Recruiting improvements?

[tjreese]

You mean Matt’s staff, practices, game planning, and in game coaching are less than 50%? Matt is also the primary reason (academics and/or ties to PU are a couple of other significant but less common reasons) that players come to PU to play (i.e. recruiting) so he is more than 50% the effect right?

I posed the question a while back with all the variables that push players to places and many thought that the coach was the biggest reason, but not over 50%. If you think that only the coach is enough I have no data to support or refute that and so you could be correct. That would mean players loaded in your spot...no effect. location..no effect? majors...no effect. girlfriends at school...no effect. Shoe companies...no effect...only the coach if he is over 50% determines where players go...only the coach...not assistants either...no effect? Although I can state Calbert Cheaney never hit is off with Weber and so I know of one case where the asst was important..perhaps there are others? I think if you talk to coaches...Matt carries a lot more respect than he does from fans, but maybe that is a "fraternity" thing?

 

[tjreese]

I think this is why Brohm is such a great coach. His system can win big games. CMP, I like him as a coach but for some reason his system isn't being very productive in the tournament.

I'm very happy with Brohm so far...think he has done great. Someone said someplace that this class was Purdue's best ever...and of course you wonder just what duration of understanding that person has. There are MANY differences in trying to compare football and basketball coaches...even though both will borrow ideas from the other. The simplest is the differential in scoring. In basketball you can't have an offensive and defensive team..or play 5 seconds adn rest 20 and so forth. In football there can absolutely be no scores in the game and then a team slip or have one error and lose the game..one single scoring play. In basketball no single scoring play exists today...never is there a 1 to 0 score. The coach has a LOT more control in a game than in basketball where it is up and down and a 2 minute section might generate enough scores to be the difference. I also do not think the rules in football have changed the game as much as in basektball and so you don't fall behind the 8 ball so quickly. In my ignorance...are there as many football players proportionally directed by shoe companies as in basketball?

 

[tjreese]

Painter has done the same to IU on a regular basis.

Danny Hope did that as well...

 

[Gemini95]

Big difference in star ratings between football and basketball. Karlaftis and Moore are better than any two recruits Painter has ever had. Add in Bell, and it's not even close.

Right. They give out similar total number of 5 stars for FB as they do for BB, but there's 8x more recruits.

 

[Poprudy]

Right. They give out similar total number of 5 stars for FB as they do for BB, but there's 8x more recruits.

I think this is all based on trust. Who do you trust more as a coach with the systems in place? For some reason I trust Brohm. CMP has had multiple opportunities and it hasn't worked in his favor. Once again, I hope this changes but after 14 years it seems the same outcome.

 

[Poprudy]

Also, we have never been a power house in football. Brohm seems to have changed the mind set of Purdue to the nation. What do most fan bases think of Purdue in basketball? It's Purdue...they will be out after week 2 of the tournament.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

I think this is all based on trust. Who do you trust more as a coach with the systems in place? For some reason I trust Brohm. CMP has had multiple opportunities and it hasn't worked in his favor. Once again, I hope this changes but after 14 years it seems the same outcome.

Brohm hasn't done anything yet. Not saying he won't but anointing him the king is a tad premature. You trust Brohm because he is the new "shiny" and the hype going around. You know the same thing that happened when Painter was entertaining leaving.

Painter has accomplished a lot in his 14 years and it always amazes me how quickly some on here discount it because of something YOU feel YOU need.

 

[Poprudy]

Brohm hasn't done anything yet. Not saying he won't but anointing him the king is a tad premature. You trust Brohm because he is the new "shiny" and the hype going around. You know the same thing that happened when Painter was entertaining leaving.

Painter has accomplished a lot in his 14 years and it always amazes me how quickly some on here discount it because of something YOU feel YOU need.

Tell me what has CMP done that has changed the mind set of recruiting? Tournament? Do you feel after 14 years that we should be trending in both of those categories? CMP is a good coach but we have never went beyond being good. Don't you want to be better? Until, CMP can change that....we are just that.

 

[Poprudy]

Also, can you remember the last time recruiting came down to OSU, Michigan, Penn St. And other power houses in football. We have been winning battles that we really haven't seen in football. Who was the big recruit we lost until the next big thing came? Hall! Either he didn't trust CMP or Purdue's system and that falls on CMP.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Brohm hasn't done anything yet.

Yes and no. He made back to back bowl games with a group of players that won 1-2 games a year.

Will be interesting to see what he does with the higher level talent he is bringing in.

 

[bonefish1]

Today that would be true due to the rep created by the Flintstones that led the way to other classes. Had he started at Purdue with similar injuries...who knows the strength of the rep he would have TODAY? If you think that playing time, location, friends, family, shoes and all the variables outside of the coach are less than 10%...who am I to argue?

Playing Time? How can that be used against a team with better recruits. Theoretically, players coming into a program with higher rated recruits would have more trouble finding playing time.
Location? E Lansing=$hit hole.
Friends? You mean all the recruits Izzo has pulled out of IN and their friends/family from IN?
Shoes? We’re a Nike school with a former AAU coach on staff.

 

[bonefish1]

I posed the question a while back with all the variables that push players to places and many thought that the coach was the biggest reason, but not over 50%. If you think that only the coach is enough I have no data to support or refute that and so you could be correct. That would mean players loaded in your spot...no effect. location..no effect? majors...no effect. girlfriends at school...no effect. Shoe companies...no effect...only the coach if he is over 50% determines where players go...only the coach...not assistants either...no effect? Although I can state Calbert Cheaney never hit is off with Weber and so I know of one case where the asst was important..perhaps there are others? I think if you talk to coaches...Matt carries a lot more respect than he does from fans, but maybe that is a "fraternity" thing?

Painters respect amongst other coaches is irrelevant. It’s how he and his system is viewed by top 100 recruits (and AAU coaches) that matters.
After all, other coaches have a vested interest in Painter’s inabilities in recruiting.

 

[Poprudy]

Playing Time? How can that be used against a team with better recruits. Theoretically, players coming into a program with higher rated recruits would have more trouble finding playing time.
Location? E Lansing=$hit hole.
Friends? You mean all the recruits Izzo has pulled out of IN and their friends/family from IN?
Shoes? We’re a Nike school with a former AAU coach on staff.

Agree, we somehow lose out on players that have every opportunity to play big minutes or start. They would rather drift to a school knowing they will sit the bench. That can't happen and shouldn't happen with our recruiting. There has to be a trust issue with family or friends towards CMP.

 

[bonefish1]

Brohm hasn't done anything yet. Not saying he won't but anointing him the king is a tad premature. You trust Brohm because he is the new "shiny" and the hype going around. You know the same thing that happened when Painter was entertaining leaving.

Painter has accomplished a lot in his 14 years and it always amazes me how quickly some on here discount it because of something YOU feel YOU need.

1 outright B10 championship
1 B10 tourney championship
4 Sweet 16s .
That’s what Painter has accomplished in 14 years.
If that’s meeting your expectations for accomplishments, you must come from the “everyone gets a trophy” generation.

 

[bonefish1]

Agree, we somehow lose out on players that have every opportunity to play big minutes or start. They would rather drift to a school knowing they will sit the bench. That can't happen and shouldn't happen with our recruiting. There has to be a trust issue with family or friends towards CMP.

Painter is Izzos biggest recruiter: Painter identifies the top talent, Izzo gets them to MSU.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Yes and no. He made back to back bowl games with a group of players that won 1-2 games a year.

Will be interesting to see what he does with the higher level talent he is bringing in.

But by the forum definition, he has only obtained mediocre results. Again, not knocking Brohm at all, but there is most certainly a double standard going on which makes comparing him to Painter a bit baseless.

 

[PU pit bull]

This whole CMP/Brohm comparison is stupid at this juncture....smh. CMP recruited the top class in the Big Ten in his second year, giving the Boilers probably the biggest turnaround in history which ended up with back to back Sweet 16's, a Big Ten title, and a conference tournament championship. Seems like both coaches had/are having a great start early on. Hopefully, Brohm continues with his success.........but who knows.

 

[PU pit bull]

Agree, we somehow lose out on players that have every opportunity to play big minutes or start. They would rather drift to a school knowing they will sit the bench. That can't happen and shouldn't happen with our recruiting. There has to be a trust issue with family or friends towards CMP.

I guess that's one opinion. There may be other rea$ons.

 

[Poprudy]

When do we become the top opt

But by the forum definition, he has only obtained mediocre results. Again, not knocking Brohm at all, but there is most certainly a double standard going on which makes comparing him to Painter a bit baseless.

Purdue has an established history with basketball of being good. Brohm has changed the mind set of recruits to trust in his system. CMP seems to struggle with that.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Tell me what has CMP done that has changed the mind set of recruiting? Tournament? Do you feel after 14 years that we should be trending in both of those categories? CMP is a good coach but we have never went beyond being good. Don't you want to be better? Until, CMP can change that....we are just that.

Just because I am not ready to tar and feather Painter and run him out of town like a few on here, doesn't mean I don't want more for the basketball program. I DO see an uptick in recruiting because unlike previous years, Purdue wouldn't even get a sniff let alone a visit and we are getting those now. That is a tangible improvement and he landed a very good recruit everyone is forgetting about in Newman.

We are the type of program that builds a foundation and then makes it successful. That is who Purdue has been for decades and no new coach is going to change that. Because those types of coaches are already at Duke, M$U and so on and those coaches aren't leaving their current spot for anyone.

 

[PU pit bull]

Painter is Izzos biggest recruiter: Painter identifies the top talent, Izzo gets them to MSU.

I wonder how Izzo gets them to M$U? LOL

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

There has to be a trust issue with family or friends towards CMP.

Ridiculous. How about you ask those families before making wild and unfounded accusations? Hall's own father was pretty high on Painter from his own comments saying "Painter can coach". I'm paraphrasing, but those words were close to what he said and if there were trust issue, I doubt he would say that.

 

[Poprudy]

Ridiculous. How about you ask those families before making wild and unfounded accusations?

Ok, relax. I can tell you for a fact Biggie and Williams had issues with CMP's system. They didn't trust his system. Rosie thought this was the best business move for him. Yes, it somewhat panned out. What did CMP gain from having Biggie? Did his recruiting respond? No, it hasn't. I can tell you KB Sr. really never considered Purdue to be a top option for his son.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Ok, relax. I can tell you for a fact Biggie and Williams had issues with CMP's system. They didn't trust his system.

Link?

 

[Poprudy]

Straight from the source. I told you Kbjr would be a 5* talent when he was in 7th grade. I told you Furst was getting an offer before it came out. Believe me, I know the Ft Wayne area very well. This isn't a I know more than you thing. I'm just telling you what has been said to me personally. I can't tell you about others but it seems to reflect his recruiting. I like CMP but you have to see an issue.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Straight from the source. I told you Kbjr would be a 5* talent when he was in 7th grade. I told you Furst was getting an offer before it came out. Believe me, I know the Ft Wayne area very well. This isn't a I know more than you thing. I'm just telling you what has been said to me personally. I can't tell you about others but it seems to reflect his recruiting. I like CMP but you have to see an issue.

Ah, so made up hyperbole then. Got it. Basically the type of thing like other posters saying they were in a room with Gillis.

 

[Inspector100]

I think CMP talks too much. Listen to his radio show on Monday nights and it is obvious that he controls the amount of time taken to receive questions. They are lucky to take 5 questions per show that lasts 55 minutes. Commercials are not an issue with this show. CMP takes up a lot of time talking. He does a good job explaining a situation or a decision, but it takes way too long to get it done. I listened once to Coach Brohm and learned right away that he doesn't mess around.

 

[Poprudy]

Ah, so made up hyperbole then. Got it. Basically the type of thing like other posters saying they were in a room with Gillis.

You can just look up my previous posts and see. I don't have be on here and say things that aren't true. That is not me! You are entitled to believe what you want but you can't change the way CMP'S recruiting has been.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

. I can tell you for a fact Biggie and Williams had issues with CMP's system

Sorry, who is Williams? Drawing a blank

 

[Poprudy]

Sorry, who is Williams? Drawing a blank

Malik

 

[ChoiceBeef]

But by the forum definition, he has only obtained mediocre results. Again, not knocking Brohm at all, but there is most certainly a double standard going on which makes comparing him to Painter a bit baseless.

That is fair. The double standard only exists in that Brohm has achieved success with minimal talent in a short time frame. Painter has been here long enough to establish his name and brand. Both of which are not appealing to elite recruits based on his recruiting results.

Could that change? Certainly. Could Brohm’s team stink it up the next few years and Bobinski be forced to fire him? Sure. Both are possible, I personally don’t believe that the probability is high.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Ah, so made up hyperbole then. Got it. Basically the type of thing like other posters saying they were in a room with Gillis.

You are incorrect. He posted stuff on here about KBJ that ended up being true before it was public knowledge.

 

[bonefish1]

But by the forum definition, he has only obtained mediocre results. Again, not knocking Brohm at all, but there is most certainly a double standard going on which makes comparing him to Painter a bit baseless.

The bowl equivalent of a sweet 16 is probably an Alamo bowl.
If Brohm is here for 14 years and has nothing but some Alamo bowls to show for it, people will be calling for his head as well.

 

[bonefish1]

Just because I am not ready to tar and feather Painter and run him out of town like a few on here, doesn't mean I don't want more for the basketball program. I DO see an uptick in recruiting because unlike previous years, Purdue wouldn't even get a sniff let alone a visit and we are getting those now. That is a tangible improvement and he landed a very good recruit everyone is forgetting about in Newman.

We are the type of program that builds a foundation and then makes it successful. That is who Purdue has been for decades and no new coach is going to change that. Because those types of coaches are already at Duke, M$U and so on and those coaches aren't leaving their current spot for anyone.

You’re right....coaches can’t possibly make a difference in recruiting or national perception of your program. Jeff Brohm says “Merry Christmas”

 

[bonefish1]

Ridiculous. How about you ask those families before making wild and unfounded accusations? Hall's own father was pretty high on Painter from his own comments saying "Painter can coach". I'm paraphrasing, but those words were close to what he said and if there were trust issue, I doubt he would say that.

He’s right, Painter can coach. He just can’t coach against good teams or in the tourney.

 

[PU pit bull]

The bowl equivalent of a sweet 16 is probably an Alamo bowl.
If Brohm is here for 14 years and has nothing but some Alamo bowls to show for it, people will be calling for his head as well.

Whatever. Then let's discuss this down the road...…..way down the road. LOL

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

Whatever. Then let's discuss this down the road...…..way down the road. LOL

Way down the road?

You mean like next year as I see 8-9 wins in 2019. That should get into an equivalent of a sweet 16 (Alamo Bowl).

 

[DAG10]

Ah, so made up hyperbole then. Got it. Basically the type of thing like other posters saying they were in a room with Gillis.

Caleb is on record...more than once, including his return last year when he was honored...with respect to his not wanting to play for Painter.

 

[DAG10]

This whole CMP/Brohm comparison is stupid at this juncture....smh. CMP recruited the top class in the Big Ten in his second year, giving the Boilers probably the biggest turnaround in history which ended up with back to back Sweet 16's, a Big Ten title, and a conference tournament championship. Seems like both coaches had/are having a great start early on. Hopefully, Brohm continues with his success.........but who knows.

Painter only was able to do it because he was able to do nothing but recruit when he arrived so as to assemble that class, and, because IU sucked at the same time.

Brohm inherited a mess, managed to win despite that immediately (Painter did not), landed a premier recruit in spite of it and then went out and landed a handful more on top of it.

Painter never followed the first class up, never mind rounded it out or took advantage of the on-court success that it had or national exposure that it received.

 

[PU pit bull]

Painter only was able to do it because he was able to do nothing but recruit when he arrived so as to assemble that class, and, because IU sucked at the same time.

Brohm inherited a mess, managed to win despite that immediately (Painter did not), landed a premier recruit in spite of it and then went out and landed a handful more on top of it.

Painter never followed the first class up, never mind rounded it out or took advantage of the on-court success that it had or national exposure that it received.

If you like that version then so be it. CMP didn't inherit a mess of sorts either?