Sampson James

[Roeder]

Look, our class is better than your class RIGHT NOW...I'm not surprised that you wouldn't trade your class, I wouldn't trade our class for yours, it's mutual.

Pay attention to the star ranking, IU is clearly ahead of Purdue. We stand at 3.06 on the star grade, you guys are in the 2.9 range.

I don't look much at star grades and look at offers. Here are the 10 best offer lists from each school. Both stack up pretty well. I personally favor Purdue's, but both look like strong classes at the top.

Purdue:
Player 1: Clemson, Alabama, OSU, USC
Player 2: Michigan, ND, Iowa, Mizz, Syracuse
Player 3: Alabama, PSU, Florida, Tenn, WVU
Player 4: UK, Syracuse, Cincinnati, Pitt
Player 5: Georgia, Tenn, UK, Pitt, Cincinnati
Player 6: ND, Texas AM, TT, Miss, Baylor
Player 7: Georgia, OSU, PSU, Tenn, Miss
Player 8: Virginia Tech, NC State, Pitt
Player 9: Michigan, UK, Vandy, BC
Player 10: Colorado, Iowa State, Minny

IU:
Player 1: Georgia, OSU, PSU, Florida St
Player 2: MSU, Iowa, Arkansas, Neb, BC
Player 3: MSU, Miss St, Miss, Nebraska, UK
Player 4: Iowa, Syracuse, Minn, Cincinnati
Player 5: Florida, Michigan, Miss, NC State
Player 6: Michigan, MSU, UNC, Iowa St
Player 7: Baylor, Iowa, BC, Syracuse
Player 8: Arizona, ASU, WVU, BC, Nebraska
Player 9: Arkansas, UK
Player 10: Nebraska, South Florida, UCF

 

[BTBall]

I don't look much at star grades and look at offers. Here are the 10 best offer lists from each school. Both stack up pretty well. I personally favor Purdue's, but both look like strong classes at the top.

Purdue:
Player 1: Clemson, Alabama, OSU, USC
Player 2: Michigan, ND, Iowa, Mizz, Syracuse
Player 3: Alabama, PSU, Florida, Tenn, WVU
Player 4: UK, Syracuse, Cincinnati, Pitt
Player 5: Georgia, Tenn, UK, Pitt, Cincinnati
Player 6: ND, Texas AM, TT, Miss, Baylor
Player 7: Georgia, OSU, PSU, Tenn, Miss
Player 8: Virginia Tech, NC State, Pitt
Player 9: Michigan, UK, Vandy, BC
Player 10: Colorado, Iowa State, Minny

IU:
Player 1: Georgia, OSU, PSU, Florida St
Player 2: MSU, Iowa, Arkansas, Neb, BC
Player 3: MSU, Miss St, Miss, Nebraska, UK
Player 4: Iowa, Syracuse, Minn, Cincinnati
Player 5: Florida, Michigan, Miss, NC State
Player 6: Michigan, MSU, UNC, Iowa St
Player 7: Baylor, Iowa, BC, Syracuse
Player 8: Arizona, ASU, WVU, BC, Nebraska
Player 9: Arkansas, UK
Player 10: Nebraska, South Florida, UCF

As Roder's post illustrates, it is actually possible that both teams are putting together good classes for next year.

As an IU fan, I am not deluding myself to think that Brohm is a flash in the pan or that he won't continue to elevate the program. He was a great hire and should he stay for the long term, may well challenge for B1G West titles.

I also think that Tom Allen was a terrific hire who is continuing the steady elevation of IU's program. It wasn't too long ago that most of IU's recruiting wins were over MAC schools. Now when I look at IU's roster, I see more talent and depth than we've had in more than two decades.

The biggest difference I see between the two programs right now, apart form the difference in historical success, is that Purdue has far more opportunity for upward mobility playing in the B1G West. The challenge of actually contending in the B1G East is enormously difficult in an era with Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin and Dantonio all in place.

 

[boiler1987]

As Roder's post illustrates, it is actually possible that both teams are putting together good classes for next year.

As an IU fan, I am not deluding myself to think that Brohm is a flash in the pan or that he won't continue to elevate the program. He was a great hire and should he stay for the long term, may well challenge for B1G West titles.

I also think that Tom Allen was a terrific hire who is continuing the steady elevation of IU's program. It wasn't too long ago that most of IU's recruiting wins were over MAC schools. Now when I look at IU's roster, I see more talent and depth than we've had in more than two decades.

The biggest difference I see between the two programs right now, apart form the difference in historical success, is that Purdue has far more opportunity for upward mobility playing in the B1G West. The challenge of actually contending in the B1G East is enormously difficult in an era with Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin and Dantonio all in place.

agree re the division differences. But Wilson landed some pretty solid classes for you guys. Purdue had 4 years in a row of the worst class in the conference and Purdue's roster was filled with non-B1G level guys. Brohm had to completely overhaul the roster.

 

[FirstDownB]

I don't look much at star grades and look at offers. Here are the 10 best offer lists from each school. Both stack up pretty well. I personally favor Purdue's, but both look like strong classes at the top.

Purdue:
Player 1: Clemson, Alabama, OSU, USC
Player 2: Michigan, ND, Iowa, Mizz, Syracuse
Player 3: Alabama, PSU, Florida, Tenn, WVU
Player 4: UK, Syracuse, Cincinnati, Pitt
Player 5: Georgia, Tenn, UK, Pitt, Cincinnati
Player 6: ND, Texas AM, TT, Miss, Baylor
Player 7: Georgia, OSU, PSU, Tenn, Miss
Player 8: Virginia Tech, NC State, Pitt
Player 9: Michigan, UK, Vandy, BC
Player 10: Colorado, Iowa State, Minny

IU:
Player 1: Georgia, OSU, PSU, Florida St
Player 2: MSU, Iowa, Arkansas, Neb, BC
Player 3: MSU, Miss St, Miss, Nebraska, UK
Player 4: Iowa, Syracuse, Minn, Cincinnati
Player 5: Florida, Michigan, Miss, NC State
Player 6: Michigan, MSU, UNC, Iowa St
Player 7: Baylor, Iowa, BC, Syracuse
Player 8: Arizona, ASU, WVU, BC, Nebraska
Player 9: Arkansas, UK
Player 10: Nebraska, South Florida, UCF

The problem with looking at offers is they are unverifiable until a committment is accepted. See Sheffield and ND. No one would have known that offer wasn't commitable if it wasn't made public. I would assume the above lists contain quite a few contingent or non-commitable offers for both Purdue and IU.

But flaws in the rating system are well documented also, often influenced by reports of who is recruiting who and skewed toward early bloomers. At the end of the day, both ratings and offers are just an approximation of the quality of your recruiting class.

 

[FirstDownB]

The biggest difference I see between the two programs right now, apart form the difference in historical success, is that Purdue has far more opportunity for upward mobility playing in the B1G West. The challenge of actually contending in the B1G East is enormously difficult in an era with Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin and Dantonio all in place.

The other big difference is Brohm has given Purdue football a national identity almost overnight. He is widely recognized an offensive guru. There is a good probability of bringing in more high end skill recruits like Rondale who want to play in his system because it is fun and appealing, and there are a lot of balls to go around. Yeah, he might miss out on some running backs, but more than make up for it in receivers and quarterbacks. Tom Allen is probably a good fundamental coach, but the average Big Ten football fan couldn't tell you anything about him or his style of football. Honestly, he reminds me of Danny Hope. That's not a slight. Danny was a solid coach and made 2 bowl games in 4 years. Given a proper budget he probably would have done even better. But he was not a high ceiling, 10 win potential coach like Brohm is.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

The problem with looking at offers is they are unverifiable until a committment is accepted. See Sheffield and ND. No one would have known that offer wasn't commitable if it wasn't made public. I would assume the above lists contain quite a few contingent or non-commitable offers for both Purdue and IU.

But flaws in the rating system are well documented also, often influenced by reports of who is recruiting who and skewed toward early bloomers. At the end of the day, both ratings and offers are just an approximation of the quality of your recruiting class.

That’s a good point but I tend to agree it is still more meaningful than the stars. I have seen a lot of 3 star players with only MAC offers that turned out to be duds, turned out the scouts did not see the same thing as the actual team scouts did. Then you see some 3 stars that had crazy good offers (Rondale Moore) that turned out to be stars. I use theee stars as an example since most of IU and PU commits are 3.

 

[wakeman26]

The other big difference is Brohm has given Purdue football a national identity almost overnight. He is widely recognized an offensive guru. There is a good probability of bringing in more high end skill recruits like Rondale who want to play in his system because it is fun and appealing, and there are a lot of balls to go around. Yeah, he might miss out on some running backs, but more than make up for it in receivers and quarterbacks. Tom Allen is probably a good fundamental coach, but the average Big Ten football fan couldn't tell you anything about him or his style of football. Honestly, he reminds me of Danny Hope. That's not a slight. Danny was a solid coach and made 2 bowl games in 4 years. Given a proper budget he probably would have done even better. But he was not a high ceiling, 10 win potential coach like Brohm is.

I know this board likes to call him a glorified HS coach, but Tom Allen is pretty widely recognized as a defensive guru and the evidence supports that.

He took essentially the same defense that finished ranked 108th in S&P+ defense in 2015 and molded them into a unit that finished 31st the following year, and 26th last year. They are sitting at 38th right now despite losing 8/11 starters from last year. And the recruiting has followed with a number of high-end guys buying into his ability as a defensive coach (which is why they have been significantly better recruiting that side of the ball than Debord's side but I digress).

 

[FirstDownB]

That’s a good point but I tend to agree it is still more meaningful than the stars. I have seen a lot of 3 star players with only MAC offers that turned out to be duds, turned out the scouts did not see the same thing as the actual team scouts did. Then you see some 3 stars that had crazy good offers (Rondale Moore) that turned out to be stars. I use theee stars as an example since most of IU and PU commits are 3.

And I will agree that, on the whole, offer lists are a fair basis of comparing classes, as every recruit is not claiming they have an offer from OSU or Alabama. On an individual commit basis it can be more deceiving, but we can assume that deception carries out roughly equal across the board.

 

[Purdue85]

I know this board likes to call him a glorified HS coach, but Tom Allen is pretty widely recognized as a defensive guru and the evidence supports that.

He took essentially the same defense that finished ranked 108th in S&P+ defense in 2015 and molded them into a unit that finished 31st the following year, and 26th last year. They are sitting at 38th right now despite losing 8/11 starters from last year. And the recruiting has followed with a number of high-end guys buying into his ability as a defensive coach (which is why they have been significantly better recruiting that side of the ball than Debord's side but I digress).

Don't be offended, but, I don't think anybody on this site is all that interested in a Tom Allen PR campaign.

 

[boiler1987]

I know this board likes to call him a glorified HS coach, but Tom Allen is pretty widely recognized as a defensive guru and the evidence supports that.

He took essentially the same defense that finished ranked 108th in S&P+ defense in 2015 and molded them into a unit that finished 31st the following year, and 26th last year. They are sitting at 38th right now despite losing 8/11 starters from last year. And the recruiting has followed with a number of high-end guys buying into his ability as a defensive coach (which is why they have been significantly better recruiting that side of the ball than Debord's side but I digress).

Where are those S+P stats? Not seeing the information when I searched their website.

 

[wakeman26]

Where are those S+P stats? Not seeing the information when I searched their website.

I use football outsiders- https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa

Just update the dropdowns at the top to get different years or to drill into the off/def/st rankings (2018 drill-downs aren't available until after week 7 though)

 

[secondasky]

If anything, I think he’d move down. He hasn’t had a great senior year.

I was at the game tonight and was told that he has been dealing with an injury almost the whole season and playing on a part time basis. I don't think he even played tonight against Noblesville.

 

[boiler1987]

I was at the game tonight and was told that he has been dealing with an injury almost the whole season and playing on a part time basis. I don't think he even played tonight against Noblesville.

Wouldn’t think he’d need to since it’s Noblesville haha.

 

[FirstDownB]

I know this board likes to call him a glorified HS coach, but Tom Allen is pretty widely recognized as a defensive guru and the evidence supports that.

He took essentially the same defense that finished ranked 108th in S&P+ defense in 2015 and molded them into a unit that finished 31st the following year, and 26th last year. They are sitting at 38th right now despite losing 8/11 starters from last year. And the recruiting has followed with a number of high-end guys buying into his ability as a defensive coach (which is why they have been significantly better recruiting that side of the ball than Debord's side but I digress).

Please tell us more about this guru of yours..

 

[meenie]

Hope you like never playing in a bowl. At least he can be around his family during the holidays

 

[Poprudy]

Allen isn't a bad defensive guy. Brohm is a great offensive mind and puts the right people in positions to be very successful. Difference is great coach vs decent defensive coach.

 

[boilerpt]

As Roder's post illustrates, it is actually possible that both teams are putting together good classes for next year.

As an IU fan, I am not deluding myself to think that Brohm is a flash in the pan or that he won't continue to elevate the program. He was a great hire and should he stay for the long term, may well challenge for B1G West titles.

I also think that Tom Allen was a terrific hire who is continuing the steady elevation of IU's program. It wasn't too long ago that most of IU's recruiting wins were over MAC schools. Now when I look at IU's roster, I see more talent and depth than we've had in more than two decades.

The biggest difference I see between the two programs right now, apart form the difference in historical success, is that Purdue has far more opportunity for upward mobility playing in the B1G West. The challenge of actually contending in the B1G East is enormously difficult in an era with Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin and Dantonio all in place.

“If only IU were in the West, things would be different...” This mantra is getting old. MN is the youngest team in the country and arguably the worst team in the West. This game was a blowout until Minny imploded.

 

[Purdue85]

“If only IU were in the West, things would be different...” This mantra is getting old. MN is the youngest team in the country and arguably the worst team in the West. This game was a blowout until Minny imploded.

We have 3 games against B1G East teams. So far we're 1-0, having thrashed the #2 team in the country. Today, we get the 2nd B1G East team (MSU), then we close out the season with the 3rd B1G East team (IU).

I'd say we have a decent chance of a winning at least 1 of the remaining 2 games. Right now, IU is 0-2 against B1G West, and is staring down the very real possibility of going 0-3.

Too many IU fans have deluded themselves that they're a "player," and Purdue is some low-level program. I remember some IU dude from a few years back who thought the IU football program was a "rocket ship."

 

[boilermaker75]

Too many IU fans have deluded themselves that they're a "player," and Purdue is some low-level program. I remember some IU dude from a few years back who thought the IU football program was a "rocket ship."

 

[SIBoiler2]

After watching another IU defensive collapse last night I think I'll stick with Nick Holt even if he's not the D guru that the great Tom Allen is purported to be.

 

[Wolegib]

Sorry James. We wanted you. You had an opportunity to catch a ride on our train, but now the train is full and has left the station. Your loss.

 

[IndySouthsider]

Worst part about are IU losing last night is that PJ Fleck got to win

Sorry James. We wanted you. You had an opportunity to catch a ride on our train, but now the train is full and has left the station. Your loss.

If he called CJB to commit, CJB would make it happen.

 

[StickPurdue]

Worst part about are IU losing last night is that PJ Fleck got to win



If he called CJB to commit, CJB would make it happen.

I doubt this. Had he decomitted from OSU and called? Absolutely. But the decomit and immediate commitment to IU ended that. Purdue has King and Hewitt. Not to mention they are still on Robinson and it’s possible Rice could switch to RB (not sure they do this, but he has all the tools to be very good as an RB. The size, speed, strength to run and block and the hands to catch the ball out of the backfield). Brohm wants guys that are committed. Being the third team he committed to shows something is up and I don’t think Brohm would bail on his guys for that. Who knows, James has a lot of potential. But Brohm has success going on more that rankings and unless he sees that willingness to buy in and work his tail off, Brohm would (should) probably stick with what he has.

If Purdue misses on Robinson, they may look for a third RB. If they do, imo it should be Elliott out of Warren Central (Bell’s teammate). Otherwise, wait to see what you can get in the ‘20 class. But they pay Brohm the big bucks for a reason, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if I did just stay at a Holiday Inn.

 

[IndySouthsider]

I doubt this. Had he decomitted from OSU and called? Absolutely. But the decomit and immediate commitment to IU ended that. Purdue has King and Hewitt. Not to mention they are still on Robinson and it’s possible Rice could switch to RB (not sure they do this, but he has all the tools to be very good as an RB. The size, speed, strength to run and block and the hands to catch the ball out of the backfield). Brohm wants guys that are committed. Being the third team he committed to shows something is up and I don’t think Brohm would bail on his guys for that. Who knows, James has a lot of potential. But Brohm has success going on more that rankings and unless he sees that willingness to buy in and work his tail off, Brohm would (should) probably stick with what he has.

If Purdue misses on Robinson, they may look for a third RB. If they do, imo it should be Elliott out of Warren Central (Bell’s teammate). Otherwise, wait to see what you can get in the ‘20 class. But they pay Brohm the big bucks for a reason, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if I did just stay at a Holiday Inn.

Hey I don’t much care about Sampson, I just don’t believe a coach would turn down a top 20 player at his position. I also could see why Sampson may want to play at IU. The feature backs.

 

[Purdue85]

Worst part about are IU losing last night is that PJ Fleck got to win



If he called CJB to commit, CJB would make it happen.

Highly unlikely. That ship sailed. The only reason would be to make inroads in big schools in Indy, and that's already happening.

Edit: Instead of "highly unlikely," I just don't think it would be a big deal to Brohm. He already has his RBs recruited. Yes, it would be good to get more recruits & fans from central IN, but I don't think he's going to be the impact player (top 20 nationally) he's projected to be.