Redshirting

[cmarchino12]

Judging by comments made from Painter at B1G Media Day, it sounds like Eifert might start at 4. Wheeler, who it stated has been better at 4, would back GE, with Bourdeoux backing up Haarms at 5. If this happens, would they consider redshirting both freshman bigs in order to continue getting in shape or developing skill, or still just one?

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Judging by comments made from Painter at B1G Media Day, it sounds like Eifert might start at 4. Wheeler, who it stated has been better at 4, would back GE, with Bourdeoux backing up Haarms at 5. If this happens, would they consider redshirting both freshman bigs in order to continue getting in shape or developing skill, or still just one?

I think you redshirt Dow who is probably the least developed in terms of skill. I think you allow Tre to play and he’ll provide depth for 8-10 minutes a game and could be a good pairing for EB at the 4/5.

However, I think Eifert gets the first crack at starting but if Wheeler has the goods this year, I don’t think it’s long until he is starting.

 

[cmarchino12]

I think you redshirt Dow who is probably the least developed in terms of skill. I think you allow Tre to play and he’ll provide depth for 8-10 minutes a game and could be a good pairing for EB at the 4/5.

However, I think Eifert gets the first crack at starting but if Wheeler has the goods this year, I don’t think it’s long until he is starting.

This was along my same lines of thinking. Especially last part. I think Eifert starts to begin year, but if Wheeler starts putting it together after some game experience, we could see him starting later in season.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

I was fully expecting EB to be Purdue's 2nd best player. You guys dont even think he is a starter?

 

[cmarchino12]

I was fully expecting EB to be Purdue's 2nd best player. You guys dont even think he is a starter?

I was thinking this as well prior to this week, but Painter mentioned at Media day that EB has been much more comfortable and effective at the 5 and not the 4, and I can’t see him starting above Haarms. He also mentioned that he likes Eifert at 4 with a high scoring player like Carsen because Eifert is effective without scoring.

 

[Pu71indy]

I was fully expecting EB to be Purdue's 2nd best player. You guys dont even think he is a starter?

It appears that Painter doesn't think he is a starter from his comments. We all think Eastern, Carsen, Cline and Haarms start. That leaves only one starting position open with several competing for it. So someone of EB, GE and Wheeler has to settle for backup duty. Looks like EB slots in behind Haarms and Wheeler behind GE for now.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

I was thinking this as well prior to this week, but Painter mentioned at Media day that EB has been much more comfortable and effective at the 5 and not the 4, and I can’t see him starting above Haarms. He also mentioned that he likes Eifert at 4 with a high scoring player like Carsen because Eifert is effective without scoring.

It appears that Painter doesn't think he is a starter from his comments. We all think Eastern, Carsen, Cline and Haarms start. That leaves only one starting position open with several competing for it. So someone of EB, GE and Wheeler has to settle for backup duty. Looks like EB slots in behind Haarms and Wheeler behind GE for now.

Interesting. It's very similar to Archie starting the year off with McRoberts in the starting lineup.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Would much rather see Boudreaux or maybe hunter starting. Grady just isn't a threat to score. Think he would be much more effective coming off the bench.

 

[northside100]

I was fully expecting EB to be Purdue's 2nd best player. You guys dont even think he is a starter?

Good comparison. Painter puts great stock in trust. If he has a top talent like Biggie he’ll start him and let him play through mistakes. If it’s a close competition he’ll start the player that he trusts knows what he’s doing and can execute, particularly on defense. You may recall that Carsen came off the bench for a while as a freshman because he wasn’t playing good team defense.

All Grady needs to do on offense is hit open shots and I expect that he’ll be able to do that this year. EB’s minutes will vary based on matchups. There has to be a 4/5 tandem on the opposing team that he and Haarms can defend in order for them to be on the court at the same time.

 

[SCBoiler1]

If Grady Eifert is a starter at the 4 by the time the BG10 starts, Purdue will not be a top 25 team. Nothing against Grady but I would think it would say more about the talent of Boudreaux, Wheeler, Dow and Williams than it would about Grady's ability. We kind of know what Grady brings to the table, if he is the best option of the 5 players listed above, it might be a long year.

 

[Wolegib]

This would make me very sad after red shirting an entire year, that Wheeler with all his supposed talent is still not ready and still cannot beat out Grady for playing time. If he can't beat out Grady, after sitting out a year, will he ever live up to his hype? Or next year will we be seeing our talented incoming players and Tre also starting ahead of him? Saying Grady would start over Wheeler speaks volumes not about Grady's skills , but rather about Wheeler not taking his game to the next level.

I'm also saddened they are looking at Evan as a backup to Harms. I'd rather see him starting and playing at the 4 with guys like Tre and Dow backing up the 5. I really want to see a powerful 4 position with somebody contributing rather than the position being used as a role filler and complementary to the other 4 players.

It will be interesting to watch as it plays out.

 

[Wolegib]

I can understand where the 4 might not be the position that you want to run many scoring plays through. I can understand where you might want other positions to score. But you can't fill the position with a player who does not at least provide a threat to score. If you do so, you are just giving your opposing defenses a reason to totally ignore the position and double up on somebody else.

So what happens if Grady is open and receives a pass. Does he shoot? Or does he just hold it, and then wastes time on the clock and passes it back to somebody who is being closely defended?

 

[Treed1967]

Judging by comments made from Painter at B1G Media Day, it sounds like Eifert might start at 4. Wheeler, who it stated has been better at 4, would back GE, with Bourdeoux backing up Haarms at 5. If this happens, would they consider redshirting both freshman bigs in order to continue getting in shape or developing skill, or still just one?

I saw a still picture on twitter of Purdue practice and Evan,Nojel , carsen, Matt and Cline all had there jerseys turned to black and king so I wouldn’t read to much into what is being said in 3 weeks we’ll no who will be starting. Starting ain’t everything but finishing is what really counts. Evan can really really play. I read same comment and what I took from is defensively painter said Evan is better suited at the 5 and Aaron is better suited at the 4 defensively is the key word.Offensively they both may be better at 3 and 4. I’ll get a glimpse of what it all will look like today for the scrimmage

 

[Treed1967]

I can understand where the 4 might not be the position that you want to run many scoring plays through. I can understand where you might want other positions to score. But you can't fill the position with a player who does not at least provide a threat to score. If you do so, you are just giving your opposing defenses a reason to totally ignore the position and double up on somebody else.

So what happens if Grady is open and receives a pass. Does he shoot? Or does he just hold it, and then wastes time on the clock and passes it back to somebody who is being closely defended?

My guess is Evan has earned that position and Grady will play B/U minutes at the 4. I watched the whole 3 hours of media day and i gather as of now listening to some other videos painter is talking about the team he’s still figuring out positions with Aaron and Evan kinda finding what both is good at offensively and defensively. My son said both are doing well in practice. Nojel is also and option at the 4 as well bcuz he can score the ball. I think it’s a good problem to have when u have influx of talent and you trying to see which beat suits the team needs. Gonna be fun watching it all unfold.

 

[Emartin70287]

So it "sounds like" Grady might start from what he said. So basically Painter praises how Grady is an efficient player who could start. (We already knew he has improved and is a trusted player who could start if need be) Painter did not say he would start however. Giving compliments does not imply he will start. Evan can actually play the 5?, again no surprise here, he is a great player. Grady is a solid player, let's stop pretending he sucks (Looking at you Wolegab, where the sky is falling for Aaron Wheeler's Career if he doesn't start over Eifort) or hasn't gotten better and very efficient who knows his role. You are reading way more into this, and looking past how Evan Boudreaux is likely a top 2 or 3 player on the team and a very good player. He will likely get 25 to 30 minutes a game, and isn't sharing time at the 5 unless its for a small portion of the game. Boudreaux is a 4 through and through and will start as he is the best 4 on the team.

 

[Mandeville LA]

So, from a few comments at a media day we now know how plays where and how much? I don’t think that’s the case. It will be very apparent once play starts. Wheeler will be playing.

 

[Wolegib]

I know nothing. I'm just saying if Wheeler can't beat out Grady, I will be very disappointed. It's sort of like if Eastern can't beat out Sasha, I'd also be disappointed. It's not that Sasha or Grady are bad players. But we should have better players starting.

You have players you expect to start based on their talent level and hype. And you have players you expect to be backups and role players. When your role players are projected to be starters, it makes you concerned about your projected starters.

Coaches are often very good at misdirection and also lying to the media at press conferences. I still remember when Painter described Haarms as a potential 4 who was just really tall and had a great 3 point shot like the PF at Michigan. And some posters thought that meant we were going to have a potential twin towers of Haas and Haarms. That was last year's preseason talk.

Needless to say, I don't put much faith in anything a coach tells the media during the preseason. But I know some who believe every word he says must be true.

 

[Roeder]

If Grady Eifert is a starter at the 4 by the time the BG10 starts, Purdue will not be a top 25 team. Nothing against Grady but I would think it would say more about the talent of Boudreaux, Wheeler, Dow and Williams than it would about Grady's ability. We kind of know what Grady brings to the table, if he is the best option of the 5 players listed above, it might be a long year.

Grady shot the ball really well in the scrimmage today. I only watched the first two games, but he was Scrappy, rebounded, and drained several open 3s. It might have been a blip, but I can see how he might start. I agree there is a ceiling there, and for this team to reach their potential more talented guys will need to beat him out for minutes. He was a bright spot though.

Also, Williams and Dow have a long way to go, so I can see why Painter is talking about playing Boudreaux at the 5.

 

[*4purdue*]

It appears that Painter doesn't think he is a starter from his comments. We all think Eastern, Carsen, Cline and Haarms start. That leaves only one starting position open with several competing for it. So someone of EB, GE and Wheeler has to settle for backup duty. Looks like EB slots in behind Haarms and Wheeler behind GE for now.

I'm going out on a limb and predict this starting 5 by January.

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
Wheeler 3
EB 4
Haarms 5

 

[Boiler Buck]

I'm going out on a limb and predict this starting 5 by January.

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
Wheeler 3
EB 4
Haarms 5

Eastern??

 

[TX4GB]

Eastern??

Eastern will be in there. We need a physical guard who can board and play D at his size.

 

[Pu71indy]

I'm going out on a limb and predict this starting 5 by January.

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
Wheeler 3
EB 4
Haarms 5

Cline? Painter likes seniors. But I think we can all agree whoever is playing well that game will be in there at the end.

 

[northside100]

I'm going out on a limb and predict this starting 5 by January.

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
Wheeler 3
EB 4
Haarms 5

Barring injuries there’s zero chance that lineup is right.

 

[northside100]

I know nothing. I'm just saying if Wheeler can't beat out Grady, I will be very disappointed. It's sort of like if Eastern can't beat out Sasha, I'd also be disappointed. It's not that Sasha or Grady are bad players. But we should have better players starting.

You have players you expect to start based on their talent level and hype. And you have players you expect to be backups and role players. When your role players are projected to be starters, it makes you concerned about your projected starters.

Coaches are often very good at misdirection and also lying to the media at press conferences. I still remember when Painter described Haarms as a potential 4 who was just really tall and had a great 3 point shot like the PF at Michigan. And some posters thought that meant we were going to have a potential twin towers of Haas and Haarms. That was last year's preseason talk.

Needless to say, I don't put much faith in anything a coach tells the media during the preseason. But I know some who believe every word he says must be true.

Agree on the coaching misdirection in the preseason. Most of the rest is dead wrong.

1) There’s no correlation or comparison to Grady starting over EB vs your theoretical situation of Sasha starting over Nojel

2) The only ‘hype’ around Wheeler has come from posters on this site. I hope he turns out to be great but he was not highly recruited.

3) If Grady were to start it certainly doesn’t mean that the other players are disappointing. So long as he can hit open shots he’ll be fine as we know Grady will bust his butt, defend and rebound. If he starts and isn’t able to at least keep defenders honest I’d agree that would be a concern, but see know reason to assume that will happen.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Agree on the coaching misdirection in the preseason. Most of the rest is dead wrong.

1) There’s no correlation or comparison to Grady starting over EB vs your theoretical situation of Sasha starting over Nojel

2) The only ‘hype’ around Wheeler has come from posters on this site. I hope he turns out to be great but he was not highly recruited.

3) If Grady were to start it certainly doesn’t mean that the other players are disappointing. So long as he can hit open shots he’ll be fine as we know Grady will bust his butt, defend and rebound. If he starts and isn’t able to at least keep defenders honest I’d agree that would be a concern, but see know reason to assume that will happen.

Eifert played great against Illinois in place of Vince ... Eifert would start at more P5 programs than most people realize.

 

[Wolegib]

There's a huge difference in starting for a p5 program and a top 20 program.

And my simple point is if he's starting for Purdue, that means several other players are not close to the hype that was given to them. And that would be disappointing . We have so many experts who post here. I'd hate for them to be wrong.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

There's a huge difference in starting for a p5 program and a top 20 program.

And my simple point is if he's starting for Purdue, that means several other players are not close to the hype that was given to them. And that would be disappointing . We have so many experts who post here. I'd hate for them to be wrong.

Or Eifert has busted his ass and credit goes to the staff for luring him to campus and developing skill and talent.

Would you have said the same about JJ Watt and him walking on a Whisky?

 

[chaspark]

1. You can’t have a 6’6” 220 LB guy start for you at 4, especially in the B1G. No offense to Eifert but the other 4 in the conference would eat him alive.

2. EB’s game is that of a center, and Haarms can take outside shots. Painter may just make EB a 5 just for the offense. That way both of them can start.

3. In the end, a fan day interview don’t mean a squat. He might have just said that to motivate Tre or other players. If I was Painter, I would start Carsen, Cline, Eastern, EB and Haarms for the B1G. Eifert may start against small non-conference teams.

 

[Emartin70287]

Eifort didn't shoot the three last year because he didn't need to. He could occasionally get inside and make a shot, or an easy put back. He has really good foot work actually, and is efficient inside where it made more sense for him to play that way. This year, he may need to space the floor a bit, and after 4 years its not inconceivable that he may have developed a reliable shot, especially if left open. 5-7 in a scrimmage from three is likely no aberration. I fully expected Eifort to have the drive to improve, and there is no reason he can't be a good player.I don't care about hype of a given player, why not have some hype for Eifort's ability to improve into a solid rotation player.

 

[northside100]

1. You can’t have a 6’6” 220 LB guy start for you at 4, especially in the B1G. No offense to Eifert but the other 4 in the conference would eat him alive.

2. EB’s game is that of a center, and Haarms can take outside shots. Painter may just make EB a 5 just for the offense. That way both of them can start.

3. In the end, a fan day interview don’t mean a squat. He might have just said that to motivate Tre or other players. If I was Painter, I would start Carsen, Cline, Eastern, EB and Haarms for the B1G. Eifert may start against small non-conference teams.

1) I’d be interested to hear specifics on what you mean when you say they would ‘eat him alive’. He’d be a couple of inches undersized for a ‘stretch four’ but it’s not unprecedented. As a 220 pound senior he looks to have the strength to be able to bang down low as needed.

2) My understanding is that it’s not the offensive end that’s concerning Painter about EB at the 4, it’s his ability to defend that position. I’m sure there will be opponent lineups that will allow MP to play Haarms and EB together.

3) Completely agree, doesn’t mean anything, could be entirely motivational.

 

[Roeder]

I'm going out on a limb and predict this starting 5 by January.

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
Wheeler 3
EB 4
Haarms 5

After yesterday, I think the lineup starts out as:

Carsen
Nojel
Cline
Eifert
Haarms

By January, the only changes I see are Boudreaux beating out Eifert or Haarms to start at the 4 or 5. I get what Painter is saying about Boudreaux being better as a small ball stretch 5 after watching him yesterday.

I see Wheeler, Hunter, and Sasha being very important pieces off the bench all season. Matchups will dictate which guys play the most, and this might look different than Purdue playing the same guys every game as we have seen the past few years.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I know nothing. I'm just saying if Wheeler can't beat out Grady, I will be very disappointed. It's sort of like if Eastern can't beat out Sasha, I'd also be disappointed. It's not that Sasha or Grady are bad players. But we should have better players starting.

You have players you expect to start based on their talent level and hype. And you have players you expect to be backups and role players. When your role players are projected to be starters, it makes you concerned about your projected starters.

Coaches are often very good at misdirection and also lying to the media at press conferences. I still remember when Painter described Haarms as a potential 4 who was just really tall and had a great 3 point shot like the PF at Michigan. And some posters thought that meant we were going to have a potential twin towers of Haas and Haarms. That was last year's preseason talk.

Needless to say, I don't put much faith in anything a coach tells the media during the preseason. But I know some who believe every word he says must be true.

Too many fans here thinking "hype" equates to how good a player is. If a player had no hype coming out of high school, the team will fail if he starts. If another player came with a lot of hype but may not be a starter, he's a failure.

Haarms had zero hype when he enrolled. If Eifert had gone to a MAC school before transferring to Purdue as a 5th-year, he would have made All-Conference at his school. Some fans here would have bought into the hype and would have been thrilled to have him.

And I will add that just because a kid doesn't live up to the "hype", it doesn't mean the coach was lying. Fans hearing what they want to hear, generating their own "hype", shouldn't blame the coach if they are wrong about a player.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Too many fans here thinking "hype" equates to how good a player is. If a player had no hype coming out of high school, the team will fail if he starts. If another player came with a lot of hype but may not be a starter, he's a failure.

Haarms had zero hype when he enrolled. If Eifert had gone to a MAC school before transferring to Purdue as a 5th-year, he would have made All-Conference at his school. Some fans here would have bought into the hype and would have been thrilled to have him.

And I will add that just because a kid doesn't live up to the "hype", it doesn't mean the coach was lying. Fans hearing what they want to hear, generating their own "hype", shouldn't blame the coach if they are wrong about a player.

"If Eifert had gone to a MAC school before transferring to Purdue as a 5th-year, he would have made All-Conference at his school."

You base this on what? His .7 points per game in conference play last year or his 2 star rating out of high school?

 

[Treed1967]

Too many fans here thinking "hype" equates to how good a player is. If a player had no hype coming out of high school, the team will fail if he starts. If another player came with a lot of hype but may not be a starter, he's a failure.

Haarms had zero hype when he enrolled. If Eifert had gone to a MAC school before transferring to Purdue as a 5th-year, he would have made All-Conference at his school. Some fans here would have bought into the hype and would have been thrilled to have him.

And I will add that just because a kid doesn't live up to the "hype", it doesn't mean the coach was lying. Fans hearing what they want to hear, generating their own "hype", shouldn't blame the coach if they are wrong about a player.

You are correct with this comment. Best way to also say it don’t judge a book by its cover.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Eifort didn't shoot the three last year because he didn't need to. He could occasionally get inside and make a shot, or an easy put back. He has really good foot work actually, and is efficient inside where it made more sense for him to play that way. This year, he may need to space the floor a bit, and after 4 years its not inconceivable that he may have developed a reliable shot, especially if left open. 5-7 in a scrimmage from three is likely no aberration. I fully expected Eifort to have the drive to improve, and there is no reason he can't be a good player.I don't care about hype of a given player, why not have some hype for Eifort's ability to improve into a solid rotation player.

Here's the thing. I haven't seen EB, Wheeler or Williams play. My hope was that one of them would be talented enough to come in and possibly be Purdue's second or third leading scorer.

Some of the things people write on this board really are laughable:

"5-7 in a scrimmage from three is likely no aberration"

The definition of aberration is "a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected"
I guess most of us think that Grady will be a 71% shooter from 3 this year after averaging less than 2 points a game throughout his career. LOL

 

[SCBoiler1]

You are correct with this comment. Best way to also say it don’t judge a book by its cover.

Or don't judge a player by his play.

 

[Treed1967]

Or don't judge a player by his play.

You right especially right now season hasn’t started yet. May take some games to see what players can do either good or bad. Give these kids time to get acclimated to the college game 3 players on this roster hasn’t played ball in over a year let them get the rust out and 3 others haven’t played a college yet give them the same opportunities to make there mistakes as the 4 seniors departed when they were freshmen. This team got many pieces and parts and individuals who are all different and each one will bring something to this team that will make them a team that will cause so many matchup problems that will have coaches confused. Size length athleticism skiled guys shooters ball handlers players that can create for themselves and there teammates that is what this roster has and most important they have chemistry off the court put it all together and some games under all of their belt this team will be so dangerous by big 10 play I see the potential.

 

[BuilderBob6]

There's a huge difference in starting for a p5 program and a top 20 program.

And my simple point is if he's starting for Purdue, that means several other players are not close to the hype that was given to them. And that would be disappointing . We have so many experts who post here. I'd hate for them to be wrong.

Seems as though you are totally discounting experience and effort and put hype and athleticism as more important factors. I couldn't disagree more with your take.

I don't know how fans could have followed this program under Painter for so long and still don't understand or accept how he evaluates players and how their strengths fit into his concept of team basketball.

 

[Wolegib]

I am sort of concerned. If Grady made 5 of 7 threes, who was the player guarding him? Obviously to allow a player to make that high percentage of his shots, somebody's defense needs some drastic improvement. Yet, we don't discuss that aspect of the scrimmage.

 

[Wolegib]

Seems as though you are totally discounting experience and effort and put hype and athleticism as more important factors. I couldn't disagree more with your take.

I don't know how fans could have followed this program under Painter for so long and still don't understand or accept how he evaluates players and how their strengths fit into his concept of team basketball.

My take wasn't at Grady, but rather at the 20,000 posts singing the praises of other players. How many times have I read these other players are the greatest thing since Rick Mount. And yet when they arrive, with all their supposed talent, they still can't beat out a blue collar player like Grady.