That's a wrap. The Sweet 16 is our ceiling under Painter.

[purduepat1969]

We might be a bubble team next year. Unless the young guys can step right in... We do not have someone to plug in for Vincent Edwards. I think the drop from Mathias to Cline is pretty big. Nojel may be a step up. Haarms is a step up defensively. No bench again. But people have the excuses built in about graduation losses. Justify an NIT bid.

The only real proven scoring option next year is Carsen Edwards. And he will likely be gone after that. Haarms is great, but I don't see him being a replacement for Vince's production. Eastern is a very good player, but I haven't seen any shooting capability yet. Cline is clearly not the guy. Unless these freshmen are amazing, next year is going to be ugly. And if I see Eifert in a starting role, I know things are not good. No offense to him, but he's a limited role player.

 

[asmith640]

I can't understand why we always look so lost on the big stage. It happens every year regardless of the roster...what is the common denominator?

4 minutes left and Vince has 6 turnovers.

After that game I'm just happy to be a fan.

Dakota will be haunted by the worst offensive game of his senior season.

Vince will be haunted by wondering if he will be drafted after a defense played him hard.

Isaac will be haunted by not being able to be out there .

Matt will be haunted by costly turnovers that were easy to grab.

After that game, I'm just happy to be a fan and not having to relive the haunting feeling of "what if" as a player

 

[BoilerMaker P]

That was the only one who came to mind.

E'twaun Moore at East Chicago
Caleb Swanigan at Homestead are a couple that come to mind

 

[RegionWarrior101]

E'twaun Moore at East Chicago
Caleb Swanigan at Homestead are a couple that come to mind

I am talking about one team. Loyola has 7 on one team. Funny how Moore and Swanigan won some hardware their last seasons...

 

[BoilerMaker P]

Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about teammates. I was just thinking of Purdue guys who had won a championship in high school. Carry on.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I am talking about one team. Loyola has 7 on one team. Funny how Moore and Swanigan won some hardware their last seasons...

Next year we'll have Cline and Hunter.

 

[Casey and his Brother]

This was a double national championship season for a big portion of the fan base. First, a Sweet 16 is the pinnacle of success. When you can pair it with an excuse like the Haas injury, then it's worth two banners.

 

[tjreese]

LOL at you people. Look at the upsets in the tournament. Let me EXPLAIN something to you fans., OK here goes... You don't fire coaches who make the NCAA tournament. You fire them for not making the tournament. Do you think Cincy is going to fire their head coach after blowing a 22 point lead. Because I was over on the Cincy Enquirer. They were whining how that Cincy coach can't get Cincy to the Sweet 16. LOL

I tell you if Matt gets Purdue in the tournament next season I will be impressed and I think he will.

Bottom line Matt needed players to step up tonite off the bench and in the post and they didn't do it and they lost. They lost to a 3 seed. A team that was in the top 10 most of the year. Tough way to end the season as any tourney loss is.

But if you thought Purdue was going to beat Nova if they had beaten Tech. I just did not see that happening without Haas.

I agree a lot with the things you have said (here and in above posts), BUT always thought Tech would be more difficult than Nova for Purdue...just due to the athletes and loss of Haas...but that is all guess work I know.

 

[Dakota Girl]

i like painter, and don't think he's a problem.
at the same time, it seems there are other teams that do more with less, and wonder how purdue can improve like them.

did TT pop out of nowhere this year, or was this due to their improved coaching?
regardless, the more concerning thing to me is the statements that TT has the better athletes/players (despite our many advantages noted above).


this is also interesting, because that is a common theme we hear post game - not just this year, but in years prior also.

really surprising now, considering such an experienced squad.

As a follow up. I went to the Indiana state championship game between Warren Central and Carmel last night.
Carmel reminded me of Purdue in terms of the team being more skilled than athletic in comparison to Warren who while not poorly skilled did have excellent athletes at all positions.
Carmel looked like they were going take the title and led nearly the entire game. But in the fourth quarter Warren turned up the heat. They bumped, grabbed, held, elbowed, shoved and fought harder and at a higher speed than Carmel could match. In the end with a 4 or 5 point lead Warren went to a fantastic spread time killer and forced free throws. Warren hit them all and Carmel just couldn’t close it down. The press and the spread at the end showed how athleticism impacts the game.

 

[BoilerBiker]

As a follow up. I went to the Indiana state championship game between Warren Central and Carmel last night.
Carmel reminded me of Purdue in terms of the team being more skilled than athletic in comparison to Warren who while not poorly skilled did have excellent athletes at all positions.
Carmel looked like they were going take the title and led nearly the entire game. But in the fourth quarter Warren turned up the heat. They bumped, grabbed, held, elbowed, shoved and fought harder and at a higher speed than Carmel could match. In the end with a 4 or 5 point lead Warren went to a fantastic spread time killer and forced free throws. Warren hit them all and Carmel just couldn’t close it down. The press and the spread at the end showed how athleticism impacts the game.

good insight thanks.
i'm still surprised/concerned how texas tech manages to get a more desirable roster. is there any other player attribute that lesser programs have that purdue should focus on in the future?

in prior tourney losses, many argued we just didn't have the recruits, nba talent, etc.
now (compared to TT), painter has acquired the higher ranked recruits, but now lacks the athleticism. grrrr!

texas tech top 8 contributors:
247 composite rank avg: 282
rivals: one 4 star (16 min/game as upperclassman)

purdue top 8 contributors:
247 composite rank avg: 184
rivals: three 4 stars (haas dnp this game)
(and that's not even crediting purdue with last years first 5 star / top 2 player in the country... who some might debate his athleticism too)

 

[Dakota Girl]

good insight thanks.
i'm still surprised/concerned how texas tech manages to get a more desirable roster. is there any other player attribute that lesser programs have that purdue should focus on in the future?

in prior tourney losses, many argued we just didn't have the recruits, nba talent, etc.
now (compared to TT), painter has acquired the higher ranked recruits, but now lacks the athleticism. grrrr!

texas tech top 8 contributors:
247 composite rank avg: 282
rivals: one 4 star (16 min/game as upperclassman)

purdue top 8 contributors:
247 composite rank avg: 184
rivals: three 4 stars (haas dnp this game)
(and that's not even crediting purdue with last years first 5 star / top 2 player in the country... who some might debate his athleticism too)

Maybe we are seeing it with Carsen, Haarms, and the next two classes. Time will tell.

 

[tjreese]

I think it is all part of the culture we have created. Pretty good regular seasons, peak early like late January, early February. This was Painter's third Sweet 16 and really has failed to compete in all 3.

Of course there will be "Was Painter the guy missing shots?" crowd, but the proof is in the results. Something about the team culture causes them to loose mojo when pressure is on.

In the end it comes down to what you value. That Conference title every six years or making a longer tournament run every few years. Belein is the guy I am thinking about.

I have always held the opinion that the tourney was about players and the season more about coaching. I believe that because I hold a belief that more coaching is "available" when you know the other teams better...as a team tendency and the players individually. That is why I thought a fresh start...with fresh legs where teams don't know each other might be an advantage with Haas..and Purdue appeared to be heading that way with a huge blowout until the last take down that crumbled the foundation of Purdue's offense

 

[tjreese]

Bobinski was not AD then. Painter will not take us into the basement again and still have a job here.

You understand why we went into the basement right? We did it in all major sports, not just men's basketball. It was administrative and financial. It had noting to do with the coaches at the time.[/QUOTE]
Shhhh, I thought that was a secret. Now you spoiled the surprise.

 

[tjreese]

Whose fault is it that we don’t have developed depth? Texas Tech went 10 deep and I didn’t see much falloff. Haarms may have not been ready developmentally, but Painter had four years to develop someone beside Haas and Vince. And there is no one there at the power forward position ready to take Vince’s minutes except Grady Eifert. There lies the problem.

First, Vince was not a power forward and second there really wasn't a replacement for him. I agree that better depth was needed and ultimately that is Matt's responsibility to control what he can to create depth.

I think many recognize many of the problems that led to the "missing years" administration, budget, coaches leaving and not getting Big type players. AJ was the centerpiece and Matt quickly tried to patch the hole and save the boat recruiting skill to surround AJ and to bring in another low post player to compliment those skill players he was getting. To our surprise Haas declared Wake when everyone knew he would be better at Purdue and then flipped. These players, great kids, good ball players accomplished quite a lot actually even though they fell short of their dreams and the dreams of some.

Purdue would have had more depth this year had Wheeler and Shasha not red-shirted...along with Taylor getting real minutes, but we know that hasn't happened. Matt had a lot of depth three or four years ago and that depth (lack of minutes) led to two transfers (Bryson/Kendall) and one quitting Basil. It truly is hard to play past 8, but I'll agree that Taylor should have found more time on the court. Purdue now needs to somehow get more balance between classes. Ultimately, Matt bears the responsibility for creating "sufficient" depth, but the story may have more depth than on the surface as do most things...yes, THAT could be directly tied to Matt.

 

[BoilerBiker]

You understand why we went into the basement right? We did it in all major sports, not just men's basketball. It was administrative and financial. It had noting to do with the coaches at the time.
__
Shhhh, I thought that was a secret. Now you spoiled the surprise.

that narrative takes it to the extreme though, and has largely been debunked before. I usually agree more with these two points:

1. the football demise did have a wee bit to do with coaching too. even Burke knew he had to be more competitive $ wise by the end. it was just a poor hire.

2. years before, both keady and tiller voiced complaints about pay & facilities. some like to attribute the decline to primarily cordova, but previous coaches had to fight and endure lower $ as well.

fast forward to now...
thankfully we've had several years of the increased recruiting budget, assistant pay, facilities, etc in basketball. will bobinksi continue to open the pocketbook for painter? he is still near average salary in the big ten (7th) and nationally (29th).

 

[tjreese]

that narrative takes it to the extreme though, and has largely been debunked before. I usually agree more with these two points:

1. the football demise did have a wee bit to do with coaching too. even Burke knew he had to be more competitive $ wise by the end. it was just a poor hire.

2. years before, both keady and tiller voiced complaints about pay & facilities. some like to attribute the decline to primarily cordova, but previous coaches had to fight and endure lower $ as well.

fast forward to now...
thankfully we've had several years of the increased recruiting budget, assistant pay, facilities, etc in basketball. will bobinksi continue to open the pocketbook for painter? he is still near average salary in the big ten (7th) and nationally (29th).

I'm guessing that the football hire hinged on the money back then as well. The snowball grew and grew and think #2 effected Tiller more than Keady. The issue is that "coaches" as important as they are in recruiting...and perhaps the most important thing for some recruits still pales in the totality of all the variables in play. Purdue cannot sustain an arms race with OSU and Michigan and win. It can do much better than the recent past, but if the stadium is full OSU and Michigan get about two years revenue for each year Purdue would get "IF" full. That football revenue helps a lot...

 

[Do Dah Day]

First, Vince was not a power forward and second there really wasn't a replacement for him. I agree that better depth was needed and ultimately that is Matt's responsibility to control what he can to create depth.

I think many recognize many of the problems that led to the "missing years" administration, budget, coaches leaving and not getting Big type players. AJ was the centerpiece and Matt quickly tried to patch the hole and save the boat recruiting skill to surround AJ and to bring in another low post player to compliment those skill players he was getting. To our surprise Haas declared Wake when everyone knew he would be better at Purdue and then flipped. These players, great kids, good ball players accomplished quite a lot actually even though they fell short of their dreams and the dreams of some.

Purdue would have had more depth this year had Wheeler and Shasha not red-shirted...along with Taylor getting real minutes, but we know that hasn't happened. Matt had a lot of depth three or four years ago and that depth (lack of minutes) led to two transfers (Bryson/Kendall) and one quitting Basil. It truly is hard to play past 8, but I'll agree that Taylor should have found more time on the court. Purdue now needs to somehow get more balance between classes. Ultimately, Matt bears the responsibility for creating "sufficient" depth, but the story may have more depth than on the surface as do most things...yes, THAT could be directly tied to Matt.

I have a strong tendency to never look back, it's over. We learned some stuff. But spending much time on any aspect of it is useless. A quick look at the '18-'19 roster shows eleven potential players. I deeply wish we had some form of summer games, but we don't. In my opinion, although I do hate opinions, our underclassmen have attributes (athleticism) that our upperclassmen lack. It appears a couple of them need skill dev. I hope we give them all a lot of minutes in Nov/Dec. Let them make mistakes, let them grow.

I hope Carsen becomes a strong and assertive leader. We have not had that for a while. I'l love to see him drive his persona on the team. I would not be upset if we played ten guys next year - at least the first two months, and I am NOT normally in favor of that. When we find out who will be joining these guys, either this fall or next, we will have more info to make future guesses with.

I couldn't miss the camaraderie this year INCLUDING the underclassmen. That can be very valuable for next year. If two new players (I'll guess it'll be a redshirt and a freshman) become solid contributors by January, we could make a Michigan like run (not suggesting FF, simply a far better late season).

 

[BoilerMaker P]

our underclassmen have attributes (athleticism) that our upperclassmen lack. It appears a couple of them need skill dev. I hope we give them all a lot of minutes in Nov/Dec. Let them make mistakes, let them grow.

I agree with this 100%. There is definite potential. They may have to take some lumps early, but if this coaching staff is as good as many on here promise, there is no reason they can't be competitive in the conference, BTT, and postseason. While it will be a rebuild, it may not be as painful as expected. Heck, just having a dynamic player like Carsen may be enough to carry them to a tournament berth (see Oklahoma this year).

 

[tjreese]

I have a strong tendency to never look back, it's over. We learned some stuff. But spending much time on any aspect of it is useless. A quick look at the '18-'19 roster shows eleven potential players. I deeply wish we had some form of summer games, but we don't. In my opinion, although I do hate opinions, our underclassmen have attributes (athleticism) that our upperclassmen lack. It appears a couple of them need skill dev. I hope we give them all a lot of minutes in Nov/Dec. Let them make mistakes, let them grow.

I hope Carsen becomes a strong and assertive leader. We have not had that for a while. I'l love to see him drive his persona on the team. I would not be upset if we played ten guys next year - at least the first two months, and I am NOT normally in favor of that. When we find out who will be joining these guys, either this fall or next, we will have more info to make future guesses with.

I couldn't miss the camaraderie this year INCLUDING the underclassmen. That can be very valuable for next year. If two new players (I'll guess it'll be a redshirt and a freshman) become solid contributors by January, we could make a Michigan like run (not suggesting FF, simply a far better late season).

I'm guessing that Purdue will be able to score and rebound. I hope the turnovers are down and they are focused on detail to be able to defend. Chemistry is a huge question as is...how well will this team pass the ball? If the players work hard on doing the right techniques and putting forth the effort in the areas each need to improve...with attention to detail on shooting, ball handling and open gym...like you this team should grow over the year. Purdue just needs to come out of the game in preseason enough to win and get experience for those newbies so that growth continues throughout the season.

What a great group of seniors we just witnessed, but I'm optimistic that this group has the potential to surprise people as well. Football and basketball are on the way up...

 

[BoilerGrad2001]

I'm guessing that Purdue will be able to score and rebound. I hope the turnovers are down and they are focused on detail to be able to defend. Chemistry is a huge question as is...how well will this team pass the ball? If the players work hard on doing the right techniques and putting forth the effort in the areas each need to improve...with attention to detail on shooting, ball handling and open gym...like you this team should grow over the year. Purdue just needs to come out of the game in preseason enough to win and get experience for those newbies so that growth continues throughout the season.

What a great group of seniors we just witnessed, but I'm optimistic that this group has the potential to surprise people as well. Football and basketball are on the way up...

I'm more worried about next years team's ability to score than I am about their defense. We know Carsen will be able to score, but other than him there isn't anyone on the roster that we have SEEN score in bunches. Defensively, with Carsen, Eastern, and Haarms, we should be good defensively.

 

[tjreese]

I'm more worried about next years team's ability to score than I am about their defense. We know Carsen will be able to score, but other than him there isn't anyone on the roster that we have SEEN score in bunches. Defensively, with Carsen, Eastern, and Haarms, we should be good defensively.

I fully expect a guard like Hunter to come in and be able to score as a freshman. Less sets and no low post and experience should help Nojel. Wheeler could score before and Shasha isn't shy about looking to the basket. Cline is a senior should be an improved version from this year and Haarms knows more of where he is and what he needs to do. Carsen gets taped ready to score. Tre wont be shy about bullying people under the rim and Dow...jsut tell the big fella that most shots are misses and they are his to get..and when Purdue shoots get the rebound and stuff the damn ball and them too if they get in the way. Taylor...I bet Purdue gets more from him next year than this year..whatever that is

Now, if chemistry is not there and lack of teamwork doesn't help each then individually they will be limited, but all able to do some things on their own. Every year a team loses X amount of offense and unproven guys step up and score, but the key it to make sure the other teams scores less and defensively is many times a larger adjustment. Speculation like this is what is fun with newbies...

 

[djy2j]

I'm not counting on much improvement from Cline. Not sure why he couldn't find more shots this year with more offensive weapons taking the heat off him.

Next year will be harder for him to get open because of less proven scoring threats. The way he's going to have to earn minutes is with how he plays on D.

Hoping Painter really looks into tweaking the offense to fit his players rather than making his players fit the offense.

 

[tjreese]

I'm not counting on much improvement from Cline. Not sure why he couldn't find more shots this year with more offensive weapons taking the heat off him.

Next year will be harder for him to get open because of less proven scoring threats. The way he's going to have to earn minutes is with how he plays on D.

Hoping Painter really looks into tweaking the offense to fit his players rather than making his players fit the offense.

These last two years the offense was tweaked to the players..inside to haas adn outside to players that could shoot. Next year will be a lot more movement...a lot more slashing I think and a lot more getting up and down the court. They just have to be smart about playing fast. I too doubt we see a big improvement in Cline...but he does require players to not help off of him and may be a compliment to those drivers and post players. I would love for GRady to be a real threat behind the arc...becasue he does do a lot of effort plays and every team can use a guy like that...just not a whole team

 

[BoilerBiker]

I agree with this 100%. There is definite potential. They may have to take some lumps early, but if this coaching staff is as good as many on here promise, there is no reason they can't be competitive in the conference, BTT, and postseason. While it will be a rebuild, it may not be as painful as expected. Heck, just having a dynamic player like Carsen may be enough to carry them to a tournament berth (see Oklahoma this year).

agree, I think we will likely be in the tourney next year.

the big ten has been averaging ~ 6 bids in painters timeframe, so it seems doable to finish in that top portion of the conf.

 

[Do Dah Day]

These last two years the offense was tweaked to the players..inside to haas adn outside to players that could shoot. Next year will be a lot more movement...a lot more slashing I think and a lot more getting up and down the court. They just have to be smart about playing fast. I too doubt we see a big improvement in Cline...but he does require players to not help off of him and may be a compliment to those drivers and post players. I would love for GRady to be a real threat behind the arc...becasue he does do a lot of effort plays and every team can use a guy like that...just not a whole team

I don't expect much improvement in Cline, but that's fine. It's time for a new world order. I desperately hope that Carsen is a bad-ass leader, the one who drives every player to greater levels, who never settles and makes sure others don't either. Painter is less emotional than many (thank god), but Carsen needs to just take the reins of the locker room. This is a concept that is prevalent but rarely discussed. I am sure Matt is fine if he does, and I think he is fine doing it. Was Kramer the last one to do that? Maybe Bird? not sure, but who cares, not interested in looking back. Let's fking come out mean and aggressive and as close to being bullies as we can without being jerk-bullies. We are going to rebuild and could be eleven deep ... Katy bar the doors, you are going to be afraid to play us ... when has that ever been said ... I just texted Haarms ... He's ALL IN ...