Ryan v Ryne

[Bluegrass Boiler]

I've seen a lot of discussion regarding red-shirting Ryan Cline. A lot of it refers to Ryne Smith and his delayed development as a shooter & defender leading CMP to publicly state he wished he'd reshirted him as a freshman.

For his first two years we counted Ryne's pump fakes each game instead of shots & points scored. Many games he could never even get a shot off at all. And for three years he struggled with "D" until he became serviceable as a senior. I've watched Ryan Cline as the Kentucky All-Stars focused all their attention on him (double-teamed with faster and/or bigger players--all to no avail), and IMO his shooting skills and quick release are more like Ryne as a senior and have practically no comparison to Ryne as a freshman or sophomore. Additionally he is able to dribble/drive the ball to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself--something we rarely, if ever, saw from the "catch & shoot" style of Ryne Smith. Defensively, no doubt he has a lot to learn, but he's already at Ryne's senior playing weight and is two inches taller, so he can present a bigger perimeter threat physically once he gets comfortable with CMPs defensive philosophies..

I am looking forward to seeing him play in the exhibition games. With the tremendous potential this team has this year, and the certainty that great perimeter shooting will be a crucial make-or-break component of its success, I can't imagine shirting Cline. You can never have too many great shooters.

 

[Heller]

Part of Ryne's problem was a lack of confidence. Once Painter finally told him he wasn't playing for his defense and to shoot the ball, Smith became a different player and shooter.

 

[Bluegrass Boiler]

Part of Ryne's problem was a lack of confidence. Once Painter finally told him he wasn't playing for his defense and to shoot the ball, Smith became a different player and shooter.

No doubt that when Ryne gained confidence, especially as a senior, it was a joy watching him catch & shoot, because everyone just knew it had a good chance of going in. But that's the point here...Ryan already has a lot of confidence in his shot/shooting, has a quick release and two more inches on Ryne to help get that shot off when guarded. I think the only thing that would keep Ryan Cline from equaling a senior Ryne Smith right now is playing time. And those ahead of him now are just better all-around guards than Ryne was even as a senior. I wouldn't play Cline ahead of Mathias, Stephens or Davis at the 2 spot right now, but there will be games this year when we'd wish we had him on the bench if he's red-shirted.

 

[Dryfly88]

No doubt that when Ryne gained confidence, especially as a senior, it was a joy watching him catch & shoot, because everyone just knew it had a good chance of going in. But that's the point here...Ryan already has a lot of confidence in his shot/shooting, has a quick release and two more inches on Ryne to help get that shot off when guarded. I think the only thing that would keep Ryan Cline from equaling a senior Ryne Smith right now is playing time. And those ahead of him now are just better all-around guards than Ryne was even as a senior. I wouldn't play Cline ahead of Mathias, Stephens or Davis at the 2 spot right now, but there will be games this year when we'd wish we had him on the bench if he's red-shirted.

Good post. I especially like the last part. This team has a chance to be very good. The one question I have is will we be able to shoot when teams dare us to do so. If you are an opposing coach preparing for PU especially early in this coming season you are without a doubt working on some zone defenses. "Let's find out if they can beat us from the outside". I certainly hope that KS and DM do a better job this year, but just in case they don't I would want a third option.

Think back to last year and just remember how many times you were frustrated because we couldn't hit an open 3. It wasn't just the Cincy game. There were many times that we could have put people away or won if we would have just hit an open shot or two. With CS in there our outside shooters are going to get even more looks. I for one, want as many shooters available as possible.

There is a chance that 4 years from now I will say, "man I wish we had one more year of Cline" but I don't want to wager that against the right here and now.

 

[FleeTheScene]

I would love to see Cline play and succeed but I just can't imagine where the minutes come from. If cline can play immediately we are going to have 4 guys competing for minutes at the two and maybe a couple minutes at the 3 to spell Vince when he needs a break or when he has to play the four when Swanigan sits. Neubert said on the podcast that all signs are pointing to Cline not redshirting so it will be interesting to see how the rotation shakes out.

 

[BBG]

I would love to see Cline play and succeed but I just can't imagine where the minutes come from. If cline can play immediately we are going to have 4 guys competing for minutes at the two and maybe a couple minutes at the 3 to spell Vince when he needs a break or when he has to play the four when Swanigan sits. Neubert said on the podcast that all signs are pointing to Cline not redshirting so it will be interesting to see how the rotation shakes out.

This. There will be games where Cline would help I have no doubt, but to me I think we get more from him shirting than not. There just isn't enough minutes to go around.

 

[Bluegrass Boiler]

This. There will be games where Cline would help I have no doubt, but to me I think we get more from him shirting than not. There just isn't enough minutes to go around.

Agreed, Ryan's minutes will be spotty at best, barring any unexpected injuries or suspensions. But all we need is one or two "Cincy-like" games at critical junctures for seeding and/or in the Big Dance, and four years from now will not seem so important anymore.

 

[spradecki]

Think back to last year and just remember how many times you were frustrated because we couldn't hit an open 3. It wasn't just the Cincy game. There were many times that we could have put people away or won if we would have just hit an open shot or two. With CS in there our outside shooters are going to get even more looks. I for one, want as many shooters available as possible.



i was frustrated most of last year that they wouldn't even shoot an open 3. hope i don't spend another season shouting at the TV shoot the dang ball. they will try to force it into the middle and pass up alot of open shots i'm afraid. but they probably would be wrong if they didn't force it into their strength.. should be and interesting and fun season

 

[Dryfly88]

Agreed, Ryan's minutes will be spotty at best, barring any unexpected injuries or suspensions. But all we need is one or two "Cincy-like" games at critical junctures for seeding and/or in the Big Dance, and four years from now will not seem so important anymore.

This was exactly my point. I'll just give 2 quick examples: North Florida and Gardner-Webb. 2 Huge losses on our resume last year. We lost to NF by 3 points and shot 4/19 from 3. GW we lost by 5 points and shot 4/15 from 3. Give me another shooter in both those games and I like our chances. There are other examples in B10 play also and of course the Cincy game. I can't imagine any of us would want a 5th year from Cline instead of playing in those games.

There are no guarantees either for this year or 5 years from now. But I would much rather have all the weapons possible for this coming season rather than bank on wanting Cline 5 years from now. I prefer to think positive and say that between now and 5 years Painter will have recruited other shooters and having Cline for year 5 is not a big deal. Outside shooting could very well determine if this a special year or just a good one. Let's give ourselves the very best chance to be special.

 

[Dryfly88]

Think back to last year and just remember how many times you were frustrated because we couldn't hit an open 3. It wasn't just the Cincy game. There were many times that we could have put people away or won if we would have just hit an open shot or two. With CS in there our outside shooters are going to get even more looks. I for one, want as many shooters available as possible.



i was frustrated most of last year that they wouldn't even shoot an open 3. hope i don't spend another season shouting at the TV shoot the dang ball. they will try to force it into the middle and pass up alot of open shots i'm afraid. but they probably would be wrong if they didn't force it into their strength.. should be and interesting and fun season

I would disagree and say that we shot plenty of 3's we just didn't make enough of them. We attempted more 3's than our opponents and more of our overall attempts were 3's than our opponents. We finished 10th in the B10 in 3 point %. It cost us games and we need to fix that this year. Free throws and 3 pt % are my two biggest concerns this year. Cline can help with both of them even if only in select games.

 

[spradecki]

I would disagree and say that we shot plenty of 3's we just didn't make enough of them. We attempted more 3's than our opponents and more of our overall attempts were 3's than our opponents. We finished 10th in the B10 in 3 point %. It cost us games and we need to fix that this year. Free throws and 3 pt % are my two biggest concerns this year. Cline can help with both of them even if only in select games.

they tried to force it inside way to much last season. key word is force

edit shots passed up wern't always threes. they passed to many open looks from closer. just my opinion

 

[paintball1979]

This forum seems to be pretty divided on Cline red shirting. I think it is kind of premature to label him as a candidate because of playing time issues. Do we really know his value yet? Why RS a guy that maybe might be a more product contributor. So far the guys he might be competing with for minutes have not shown to be consistent. If the coach believes after a couple x games and more practice samples that he won't make a significant impact, then that's a different story.

 

[FleeTheScene]

This forum seems to be pretty divided on Cline red shirting. I think it is kind of premature to label him as a candidate because of playing time issues. Do we really know his value yet? Why RS a guy that maybe might be a more product contributor. So far the guys he might be competing with for minutes have not shown to be consistent. If the coach believes after a couple x games and more practice samples that he won't make a significant impact, then that's a different story.

Well the thing here is there will be playing time issues for someone. A freshman is going to have a real adjustment to make in this league compared to high school, no matter how good a shooter they are. If you remember back a year ago, people were calling Mathias a savior for his shooting, and Kendall the year before that. If cline is as good as people think he can be, he'll push someone else to an end of the bench role, there's just not enough minutes to go around. I think for that reason people are saying to redshirt Cline since he's an unknown commodity that still has to learn to play at the college level in the most physical conference in the country.

That being said, it looks like the coaching staff is really thinking about keeping him on the active roster so Painter must feel like he can get some good use out of him. We just have to see how everything plays out.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Well the thing here is there will be playing time issues for someone. A freshman is going to have a real adjustment to make in this league compared to high school, no matter how good a shooter they are. If you remember back a year ago, people were calling Mathias a savior for his shooting, and Kendall the year before that. If cline is as good as people think he can be, he'll push someone else to an end of the bench role, there's just not enough minutes to go around. I think for that reason people are saying to redshirt Cline since he's an unknown commodity that still has to learn to play at the college level in the most physical conference in the country.

That being said, it looks like the coaching staff is really thinking about keeping him on the active roster so Painter must feel like he can get some good use out of him. We just have to see how everything plays out.

Agreed. Cline may be great, he may make a difference for us. But it seems that some assume he's going to shoot well from distance. That's certainly not a given for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[paintball1979]

Well CS is a Freshman, he seems to be making the adjustment. Many thought Cline should have been a Mac. If one guy can, why assume another talent can't. All I'm saying is how do we know at this point.

 

[QuadBoiler2014]

Cline should not RS.

Stephens is a very very talented 3 shooter and player, but has thus far not proven he can be that reliable to give high % shooting most nights.

Mathias has not been having his 3 falling so far in both the roster scrimmage and with Dayton. If his health issues persist and he cannot be counted on heavily to shoot well, we need Cline.

Cline will not play huge minutes. If he averages 12-15 min a night he will be lucky, but we need him.

With all the size this team team has, we need players to space the floor out. Both KS and DM are hot and cold shooters so far in their careers. I don't feel comfortable relying heavily on just KS and DM to give us some good 3 pt looks.

I'm sure there will be games Cline plays 5 min, and others he plays 20. We need him this year IMO.

 

[FleeTheScene]

Well CS is a Freshman, he seems to be making the adjustment. Many thought Cline should have been a Mac. If one guy can, why assume another talent can't. All I'm saying is how do we know at this point.

I don't really think this is a comparison honestly. Swanigan was a consensus top 15 guy coming out of high school. Certainly there are players every year that have extreme talent and are ready right away, it's how teams like Kentucky and Duke compete every year, but Cline was barely ranked in the top 100.

It is true that we don't know what Cline is capable of yet, but that isn't what Painter is looking at. I think the overwhelming assumption is that he is going to be great for Purdue. The only question is, do we play him now in what we have to logically project to be a limited role, or save him for the future when we know he can have a much larger impact. It's a tough question, right now it's tough to look down the road 4 years and see us having a better opportunity than right now to be able to make a run at a championship. I imagine Painter and his staff will probably wrestle with this right up until the first game. Whether it's this year or next, I'm really looking forward to watching Cline play.

 

[CRBoiler]

A lot things need to go right this season if we are to see our hopes turn into reality, and one thing we need is reliable 3-point shooting that will create the spacing our big guys need.

Stephens last year hit 20% or worse from 3 in 13 games last year, and he was our best 3-point shooter. Seven of the team's 13 losses were among those off nights Stephens had. I know KS had injury trouble, and I don't blame him... I am simply pointing out some facts.

Koenig from Wisconsin only had 8 games at 20% or less, and Nickens from Maryland only had 6 games like that. I could look for more examples, but that seems like enough.

My point is... Much better reliability from 3 than we had last year is not only possible; it is needed to compete for the league championship. I like having 3 guys trying to be that reliable 3-point shooter. I fully expect one or more of them to prove it on the floor. And if one of them has an injury that will impact performance, then next man up. We have the depth this year; let's use it to win.

 

[vilehoopster]

All you guys talking about Cline not redshirting, I have a question. Where is he going to play? I admit that I have never seen him play except what little videos are on here, but really, where is he going to play?

He's not going to get any minutes at 3, none. Edwards is starting there; and if he's on the bench or playing 4-man, R. Davis will be playing there. If not, Stephens will be the 3rd option at 3-man. Stephens is 6' 7" and I don't think Cline has the skill-set to take minutes from Stephens at 3-man.There is zero room for Cline to play at three.

Okay, he can play at two, now it's possible that he could play there, but once again, I assume that R. Davis will be our starting 2-man and then he will move to 3 when needed. But Davis, who along with Hammons, is our co-MVP, is going to be on the court a lot, a lot for Purdue. We have to assume (I know what happens when you assume, but still...) that Stephens and Mathias will get a lot of minutes as the back-up to Davis. I know some people see Mathias playing 1-man, but Painter has given no indication that this is going to be the case. So it looks like Davis, Stephens(also playing some 3) and Mathias will all share the 2-man position. Where will Cline get minutes?

Now, there is the possibility that injury or academics could open up a spot for Cline, but let's pray this doesn't happen.

Now it's possible that Cline is just plain better and more consistent than Mathias or Stephens, and both were very inconsistent last season, Stephens especially. But Mathias is now a sophomore and Stephens is an junior and injury-free, so I would have to say that Cline would have to be really, really special to move ahead of either Dakota or Kendall.

So do you keep him around and not redshirt him in case something goes really bad (injury or no one can possible hit an outside shot) and waste a year of playing time for what could very well be, especially during the Big Ten season, less than five minutes a game playing time per game. Clines seems to be special, but there are too many with experience playing ahead of him for Cline to get quality minutes. If he is so special, do you want to waste a year of "special" where he might only get five minutes a game? Cline only gets four years. Why waste one year of that when he will struggle to get meaningful minutes on the court? Or do you look at things logically, and redshirt him so that next year when Davis graduates and around 30 a game opens up, he will be a year stronger and ready to be a real contribution? I think he should redshirt.

 

[PU pit bull]

Y'all are thinking way too much IMO. Every thread lately is a break down of the X's and O's, which I get, but damn CMP has it covered. Like paintball said, no one really knows the value of said player(s) yet. Let's just let the chips fall and get ready for the bloodshed that follows. Strap yourself in, should be a helluva ride.

 

[CRBoiler]

Bottom line for me: the coaches have indicated they are surprised about how well Cline is doing at this stage. It is possible, from what they've said, to think Cline has a chance to be the best 3-pt shooter of the bunch. If Cline can hold down his position defensively and he can shoot 45+% from 3 & make good decisions, then everybody will want him to play because it will help the team win. I'm not saying he's THAT good, but it seems like the coaches think he has the potential to be. It seems like a bet they might make, given we are at a high water mark with our bigs.

 

[FleeTheScene]

Y'all are thinking way too much IMO. Every thread lately is a break down of the X's and O's, which I get, but damn CMP has it covered. Like paintball said, no one really knows the value of said player(s) yet. Let's just let the chips fall and get ready for the bloodshed that follows. Strap yourself in, should be a helluva ride.

To be fair I just love the discussion and hearing what other fans think about the different subjects. I live out of state now so I don't have any other outlet to talk Purdue basketball. Of course no one has all the inside info and knows what Painter does but for me it is fun to discuss and see other peoples points of view.

 

[PU pit bull]

To be fair I just love the discussion and hearing what other fans think about the different subjects. I live out of state now so I don't have any other outlet to talk Purdue basketball. Of course no one has all the inside info and knows what Painter does but for me it is fun to discuss and see other peoples points of view.

I understand....

 

[spradecki]

BTFU

i'm ready

 

[Dryfly88]

All you guys talking about Cline not redshirting, I have a question. Where is he going to play? I admit that I have never seen him play except what little videos are on here, but really, where is he going to play?

He's not going to get any minutes at 3, none. Edwards is starting there; and if he's on the bench or playing 4-man, R. Davis will be playing there. If not, Stephens will be the 3rd option at 3-man. Stephens is 6' 7" and I don't think Cline has the skill-set to take minutes from Stephens at 3-man.There is zero room for Cline to play at three.

Okay, he can play at two, now it's possible that he could play there, but once again, I assume that R. Davis will be our starting 2-man and then he will move to 3 when needed. But Davis, who along with Hammons, is our co-MVP, is going to be on the court a lot, a lot for Purdue. We have to assume (I know what happens when you assume, but still...) that Stephens and Mathias will get a lot of minutes as the back-up to Davis. I know some people see Mathias playing 1-man, but Painter has given no indication that this is going to be the case. So it looks like Davis, Stephens(also playing some 3) and Mathias will all share the 2-man position. Where will Cline get minutes?

Now, there is the possibility that injury or academics could open up a spot for Cline, but let's pray this doesn't happen.

Now it's possible that Cline is just plain better and more consistent than Mathias or Stephens, and both were very inconsistent last season, Stephens especially. But Mathias is now a sophomore and Stephens is an junior and injury-free, so I would have to say that Cline would have to be really, really special to move ahead of either Dakota or Kendall.

So do you keep him around and not redshirt him in case something goes really bad (injury or no one can possible hit an outside shot) and waste a year of playing time for what could very well be, especially during the Big Ten season, less than five minutes a game playing time per game. Clines seems to be special, but there are too many with experience playing ahead of him for Cline to get quality minutes. If he is so special, do you want to waste a year of "special" where he might only get five minutes a game? Cline only gets four years. Why waste one year of that when he will struggle to get meaningful minutes on the court? Or do you look at things logically, and redshirt him so that next year when Davis graduates and around 30 a game opens up, he will be a year stronger and ready to be a real contribution? I think he should redshirt.

I'm one that is strongly against Cline being RS. You hit my argument right on the head with the comment that it's possible Cline could just plain be better than DM or KS. I think it's very possible that on any given night he could be a better shooter than either one of them. They are both too inconsistent. I want a third option even if it isn't needed every game. Give this team the best chance to win right now, don't worry about having Cline 5 years from now. Painter has 3 more years of recruiting to "replace" Cline after his 4 years. I have faith that he can do that.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

I've seen a lot of discussion regarding red-shirting Ryan Cline. A lot of it refers to Ryne Smith and his delayed development as a shooter & defender leading CMP to publicly state he wished he'd reshirted him as a freshman.

For his first two years we counted Ryne's pump fakes each game instead of shots & points scored. Many games he could never even get a shot off at all. And for three years he struggled with "D" until he became serviceable as a senior. I've watched Ryan Cline as the Kentucky All-Stars focused all their attention on him (double-teamed with faster and/or bigger players--all to no avail), and IMO his shooting skills and quick release are more like Ryne as a senior and have practically no comparison to Ryne as a freshman or sophomore. Additionally he is able to dribble/drive the ball to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself--something we rarely, if ever, saw from the "catch & shoot" style of Ryne Smith. Defensively, no doubt he has a lot to learn, but he's already at Ryne's senior playing weight and is two inches taller, so he can present a bigger perimeter threat physically once he gets comfortable with CMPs defensive philosophies..

I am looking forward to seeing him play in the exhibition games. With the tremendous potential this team has this year, and the certainty that great perimeter shooting will be a crucial make-or-break component of its success, I can't imagine shirting Cline. You can never have too many great shooters.

I've said in another thread that Cline is as good as a freshman than Smith was as a senior.

 

[FleeTheScene]

I've said in another thread that Cline is as good as a freshman than Smith was as a senior.

Do we really know that though? We haven't even seen him in a college game yet. If painter says that I can live with it but I think it would be really hard to say that based off of high school ball and some scrimmages, however true it may be.

A quick edit to say I would play senior Ryne smith over Dakota and Kendall both at this point in time, for what it's worth.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Do we really know that though? We haven't even seen him in a college game yet. If painter says that I can live with it but I think it would be really hard to say that based off of high school ball and some scrimmages, however true it may be.

A quick edit to say I would play senior Ryne smith over Dakota and Kendall both at this point in time, for what it's worth.

Absolutely correct. As always, we build up these guys to ridiculous heights before they even see the floor.

Ryne used to light it up at practice as an underclassman. Painter has said his problem with replicating his shooting in the game was confidence. While Cline may not lack for confidence, Idk, shooting well in a B1G game is far different from practice or high school.

Has Painter not shown over and over again that his players have to play defense to see the floor? If Cline can't guard effectively his playing time will consist of 3 point situations and short stints.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

Do we really know that though? We haven't even seen him in a college game yet. If painter says that I can live with it but I think it would be really hard to say that based off of high school ball and some scrimmages, however true it may be.

A quick edit to say I would play senior Ryne smith over Dakota and Kendall both at this point in time, for what it's worth.

I'm not saying Smith as a senior is all that hard to duplicate. A lot of people fell in love with Smith as a senior. I wasn't one of them.

 

[boilerzz]

I'm not saying Smith as a senior is all that hard to duplicate. A lot of people fell in love with Smith as a senior. I wasn't one of them.

I can certainly see how you feel that way. After all, he just averaged 9 points on 43.2% three point shooting and had a total of 22 turnovers in 1006 minutes.

 

[FleeTheScene]

I can certainly see how you feel that way. After all, he just averaged 9 points on 43.2% three point shooting and had a total of 22 turnovers in 1006 minutes.

Not to mention if we had anyone with his range right now I'd imagine our front court would be having a field day. Dakota is the closest in style of play. He likes his pump fakes and makes good decisions. Nowhere near as quick a release as smith had though, yet.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

I can certainly see how you feel that way. After all, he just averaged 9 points on 43.2% three point shooting and had a total of 22 turnovers in 1006 minutes.

That's all he was capable of. He couldn't dribble or create his own shot. He also couldn't defend. There is talk that Cline might play some PG. Add that to him being at least an equal shooter to Smith = advantage Cline. He's also much longer and more athletic than Smith. He can't be a worse defender.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

That's all he was capable of. He couldn't dribble or create his own shot. He also couldn't defend. There is talk that Cline might play some PG. Add that to him being at least an equal shooter to Smith = advantage Cline. He's also much longer and more athletic than Smith. He can't be a worse defender.

Until Cline proves otherwise, he definitely could be a worse defender than Smith was as an upperclassman. Smith had limitations and wasn't able to pressure the ball, but he was very sound and always in the right place. Regarding his limitations on offense, he knew his role and didn't make the game more complicated than it needed to be. He didn't waste possessions, which is huge.

 

[CRBoiler]

Smith was part of that year when Purdue led the nation in low turnovers per game, I think. Minimizing turnovers needs to be an area of emphasis for us this year.

If we had a Ryne Smith (senior year version) who could play off the bench, it would be valuable, despite Smith's limitations. The cool thing is our SG's are (or have the potential to be) better than Ryne in many of areas he was limited. If they or at least one of them could match Ryne in the areas he was strong, then I think it would be fantastic. Hope one or more of them does.

 

[boilerzz]

That's all he was capable of. He couldn't dribble or create his own shot. He also couldn't defend. There is talk that Cline might play some PG. Add that to him being at least an equal shooter to Smith = advantage Cline. He's also much longer and more athletic than Smith. He can't be a worse defender.

Smith was never a great defender but you are shortchanging his ability as a senior IMO.

 

[lbodel]

I've seen a lot of discussion regarding red-shirting Ryan Cline. A lot of it refers to Ryne Smith and his delayed development as a shooter & defender leading CMP to publicly state he wished he'd reshirted him as a freshman.

For his first two years we counted Ryne's pump fakes each game instead of shots & points scored. Many games he could never even get a shot off at all. And for three years he struggled with "D" until he became serviceable as a senior. I've watched Ryan Cline as the Kentucky All-Stars focused all their attention on him (double-teamed with faster and/or bigger players--all to no avail), and IMO his shooting skills and quick release are more like Ryne as a senior and have practically no comparison to Ryne as a freshman or sophomore. Additionally he is able to dribble/drive the ball to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself--something we rarely, if ever, saw from the "catch & shoot" style of Ryne Smith. Defensively, no doubt he has a lot to learn, but he's already at Ryne's senior playing weight and is two inches taller, so he can present a bigger perimeter threat physically once he gets comfortable with CMPs defensive philosophies..

I am looking forward to seeing him play in the exhibition games. With the tremendous potential this team has this year, and the certainty that great perimeter shooting will be a crucial make-or-break component of its success, I can't imagine shirting Cline. You can never have too many great shooters.

There are 2 things similar to both that will affect a redshirt decision.

1. Physicality. Ryan has flat out said he needs to improve his strength. You're also talking one of the most physical conferences in the country that we're playing in (if not the most). If Ryan spent this year focusing on this, he could really be a beast next year.

2. Depth. We have 2 "shooters" ahead of him and quite frankly, I don't know if we'll be playing Kendall/Dakota as much as we'd like to either. We did not have this kind of depth with Ryne's freshman year.

This being said, I don't see practice. Obviously one thing we don't quite have an answer on yet is PG and how that will be handled and that obviously affects the other guards. In addition, if Dakota/Kendall are healthy and PJ and Raphael have improved their perimeter shots, some of the argument may be for naught on "he can provide a spark"....if we have 4 guys who can hit 3s, I don't know if that's a great argument.