Recent Painter article

[nagemj02]

I'm sorry, but if you can't tell that we haven't adjusted our style over the years, you need to get your damn eyes checked.

Early in Painter's career, people complained we never had size and Purdue always plays undersized, we can't rebound, etc. Now Painter has recruited and developed Hammons, Swanigan and Haas and Purdue's been one of the best rebounding teams in the Big Ten.

Last year, people complained we had no three point shooters and we can't hit outside shots. We're a pretty darn good 3 point shooting team right?

Over the last few years, people complained we're too defensively focused and we don't spend enough time practicing offense. We have the best offense in the Big Ten.

Yes, we know you hate Painter. But you're being the Kellyanne Conway of GBI right now.

He hasn't changed it enough to get better postseason results up to this point.

It was two seasons ago when the team's 3PT shooting was down, not last season.

I don't hate Painter but I don't like his inflexibility. His teams don't have to run the same halfcourt offense nearly every single possession and they don't need to play the same halfcourt defense every single possession: he chooses to do that. It's on him to be more flexible with his schemes and tactics. He needs to do that because he hasn't had any Final Four appearances in 11 seasons and generally has not been a good postseason coach.

(Not to mention, he coached the 2011 World University Games team of very good college players to a 7th place finish out of 8 teams.)

 

[BoiledSteel]

I don't hate Painter but I don't like his inflexibility. His teams don't have to run the same halfcourt offense nearly every single possession and they don't need to play the same halfcourt defense every single possession: he chooses to do that. It's on him to be more flexible with his schemes and tactics.

What a load of horse poop. If you actually watch and paid attention to Painter's offense, you will see there there is a lot of flexibility in it. Look at CE and the freedom he has to pretty much do what he wants. Also you can look at the recruits he is bringing in and see that he is wanting to change things up.

Plus, you have no real idea whether CMP is flexible or inflexible because you aren't part of the coaching staff. None of us truly do. All you have is your biased perception that is tainted because he won't run zone and since you saw it run somewhere and it worked at that point in time, you think CMP should run it without questioning you and your angry arrogance.

There are than a few ways to be successful and this season CMP and the team have done rather well, whether your hatred of him will let you admit it or not. Really the only person being 'inflexible' in all of this, is you. Because you have made it clear many times over, if CMP doesn't do things the way you want, then he is just a terrible coach in your mind. That is more your problem than anything else and by far doesn't mean CMP isn't doing things the right way.

 

[tjreese]

He hasn't changed it enough to get better postseason results up to this point.

It was two seasons ago when the team's 3PT shooting was down, not last season.

I don't hate Painter but I don't like his inflexibility. His teams don't have to run the same halfcourt offense nearly every single possession and they don't need to play the same halfcourt defense every single possession: he chooses to do that. It's on him to be more flexible with his schemes and tactics. He needs to do that because he hasn't had any Final Four appearances in 11 seasons and generally has not been a good postseason coach.

(Not to mention, he coached the 2011 World University Games team of very good college players to a 7th place finish out of 8 teams.)

Just for the record to help clarify...Purdue runs a motion offense that reads the defense and takes what is given, understanding the highest payback options asa first choice. There is no more flexibility than that. It may appear to be similar because those inflexible defenses the other teams employ allow many of the same things, because they too are trying to stop the highest pay back for Purdue. If those opposing coaches were not as stubborn and played Purdue much different, I imagine we would see modifications to what would appear as an offense for Purdue. Now, some could make an argument that Purdue needs more inflexibility by establishing more sets...more plays with a few direct desires. Personally, I would like to see a little more of that..a little more inflexibility such as a called clearout from time to time...assuming of course that Biggie is in the game and has shown an ability to score outside so the defense will leave with him.

 

[tjreese]

What a load of horse poop. If you actually watch and paid attention to Painter's offense, you will see there there is a lot of flexibility in it. Look at CE and the freedom he has to pretty much do what he wants. Also you can look at the recruits he is bringing in and see that he is wanting to change things up.

Plus, you have no real idea whether CMP is flexible or inflexible because you aren't part of the coaching staff. None of us truly do. All you have is your biased perception that is tainted because he won't run zone and since you saw it run somewhere and it worked at that point in time, you think CMP should run it without questioning you and your angry arrogance.

There are than a few ways to be successful and this season CMP and the team have done rather well, whether your hatred of him will let you admit it or not. Really the only person being 'inflexible' in all of this, is you. Because you have made it clear many times over, if CMP doesn't do things the way you want, then he is just a terrible coach in your mind. That is more your problem than anything else and by far doesn't mean CMP isn't doing things the right way.

***********************
In all of life..in every endeavor...there are an infinite amount of wrong answers and a much smaller finite number of correct answers...and forums are one of those endeavors...

 

[BoiledSteel]

***********************
In all of life..in every endeavor...there are an infinite amount of wrong answers and a much smaller finite number of correct answers...and forums are one of those endeavors...

So very true. Forums are for posting opinions and like you said, most of them are ultimately incorrect anyway. It just rubs me the wrong way when some are so stubborn and inflexible that they think every comment they make is fact and shouldn't be questioned.

 

[asmith640]

We are in our most efficient offensive state (I'm sure a stats guru could compile and see what offensive efficiency is after strong defense vs mediocre defense) after at least 2 back to back defensive possessions.

Strong defense is what makes an offense shine.

 

[*4purdue*]

It would be Purdue's luck that they would get players only wanting to play O and the refs would start allowing more physical D...

It's easier to teach a kid how to play D than it is to make him a great shooter.

 

[tjreese]

It's easier to teach a kid how to play D than it is to make him a great shooter.

that was sarcasm since Purdue went big and the rules changed. You recruit offensive abilities, but the winner or warrior is found in the heart of a defensive player. The warrior likes the odds stuck against him as he wants to beat them and thrives on the challenge. Defense is attitude, then physical abilities...but if you don't learn...that is a function of attitude as well. Players rarely want to improve their D, but throw a ball out and it is easier to get them to shoot it. Maybe soon, we can move past zone and break down shooting in this forum?

 

[lbodel]

He hasn't changed it enough to get better postseason results up to this point.

It was two seasons ago when the team's 3PT shooting was down, not last season.

I don't hate Painter but I don't like his inflexibility. His teams don't have to run the same halfcourt offense nearly every single possession and they don't need to play the same halfcourt defense every single possession: he chooses to do that. It's on him to be more flexible with his schemes and tactics. He needs to do that because he hasn't had any Final Four appearances in 11 seasons and generally has not been a good postseason coach.

(Not to mention, he coached the 2011 World University Games team of very good college players to a 7th place finish out of 8 teams.)

The point is that these are all things YOU have complained about why we aren't good enough and they have been changed, yet YOU maintain nothing's changed. You're being a complete hypocrite.

And now you throw out the 2011 World University Games? First off, the USA went 7-1 and finished in 5th, not 7th - out of 23 teams, not 8. Did you know that in 2013, USA finished 9th? Same thing in 2007? And the USA has won the event once in the last five events? So now you're throwing out incorrect facts to try to justify your absolute dislike of him? You really are Kellyanne - hope you have your microwave covered with tape so it won't spy on you.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Don't remember where it was published, but read an article recently on Painter and his recruiting philosophy and getting guys who are the right fit.
Was a little surprised to read how much his focus is still on defense and that's what he says to recruits.
Now granted, I realize we're B10 champs, have a POY candidate, were one of the top offenses in the conference, etc, so Painter must be doing something right, but I wonder how much of a negative it is on recruiting for Painter to still have such a defensive minded philosophy.
Not saying defense isn't important, but just curious if some really highly skilled guys with NBA futures don't want to come to Purdue because of it?

The article was about how Painter got guys to "buy in" and how much easier it was if they knew what was expected of them before they got here rather than afterwards. He went on to say that's why he always emphasized during recruiting if they wanted to see playing time right away then they needed to be able to defend as well as shoot. He said that when guys come in knowing they need to play defense if they want to see playing time then they weren't shocked to find out Purdue basketball wasn't just all about scoring.... unlike what many of them were use to in H.S.

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/pu/Buying-in-has-Big-Ten-champ-Purdue-riding-high

 

[Inspector100]

that was sarcasm since Purdue went big and the rules changed. You recruit offensive abilities, but the winner or warrior is found in the heart of a defensive player. The warrior likes the odds stuck against him as he wants to beat them and thrives on the challenge. Defense is attitude, then physical abilities...but if you don't learn...that is a function of attitude as well. Players rarely want to improve their D, but throw a ball out and it is easier to get them to shoot it. Maybe soon, we can move past zone and break down shooting in this forum?

ie. flaws in the shooting stroke of Kendall Stephens.

 

[tjreese]

ie. flaws in the shooting stroke of Kendall Stephens.

Kendall had an overstride and ended up shooting sideways...needed better footwork about as much as anything that I can remember...course my memory can be flawed

 

[Inspector100]

Kendall had and overstride and ended up shooting sideways...needed better footwork about as much as anything that I can remember...course my memory can be flawed

I remember a lot of his missed shots were either long or short. I saw some pictures of his form and felt he put the ball too far behind his head. I compared that to my times shooting the ball when I tried about everything. I learned to have the ball just above my forehead with my hand a little behind the ball instead of under it. This took a lot of wrist action away from my form and I became much more consistent. Stephens had the ball behind his head with his hand under the ball. So he had a lot of wrist action in his form. I currently feel this is the source of his inconsistent shooting where distance was the variable. Comments?

 

[tjreese]

I remember a lot of his missed shots were either long or short. I saw some pictures of his form and felt he put the ball too far behind his head. I compared that to my times shooting the ball when I tried about everything. I learned to have the ball just above my forehead with my hand a little behind the ball instead of under it. This took a lot of wrist action away from my form and I became much more consistent. Stephens had the ball behind his head with his hand under the ball. So he had a lot of wrist action in his form. I currently feel this is the source of his inconsistent shooting where distance was the variable. Comments?

I can't honestly remember his arms and hands as much, but can't recall a whole lot other than him shooting long a lot. I historically have probably been ingrained with Baumgartner. However a few years ago I was at Mackey at a kids camp and just so happened to be sitting in the stands with a couple of guys behind me and the conversation went into shooting instruction. I turned and starting talking to them a bit and an older gentleman (R.I.P Ernie) said..hey, I'm suppose to work with Brian Cardinal later and if you would like to stay I'm sure I can use a rebounder and passer while I instruct. Well, I like to learn and so it was a no brainer.

A few hours later Mike Robinson came in as Brian had some conflicts and while I was there with Ernie and Mike..on the other end was Jamaal Davis and Cam Stephens. He worked with Mike just shooting up close one handed getting the ball balanced and slowly kept shooting until he was at the FT line. Next, he started working Mike out of a chair. Mike would sit and as he straightened up he would release the ball and then I "think" he had him doing the same thing, but jumping and releasing. In an hour he had Mike standing out of bounds and draining one after another. Needless to say I was impressed and if only Mike would have practiced daily in what I saw...he would have been a different offensive threat from the perimeter. Ernie kept it pretty simple such as practicine lifting right thumb over right eye as though you were bringing the ball up.

 

[chaspark]

Geez, this is one of the most pointless arguments ever posted in this forum for the following reasons:

1. Painter is NOT recruiting defense-only guys. You don't get ranked top 100 by being a defense-only player, so the 5, 4 star guys don't apply to this. Even the 3 star guys have to have some offensive skills. The likes of Chris Kramer are a rarity. Painter is saying he wants a player who can defend, NOT that he wants someone who can ONLY defend. Duh.

2. The inherent design of the game skews the talent development toward offense anyway. You can practice your 3 pt shot by yourself in a gym, but you can't practice blocks by yourself. Kids wants to be the best dunker, not a best rebounder. Even the recruiting highlights focus on how they score, and rarely their defense. If you are being recruited by a B1G team, you are mostly likely to know how to score.

3. Name one priority recruit in Painter's era (including the ones we missed) who could not score.

 

[nagemj02]

The point is that these are all things YOU have complained about why we aren't good enough and they have been changed, yet YOU maintain nothing's changed. You're being a complete hypocrite.

And now you throw out the 2011 World University Games? First off, the USA went 7-1 and finished in 5th, not 7th - out of 23 teams, not 8. Did you know that in 2013, USA finished 9th? Same thing in 2007? And the USA has won the event once in the last five events? So now you're throwing out incorrect facts to try to justify your absolute dislike of him? You really are Kellyanne - hope you have your microwave covered with tape so it won't spy on you.

I'm talking about schemes and tactics. You're talking about shooting numbers. We're not on the same page.

5th out of 7th, I'm sorry. That is so much better than 7th out of 8th.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I'm talking about schemes and tactics. You're talking about shooting numbers. We're not on the same page.

5th out of 7th, I'm sorry. That is so much better than 7th out of 8th.

Read it again...

 

[nagemj02]

Read it again...

I'm pretty sure I remember them automatically being qualified into the quarterfinals in that tournament (8 teams). The bottom line is they didn't come close to winning it.

 

[BoilerAndy]

If playing defense scares some guys off, might I suggest they are guys that we don't really want anyway?

Which I would guess is the unspoken part of painter's point.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Because Painter is a Keady disciple and Keady had a defense first mentality and coincidentally, did poorly in the NCAAs.
Painter hasn't done well in the NCAAs either, not sure if there's a correlation or not.
Plus over a 24 year career, Keady put very few guys in the pros. Over a 9 year career, Painter has only put a few.
Just sayin...

John Thompson and RMK had a defense first mentality. That doesn't determine whether you put players in the NBA and it certainly doesn't keep you from being successful in the NCAA.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I don't hate Painter but I don't like his inflexibility.

Meaning that he refuses to play your idea of a zone defense.

 

[cgnops]

Maybe its just me, or the data, but CMP seems to be doing okay against the top teams in the league (and IU).