Some are really waking up
- Thread starter BombadEER
- Start date
Where in any of that did he defend Putin and say that that’s central to anything happening in the us? “A guy did something bad somewhere else we have to do something” isn’t persuasive.. the us supports 73% of the worlds dictators.
You assault Putin because you don’t want an autopsy to answer the question “how the F did we lose to a wrestling gameshow host.”
By the way, wanna know why Clinton lost? Has nothing to do with Russia, bernie Bros or Susan surandon
What would you have had Obama do to stop Putin......exactly?
IMO Obama underestimated Putin and his motives and refused to see them as the threat they really were. He was passive and cautious which may have sent the wrong signal and resulted in Russia's increased activity in Syria and other areas. He dismissed them as anything but a regional power. I also think he thought he could establish a working relationship with Putin, a mistake Bush made and Trump is making now.
What I don't understand is why people criticize Obama or Bush for trying to have a better relationship with Putin.......and were shown to be wrong........but somehow a FAR more friendly approach will work for Trump.
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I haven't stated I am a conservative. I am a registered unaffiliated voter in NC.
I defend the left when the current admin and it's supporters don't tell the truth about them. A lot of that going on.
Where is your argument ... you posted two totally unrelated things and then have nothing to back it up except I drink coffee ....
Come on MSNBC.. Argue with something the man said establishment boy
I really don't understand where you are even coming from. Are you a Trump supporter or are you saying he is just more of the same? If you don't like Trump who or what do you support? Russia?
Not a trump supporter... but the explanation of why he won is easy and has nothing to do with russia... he is more of the same george bush bullshit ... but if you pay attention to democrats they hate what he says but love going along with what he does..
But you posted two replies and I am asking you what they have to do with anything
I believe Russia did try to impact the election but did it really affect the outcome I'm not sure? I just am alarmed that Trump seems to think an authoritarian like Putin is okay. Russia throughout its entire history has never had anything close to a republic like we have and Putin is KGB. I prefer one man one vote still don't you? I find Trump wanting to distance himself from traditional allies very alarming as I don't trust his judgment because I will guarantee you that if Trump had to take a general world history exam you would be very disappointed in what he actually knows and yet some are relying on him to completely make-over foreign policy by his own instincts. However, somebody has to lead us and again I still can't figure out who you are looking to for that leadership BoilermakerD.
You also supported Obama, when he and his administration were lying to us. So it's not the lies that matter as much as who is telling them?
I'm not sure you really know what's going on in Yemen... how do you get to "we" are dropping bombs in Yemen? The Saudis are. We don't provide them much military aid at all. That's an old-school Sunni-Shia proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and US ships were caught in the crossfire a couple of years ago. I'm sure we've conducted some drone strikes there, but as far as wasting operational money on someone else's war, complaining about Yemen right now is tilting at a windmill IMO.
Again, many people in Yemen support the "recognized" government. Many do not. You speak in absolutes an awful, awful lot regarding situations that are far more nuanced.
Come on man.. you’re no fool... we supply the Saudi’s with a lot of arms and are strong allies... remember we are the same country that “has to do something” about a “brutal dictator” when they have oil or we want to run a pipeline through their country...
The reason we don’t do anything is the Petro dollar... which I’m sure you don’t know much about. By design
Wrong. Didn't support him, didn't vote for him either election. Stick to things you know to be true.
I guess what confuses people is the idea that someone can actually say something nice about a politician without actually having voted for them......or even agreeing with them on very many issues. If you're stuck in partisan mode........my side is great and your side sucks, it's hard to understand.
I believe you're misunderstanding what Trump is doing.
Allies - He's not pushing our Allies away from us, he's merely not allowing our Allies to take advantage of us like previous administrations have. He's sticking up for the U.S. for a change. He's putting pressure on our NATO allies to cough up their fair share of the agreed upon funding to support NATO. They've been paying about half of what they had agreed upon and the US has been picking up the tab for the rest. That's OUR tax dollars being spent to protect THEM. He's just asking them to do what they had agreed to do and it's ruffling some feathers. They have been increasing their funding lately, but it's still short of what it should be.
Additionally, he has been trying to get the playing field level on trade between us and our Allies. They have no problem charging us all kinds of tariffs on items coming into their countries, but they're screaming bloody murder if he threatens to reciprocate. EU charges a 10% tariff on all US cars sold in Europe. We charge a 2.5% tariff on cars they sell in the US. At the G7 meeting, he suggested that we just eliminate all tariffs between our countries and they wanted no part of it. I believe Canada charges a 290% tariff on all dairy products from the US, which is essentially saying we don't want your products in our country. We can't continue to be the big cookie jar for the rest of the world, where they keep eating cookies and we keep filling the jar.
Russia/China - He's been a lot tougher on Russia than the previous two administrations have been. I can still recall Obama saying, "Tell Vlad that I can probably be a lot more flexible, after the coming election". Did that flexibility mean turning his head as the Crimea was annexed by Russia?
Trump tends to flatter people and feed their egos, before he meets them. It's a disarming tactic to make them relax. Don't confuse flattery with idolatry. I have no doubt that he'll have a meaningful conversation with "Vlad", where he'll explain our position with regard to Russia. He may not be that articulate, but he understands negotiating from a position of strength.
Everyone is panicking about a trade war with China. It is in no one's best interests to have a trade war and I would bet anything that it won't occur. Both sides will posture for a while, then they'll meet and negotiate a new trade deal that will be better for the US. It may still be unfair, but it will be better. At least we are addressing the problem, instead of pretending it doesn't exist. There are still a lot of other issues to sort out with China, but we're moving in the right direction.
Trump has good instincts, when it comes to reading people and negotiating. Albert Einstein probably didn't know didly about negotiating, but he knew Physics. Negotiating is Trump's Physics. Let him do what he does best and be patient.
As much as you accuse liberals of believing everything they see on the news, you just did the exact same thing. Trump and Fox verbatim.
The Canadian dairy thing is Trump personified......and no, they don't charge 290% on all dairy products. That's what Trump has said about 15 times and it's not true.
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We sell the Saudis arms, almost exclusively older technology we no longer use and often from our inventory. Maybe that's a fine line.
In general, I agree. I'd rather not be involved over there anyway, but we're not financing a proxy war via Saudi Arabia right now. Honestly, I'm pleasantly surprised we have (generally) stayed out of the Yemen situation.
I think we do need to be involved in the ME, because it is a breeding ground for problems that impact our security. Completely ignoring it, or saying "the only reason we're involved is oil" is naïve. The cat's been out of the bag over there since before you and I were born, and we're not going to get it back in by just completely ignoring that part of the world. The damage is done, and we have to help mitigate it IMO. You and I both know we would've been better off never getting involved or allowing people like the Bush family to dictate ME policy, but there's no turning back on that now.
What, exactly, did you want Obama to do about the annexation of the Crimea that he didn't do? I ask this because I was vocally critical of Obama during that time as well, but when I sat back and thought about it, there were no appealing, realistic options on the table that weren't used. We applied economic pressure via freezing assets and sanctions and we denounced it. What else should Obama have done?
Obama doctrine ... Obama told Jeff: “The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-NATO country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do.” You and I may not like that statement, but it's factually and historically correct unless you are willing to go to war with Russia. President Bush apparently thought the exact same thing when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.
Obama put in sanctions along with the EU. Closed a couple spy houses and kicked out some diplomats.
So Obama couldn't have stopped it and wasn't responsible but he still didn't do enough to stop it?........that sounds like your position. Makes sense.
How about about going back further than a CIA backed coup in Iran. Look at British and French efforts and Empire lust in WWI and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of that war if you really want to get to the start of all the ME problems.
I’m not concerned with the British and French ... I’m concerned with American intervention that wastes our money that could be spent on the people that pay it.
One of the propaganda lies you hear is “we want to spread democracy.” Bullshit... Iran had a democracy, wanted to spread it across the Middle East... but then If you do that it’s not easy to have control and get the oil... so you can’t have that...
But the breakup of the Ottoman Empire is what lead to this and got us involved in the first place as we needed the resources. Now we don’t, but again, Pandora’s box is open and it doesn’t go shut by us just leaving either.
Okay, so you have no desire to actually try and understand how we came to be holding the tiger by the tail?
yup, politicians/government is the solution.
not individuals and the marketplace
we are currenlty in one.
countless hours and expenditures have already gone toward the prep and implementation of tariffs/taxes, resourcing, processing etc
trump is great at this, as we saw in the campaign.
he plays the hero/heel card reminiscent of his wwe wrestling days, thanks to mentor vince mcmahon
At issue is the Canadian supply-management system, which covers dairy, eggs, and poultry products. The system sets domestic production quotas and keeps prices stable, thereby guaranteeing farmers a steady income. And, in order to keep the supply stable, Canada blocks imports from other countries, including the U.S., by imposing tariffs—up to 270 percent ondairy products. About 80 percent of Canada’s dairy farmers are concentrated in two provinces, Quebec and Ontario, both of which are crucial to Trudeau’s political fortunes. (The system is by no means universally popular in Canada.)
Do I need to understand anything farther back than 1953 to know we had no business overthrowing mosadek? No. WE ARE the reason for the instability in the Middle East... we caused it and continue to
I heard anywhere from 270% to 290% from several sources. 290% was just the number that stuck in my mind. If that's not right, what is it and give me your source?
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I'm not arguing what the percentage is but that all dairy exports are subject to the tariffs. The tariffs don't kick in until a quota is reached. It's not all dairy.
We actually have a dairy surplus with Canada, more than 500 million in 2016.
We have started to separate mild into its component parts that are easier to use to make cheese and yogurt. It's called unfiltered milk and wasn't even created when the latest agreement was done.
The point is that Trump is oversimplifying and misleading us on this topic. The dairy lobby in Canada is strong and the government tried to protect it. We do the same thing, look at the sugar lobby in this country and how it is protected.
Looks to me like Trump was looking for the largest tariff he could find and decided to use it to start a fight with arguably our strongest ally. Wisconsin being a dairy state probably doesn't hurt.
Ever hear of George Soros? I am sure you have. Neither party has a lock on not being influenced by $$$, Personally, I don't care for many in either. Both corrupt as all get out to $$$.
I'm just happy to see him try to level the playing field on trade. It seems we are running a serious deficit with too many of our trading partners. Personally, I'd like to see all tariffs disappear, but that will never happen. Every nation wants to protect one industry or another.
If he can get tariffs reduced on some of our products, it will help us a lot. More trade means more jobs means more disposable income means better economy means more tax revenue, which will hopefully allow us to reduce the national debt. Of course that would require some level of fiscal responsibility on the part of our politicians and we know that won't happen.
I have NO problem with correcting unfair trade. I have a problem with the president in that he seems to believe the ONLY way to solve these kinds of problems is to 1) attack the other party publicly, sometimes personally. 2) Mislead and or outright lie about the facts. 3) Back the other party into to a corner such that any capitulation makes them look weak.4) Create the turmoil then acts like he is the only one that can solve it.
You seem like an intelligent guy......please explain to me how people in your social life or work environment or family respond to that kind of behavior. Does it make ANYONE you know want to go along with what the other person is asking for......I should say demanding? Who solves disputes that way EVERY single time? Is that the art of the deal?
No. True problem solvers change their approach to fit the situation or the other party. They don't demean the opposition. They discuss sensitive issues behind the scenes.
If your coworker makes fun of you and calls you names in public, tells lies about you............and then demands you exchange your corner office for his cubicle, are you likely to it? Fvck no.
He does it because that's all he's ever had to do in the business world. He does it because his supporters like that he's a fighter and he plays to them. He does it because it's the only way he knows how to do it.........and it makes him feel superior.
I also have bigger problems with the ramifications of these acts. Keep watching.
trying is good. but not great when the implementation is taxes passed onto consumers, and reliance on government intervention counter to capitalism.
to be expected when we are that much wealthier of a nation.
e.g. u.s. gdp per capita is nearly 8 times that of china.
lets say this happens.
how will we still compete with chinese product pricing? they will still hold huge advantages in labor costs, production/environmental restrictions, worker population/production capacity, etc etc
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