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With me it's more the eye test. We can twist numbers all you want. I've watched Purdue basketball and college basketball for over 40 years. IMO, we have been average, or like I said, slightly above average under CMP. I never said he was a poor coach. I just think Purdue should be better than average. With 3 NBA caliber players on the front line, you should not finish 4th in the league and be a first round exit in the NCAAT. His entire 11 years have really been much the same as this season... Filled with more disappointment than exceeding expectations. He's not a poor coach, he's just not a great coach. His recruiting has been fine IMO, it's his game coaching that has been below average. Put them together and you have an average coach.

That is fair. I believe many think in his early years he exceeded expectations in the tourney. I also understand what you say about potential NBA players. However, there were more than three teams with more talent than Purdue in the BIG and the rule changes effected the last two years moved the lean to offensive perimeter players. The unbalanced schedule is a problem all the way around for ranking within the conference. That not happening and IU probably doesn't win the league and tie Purdue for most league wins. Hate to admit it but it has been forty years since I graduated from Purdue and I go back a little over a decade before that watching Butler. During those years the tourney has grown in hype and the rules have eliminated much at the disposal of coaches. I hate the shot clock as much as anything.

The last two years have provided difficult endings...primarily meltdowns that left a bad taste in many a mouth. Course Ronnie Johnson made coaching look much better against a press and so the players at disposal do in fact change what you can do as the other team has a say in how effective the x and o's are. Confounded in the last two years meltdowns against the press is the inability to separate the abilities of players relative to execution and problematic approaches to zone presses, man presses and run and jump. That said, I think the VCU game was his biggest mistake and it was in the half court D. I think the Cincinnati game where Purdue couldn't stop the physical sub that came in and posted strong on the blocks may have needed a few tweaks as well. The press pitfalls are easy to notice, but they were not and would not be an issue with Ronnie although other things were. I happen to believe in the approaches towards basketball that Purdue plays. That is not to say that no adjustments could enhance the situation. I think Robbie's injuries and Purdue's budget set back what Matt had started with the baby boilers and I think overall Purdue has not had the talent that many Big teams do the last few years. None of this is to suggest that Purdue basketball couldn't improve, but I believe it is crucial to get better talent for improvement and in my ignorance (never been in THAT position) I don't have a good feel for the variables at play and what Matt can affect.

I see how long Matt has been on Kyle Young and now that he is moving up...MSU is interested. Purdue finds some before the others and the big boys steal them away and yet the big boys are living off seasons of superior talent or traditional hype in many ways. I thought Bo was great, but it took him several years to get Wisconsin where they had the talent they had last year. anyway, my biggest concern is talent level acquired....
 
Painter is currently the #17 highest rated paid coach in the country and the 4th highest in the B1G according to the NCAA tourney coaches for 2016. What Purdue is getting is exactly what they are paying for. Not sure how that can't be defined as anything more than average.

I am not going to compare every coach in college to what SHOULD happen at Purdue because to compare the coach at a place like Farleigh Dickinson is ridiculous. Farleigh could win 25 games and not win their conference tourney and be left out without a thought. If Purdue wins 25 games and they don't win the BTN, they are a lock. There is also no chance Farleigh Dickinson is getting players of the caliber of Swanigan, Haas, Edwards, or even Mathias and Cline.

According to his pay scale, Painter is doing exactly what is expected of him. An average coach with an average pay amount for P5 and other high level program coaches make. The issue is that you can only be average for so long before fans either expect more of you (this past season) or they lose interest. The problem right now is that fans are trying to decide if CMP will ever be able to get out of that puddle of mediocrity or if what happened last season is the standard...lots of regular season wins and an early exit from the NCAAT. I happen to think CMP needs to prove this season that he can take the talent he has and overachieve a bit and springboard that to a strong recruiting class for 2017 (top 20 class is what I would like to see). If that happens, by all means he deserves an extension. If the team fails to achieve something other than a top 5 finish in the conference and a first weekend exit in the tourney, that is probably what CMP can deliver throughout his career.

Also, I can name a number of different coaches that would jump immediately at the chance to coach at a place like Purdue who has top flight facilities for basketball in place and a solid tradition to build upon.
1. Cuonzo Martin
2. Cameron Dollar (Seattle University)
3. Steve Masiello (Manhattan)
4. Jack Murphy (Northern Arizona)
5. Dan Muller (Illinois State)

Obviously Martin and Murphy a little more proven than the others but I would be excited about all of these hires. Young coaches who, given the chance, would give Purdue roughly the same results as CMP has. I don't really get the argument that it can get much worse than CMP, but what he has given up to this point is very average with two really bad seasons. After 11 years, you kind of see what you are going to get with CMP so why not see what you could get with someone else that would probably return, at worst what CMP is already giving you...but you may just end up with a young coach who fits well in with what Purdue can offer and becomes a program that is competing every year for B1G titles and Sweet 16's...which would be an improvement from what CMP is giving the program now. The idea of it can get worse is just a silly argument as it is just as likely to be that much better as well...but more than likely would be just about the same. I'd be willing to give another coach 8-12 years to show he can get more if he is giving about the same results as Painter.

I'm not sure you could double Zo's money and he would come to Purdue...maybe earlier, but not now. he is sitting in a spot he likes a lot. Make me feel old you listing Dan Muller since I remember watching him play for the knights years ago...
 
Painter is currently the #17 highest rated paid coach in the country and the 4th highest in the B1G according to the NCAA tourney coaches for 2016. What Purdue is getting is exactly what they are paying for. Not sure how that can't be defined as anything more than average.

I am not going to compare every coach in college to what SHOULD happen at Purdue because to compare the coach at a place like Farleigh Dickinson is ridiculous. Farleigh could win 25 games and not win their conference tourney and be left out without a thought. If Purdue wins 25 games and they don't win the BTN, they are a lock. There is also no chance Farleigh Dickinson is getting players of the caliber of Swanigan, Haas, Edwards, or even Mathias and Cline.

According to his pay scale, Painter is doing exactly what is expected of him. An average coach with an average pay amount for P5 and other high level program coaches make. The issue is that you can only be average for so long before fans either expect more of you (this past season) or they lose interest. The problem right now is that fans are trying to decide if CMP will ever be able to get out of that puddle of mediocrity or if what happened last season is the standard...lots of regular season wins and an early exit from the NCAAT. I happen to think CMP needs to prove this season that he can take the talent he has and overachieve a bit and springboard that to a strong recruiting class for 2017 (top 20 class is what I would like to see). If that happens, by all means he deserves an extension. If the team fails to achieve something other than a top 5 finish in the conference and a first weekend exit in the tourney, that is probably what CMP can deliver throughout his career.

Also, I can name a number of different coaches that would jump immediately at the chance to coach at a place like Purdue who has top flight facilities for basketball in place and a solid tradition to build upon.
1. Cuonzo Martin
2. Cameron Dollar (Seattle University)
3. Steve Masiello (Manhattan)
4. Jack Murphy (Northern Arizona)
5. Dan Muller (Illinois State)

Obviously Martin and Murphy a little more proven than the others but I would be excited about all of these hires. Young coaches who, given the chance, would give Purdue roughly the same results as CMP has. I don't really get the argument that it can get much worse than CMP, but what he has given up to this point is very average with two really bad seasons. After 11 years, you kind of see what you are going to get with CMP so why not see what you could get with someone else that would probably return, at worst what CMP is already giving you...but you may just end up with a young coach who fits well in with what Purdue can offer and becomes a program that is competing every year for B1G titles and Sweet 16's...which would be an improvement from what CMP is giving the program now. The idea of it can get worse is just a silly argument as it is just as likely to be that much better as well...but more than likely would be just about the same. I'd be willing to give another coach 8-12 years to show he can get more if he is giving about the same results as Painter.
You suggest some names that have not been mentioned by others. I also don't agree with all of your positions but I like the fact you named some names! My biggest disagreement is with the bolded part of your post. You don't have to look any further than our own football program to see that isn't true. Our basketball program could be MUCH worse than it is now. I'm not saying that a new coach couldn't possibly do better, but then you have to also admit it could get worse.

I really don't think Martin is coming back to PU. I think he is establishing his own brand and identity away from PU. I have to admit I don't know anything about the other 4 you suggest. I will have to do some research to educate myself.
 
Painter is currently the #17 highest rated paid coach in the country and the 4th highest in the B1G according to the NCAA tourney coaches for 2016. What Purdue is getting is exactly what they are paying for. Not sure how that can't be defined as anything more than average.

I am not going to compare every coach in college to what SHOULD happen at Purdue because to compare the coach at a place like Farleigh Dickinson is ridiculous. Farleigh could win 25 games and not win their conference tourney and be left out without a thought. If Purdue wins 25 games and they don't win the BTN, they are a lock. There is also no chance Farleigh Dickinson is getting players of the caliber of Swanigan, Haas, Edwards, or even Mathias and Cline.

According to his pay scale, Painter is doing exactly what is expected of him. An average coach with an average pay amount for P5 and other high level program coaches make. The issue is that you can only be average for so long before fans either expect more of you (this past season) or they lose interest. The problem right now is that fans are trying to decide if CMP will ever be able to get out of that puddle of mediocrity or if what happened last season is the standard...lots of regular season wins and an early exit from the NCAAT. I happen to think CMP needs to prove this season that he can take the talent he has and overachieve a bit and springboard that to a strong recruiting class for 2017 (top 20 class is what I would like to see). If that happens, by all means he deserves an extension. If the team fails to achieve something other than a top 5 finish in the conference and a first weekend exit in the tourney, that is probably what CMP can deliver throughout his career.

Also, I can name a number of different coaches that would jump immediately at the chance to coach at a place like Purdue who has top flight facilities for basketball in place and a solid tradition to build upon.
1. Cuonzo Martin
2. Cameron Dollar (Seattle University)
3. Steve Masiello (Manhattan)
4. Jack Murphy (Northern Arizona)
5. Dan Muller (Illinois State)

Obviously Martin and Murphy a little more proven than the others but I would be excited about all of these hires. Young coaches who, given the chance, would give Purdue roughly the same results as CMP has. I don't really get the argument that it can get much worse than CMP, but what he has given up to this point is very average with two really bad seasons. After 11 years, you kind of see what you are going to get with CMP so why not see what you could get with someone else that would probably return, at worst what CMP is already giving you...but you may just end up with a young coach who fits well in with what Purdue can offer and becomes a program that is competing every year for B1G titles and Sweet 16's...which would be an improvement from what CMP is giving the program now. The idea of it can get worse is just a silly argument as it is just as likely to be that much better as well...but more than likely would be just about the same. I'd be willing to give another coach 8-12 years to show he can get more if he is giving about the same results as Painter.

I'm still on Painter's side of the fence but I'm really focused on his 2017 recruiting results. If he comes through with another core class (eg. top 20 as you say) I think we're set up for extended success and consistent tourney appearances. Even though we've been bitterly disappointed the last two years in the NCAA, I believe our best chance at success is just consistently getting in. I have no doubt that the current roster will be a top 20/25 team the next two years so the tourney should be a given. Beyond that, it's on Matt to close some of these 2017 targets. If he whiffs and we start regressing to the back half of the B1G and start missing the tourney again, I think we can start talking about making a change.
 
I'm still on Painter's side of the fence but I'm really focused on his 2017 recruiting results. If he comes through with another core class (eg. top 20 as you say) I think we're set up for extended success and consistent tourney appearances. Even though we've been bitterly disappointed the last two years in the NCAA, I believe our best chance at success is just consistently getting in. I have no doubt that the current roster will be a top 20/25 team the next two years so the tourney should be a given. Beyond that, it's on Matt to close some of these 2017 targets. If he whiffs and we start regressing to the back half of the B1G and start missing the tourney again, I think we can start talking about making a change.
This is exactly where I am at as well. 2017 could be make or break for Matt.
 
People on here are talking about making a change. Do you really think Mitch and the new A.D. will fire Painter? I am sure they are happy with were the program is at. They probably focus more on academics then winning championships. Just a fact.
 
Somebody remind of what Zo has done that is so much better than Painter. I don't recall him accomplishing that much.
:cool:
 
I'm still on Painter's side of the fence but I'm really focused on his 2017 recruiting results. If he comes through with another core class (eg. top 20 as you say) I think we're set up for extended success and consistent tourney appearances. Even though we've been bitterly disappointed the last two years in the NCAA, I believe our best chance at success is just consistently getting in. I have no doubt that the current roster will be a top 20/25 team the next two years so the tourney should be a given. Beyond that, it's on Matt to close some of these 2017 targets. If he whiffs and we start regressing to the back half of the B1G and start missing the tourney again, I think we can start talking about making a change.


Who do you believe they can get commitments from for 2017?
 
Thank you. After the LR loss I was definitely in the fire Painter group but I let myself cool a bit and figured he should be given time to show that what he has given can be bettered. I didn't call for him to be fired right now but over the next season or two along with a very important recruiting class (and a new AD), if CMP can't seem to get a bit over the hump then maybe it is in the best interest of the program to change directions with a new coach.
As others have said, I agree that the 2017 class is critical. I will add that the development of the players, especially Swanigan (if he comes back), V. Edwards, Haas, and Cline going into next year will make a big difference. I also look forward to seeing how Smotherman and Taylor handle more opportunities to play after going against very good talent every day for at least 2 years. Their time has come. Finally, I want to see how MP has developed. He is still young by coaching standards, and he has had some genuine "learning opportunities" the past few years.
 
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I'm telling you that there are few barriers to anyone having a great program anymore. There is so much more parity than there was 30 years ago. Tell me. No way do we land Big Dog in today's college basketball world.
That makes no sense. Big Dog was landed because Frank Kendrick and GK recruited their a$& off to get him. Much like CMP did to get Swanigan. If Wisconsin can go to bac to back FF, finish 4th or higher in every year under Bo and make an E8 with a team most thought wouldn't be in the tourney, there isn't that much parity.
 
That makes no sense. Big Dog was landed because Frank Kendrick and GK recruited their a$& off to get him. Much like CMP did to get Swanigan. If Wisconsin can go to bac to back FF, finish 4th or higher in every year under Bo and make an E8 with a team most thought wouldn't be in the tourney, there isn't that much parity.

They made it to the Sweet 16 (lost to Notre Dame in the final seconds), but I understand what you mean.
 
That makes no sense. Big Dog was landed because Frank Kendrick and GK recruited their a$& off to get him. Much like CMP did to get Swanigan. If Wisconsin can go to bac to back FF, finish 4th or higher in every year under Bo and make an E8 with a team most thought wouldn't be in the tourney, there isn't that much parity.

Purdue would not land the top player in the country in today's college basketball landscape. That is the point.

And there is a ton more parity than there was in the 80's. It is like night and day. I think your Wisconsin example illustrated that.
 
Painter is currently the #17 highest rated paid coach in the country and the 4th highest in the B1G according to the NCAA tourney coaches for 2016. What Purdue is getting is exactly what they are paying for. Not sure how that can't be defined as anything more than average.

I am not going to compare every coach in college to what SHOULD happen at Purdue because to compare the coach at a place like Farleigh Dickinson is ridiculous. Farleigh could win 25 games and not win their conference tourney and be left out without a thought. If Purdue wins 25 games and they don't win the BTN, they are a lock. There is also no chance Farleigh Dickinson is getting players of the caliber of Swanigan, Haas, Edwards, or even Mathias and Cline.

According to his pay scale, Painter is doing exactly what is expected of him. An average coach with an average pay amount for P5 and other high level program coaches make. The issue is that you can only be average for so long before fans either expect more of you (this past season) or they lose interest. The problem right now is that fans are trying to decide if CMP will ever be able to get out of that puddle of mediocrity or if what happened last season is the standard...lots of regular season wins and an early exit from the NCAAT. I happen to think CMP needs to prove this season that he can take the talent he has and overachieve a bit and springboard that to a strong recruiting class for 2017 (top 20 class is what I would like to see). If that happens, by all means he deserves an extension. If the team fails to achieve something other than a top 5 finish in the conference and a first weekend exit in the tourney, that is probably what CMP can deliver throughout his career.

Also, I can name a number of different coaches that would jump immediately at the chance to coach at a place like Purdue who has top flight facilities for basketball in place and a solid tradition to build upon.
1. Cuonzo Martin
2. Cameron Dollar (Seattle University)
3. Steve Masiello (Manhattan)
4. Jack Murphy (Northern Arizona)
5. Dan Muller (Illinois State)

Obviously Martin and Murphy a little more proven than the others but I would be excited about all of these hires. Young coaches who, given the chance, would give Purdue roughly the same results as CMP has. I don't really get the argument that it can get much worse than CMP, but what he has given up to this point is very average with two really bad seasons. After 11 years, you kind of see what you are going to get with CMP so why not see what you could get with someone else that would probably return, at worst what CMP is already giving you...but you may just end up with a young coach who fits well in with what Purdue can offer and becomes a program that is competing every year for B1G titles and Sweet 16's...which would be an improvement from what CMP is giving the program now. The idea of it can get worse is just a silly argument as it is just as likely to be that much better as well...but more than likely would be just about the same. I'd be willing to give another coach 8-12 years to show he can get more if he is giving about the same results as Painter.

What exactly have any of the coaches you mentioned done better than Painter? Painter has a career 64% win percentage at Purdue, after taking over for Keady's during a really bad stretch. While coaching in the toughest conference in the NCAA.

Cameron Dollar has 2 winning seasons in 7 at Seattle. Has a career 43.7% win percentage. And is only 5 years younger than Painter.

I love Cuonzo as much as any Purdue fan (he's probably my 2nd favorite Boiler basketball player of all time), but he's done nothing to prove he's better than Painter. Only a career 60.4% win percantage with only 2 NCAA Appearances in 8 years as a HC. He had 2 top 8 players in the country, and still had a worse record than Painter. They were gifted a 4 Seed and lost by 11 points to #13 Seed Hawaii. And he's only 1 year younger than Painter.

Steve Masiello has a career 56.4% win percentage at Manhattan. Made the NCAA twice in 5 years. Has never won his conference. Though he has won the conference tournament twice. He's only 7 years younger than Painter.

Jack Murphy has a 40.9% career win percentage in his 4 years at N.Arizona. Has 1 winning season. Hasn't never smelled a tournament except 1 year in the CIT. He's 9 years younger than Painter. So the jury is still out on him. But so far, not so exciting.

Dan Muller has a career 56.7% win percentage in 4 years at Illinois St. Hasn't been to a NCAA tournament year. In his first year, he took over a team that was a NIT participant and lead them to a worse record and no tournament. Has gone to a CBI and an NIT though. He's only 5 years younger than Painter.

So these guys aren't much younger than Painter and are worse at coaching. Of course they'd jump at coming to Purdue. But why would we want them? I think people always think the grass is always greener and that just isn't the case.
 
What exactly have any of the coaches you mentioned done better than Painter? Painter has a career 64% win percentage at Purdue, after taking over for Keady's during a really bad stretch. While coaching in the toughest conference in the NCAA.

Cameron Dollar has 2 winning seasons in 7 at Seattle. Has a career 43.7% win percentage. And is only 5 years younger than Painter.

I love Cuonzo as much as any Purdue fan (he's probably my 2nd favorite Boiler basketball player of all time), but he's done nothing to prove he's better than Painter. Only a career 60.4% win percantage with only 2 NCAA Appearances in 8 years as a HC. He had 2 top 8 players in the country, and still had a worse record than Painter. They were gifted a 4 Seed and lost by 11 points to #13 Seed Hawaii. And he's only 1 year younger than Painter.

Steve Masiello has a career 56.4% win percentage at Manhattan. Made the NCAA twice in 5 years. Has never won his conference. Though he has won the conference tournament twice. He's only 7 years younger than Painter.

Jack Murphy has a 40.9% career win percentage in his 4 years at N.Arizona. Has 1 winning season. Hasn't never smelled a tournament except 1 year in the CIT. He's 9 years younger than Painter. So the jury is still out on him. But so far, not so exciting.

Dan Muller has a career 56.7% win percentage in 4 years at Illinois St. Hasn't been to a NCAA tournament year. In his first year, he took over a team that was a NIT participant and lead them to a worse record and no tournament. Has gone to a CBI and an NIT though. He's only 5 years younger than Painter.

So these guys aren't much younger than Painter and are worse at coaching. Of course they'd jump at coming to Purdue. But why would we want them? I think people always think the grass is always greener and that just isn't the case.
Thank you for doing this research. My gut told me those were what research would find (mor or less), but just not worth it to me to find out. None of it will happen... but good to see clearly now.
 
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I like Travesty13's response. The fact is there are few coaches that have demonstrated a better record than Painter over time. especially if you look at the population of those coaches that might be available and are young in their career. If you remove the 2 bad years and look at where he is right now, there are very few coaches, of those available, who have proven better.

Has anyone noticed that the nay-sayers have moved from "Painter is a terrible coach" to a more moderate position of "Painter is just an average coach"? They are struggling just a bit proving it to the rest of us. That said, they are certainly welcome to have that opinion. However, I think I will let the facts speak for themselves and hold my own opinion on the subject.
 
Purdue would not land the top player in the country in today's college basketball landscape. That is the point.

And there is a ton more parity than there was in the 80's. It is like night and day. I think your Wisconsin example illustrated that.
They landed the 9th best this year. By the way, Glenn was not the top basketball player in the county that year. Chris Weber was ranked #1. But okay, I'm starting to like your confidence in CMP.
 
That makes no sense. Big Dog was landed because Frank Kendrick and GK recruited their a$& off to get him. Much like CMP did to get Swanigan. If Wisconsin can go to bac to back FF, finish 4th or higher in every year under Bo and make an E8 with a team most thought wouldn't be in the tourney, there isn't that much parity.

in addition to the Frank and Gene comments above. Brandon Brantley was a good friend of Robinson's and played with him on the same AAU team (along with Alan Henderson and Matt Waddell). When Brandon committed to Purdue that enhanced it for Glenn as well. The region has always been friendly towards Purdue. Brandon's high school coach was Bob Buscher who used to coach at Clinton Central in the late 70's early 80's and sent his son (Brett) to Purdue along with Carson Cunningham later on. Matt being on the team and committing to Purdue was somewhat of a sweep. Matt's dad Phil, was leaning towards UCLA for Matt and his mother (Jane) was in for Purdue. Phil was coaching with Larry Angle at the time in Tipton and Larry was a frat brother of Harrick's at UCLA...hence the connection. Sometimes recruiting is just not all on a coach...not that you implied such... :)
 
They landed the 9th best this year. By the way, Glenn was not the top basketball player in the county that year. Chris Weber was ranked #1. But okay, I'm starting to like your confidence in CMP.
THAT was the year noted for power forwards. I do think Glenn got 1 or co - in one publication, but Webber had the highest profile...
 
I like Travesty13's response. The fact is there are few coaches that have demonstrated a better record than Painter over time. especially if you look at the population of those coaches that might be available and are young in their career. If you remove the 2 bad years and look at where he is right now, there are very few coaches, of those available, who have proven better.

Has anyone noticed that the nay-sayers have moved from "Painter is a terrible coach" to a more moderate position of "Painter is just an average coach"? They are struggling just a bit proving it to the rest of us. That said, they are certainly welcome to have that opinion. However, I think I will let the facts speak for themselves and hold my own opinion on the subject.
Please post these "facts" you are refering to. I would love to see how "few of coaches" there are. Also, I don't think any of us have changed our opinion of CMP. There are not games going on right now. As most of us have stated. He's a terrible game coach, his recruiting is above average, which makes him pretty much an average coach. If he were a good game coach, we would be much better than we are on game day & not be consistently giving up double digit leads only to lose.
 
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What exactly have any of the coaches you mentioned done better than Painter? Painter has a career 64% win percentage at Purdue, after taking over for Keady's during a really bad stretch. While coaching in the toughest conference in the NCAA.

Cameron Dollar has 2 winning seasons in 7 at Seattle. Has a career 43.7% win percentage. And is only 5 years younger than Painter.

I love Cuonzo as much as any Purdue fan (he's probably my 2nd favorite Boiler basketball player of all time), but he's done nothing to prove he's better than Painter. Only a career 60.4% win percantage with only 2 NCAA Appearances in 8 years as a HC. He had 2 top 8 players in the country, and still had a worse record than Painter. They were gifted a 4 Seed and lost by 11 points to #13 Seed Hawaii. And he's only 1 year younger than Painter.

Steve Masiello has a career 56.4% win percentage at Manhattan. Made the NCAA twice in 5 years. Has never won his conference. Though he has won the conference tournament twice. He's only 7 years younger than Painter.

Jack Murphy has a 40.9% career win percentage in his 4 years at N.Arizona. Has 1 winning season. Hasn't never smelled a tournament except 1 year in the CIT. He's 9 years younger than Painter. So the jury is still out on him. But so far, not so exciting.

Dan Muller has a career 56.7% win percentage in 4 years at Illinois St. Hasn't been to a NCAA tournament year. In his first year, he took over a team that was a NIT participant and lead them to a worse record and no tournament. Has gone to a CBI and an NIT though. He's only 5 years younger than Painter.

So these guys aren't much younger than Painter and are worse at coaching. Of course they'd jump at coming to Purdue. But why would we want them? I think people always think the grass is always greener and that just isn't the case.
I'm just a little perplexed in what specific things (other than desired results) people dislike about Matt or real indicators he isn't doing the job. perhaps in a few years it may be more noticeable to me?
 
in addition to the Frank and Gene comments above. Brandon Brantley was a good friend of Robinson's and played with him on the same AAU team (along with Alan Henderson and Matt Waddell). When Brandon committed to Purdue that enhanced it for Glenn as well. The region has always been friendly towards Purdue. Brandon's high school coach was Bob Buscher who used to coach at Clinton Central in the late 70's early 80's and sent his son (Brett) to Purdue along with Carson Cunningham later on. Matt being on the team and committing to Purdue was somewhat of a sweep. Matt's dad Phil, was leaning towards UCLA for Matt and his mother (Jane) was in for Purdue. Phil was coaching with Larry Angle at the time in Tipton and Larry was a frat brother of Harrick's at UCLA...hence the connection. Sometimes recruiting is just not all on a coach...not that you implied such... :)
Brandon & Glenn are distant cousins
 
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in addition to the Frank and Gene comments above. Brandon Brantley was a good friend of Robinson's and played with him on the same AAU team (along with Alan Henderson and Matt Waddell). When Brandon committed to Purdue that enhanced it for Glenn as well. The region has always been friendly towards Purdue. Brandon's high school coach was Bob Buscher who used to coach at Clinton Central in the late 70's early 80's and sent his son (Brett) to Purdue along with Carson Cunningham later on. Matt being on the team and committing to Purdue was somewhat of a sweep. Matt's dad Phil, was leaning towards UCLA for Matt and his mother (Jane) was in for Purdue. Phil was coaching with Larry Angle at the time in Tipton and Larry was a frat brother of Harrick's at UCLA...hence the connection. Sometimes recruiting is just not all on a coach...not that you implied such... :)
I also think that was part of the thinking into getting Glenn. It's not secret if you want to land a player, you find out who he wants to play with. Getting Brandon was probably part of the strategy. Plus, Brandon was B1G quality. Sometimes I wonder if CMP did the same in getting PJ.
 
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Please post these "facts" you are refering to. I would love to see how "few of coaches" there are. Also, I don't think any of us have changed our opinion of CMP. There are not games going on right now. As most of us have stated. He's a terrible game coach, his recruiting is above average, which makes him pretty much an average coach. If he were a good game coach, we would be much better than we are on game day & not be consistently giving up double digit leads only to lose.

others do share you opinion of Matt's in game coaching. Still, that is in stark contrast to Lee Rose that took Purdue to the NCAA tourney final four. Lee was noted for making his decisions upon various situations BEFORE the game started and then to implement according to his before game decisions, Lee felt he would make better decisions outside the heat of the moment and just went with the odds he determined. Personally, I see merit in Lee's thoughts but do not share a wish for a coach to do that..even though he did. I prefer adjustments based upon the heat of the moment as I do think statistics has a place, but a "feel" for the game appears to me to be more important.
 
I also think that was part of the thinking into getting Glenn. It's not secret if you want to land a player, you find out who he wants to play with. Getting Brandon was probably part of the strategy. Plus, Brandon was B1G quality. Sometimes I wonder if CMP did the same in getting PJ.
true and not only did PJ fill a last second position...but if PJ has a nice ride at Purdue it has to help with Isiah...
 
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That is fair. I believe many think in his early years he exceeded expectations in the tourney. I also understand what you say about potential NBA players. However, there were more than three teams with more talent than Purdue in the BIG and the rule changes effected the last two years moved the lean to offensive perimeter players. The unbalanced schedule is a problem all the way around for ranking within the conference. That not happening and IU probably doesn't win the league and tie Purdue for most league wins. Hate to admit it but it has been forty years since I graduated from Purdue and I go back a little over a decade before that watching Butler. During those years the tourney has grown in hype and the rules have eliminated much at the disposal of coaches. I hate the shot clock as much as anything.

The last two years have provided difficult endings...primarily meltdowns that left a bad taste in many a mouth. Course Ronnie Johnson made coaching look much better against a press and so the players at disposal do in fact change what you can do as the other team has a say in how effective the x and o's are. Confounded in the last two years meltdowns against the press is the inability to separate the abilities of players relative to execution and problematic approaches to zone presses, man presses and run and jump. That said, I think the VCU game was his biggest mistake and it was in the half court D. I think the Cincinnati game where Purdue couldn't stop the physical sub that came in and posted strong on the blocks may have needed a few tweaks as well. The press pitfalls are easy to notice, but they were not and would not be an issue with Ronnie although other things were. I happen to believe in the approaches towards basketball that Purdue plays. That is not to say that no adjustments could enhance the situation. I think Robbie's injuries and Purdue's budget set back what Matt had started with the baby boilers and I think overall Purdue has not had the talent that many Big teams do the last few years. None of this is to suggest that Purdue basketball couldn't improve, but I believe it is crucial to get better talent for improvement and in my ignorance (never been in THAT position) I don't have a good feel for the variables at play and what Matt can affect.

I see how long Matt has been on Kyle Young and now that he is moving up...MSU is interested. Purdue finds some before the others and the big boys steal them away and yet the big boys are living off seasons of superior talent or traditional hype in many ways. I thought Bo was great, but it took him several years to get Wisconsin where they had the talent they had last year. anyway, my biggest concern is talent level acquired....
Like I said, it's more about CMP's game day coaching rather than his recruiting. I think Purdue has had more talent under his tenure, than GK had. Yet GK did much more than CMP has been able to. It all comes down to the fact that CMP has 1 game plan & it's not going to change come hell or high water. Purdue has become very easy to scout, because they never throw anything new at an opponent. I also disagree if you are telling me that more than 3 teams had more talent than Purdue this year. The only team I thought had more talent, was Maryland. MSU showed early in the B1G, they were reliant on 1 player.
 
others do share you opinion of Matt's in game coaching. Still, that is in stark contrast to Lee Rose that took Purdue to the NCAA tourney final four. Lee was noted for making his decisions upon various situations BEFORE the game started and then to implement according to his before game decisions, Lee felt he would make better decisions outside the heat of the moment and just went with the odds he determined. Personally, I see merit in Lee's thoughts but do not share a wish for a coach to do that..even though he did. I prefer adjustments based upon the heat of the moment as I do think statistics has a place, but a "feel" for the game appears to me to be more important.
I agree with you on Lee Rose, but the difference is he did not use the same strategy every game. His strategy was for an opponent. Matt's is for what we do best and if the other team takes it away... game over. I think most teams played us this year thinking they could try to take away the inside and make us win on the perimeter... knowing if that didn't work, they would abandon that & press, knowing that would work & it did.
 
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Like I said, it's more about CMP's game day coaching rather than his recruiting. I think Purdue has had more talent under his tenure, than GK had. Yet GK did much more than CMP has been able to. It all comes down to the fact that CMP has 1 game plan & it's not going to change come hell or high water. Purdue has become very easy to scout, because they never throw anything new at an opponent. I also disagree if you are telling me that more than 3 teams had more talent than Purdue this year. The only team I thought had more talent, was Maryland. MSU showed early in the B1G, they were reliant on 1 player.

Well I think the last two years are night and day different due to rules than the previous years and comparing Gene and Matt must be under that light. I personally think Gene was more predictable since he ran more sets. Matt runs motion which is a read offense meaning scouting then becomes more tendencies and player strengths since the positions of all players and ball could be the same and yet the player with the ball could do a few different things. Now Matt does run a few sets, but not as many as I recall Gene doing. Gene wrote about his "flexible offense" meaning others could score as well...but Gene was more predictable...and in some cases that led to more efficiency although Matt's offense over the years has been pretty effective if he had decent players. both coaches played man, rarely zoned in the half court or full or played man press. The main difference between Gene and Matt on the D was the shift over the years to less physical defense...the coaching opportunities lessened (reduced shot clock) and the gradual shift from post to perimeter importance as well as athleticism...not that skill and post play are not important because they are...but weighted differently due to the last two years rules. Ohio state started two players (lyle,diop) Purdue wanted more than any Purdue player other than biggie, Maryland was loaded. MSU had talent, IU had talent, Ill had talent but injuries, Iowa had a lot of talent, but ran out of steam and press effectiveness as the season wore on. Although I think Purdue could and should have done better...many people that follow "several" teams closely didn't think Purdue had about enough talent to finish lower than they did. I really liked the makeup of the Purdue team but individual talent was probably better at other big schools that Purdue finished above. A dynamite player with fully competent players that fit well can be pretty good and I do think MSU had more than one. Most people wanted Eron to transfer to Purdue and the the other guard for MSU was arguably a better shooter than anyone this year for Purdue..two solid decent athletic 5's shored up the boards, ran the court and were quick enough to deny some post feeds....MSU wasn't hurting for talent.

Still, I know everyone has opinions and the basis for those opinions lead to different conclusions. No question some posters agree with you.
 
I agree with you on Lee Rose, but the difference is he did not use the same strategy every game. His strategy was for an opponent. Matt's is for what we do best and if the other team takes it away... game over. I think most teams played us this year thinking they could try to take away the inside and make us win on the perimeter... knowing if that didn't work, they would abandon that & press, knowing that would work & it did.

If you can't break a press then you can't break a press. Sometimes the adjustment that needs to be made is that you need to get better players or your players have to learn how to handle situations better. This year our guards lacked athleticism and experience and that hurt us greatly in many of those situations.

Next year we should have some more experience and C. Edwards might make us a little more athletic but losing Davis and Hammons creates additional holes to fill. I actually think we will be pretty poor defensively.
 
I agree with you on Lee Rose, but the difference is he did not use the same strategy every game. His strategy was for an opponent. Matt's is for what we do best and if the other team takes it away... game over. I think most teams played us this year thinking they could try to take away the inside and make us win on the perimeter... knowing if that didn't work, they would abandon that & press, knowing that would work & it did.
no question there were Achilles Heels in Purdue. Again, if Ronnie were at Purdue NO press would be effective, but other issues would and did crop up. Post feed denial is easier with the reduced shot clock than a few years ago. Most teams knew that Purdue's inside play was the key to beating Purdue and so they did want to take that away...no question. Some teams were better suited to do that than others...and all those teams had to be good enough to score on the other end and create some mental pressure on Purdue's perimeter players or Purdue would soon get in a flow on the perimeter. Another year and I expect Purdue to be better on that end next year.

I would have preferred a few different approaches by employing some more screening to full court odd front zones on the trigger man as well as 1/2 to 3/4 court odd front zones on that same front. However, I wonder if the "press" was more of a mental thing for the "particular" Purdue players than what we will see next year or perhaps in the future. Those seniors spent their first two years getting beaten down and you never know how much confidence is lost from that, not how much confidence is when you always win. sometimes the expectation manifests itself into results it seems...
 
What exactly have any of the coaches you mentioned done better than Painter? Painter has a career 64% win percentage at Purdue, after taking over for Keady's during a really bad stretch. While coaching in the toughest conference in the NCAA.

Cameron Dollar has 2 winning seasons in 7 at Seattle. Has a career 43.7% win percentage. And is only 5 years younger than Painter.

I love Cuonzo as much as any Purdue fan (he's probably my 2nd favorite Boiler basketball player of all time), but he's done nothing to prove he's better than Painter. Only a career 60.4% win percantage with only 2 NCAA Appearances in 8 years as a HC. He had 2 top 8 players in the country, and still had a worse record than Painter. They were gifted a 4 Seed and lost by 11 points to #13 Seed Hawaii. And he's only 1 year younger than Painter.

Steve Masiello has a career 56.4% win percentage at Manhattan. Made the NCAA twice in 5 years. Has never won his conference. Though he has won the conference tournament twice. He's only 7 years younger than Painter.

Jack Murphy has a 40.9% career win percentage in his 4 years at N.Arizona. Has 1 winning season. Hasn't never smelled a tournament except 1 year in the CIT. He's 9 years younger than Painter. So the jury is still out on him. But so far, not so exciting.

Dan Muller has a career 56.7% win percentage in 4 years at Illinois St. Hasn't been to a NCAA tournament year. In his first year, he took over a team that was a NIT participant and lead them to a worse record and no tournament. Has gone to a CBI and an NIT though. He's only 5 years younger than Painter.

So these guys aren't much younger than Painter and are worse at coaching. Of course they'd jump at coming to Purdue. But why would we want them? I think people always think the grass is always greener and that just isn't the case.

Those are true but I was looking at guys who have had some success at lower level schools that would jump at the chance to come to Purdue who would more than likely do just about the same as Painter has done. Painter is, as I stated, and above average coach who can garner wins during the regular season but has trouble pushing the program to the next level (1 co-regular season championship and 1 BTT). You don't think a guy like Cuonzo, Mullen, Dollar couldn't do that as well...since in Painter's 11 years he has missed the tourney 3 times...that means Painter is missing the tourney over a quarter of the time.

No where in my post did I say that Painter should be fired but if what we have seen through hist 11 seasons at Purdue are what he can do, the program may be better off finding a replacement in the near future. I stated that this upcoming season Painter needs to show his team can over-achieve a bit and parlay that in to a good recruiting class in 2017. If he can do both those things, he should be given more time to build upon this past season and next. However, what if Purdue wins 20+ games and gets beat in the opening weekend the next two season? What would you say then?
 
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I'm just a little perplexed in what specific things (other than desired results) people dislike about Matt or real indicators he isn't doing the job. perhaps in a few years it may be more noticeable to me?
IMHO (and you all know I hate OPINIONS!), the core of every dislike is that people thought our talent level was far higher this year than it truly was. Change the expectations, and one or two games (and don't get started on not judging on one game - I totally agree) and there would not have been 1,782,462 words written about Painter's coaching. The result of every expectation is frustration. No expectations=no frustrations.

We can rant all day about the best front court or how Ray wasn't as good after the injury or that Vince didn't do something we expected he would, but the bottom line is that after a really good start of the season, people thought we were great when we were really only the 12th best team in the country, and lost a game we should not have. I like simplicity.
 
... what if Purdue wins 20+ games and gets beat in the opening weekend the next two season? What would you say then?
The problem with answering this is that we don't know our seed, the other team (matchup), if we get a player who takes a strong leadership role (and I don't think a coach can force that to happen), who leaves to the NBA, how C Edwards develops possible injuries, etc. It's not that hard to win 20 games with some of those problems lurking around. Look at Villanova's past six years. Pretty similar questions could be posed for them. And we all know the end of that saga.

Let me be clear, I definitely want to see some changes/improvements in things I consider coach-based. And those will move me toward how I feel far more than the limited scope of your question.
 
I like Travesty13's response. The fact is there are few coaches that have demonstrated a better record than Painter over time. especially if you look at the population of those coaches that might be available and are young in their career. If you remove the 2 bad years and look at where he is right now, there are very few coaches, of those available, who have proven better.

Has anyone noticed that the nay-sayers have moved from "Painter is a terrible coach" to a more moderate position of "Painter is just an average coach"? They are struggling just a bit proving it to the rest of us. That said, they are certainly welcome to have that opinion. However, I think I will let the facts speak for themselves and hold my own opinion on the subject.

I've been consistently critical of Painter for years, and I have consistently called him average and mediocre. I've never said he was terrible, although he has had some terrible years and terrible recruiting classes. Who is it that went from calling him terrible to average? I think folks have been pretty consistent overall in their assessment of CMP, outside of a handful of lunatics on either side of the argument.
 
Please post these "facts" you are refering to. I would love to see how "few of coaches" there are. Also, I don't think any of us have changed our opinion of CMP. There are not games going on right now. As most of us have stated. He's a terrible game coach, his recruiting is above average, which makes him pretty much an average coach. If he were a good game coach, we would be much better than we are on game day & not be consistently giving up double digit leads only to lose.

I'll help him out with the facts you requested. Painter is #143 ALL-TIME in win percentage. Here's a list of the active coaches that have a better win percentage than him.

4. Mark Few .8076
10. Roy Williams .7893
15. John Calipari .7797
17. Mike Krzyzewski .7647
23. Bill Self .7590
26. Thad Matta .7522
29. Rick Pitino .7423
30. Dave Rose .7408
31. Sean Miller .7404
32. Jim Boeheim .7403
38. Larry Brown .7305
41. Jamie Dixon .7273
51. Tom Izzo .7188
52. Gregg Marshall .7162
55. Bo Ryan .7151 *No longer active, but included him since he coached this year*
68. Bob Huggins
.7084
87. Tony Bennett .6903
88. Randy Bennett .6880
114. Tubby Smith .6687
115. Steve Fisher .6667
122. Mike Brey .6652
127. Jay Wright .6630
138. Gene Keady .6555 *included to show where the guy Painter replaced is ranked*
140. John Thompson .6548
143. Matt Painter .6542
*Kevin Ollie has a career .688 win percentage, but wasn't on the list since he's only coached 4 years* I included him because he has a Championship.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/win-loss-pct-coach-career.html

That puts Painter 24th, not including Keady or Ryan who I included, and also behind Ollie who isn't on the list, of all active coaches.

The only coaches with NCAA Championships in that list are Calipri (6 Final Fours/1 Championships), Coach K (12 FFs/5 Championships), Self (2 FFs/1 Championships), Pitino (7 FFs/2 Championships), Boehim (5 FFs/1 Championship), Brown (3 FFs/1 Championship), Izzo (7 FFs/1 Championship), Smith (1 FFs/1 Championship), Fisher (3 FFs/1 Championship), Ollie (1 FFs/1 Championships), and now Wright (2 FFs/1 Championship). No one lower than Painter has an NCAA Championship. So only 11 Head Coaches, in all of College Basketball, have a Championship.

Few, Rose, Miller, Dixon, Tony Bennett, Randy Bennett, and Brey along with Painter have 0 Final Fours or Championships. So 7 of the 24 best active coaches haven't even been to a Final Four.

Those are facts.
 
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As frustrating (at times) as it has been to be a Purdue fan (30+ years watching), I must admit, it's pretty AWESOME how passionate our fan base is. There is no denying our base. It's late April and we can have a hotly debated thread about recruiting offers, how we look next year, how the offense/defense we compare (next year vs this year), etc. Most message boards are completely vacant this time of year, yet here we are in good numbers discussing a wide variety of topics. When I think of how much our base would enjoy and appreciate a Final Four, it gives me chills.

We have those in the pro-Painter camp and those that want to see a change in direction. There are those in the middle waiting to see how things unfold in the next year or so before seeing which camp they want to be in.

To me, I can see the argument on both sides. I do think Painter is a good coach. I think he will continue to win a good number of games and he's brought the program to a pretty good place from the late Keady years. The talent we have been getting the last couple years has improved. We probably won't have those last place finishes that we had a couple years ago and will solidly be in that upper half of the B1G with an occasional shot at the title. We will make the tourney most years. For many programs, that's a good place to be. Some worry that the next coach won't be as successful (see football program), so let's count our blessings with what we have. I get that.

Then there are those that are frustrated and teased by the talented teams we put together every 4-6 years or so that no one can deny has the potential to go deep in the tourney - only to come up short. These are teams that aren't easy to put together, so kudos to Painter for assembling them in the first place. Keady did this throughout his tenure (except for the last few years). These teams excite our fan base like an assembled mass of high octane fireworks, only to not have the fuse lit. When they fall short against the fan base's expectation, fans question Painter, who while a good coach, hasn't shown that his best teams can put it together in the NCAA, a single game elimination event - where an off night by even a great team can mean it's all over. Those fans don't believe Painter will ever take us to a Final Four. So, let's roll the dice with someone who might. If you are afraid to go for a higher ceiling with another coach, then be happy with the status quo for the last 11 years. Let's find the right guy.

I think Painter is a good coach. He knows his X's and O's (at least in terms of motion offense and man-to-man defense). For the most part, he builds a good game plan against an opposing team. He's good with the media (though some may argue he puts too much blame on the players). He represents the university well. Over his 11 years, his teams represent the university well (not getting into trouble and shenanigans).

I think where I personally find his weaknesses are in some softer skills and his stubbornness. To me, like the Cincinnati game and the Little Rock game, it wasn't so much that they lost, it was HOW they lost. It was the lack of aggressiveness/confidence, the lack of belief, the deer-in-the-headlights look on most of his guys. I think players pick up the demeanor of the coach and I think the last couple years Painter gets tight in the big game and the players follow suit. I think he has such control over his players and teams - it seems that they care much more of his approval than sometimes the outcome of the game. Don't screw up, do exactly what he wants. If we do what he wants, we'll be fine. It's like they forget there's a game on the court to win. Then, in crunch time, when a player needs to be aggressive and go for the win and attack the defense, or react to a game situation that just isn't written up on Painter's (or any coaches) whiteboard, they just don't have it in them - it's like they been overcoached or conditioned to be like this. I think those here (correct me if I'm wrong) want to see a new direction with Cuonzo or others listed in the thread because they want a coach who has the potential to bring in the same or higher level recruits and build that belief.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15356168/brad-stevens-next-superstar-head-coach

I'm not comparing Painter to Stevens, but in the article above, Steven's talks about a circumstance that I think appiles to Painter in my book:

"In his first season at Butler, Stevens started 8-0, but the ninth game was at Wright State, a notoriously difficult road venue. The young coach fretted about it for days. When game time arrived, Stevens snapped at his players, he harangued the officials, and his team departed a 43-42 loser. As he reviewed the game film late into the night, hoping to decipher why his team, which typically scored in the 60s, had struggled, the answer became obvious.

"I'm watching and thinking, 'Well, no wonder they were tight. I was tight,'" Stevens recalls.

From that moment on, he vowed he would never lose another game because he was on edge."

My only other minor gripe from Painter would be to close the deal in recruiting on a semi dynamic guard (shoot and dribble drive). He's had one (Etwaun Moore) who was excellent from Day 1. I don't see why a guard like that wouldn't want to come to Purdue. Others have indicated some guards are put off by the strict motion offense that he runs that takes away freedom and dynamic from a really good guard. If he can fix these 2 things (the tightness and guard situation), then I think he could be the guy to get us to a Final Four. If not, then I think a search committee needs to look for a coach who has these types of qualities and make a change.
 
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IMHO (and you all know I hate OPINIONS!), the core of every dislike is that people thought our talent level was far higher this year than it truly was. Change the expectations, and one or two games (and don't get started on not judging on one game - I totally agree) and there would not have been 1,782,462 words written about Painter's coaching. The result of every expectation is frustration. No expectations=no frustrations.

We can rant all day about the best front court or how Ray wasn't as good after the injury or that Vince didn't do something we expected he would, but the bottom line is that after a really good start of the season, people thought we were great when we were really only the 12th best team in the country, and lost a game we should not have. I like simplicity.

Overall, we had very good talent last season but it was significantly out of balance. For example, I would be willing to trade Biggie and Haas (from last year) for an average B1G back up center and a dynamic lead guard (eg. Van Fleet). I think our season would have ended on a more pleasant note. Much of the success of the Baby Boilers had to do with talent balance.
 
I'll help him out with the facts you requested. Painter is #143 ALL-TIME in win percentage. Here's a list of the active coaches that have a better win percentage than him.

4. Mark Few .8076
10. Roy Williams .7893
15. John Calipari .7797
17. Mike Krzyzewski .7647
23. Bill Self .7590
26. Thad Matta .7522
29. Rick Pitino .7423
30. Dave Rose .7408
31. Sean Miller .7404
32. Jim Boeheim .7403
38. Larry Brown .7305
41. Jamie Dixon .7273
51. Tom Izzo .7188
52. Gregg Marshall .7162
55. Bo Ryan .7151 *No longer active, but included him since he coached this year*
68. Bob Huggins
.7084
87. Tony Bennett .6903
88. Randy Bennett .6880
114. Tubby Smith .6687
115. Steve Fisher .6667
122. Mike Brey .6652
127. Jay Wright .6630
138. Gene Keady .6555 *included to show where the guy Painter replaced is ranked*
140. John Thompson .6548
143. Matt Painter .6542
*Kevin Ollie has a career .688 win percentage, but wasn't on the list since he's only coached 4 years* I included him because he has a Championship.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/win-loss-pct-coach-career.html

That puts Painter 24th, not including Keady or Ryan who I included, and also behind Ollie who isn't on the list, of all active coaches.

The only coaches with NCAA Championships in that list are Calipri (6 Final Fours/1 Championships), Coach K (12 FFs/5 Championships), Self (2 FFs/1 Championships), Pitino (7 FFs/2 Championships), Boehim (5 FFs/1 Championship), Brown (3 FFs/1 Championship), Izzo (7 FFs/1 Championship), Smith (1 FFs/1 Championship), Fisher (3 FFs/1 Championship), Ollie (1 FFs/1 Championships), and now Wright (2 FFs/1 Championship). No one lower than Painter has an NCAA Championship. So only 11 Head Coaches, in all of College Basketball, have a Championship.

Few, Rose, Miller, Dixon, Tony Bennett, Randy Bennett, and Brey along with Painter have 0 Final Fours or Championships. So 7 of the 24 best active coaches haven't even been to a Final Four.

Those are facts.
That list must be of coaches with 10 or more years, because I can name several that have a much better win percentage than CMP, starting with Chris Beard and Shaka Smart
 
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