactly 0.0 seconds.
But, if the shot clock reads 30 with 29.1 seconds and 1 with 0.1 seconds, it would read 15 with just 14.1 left, correct?
Why then, if the shot clock shows 15 seconds, wouldn't it be reset to exactly 15 seconds in the case of a kicked ball when it most likely has fewer than 15 seconds on it?
The rule says to reset it if it shows 14 or fewer seconds, not 15 or fewer, which seems to mean that the shot clock represents more time than it shows, not less. Based on the reset rule, a shot clock that shows 15 seconds would have 15 or more seconds, which is why it's not reset...otherwise, you'd be rounding 15.x seconds down to 15. But, a shot clock with 14 seconds is somewhere between 14 and 15, which is why it's reset upwards.
I'm not trying to seem argumentative...I'm just trying to reconcile why, if the shot clock is really showing more time than is actually remaining that it wouldn't be reset back to 15 seconds on a kicked ball.
But, if the shot clock reads 30 with 29.1 seconds and 1 with 0.1 seconds, it would read 15 with just 14.1 left, correct?
Why then, if the shot clock shows 15 seconds, wouldn't it be reset to exactly 15 seconds in the case of a kicked ball when it most likely has fewer than 15 seconds on it?
The rule says to reset it if it shows 14 or fewer seconds, not 15 or fewer, which seems to mean that the shot clock represents more time than it shows, not less. Based on the reset rule, a shot clock that shows 15 seconds would have 15 or more seconds, which is why it's not reset...otherwise, you'd be rounding 15.x seconds down to 15. But, a shot clock with 14 seconds is somewhere between 14 and 15, which is why it's reset upwards.
I'm not trying to seem argumentative...I'm just trying to reconcile why, if the shot clock is really showing more time than is actually remaining that it wouldn't be reset back to 15 seconds on a kicked ball.
The game clock shows decimals because of the rule that anything less than I think .3 requires a tip. You can not catch and shoot. I've seen this several times this year and the officials are consistent. Still in the hand at zero means no basket.
Not to beat a dead horse, but prior to 2006 the shot clock on a kicked ball was reset to exactly 15 seconds if 15 or fewer seconds were showing. In 2006 it was explicitly changed to 14 or fewer seconds because 14 seconds really meant 14 or more seconds and 15 seconds meant 15 or more seconds. Thus, resetting on 15 seconds was potentially taking away tenths of a second of possession time. That's why the rule was changed.
This just seems counter-intuitive...
This just seems counter-intuitive...
The game started at approximately this time yesterday. That means this thread has endured for a little less than 22 hours. I suggest we find ways to make it continue into infinity so it can be the longest forum thread in the history of the world. I have my popcorn in hand.
watching it live at mackey i thought it was good. watching the replay there i thought it was good. tried to watch it on btn replay but of course they fast forwarded ahead of that shot. glad it didnt have any influence on the outcome. the refs need to go back and learn what traveling is tho. they missed happ several times with happy feet but sure knew what it was when we did it
When you say it started a little less than 22 hours ago, do you mean that timer started at exactly zero hours and the first hour didn't occur until 60 minutes later, and that after an additional 59 minutes the thread would still be an hour long, but just one minute later it would be two hours long?
Good one. Now that is the spirit needed to propel this thread into the NeverNeverLand I had hoped.
You know you're on a Purdue board when people are dissecting technical stuff like this just for the fun of it!
But no one has discussed the 1/2 life of the power source as it relates the latency between the output from the power source and the display of the clock readout .... yet
This. I was in Mackey Sunday night too and the by the eye/ear test looked like it was good.
Most gyms including IU have a red light that goes off when the shot clock expires. Do we need to take up a collection to buy Mackey a couple of those? Takes the guess work out of it.
Are you saying that the athletic director has once again slighted the necessary funding to the basketball program to make it elite? Well, guess CMP will have to hint at a move to another low level program to get that fixed (TIC).
Okay, let's make sure we are all on the same page:
- Purdue has a synchronized buzzer and light that goes off when the shot clock hits 0.000.
- The ball was still in Mathias' hands when the buzzer/light went off.
- The referees made the right call in disallowing the basket.
- Time for this informative thread to die.
The way I understand this whole process to work. The processor sends a signal to the shot clock and/or horn-lights etc.Okay, let's make sure we are all on the same page:
That non-basket made no difference in the outcome of the game.
- Purdue has a synchronized buzzer and light that goes off when the shot clock hits 0.000.
- The ball was still in Mathias' hands when the buzzer/light went off.
- The referees made the right call in disallowing the basket.
- Time for this informative thread to die.
The processor is located at the scorers table which is some 15 meters from the horn/clock. Light travels at roughlt 300,000,000 m/s.
Therefore I estimate the processor actually hit zero at 5 x 10 to the -8 before the buzzer sounded and/or the clock read 0. I therefore believe the shot was no good. We still won the game. Yippie.
Okay, let's make sure we are all on the same page:
That non-basket made no difference in the outcome of the game.
- Purdue has a synchronized buzzer and light that goes off when the shot clock hits 0.000.
- The ball was still in Mathias' hands when the buzzer/light went off.
- The referees made the right call in disallowing the basket.
- Time for this informative thread to die.
I Agree this thread needs to die, I also believe that we need to update the shot clock. A thread like this would have never been posted if we had XX.XX
You're forgetting there's likely a solid state relay inside the clock which will send an output signal to the processor first telling it the clock is at 0.0. The processor then will create an output for the horn. That's even more time! Now we're on to something...
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