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Offer Hazen Already Coach

That list must be of coaches with 10 or more years, because I can name several that have a much better win percentage than CMP, starting with Chris Beard and Shaka Smart
Shaka Smart has a .726 career win percentage. And Beard has 1 year as a HC in D-1, if they included him he'd be at .857 which would be #1 on the list. So yes, I do assume they probably have a 10 year minimum. Like I said in my post, Ollie would be on the list higher than Painter, but he's been there only 4 years.
 
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Shaka Smart has a .726 career win percentage. And Beard has 1 year as a HC in D-1. I assume they probably do have a 10 year minimum. Like I said in my post, Ollie would be on the list higher than Painter, but he's been there only 4 years.
Shaka has a .726 win percentage, you are looking at his Texas percentage only
 
IMHO (and you all know I hate OPINIONS!), the core of every dislike is that people thought our talent level was far higher this year than it truly was. Change the expectations, and one or two games (and don't get started on not judging on one game - I totally agree) and there would not have been 1,782,462 words written about Painter's coaching. The result of every expectation is frustration. No expectations=no frustrations.

We can rant all day about the best front court or how Ray wasn't as good after the injury or that Vince didn't do something we expected he would, but the bottom line is that after a really good start of the season, people thought we were great when we were really only the 12th best team in the country, and lost a game we should not have. I like simplicity.

people swallow the hype of the tourney and soon think coaches all of a sudden don't know anything or all of a sudden know everything. Play the tourney all over again and the results are different and I doubt coaches change much at all...perhaps some player tweaks they never had as much info on...
 
As frustrating (at times) as it has been to be a Purdue fan (30+ years watching), I must admit, it's pretty AWESOME how passionate our fan base is. There is no denying our base. It's late April and we can have a hotly debated thread about recruiting offers, how we look next year, how the offense/defense we compare (next year vs this year), etc. Most message boards are completely vacant this time of year, yet here we are in good numbers discussing a wide variety of topics. When I think of how much our base would enjoy and appreciate a Final Four, it gives me chills.

We have those in the pro-Painter camp and those that want to see a change in direction. There are those in the middle waiting to see how things unfold in the next year or so before seeing which camp they want to be in.

To me, I can see the argument on both sides. I do think Painter is a good coach. I think he will continue to win a good number of games and he's brought the program to a pretty good place from the late Keady years. The talent we have been getting the last couple years has improved. We probably won't have those last place finishes that we had a couple years ago and will solidly be in that upper half of the B1G with an occasional shot at the title. We will make the tourney most years. For many programs, that's a good place to be. Some worry that the next coach won't be as successful (see football program), so let's count our blessings with what we have. I get that.

Then there are those that are frustrated and teased by the talented teams we put together every 4-6 years or so that no one can deny has the potential to go deep in the tourney - only to come up short. These are teams that aren't easy to put together, so kudos to Painter for assembling them in the first place. Keady did this throughout his tenure (except for the last few years). These teams excite our fan base like an assembled mass of high octane fireworks, only to not have the fuse lit. When they fall short against the fan base's expectation, fans question Painter, who while a good coach, hasn't shown that his best teams can put it together in the NCAA, a single game elimination event - where an off night by even a great team can mean it's all over. Those fans don't believe Painter will ever take us to a Final Four. So, let's roll the dice with someone who might. If you are afraid to go for a higher ceiling with another coach, then be happy with the status quo for the last 11 years. Let's find the right guy.

I think Painter is a good coach. He knows his X's and O's (at least in terms of motion offense and man-to-man defense). For the most part, he builds a good game plan against an opposing team. He's good with the media (though some may argue he puts too much blame on the players). He represents the university well. Over his 11 years, his teams represent the university well (not getting into trouble and shenanigans).

I think where I personally find his weaknesses are in some softer skills and his stubbornness. To me, like the Cincinnati game and the Little Rock game, it wasn't so much that they lost, it was HOW they lost. It was the lack of aggressiveness/confidence, the lack of belief, the deer-in-the-headlights look on most of his guys. I think players pick up the demeanor of the coach and I think the last couple years Painter gets tight in the big game and the players follow suit. I think he has such control over his players and teams - it seems that they care much more of his approval than sometimes the outcome of the game. Don't screw up, do exactly what he wants. If we do what he wants, we'll be fine. It's like they forget there's a game on the court to win. Then, in crunch time, when a player needs to be aggressive and go for the win and attack the defense, or react to a game situation that just isn't written up on Painter's (or any coaches) whiteboard, they just don't have it in them - it's like they been overcoached or conditioned to be like this. I think those here (correct me if I'm wrong) want to see a new direction with Cuonzo or others listed in the thread because they want a coach who has the potential to bring in the same or higher level recruits and build that belief.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15356168/brad-stevens-next-superstar-head-coach

I'm not comparing Painter to Stevens, but in the article above, Steven's talks about a circumstance that I think appiles to Painter in my book:

"In his first season at Butler, Stevens started 8-0, but the ninth game was at Wright State, a notoriously difficult road venue. The young coach fretted about it for days. When game time arrived, Stevens snapped at his players, he harangued the officials, and his team departed a 43-42 loser. As he reviewed the game film late into the night, hoping to decipher why his team, which typically scored in the 60s, had struggled, the answer became obvious.

"I'm watching and thinking, 'Well, no wonder they were tight. I was tight,'" Stevens recalls.

From that moment on, he vowed he would never lose another game because he was on edge."

My only other minor gripe from Painter would be to close the deal in recruiting on a semi dynamic guard (shoot and dribble drive). He's had one (Etwaun Moore) who was excellent from Day 1. I don't see why a guard like that wouldn't want to come to Purdue. Others have indicated some guards are put off by the strict motion offense that he runs that takes away freedom and dynamic from a really good guard. If he can fix these 2 things (the tightness and guard situation), then I think he could be the guy to get us to a Final Four. If not, then I think a search committee needs to look for a coach who has these types of qualities and make a change.

FWIW, understand that when you read forums...at every site most posters have never coached. THAT is not to suggest that people that have not coached cannot have valid points. I do think that there may be a better understanding for "more" things ranging from players skills or lack of and some x and 0's than someone that hasn't coached. Sometimes people understand that "roles" are assigned to most players based upon the team at hand and the skill sets at that time. THAT is another reason why it is important to develop when the season is not in play...something I hope Basil took to heart and THAT bigger butt is all muscle. ;)

Ronnie Johnson had no trouble with a press because the kid had confidence...and Matt was the coach. I only use him since we all remember him playing at Purdue...this is not to suggest Purdue is worst off with him leaving. I knew at high school he wouldn't have an issue with the press at Purdue and posted such several times years ago. So, some players have it and others don't and it is probably highly, positively, correlated AND CAUSAL with foot speed since the D has to cover space over time. I remember watching Davis at Kokomo in the junior senior all star game and how Robinson's athleticism was so obvious and just how hard Zeller worked on the boards. Another impression was just how slow Davis was which worried me, but various posters said it was because he had been hurt. Purdue on the whole lacked foot speed last year. It wasn't a secret...neither was Purdue's strength inside. What coach wouldn't want a helter-skelter game of quickness with Purdue if he had the players?

Still, I always thought a coached needed to provide a facade of calmness when everything was going crazy because I too think it may play on some kids while others are not fazed. Sometimes it is not easy to do though...kinda like a poker player bluffing. What I and the others on this site do not see are the practices, what is practiced and the inside understanding of the player's uninhibited strengths and weaknesses. We don't see countless hours of film of player and team tendencies. We don't understand many times which players are to do "what" that game against "what" players and game situation calls? We don't see who Purdue has that may not match-up with the other team's certain players on the court location and how other players may defend differently. We typically watch the ball and yet there are four people without the ball.

Just prior to but mostly when the baby boilers were freshmen i remember making comments about how loose Matt's teams were on offense...particularly in comparison to almost all of Gene's teams (not a totally fair comparison since the rules were different). I remember thinking those players would lose some games by not always making good decisions, but knowing they wouldn't be tight in the pressure games either. Now, we hear some consider Matt making his players too tight. Did the players change or did Matt...or a little of both?

I'll be glad when Purdue gets to the next final four so I can say...see, it isn't that big of a deal. Play them again and the results are different...it no way defines the best team but I fully understand "some" only use tourney success as a measure. You brought up some good points...but remember how far back Ronnie moved Purdue in play and how recruiting of others was eliminated.

Many posters have some valid concerns, but there is way too much confounded in the variables to have a clear, reasonably founded opinion in just how good or how bad Matt is. i personally like MANY things he does from an X and O point. I wish Purdue got a better mix of skill and athleticism and think we will see Purdue start to evolve after Haas to a more athletic and quicker team...since the rule changes.
 
I agree with you on Lee Rose, but the difference is he did not use the same strategy every game. His strategy was for an opponent. Matt's is for what we do best and if the other team takes it away... game over. I think most teams played us this year thinking they could try to take away the inside and make us win on the perimeter... knowing if that didn't work, they would abandon that & press, knowing that would work & it did.
4purdue, I must disagree. You are correct on the take away inside, force us to score from the perimeter, then press if all else fails. You are also correct that it worked. I disagree with why you think it worked. If the middle is packed with 8 to 10 defensive feet in the paint and your guards are unable to knock down an open three at a high percentage, you better have couple guys who can penetrate and finish. When the press came we again were lacking in ball handling. Not enough adjustments exist to cure all that. ALR used each of those strategies and unfortunately at the guard positions we failed to score while not being guarded at all in the last 3 or 4 minutes. When we pulled the point we couldn't handle the press.
 
4purdue, I must disagree. You are correct on the take away inside, force us to score from the perimeter, then press if all else fails. You are also correct that it worked. I disagree with why you think it worked. If the middle is packed with 8 to 10 defensive feet in the paint and your guards are unable to knock down an open three at a high percentage, you better have couple guys who can penetrate and finish. When the press came we again were lacking in ball handling. Not enough adjustments exist to cure all that. ALR used each of those strategies and unfortunately at the guard positions we failed to score while not being guarded at all in the last 3 or 4 minutes. When we pulled the point we couldn't handle the press.

The lost art of the mid-range pull-up J would have helped them as well vs. the UALR D. There were probably only 3 or 4 players that made them at a decent clip last season (VE, AJH, Swanigan, maybe Mathias) but Mathias and Edwards didn't shoot as many as they could have in that range, opting for the 3PT more often than not.
 
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4purdue, I must disagree. You are correct on the take away inside, force us to score from the perimeter, then press if all else fails. You are also correct that it worked. I disagree with why you think it worked. If the middle is packed with 8 to 10 defensive feet in the paint and your guards are unable to knock down an open three at a high percentage, you better have couple guys who can penetrate and finish. When the press came we again were lacking in ball handling. Not enough adjustments exist to cure all that. ALR used each of those strategies and unfortunately at the guard positions we failed to score while not being guarded at all in the last 3 or 4 minutes. When we pulled the point we couldn't handle the press.
DG, I see what your saying, but with D1 talent on your team, if you practice breaking the press enough, you should be able to do it, or at least get better at it. From the first B1G game against Iowa, to the last game against LR, we were making the same mistakes against the press. Thats coaching. There is an art to breaking a press and it can be done, even with the ball handlers we had. We were not getting the ball taken away from us, we were making poor passes and bad decisions. That all falls back on CMP.
 
DG, I see what your saying, but with D1 talent on your team, if you practice breaking the press enough, you should be able to do it, or at least get better at it. From the first B1G game against Iowa, to the last game against LR, we were making the same mistakes against the press. Thats coaching. There is an art to breaking a press and it can be done, even with the ball handlers we had. We were not getting the ball taken away from us, we were making poor passes and bad decisions. That all falls back on CMP.

I think everyone has some good points. However, there is no such thing as "THE PRESS". The press Iowa ran was different than the press Maryland ran and both different than what UALR ran which was more similar to Nebraska which Purdue had no problem. "MOST" presses teach to steal the pass rather than to pick up fouls while trying to take the ball away from the guy that has it...and I'm leaning more to zone presses than man presses, but different presses have different emphasis and yet many similar things. That said I do think there were a couple of things I would have liked to see Matt do different.

Before the season started I posted a lot stating I expected Purdue to see a lot of zone AND presses. I also stated back then that the presses would NOT be for long durations, but to catch the players off guard for a couple of minutes and to get out of the press before the Purdue players got used to it. I think the Iowa press lasted a little over 5 minutes in the second half and Iowa was in the game. Playing a softer press that eats clock and hopes for mistakes and bad passes...ate clock to help in the defense leaving less time to defend Purdue inside play. Consequently, this was not a secret to Purdue either and they had to choose to slowly work the ball up or go a little quicker and perhaps get trapped or throw the ball away. Rest assured the Purdue staff put more than 5 players in a press against the 5 offensive players in practice to simulate more speed in the press (cover the distance with more players)...but the same slow foot speed in a real game never provided the speed necessary to imitate a legitimate press.

Why didn't other teams press Purdue all game? Why did I think they wouldn't? What does that suggest? Does it suggest that a press wouldn't be effective over the long haul? Why? Were any of the presses different than anything Matt has seen or typically what is typically used across the country? Was the distance covered over time something that could be learned in a few minutes?

FWIW, I think Purdue could have dribbled the ball more against the presses generally. I also think Purdue could have screened more in the middle of the court against odd front zone presses. Two general tweaks I think Purdue could have done more. That said, I don't think it is all on Matt, nor do I think the players did the absolute best things against the zone presses and they could have been tweaked.

Bottom line teams got in and out of presses quickly. Why? Why did opposing coaches not think a press would be effective over a longer duration? There wasn't a press that all the players have not played against...nor Matt have coached against...not a press..and yet the surprise and short duration was sought by all opposing coaches. I personally think the players get used to it and have confidence in breaking it and it loses its effectiveness...with the same basic approach to breaking it but perhaps players adjusting to the space and time better.

AGain, I do think Matt could have been more forceful and/or strategic in a few tweaks...but none of those presses would have bothered Ronnie Johnson (only showing foot speed effect)...with Matt coaching and so players and coaches need to get better at beating presses and foot speed will help that. Let's see if Purdue is better next year against the press than last year. I suspect they will be and the biggest improvement IMO will be foot speed..obviously when Haas is not in... :)
 
DG, I see what your saying, but with D1 talent on your team, if you practice breaking the press enough, you should be able to do it, or at least get better at it. From the first B1G game against Iowa, to the last game against LR, we were making the same mistakes against the press. Thats coaching. There is an art to breaking a press and it can be done, even with the ball handlers we had. We were not getting the ball taken away from us, we were making poor passes and bad decisions. That all falls back on CMP.
It's almost comical.
You say there is an art to breaking a press. In some ways I agree in that the way a press is broken can be somewhat unique each time it happens. Tell me, how do you teach someone to be artistic? I think it has been proven you either have it or you don't. You can watch Bob Ross all you want be he isn't going to make you a great painter. How to you teach a player to be "artistic" in breaking a press? Can that be a learned skill or do you have to be an instinctual player?You can teach a player how to break every press on paper but it's far different on the court.

You then double down with " we were making poor passes and bad decisions". So the players on the court were making bad decisions despite all their time spent practicing how to break the press. Hello? Does that tell you anything? To create your piece of art that is breaking the press you have to make good decisions. So how do you teach a player to make those good decisions, other than the practice the hell out of it.........which is still not a guarantee of success.

You continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge of how the game is really played.
 
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It's almost comical.
I personally think the players get used to it and have confidence in breaking it and it loses its effectiveness...with the same basic approach to breaking it but perhaps players adjusting to the space and time better.

AGain, I do think Matt could have been more forceful and/or strategic in a few tweaks...but none of those presses would have bothered Ronnie Johnson (only showing foot speed effect)...with Matt coaching and so players and coaches need to get better at beating presses and foot speed will help that. Let's see if Purdue is better next year against the press than last year. I suspect they will be and the biggest improvement IMO will be foot speed..obviously when Haas is not in... :)
You continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge of how the game is really played.
Thank you both for saving me all the time you both took to write what I would have tried to say.
 
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It's almost comical.
You say there is an art to breaking a press. In some ways I agree in that the way a press is broken can be somewhat unique each time it happens. Tell me, how do you teach someone to be artistic? I think it has been proven you either have it or you don't. You can watch Bob Ross all you want be he isn't going to make you a great painter. How to you teach a player to be "artistic" in breaking a press? Can that be a learned skill or do you have to be an instinctual player?You can teach a player how to break every press on paper but it's far different on the court.

You then double down with " we were making poor passes and bad decisions". So the players on the court were making bad decisions despite all their time spent practicing how to break the press. Hello? Does that tell you anything? To create your piece of art that is breaking the press you have to make good decisions. So how do you teach a player to make those good decisions, other than the practice the hell out of it.........which is still not a guarantee of success.

You continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge of how the game is really played.
How do you know all the time that was spent practicing how to break the press? Were you at practice? You learn master things by practice and repetition. There are several things you do and don't do no matter what press is being used. Staying out of the corners is something everyone knows. We didn't do it. Utilizing your size advantage against the press is another strategy, we didn't do it. Pushing the tempo after a basket is another option, we always were slow and let the defense get set. There are another 1/2 dozen things we did poorly or didn't try. Honestly, I don't think we practiced against the press in practice all that much, at least it didn't look like it.
 
Thank you both for saving me all the time you both took to write what I would have tried to say.

I understand the frustration and few things frustrate as much as a press or great man pressure that doesn't let you into an offense. I also understand that teaching concepts takes place in some students better than others. I also understand that many great Ft shooters tried to teach Wilt...Shaq and so forth and the results were not great. We shall see if the press is quite the detriment the next two years as it was the last two years at time...I don't think it will be.
 
I understand the frustration and few things frustrate as much as a press or great man pressure that doesn't let you into an offense. I also understand that teaching concepts takes place in some students better than others. I also understand that many great Ft shooters tried to teach Wilt...Shaq and so forth and the results were not great. We shall see if the press is quite the detriment the next two years as it was the last two years at time...I don't think it will be.
A coach can accomplish a lot more in the weeks before the season than he can in the one or two days that he has to prepare for the upcoming opponent during the season.
 
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A coach can accomplish a lot more in the weeks before the season than he can in the one or two days that he has to prepare for the upcoming opponent during the season.
AND players can improve more in the off season than during the season.
of-course-it-is-hard.jpg
 
OT: that is one of my favorite movies.
Well, I can't even tell you what movie it was. I had the quote or close to it for close to 30 years on a poster with a guy dunking the basketball...and it wasn't wade. She captured the thought and so I choose it. What was the movie and maybe I'll rent it...sounds like my kind of movie and I rarely watch movies...

oops I guess it said the movie at the bottom of the pic... ;)
 
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