PG position....

[bonefish1]

The lack of a PG with the ability to break down a D and penetrate is going to hurt this team.
I'd actually like to see Hill take over the starting spot again because PJ seems to be struggling with pressure man to man. He's picking up his dribble too soon, getting caught in bad spots, doesn't provide any offense unless he's hitting an open 3.
This is where we really miss Bryson Scott and his ability to collapse a D.

 

[BBG]

The lack of a PG with the ability to break down a D and penetrate is going to hurt this team.
I'd actually like to see Hill take over the starting spot again because PJ seems to be struggling with pressure man to man. He's picking up his dribble too soon, getting caught in bad spots, doesn't provide any offense unless he's hitting an open 3.
This is where we really miss Bryson Scott and his ability to collapse a D.

Sorry but disagree on scott. He had shining moments like our current pg's do, but he was not that reliable imo.

Also keep in mind we were facing a very tough defense and one of our momentum changing events happened after pj dove for a ball. You aren't wrong though but I don't think having good Scott would make a difference and also I do believe biggie has his schollie...but could be wrong.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

The lack of a PG with the ability to break down a D and penetrate is going to hurt this team.
I'd actually like to see Hill take over the starting spot again because PJ seems to be struggling with pressure man to man. He's picking up his dribble too soon, getting caught in bad spots, doesn't provide any offense unless he's hitting an open 3.
This is where we really miss Bryson Scott and his ability to collapse a D.

From what I've seen, Hill brings nothing to the team when he's on the court. At least not enough to play huge minutes. JMO

 

[steve73]

From what I've seen, Hill brings nothing to the team when he's on the court. At least not enough to play huge minutes. JMO

In the last two games, neither point guard is doing a great job of getting Purdue in to its offense. PJ seems very tentative when playing better competition. Hopefully both can improve as Big Ten play begins since the competition is a lot better from here on out.

Boiler up!

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I

The lack of a PG with the ability to break down a D and penetrate is going to hurt this team.
I'd actually like to see Hill take over the starting spot again because PJ seems to be struggling with pressure man to man. He's picking up his dribble too soon, getting caught in bad spots, doesn't provide any offense unless he's hitting an open 3.
This is where we really miss Bryson Scott and his ability to collapse a D.

I miss the guy who was able to baptize the masses more than Scott.

 

[IndyBoilers2000]

Breesus you guys bitch alot! If PJ or hill tripped walking down the street u would complain. Are either of them all-american PGs....no, but its a team game and they arent going to be perfect. If we had a team full of every wish on this board we would be playing in the NBA! Settle down, enjoy the win and 12-1 OOC record and lets get ready for a dog fight in the Big10

 

[BoilerNGold013]

More than anything, PJ is struggling with decision making. The ball sticks in his hand waaaay too much and the offense suffers greatly as a result. Instead of attacking, PJ plays not to make a mistake. Mathias is the guy who got us rolling at the PG spot last night b/c his decision making was on point and he passed the ball quickly and on target.
I really like Hill for his defense and ability to drive a little bit but his passing isn't there either. Mathias should see more time at the point going forward.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Breesus you guys bitch alot! If PJ or hill tripped walking down the street u would complain. Are either of them all-american PGs....no, but its a team game and they arent going to be perfect. If we had a team full of every wish on this board we would be playing in the NBA! Settle down, enjoy the win and 12-1 OOC record and lets get ready for a dog fight in the Big10

I think the broader point to be made here is that I, and I assume many others, had hoped by the time the B1G season started we would've solidified our clear #1 PG. we haven't done that and that's the concern. There's still time of course. But we are starting the stretch of games where any team could beat us. I'm concerned we still struggle for long stretches with perimeter shooting as a team (not just a single player) and PG play has been inconsistent. For a team that has Final
Four aspirations, those two issues could be deadly.

 

[Dryfly88]

More than anything, PJ is struggling with decision making. The ball sticks in his hand waaaay too much and the offense suffers greatly as a result. Instead of attacking, PJ plays not to make a mistake. Mathias is the guy who got us rolling at the PG spot last night b/c his decision making was on point and he passed the ball quickly and on target.
I really like Hill for his defense and ability to drive a little bit but his passing isn't there either. Mathias should see more time at the point going forward.

At the beginning of the season I would have been against DM seeing point guard minutes. I was one of those who said no way he can't handle that. I'm starting to come around to the idea of giving him some time there. I would at least like to see it for some stretches and be able to judge from there. I like his poise and decision making and would like to see a little more of it.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

The reality is we have pg by committee. Bryson CHOSE to leave and honestly both parties are probably a little worse off for it but I'm not going to cry about spilled milk. I think Dakota is a decent option when the other team's pg isn't a big offensive threat, but we need pj and hill for those other times. No team is perfect but this team is special. I'm looking at this B1G schedule and licking my chops.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

If we can figure out how to hit a 3 while on the move the offense will automatically look better...didn't realize that when we played the past two games we are a spot up three shooting and making only team right now!

 

[depthcharge623]

In Hill's favor, he does try to drive and penetrate more than PJ, and this has the potential to create offense and open some more things up. On the other hand, for at least the last couple games, these attempts have been utterly fruitless. He drives into traffic and then dribbles off his (or someone else's foot) and loses the ball (probably hoping to be bailed out with a foul call, but that has been rare).

I'd like to see Hill continue to try and penetrate, but be a little more methodical about it. Perhaps it would do Painter well to draw up a couple plays for that very thing.

I thought both PGs played great defense last night. I think PJ played with more overall intensity, but Hill was hustling as well.

 

[BBG]

The reality is we have pg by committee. Bryson CHOSE to leave and honestly both parties are probably a little worse off for it but I'm not going to cry about spilled milk. I think Dakota is a decent option when the other team's pg isn't a big offensive threat, but we need pj and hill for those other times. No team is perfect but this team is special. I'm looking at this B1G schedule and licking my chops.

Well said.

 

[PU pit bull]

The reality is we have pg by committee. Bryson CHOSE to leave and honestly both parties are probably a little worse off for it but I'm not going to cry about spilled milk. I think Dakota is a decent option when the other team's pg isn't a big offensive threat, but we need pj and hill for those other times. No team is perfect but this team is special. I'm looking at this B1G schedule and licking my chops.

Yep, and IMO it isn't only the pg position.

 

[StateStreet123]

From what I've seen, Hill brings nothing to the team when he's on the court. At least not enough to play huge minutes. JMO

TD2, that's a pretty strong statement. I thought Hill played really, really good defense in the second half. Helped shut down Baldwin. Got some steals, forced an out-of-bounds turnover on the sideline, and generally just frustrated his man. That is bringing laot more than 'nothing'. I do believe his offense is struggling some right now. Needs to cut down on the turnovers. But based on his D alone (and if he can stay out of foul trouble) he needs to see the court for at least 15 mins per game - and depending on the situation potentially ALOT more.

 

[tjreese]

At the beginning of the season I would have been against DM seeing point guard minutes. I was one of those who said no way he can't handle that. I'm starting to come around to the idea of giving him some time there. I would at least like to see it for some stretches and be able to judge from there. I like his poise and decision making and would like to see a little more of it.

Dakota helps teh offense, but isn't the PG on D Matt typically wants. Any sort of pressure D starts with teh pg. Perhaps as time goes on, Matt makes a move to better offense?

 

[Dryfly88]

Dakota helps teh offense, but isn't the PG on D Matt typically wants. Any sort of pressure D starts with teh pg. Perhaps as time goes on, Matt makes a move to better offense?

I know he likes to put pressure on the opposing point guard full court, but I'll be honest I think that could be cut down a lot and not have any negative result. DM plays just as good if not better half court defense than PJ does. Often on TV it doesn't show up as much but live if you watch DM he really plays good defense. I for one didn't appreciate that part of his game until very recently. My point was that I would like to see some more of it so a good opinion could be formed.

 

[Chuchumutha]

Our issues at PG should not be a surprise to anyone. We knew it would be a concern coming into the year. Early on, I thought both PJ and Hill were playing well but as the level of competition has increased, they have been exposed a bit. My biggest worry with both boils down to poise. PJ just looks tentative too much and somewhat overmatched at times. Hill tends to speed up and gets out of control in some pressure situations. Nobody knows the strengths and weaknesses of these players better than Painter and it's his job to mix and match and put these guys in the best position to succeed. That's why he gets the big bucks. I think we've already seen adjustments (ala Mathias) to work around bad matchups. I think both players will improve as the season progresses but our PG play likely will be Painter's biggest challenge all year.

 

[rsomm]

Against Florida and Pittsburgh, two of the toughest teams we played this year, I thought our PGs did great. Only Butler is better than those two.

 

[bonefish1]

In Hill's favor, he does try to drive and penetrate more than PJ, and this has the potential to create offense and open some more things up. On the other hand, for at least the last couple games, these attempts have been utterly fruitless. He drives into traffic and then dribbles off his (or someone else's foot) and loses the ball (probably hoping to be bailed out with a foul call, but that has been rare).

I'd like to see Hill continue to try and penetrate, but be a little more methodical about it. Perhaps it would do Painter well to draw up a couple plays for that very thing.

I thought both PGs played great defense last night. I think PJ played with more overall intensity, but Hill was hustling as well.

Great D from our PGs has never been the problem, it's always been their strength, but we've consistently lacked a PG who could either hit a jumper or open 3. Rarely have we had a PG who could do both.
Now, we've got 1 PG who can't penetrate or break down a D but can hit the occasional 3 and plays good D. The other PG can't hit an open jumper, can penetrate/drive and plays good D.

I'd still like to see Hill start because we're starting to get into these games where we're starting really slow offensively and maybe he gives us a little more offensive punch by getting us some easier buckets?

 

[lylegolf72]

The MCL injury threw a wrench in the RayDay experiment at PG but I would much prefer to see him over Dakota. You point out Hill's strength is his ability to penetrate but remember RayDay in Feb/Mar of last season. His dribble drive was the only consistent scoring threat outside the post game.

 

[Heller]

Great D from our PGs has never been the problem, it's always been their strength, but we've consistently lacked a PG who could either hit a jumper or open 3. Rarely have we had a PG who could do both.
Now, we've got 1 PG who can't penetrate or break down a D but can hit the occasional 3 and plays good D. The other PG can't hit an open jumper, can penetrate/drive and plays good D.

I'd still like to see Hill start because we're starting to get into these games where we're starting really slow offensively and maybe he gives us a little more offensive punch by getting us some easier buckets?

Just because Hill doesn't take them doesn't mean he can't make open shots. We have a ton of guys to shoot we need defense and penetration from JH.

 

[tjreese]

I know he likes to put pressure on the opposing point guard full court, but I'll be honest I think that could be cut down a lot and not have any negative result. DM plays just as good if not better half court defense than PJ does. Often on TV it doesn't show up as much but live if you watch DM he really plays good defense. I for one didn't appreciate that part of his game until very recently. My point was that I would like to see some more of it so a good opinion could be formed.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm saying Matt's approach has been different. The reason why your thoughts may be in the future is because the others are not quick enough either to apply pressure at all spots. Dakota is bigger and a good passer...AND sometime soon I expect him to start stroking it. What I don't know is if Purdue plays a team that has a lightening quick defender at the point and how Dakota would do there. FWIW, Dakota really got AJ going with his feeds...TWO just exceptional, not flashy...no special effects...just proper placement AND timing

 

[BoilerFan#35]

PJ picked up his dribble 30 ft from the basket multiple times last night and got trapped. He needs to fix that habit

 

[PaBoiler78]

PJ picked up his dribble 30 ft from the basket multiple times last night and got trapped. He needs to fix that habit

speaking of PG's , did anyone see the move and the made basket from the UF player born w/ only one arm? nice story.

 

[rjmpu82]

Hill is capable of breaking down the defense off the dribble. I also think he does a good job on defense. I would like to see him and RD and VE try to penetrate a little more. It would open a lot of things up. Too often we pass the ball around the perimeter and take a 3 or try to get it inside when it is not always there.

 

[mathboy]

I recommend that any amateur analysis on our PG situation using the Vandy game as the "trend point" be done with extreme caution. I have posted this multiple times, but Vandy is a top 10 defense (when we played them). They fronted the post well enough. They were extremely good at covering the 3-pt line (short drive and 2-pt jumper was there), and they were very good at converging on most drives. Now what I mean is that for most of the plays, they did their defense very well. Yes, we made some of thee things happen, but for most of the half court, they played exceptional defense.

If you use only this game to judge anybody's performance, you are not using fair criteria. I think someone else said to throw out the low and the high, and that will give you a better measure of how the kid performs. Where does this lead the argument? If you judge Hill or PJ on the Vandy game, you will be looking at their performance in the harshest light, under the most trying circumstances. Even in the BIG we won't face that level of defense. MSU and UM are in the top 20, but nobody else in the BIG is even close, and we already know those will be tough games.

 

[Emartin70287]

Bryson might make more mistakes, but that's because he is actively trying to create offense, and in the past, his team being bereft of good offensive options makes this much harder. Not once last year did I think PJ was better than Bryson. PJ was a defensive liablility, as well as an offensive one. Bryson arguably was an offensive liability at times, but at other times, he was a boon. Enter a Junior Bryson Scott, and we honestly don't see improvement to basketball IQ? Last year it hurt to see PJ play so much, I was like put Bryson in! I felt his pain, I wanted to see him play, and succeed. When he played like he did against IU, it brought tears to my eyes when he finally took a seat. Bryson was a stud, he wasn't coached right, and yes a large part of it was still his fault. No disrespect to PJ, he is a much improved player, but he wasn't as good as Bryson last year, and he wouldn't be this year. Bryson has a much higher ceiling, and he would have brought something to the team that they currently do not have. He unlike Ronnie has never trash talked Purdue, he misses Purdue, I welcome him as fifth year transfer possibility. You can all disagree with me now.

 

[tjreese]

Bryson might make more mistakes, but that's because he is actively trying to create offense, and in the past, his team being bereft of good offensive options makes this much harder. Not once last year did I think PJ was better than Bryson. PJ was a defensive liablility, as well as an offensive one. Bryson arguably was an offensive liability at times, but at other times, he was a boon. Enter a Junior Bryson Scott, and we honestly don't see improvement to basketball IQ? Last year it hurt to see PJ play so much, I was like put Bryson in! I felt his pain, I wanted to see him play, and succeed. When he played like he did against IU, it brought tears to my eyes when he finally took a seat. Bryson was a stud, he wasn't coached right, and yes a large part of it was still his fault. No disrespect to PJ, he is a much improved player, but he wasn't as good as Bryson last year, and he wouldn't be this year. Bryson has a much higher ceiling, and he would have brought something to the team that they currently do not have. He unlike Ronnie has never trash talked Purdue, he misses Purdue, I welcome him as fifth year transfer possibility. You can all disagree with me now.

never ever thought about a fifth year transfer with him,but think you are on to something. He and Matt would know about each other and it would be free will with those understandings. It would allow Bryson a big stage to show what he can do...if he doesn't regress before then?

 

[slidde01]

Lots of folks that know very little about basketball posting on this thread.

That is all.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

TD2, that's a pretty strong statement. I thought Hill played really, really good defense in the second half. Helped shut down Baldwin. Got some steals, forced an out-of-bounds turnover on the sideline, and generally just frustrated his man. That is bringing laot more than 'nothing'. I do believe his offense is struggling some right now. Needs to cut down on the turnovers. But based on his D alone (and if he can stay out of foul trouble) he needs to see the court for at least 15 mins per game - and depending on the situation potentially ALOT more.

State, I'm still in the Christmas spirit so I'm not going to argue. But when you say Hill played "really good defense in the second half", what about the other parts of the PG's game....like distribution, no turnovers, scoring when needed, drawing defenses out because he can shoot? If he can't do any of the other stuff, and so far he's proven he can't, he's more a liability than a bonus. Sort of like Dakota going against quicker and better PG's on the other team. I say tell PJ it's his to lose, and let him run the show. Scary huh!.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

never ever thought about a fifth year transfer with him,but think you are on to something. He and Matt would know about each other and it would be free will with those understandings. It would allow Bryson a big stage to show what he can do...if he doesn't regress before then?

Please.....you can't be serious can you? Bryson is gone....and the door closed behind him. His choice and better for the entire program.

 

[njm8845]

It's crazy you think Scott was better than pj last year. Painter obviously disagrees with you, as Scott played 270 minutes to pj's 400. It's not some big conspiracy. Scott's a/to ratio - 29:27. Pj's- 33:19.

The only reason I can guess as to why someone thinks Scott was better is that he was higher ranked out of high school.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

speaking of PG's , did anyone see the move and the made basket from the UF player born w/ only one arm? nice story.

No I didn't see him, but I have seen Ronnie Johnson play like he only has a left arm.

 

[BBG]

No I didn't see him, but I have seen Ronnie Johnson play like he only has a left arm.

Okay that was funny.

 

[tjreese]

Please.....you can't be serious can you? Bryson is gone....and the door closed behind him. His choice and better for the entire program.

Absolutely serious that I never thought about it...and Don't know what matt would do since I wasn't privy to their conversations. Not sure how matt looks at fifth year guys in general. Does matt have a history of second chances? Probably wouldn't be in the cards, but I really don't know

 

[purdue4sure]

Bryson might make more mistakes, but that's because he is actively trying to create offense, and in the past, his team being bereft of good offensive options makes this much harder. Not once last year did I think PJ was better than Bryson. PJ was a defensive liablility, as well as an offensive one. Bryson arguably was an offensive liability at times, but at other times, he was a boon. Enter a Junior Bryson Scott, and we honestly don't see improvement to basketball IQ? Last year it hurt to see PJ play so much, I was like put Bryson in! I felt his pain, I wanted to see him play, and succeed. When he played like he did against IU, it brought tears to my eyes when he finally took a seat. Bryson was a stud, he wasn't coached right, and yes a large part of it was still his fault. No disrespect to PJ, he is a much improved player, but he wasn't as good as Bryson last year, and he wouldn't be this year. Bryson has a much higher ceiling, and he would have brought something to the team that they currently do not have. He unlike Ronnie has never trash talked Purdue, he misses Purdue, I welcome him as fifth year transfer possibility. You can all disagree with me now.

Is he on track to graduate next year? He has to do that to be eligible for a 5th year transfer.

 

[Dryfly88]

I know this is all wild speculation but.... I believe another consideration for 5th year transfer is you have to be accepted into a graduate program that isn't offered by your current school. Since he is attending IPFW that makes it further complicated in that IPFW offers many of the same graduate programs as the WL campus.

I could be complete wrong in which case please ignore!!

 

[77 grad]

Bring back Bryson? I'm happy with Carsen, P.J. and maybe Dakota playing PG next year.

 

[lbodel]

Yep, and IMO it isn't only the pg position.

It should also be noted that with Purdue's motion offense, PG is not as critical. That being said, it's still a position on the court out of 5 that we have a player at, so it can't be meaningless.

I think both guys have struggled at times to find their way. That's ok. As others have mentioned, I think PJ's issue is more decision making. When we have been winding down on the shot clock and the ball is in PJ's hands, we haven't had a lot of success (he has made some last second passes to a guy that's not in the greatest position - a game of hot potato basically). And as others have mentioned as well, Hill has had the right mentality of trying to create offense. Hill actually is shooting 70% on the season - on not a ton of shots - but that's still solid. His issue has more so been turnovers. But it makes sense - all but 1 of his shots are within the arc and 26/39 of PJ's shots have been 3s.

The good news is both of these issues are fixable. PJ needs to become more decisive and Hill needs to realize when its a good situation for him to drive into traffic and when it isn't (I think with him playing against better competition, he has a learning curve).

That being said, we have a lot of guards who are great at distributing the ball. I'd be much more concerned about this if we didn't have these guys. However, it still means that PJ and Hill have to be assets for the team when they are out there. They both have done well with assists. PJ has done much better keeping turnovers down, but to the point above, I think PJ is taking fewer "risks" than Hill.

One thing to keep in mind is defense. Hill has done pretty well defensively and leads the team in steals. PJ and Hill are also 2 solid free throw shooters (78 and 80% respectively).

I think the notion is we should have 4 scoring threats out on the court with a PG at all times. That's better than most teams. So as long as they are doing their duties, they will be ok.