Mueller indicts 12 Russians in 2016 DNC hack
- Thread starter indy35
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Since Clinton signed nafta the share of gdp growth of the bottom 90%, which was 70% in 1972... went to 0%.
Protectionism ends up meaning “protectionism of working Americans to share in greater production AT ALL.”
Most of the people voting for trump or who would be receptive to trump know this even if they can’t put their finger on it...
Shut your fing mouth talking to me like that you culdesac upbringing jagoff... go back and read it.. it’s pretty clear. Another thing that’s pretty evident is that you probably popped off to a lot of people from a young age cause you knew mommy and daddy could prevent a lot of kids from popping you in the mouth... there were a LOT of Purdue students like that when I went there ...
Trump seems to gravitate toward strong leaders. I think he likes Putin as a leader. Often in the US, liking Putin is commingled with liking Russia. Trump has not been easy on Russia. We killed 112 or so Russians in Syria. We kicked out how many Russian diplomats? Trump called out Germany for the Gazprom deal with Russia. We’ve flooded the market with shale oil and gas, hurting Russia’s prime source of revenue. We used the UN to toughen sanctions on Russia.
If anything, Trump has been tougher on Russia than any President since Reagan. Yet the mainstream media portrays him as being in bed with the Russians continually.
D - This has been an illuminating and diplomatic interaction. It might be best to maybe take a break when you might be feeling better. I would like to continue the discussion on real-politik and intelligence work, but maybe when you're in a less tense mood. Cheers.
Agree to disagree. Many of those acts were carried out by non-executive actions. Thank Mattis for offing the 112 Spetznotz operators. Those sanctions Trump just always seems to delay implementing? We'll tariff Canada, but implement full sanctions on Russia? Hell the Republican delegation just came back recommending lifting the few sanctions we have.
I think in the coming months we're going to learn more about Trump and Russia and I fear our side may get hammered. I'm hoping not, but fearing so. We shall see.
Whatever dude... read it don’t read it... I have guys like SD disagree with me all the time.. he just never starts with wtf.. but again he doesn’t come off like his mom had the elementary school admin on speed dial.
That wasn’t directed at you.. when I carry over a thread from Khc and come at you with wtf feel free to tell me whatever you want. That guy isn’t interested in a duscussion agreeable or disagreeable
I did read it. I’m wondering what the f your talking about, good lord, is it that hard to look what I quoted the first time?
Do you think HRC and the DNC worked with Russian agents to help create the bogus dossier?
You’re just trying to start shit.. the other guy didn’t have a hard time figuring out what he needed to figure out to post a reply...
No, not starting anything. I'm asking about this post what are you saying?-
“They were taking babies...” “I’m the pathetic daughter of a member of the sociopathic global elite... the shit I’m actually doing if ever characterized as what it actually is... is just a bunch of wackos theorizing...” “the baaaaaaabies”
You know what your sociopaths are saying now right? “Assad gassed his own people so even though the us supports 73% of the worlds dictators and even though we couldn’t give a flying F what those dictators do to their people .. and even though we torture people .., we have to make it better by bombing those same people.”
That’s your crispy clean intel community.., and of course if you bring up the fact that us and British elites coincidentally want to run a pipeline through Syria.. you’re a “conspiracy theorist”
My characterization of free trade is what it actually is.. any time you want I’ll take you to decimated industrial towns and show you free trade .. then we can go to highland park Illinois so you can see that it’s all so that those people don’t have to have just one “family yacht”... each kid can have their own yacht...
72 BoilermakerD, 50 minutes ago
I think they hired an MI-6 agent on the Russia desk to do a dump of recent Intel. Not sure what to make of the dossier up or down. I think if If some details like Cohen in Prague is true, then it moves from speculative fiction to some degree of legitimacy. Steele was on the Russia desk, so those guys are about as plugged in as they get on Russia. But again, Im not in the "it's all fake" or "it's all real" camp...yet.
I do wish we'd drop Hillary from memory. Should Sessions investigate? Sure. Do I think this "but Hillary..." logic on any discussion of Trump is helpful? No. It's as if we're saying "Don't vote for Hillary because she's a crook, but if Trump is found to be a crook, just remember Hillary is a bigger crook". It's really weird.
Steele got his bogus “information” from.....Russian agents.
Problem with HRC is that she won’t go away gracefully. She blames just about everyone and everything for her loss except for her and her own campaign’s ineptitude and tone deafness.
I'm not sure it's bogus. You seem strangely confidant. I've seen those on the left saying it's all true. I find both silly until it's vetted out. I've got several wagers going with both sides on the dossier...10-1 odds or more against their proposition... complete fake or all true. I'll win either way as the math works out well on those odds. Want to join the game?
You know you can ignore Hillary? She's irrelevant.
same repeated talking points, so copy/pasting the same responses...
-trade deficit:
to be expected when we are that much wealthier of a nation.
e.g. u.s. gdp per capita is nearly 8 times that of china.
-china reduces tariffs:
lets say this happens.
how will we still compete with chinese product pricing? they will still hold huge advantages in labor costs, production/environmental restrictions, worker population/production capacity, time-to-market, etc.
- tariffs only short term:
what length of time is considered short?
and you trust lying politicians and corrupt government to determine this?
even the shortest time frame, requires immense expenditures and time exhausted to businesses because the duration is unknown. we are still stuck with the implementation, analysis, strategies, resourcing, market disruptions. can be costly for companies that make the wrong moves and anticipate poorly at the games of gov. leaders.
-"they want to supplant the US as THE world superpower":
why wouldn't they, why wouldn't anyone? if we have the 'monopoly' why wouldn't they want to compete and grow their own market share? as noted above, our commerce/labor rules and their rules are different... are we just going to demand staying at the top, rather than compete, innovate, etc?
-wanting fair trade:
in summary,
trying is good. but not great when the implementation is taxes passed onto our consumers, and reliance on government intervention counter to capitalism.
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Funny, all of your responses are why you believe Trump’s policies won’t work but you give no real alternatives except keep the status quo, which just allows awful trends to continue. Yes, let’s just throw our hands up and say “there is nothing that can be done”.
Let’s just continue to let China rape the USA. Let’s just continue to pay for China’s economic rise at our expense. (Guess what they are doing with the windfall from the so-called free trade - building up their military very quickly.). Something like 75% of China’s exports go to the USA. We have leverage. Trump knows this. China knows this. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge this.
Well these tariffs are just killing farmers the gross prices of American grains are down almost 25%, which means farmers are losing their shirts. China was the American farmers biggest consumer and they may never come back as they are now buying most of their food from TPP trading partners. You are going to start to see a dramatic decrease in land values and a lot of bankruptcies caused by Trump’s trade war.
TPP partners can’t supply the quantities China needs. There is no trade war - yet. If this goes on for more than 3-4 months, then it will become a trade war. Right now it is more like sabre rattling. Prices are down today but that doesn’t mean they are down permanently.
I hope not but it is discouraging to see the massive drop in grain prices.
It's hard to measure the full effect the tariffs are having.
Reading the other day about a lobster company in Maine. The owner worked for nearly 3 years to get contracts with China, traveling there several times. Lots of time, money and effort spent to get a foothold in that market. For now, that's all gone. He's now scrambling to find other places to sell his lobsters.
There's a lot more to it than just turning the tariffs on and off. Establishing contracts for goods don't just happen overnight.
Reading the other day about a lobster company in Maine. The owner worked for nearly 3 years to get contracts with China, traveling there several times. Lots of time, money and effort spent to get a foothold in that market. For now, that's all gone. He's now scrambling to find other places to sell his lobsters.
There's a lot more to it than just turning the tariffs on and off. Establishing contracts for goods don't just happen overnight.
I assume you didnt fully read the response(?)
we can compete and innovate... apply principles of open market capitalism.
adapt wages, regulations, etc.... many of which republicans used to typically favor. market our higher price products as premium/better. there are various ways individuals, businesses, and the marketplace can respond.
passing taxes onto consumers is certainly one option. but this is the lazy approach by relying on gov. intervention and avoiding principles of competition. that is like throwing our hands up in the air - saying we are out of ideas, there is nothing else that can be done, help save us government.
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Tariffs are a tool to use - they are not a long-term solution for sure. Nobody wins.
That said, you seem to be ok with an annual $500B+ annual trade deficit with China. All of things you’ve mentioned obviously have not worked. China, Mexico, and the EUhave not been playing by the same set of rules as the US (especially China) even though they all signed up to them.
copy/paste:
thats to be expected when we are that much wealthier of a nation.
e.g. u.s. gdp per capita is nearly 8 times that of china.
one raw statistic (trade deficit) doesn't explain everything. we want walmart low prices, and we want increasing incomes. opportunity for imports grows even more, and others gladly fill the void.
if people are focused on eliminating just the trade deficit - sure, we can reduce our worker wages, reduce company margins, reduce gov. rules/regs to have more competitively priced goods. will many be in favor of this?
alternatively, how/why would we want to enforce rules & regulations upon other countries, when we don't want many of them in the u.s. either? (enviro, wage, industry regs). why not be more competitive in the marketplace and reduce gov. involvement... rather than relying on short term gov. tools/assistance each time challenges arise
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You do realize Mueller's charge was broadly about the election, not just Trump?
Do you not care that a foreign adversary was trying to hack US political candidates, parties AND state election systems?
This indictment lays out in pretty great detail how Russia was doing all of them, using a very elaborate and hard-to-track scheme. This is impressive investigative work.
And your reaction is it is an embarrassment.
Maybe if you're so embarrassed to find out ways that foreign countries are interfering with our free elections and you find our law enforcement so embarrassing you can go high five Putin tomorrow and ask if you can immigrate to Russia.
Well I'm glad you set yourself up to admit that Russia had an influence in the election....this isn't rocket science. I'm sure the Russians were busy using cryptocurrency to set up these elaborate hacking schemes...but it was the damn fat kid in his mom's basement that actually gave them to wikileaks, not the Russians! You're very bright.
You clearly did not read the indictment because it had a lot more to it than Hillary/DNC. It also had to do with hacking and stealing state voter rolls of 500,000+ Americans.
Still don't give a crap? You can go high five Putin tomorrow too I guess since you think this is all stupid!
So what you are saying is that Russia stabbed Obama and HRC in the back. Russian's donations to the Clinton foundation, the dossier fusion GPS and the take by Putin and the understanding of the reset button and Obamas whispers to him, that we will be more lenient after my election, was all a front.
I have said Russia meddled in our election. We have meddled in theirs. This is not news. The fact the FBI found out about it after the election and didnt stop it is troubling.
There is no proof Asage (wiki leaks) got the emails from Russia. The FBI has stated there were multiple entities that hacked the information from HRC's usecure server. The disturbing part is the FBI wasn't one of those entities. And they didnt stop her.
Russia wants to divide this Country. We shouldnt let them succede.
Trump won. The election was legit. This information found by the FBI should be top secret, not given to the public and used to stop further hacks by Russia, China, N Korea or anyone else.
The FBI by dumping this information out there, 'yes Russia meddled in the election, but it didnt have any effect on the outcome' fuels the divide. Each side makes their own biased opinion. The left: see the Russians influenced the election, Trump isnt legit. The right: of course Russia meddled but they didnt change any votes and Trump is legit.
The FBI has become political, Congress has it figured out and wants to change it. The MSM is just as bad. Debate is good but we passed that.
HRC today said Trumps Supreme Court Nominee would set Civil rights and race relation back to 1850. Rediculous.
I have said Russia meddled in our election. We have meddled in theirs. This is not news. The fact the FBI found out about it after the election and didnt stop it is troubling.
There is no proof Asage (wiki leaks) got the emails from Russia. The FBI has stated there were multiple entities that hacked the information from HRC's usecure server. The disturbing part is the FBI wasn't one of those entities. And they didnt stop her.
Russia wants to divide this Country. We shouldnt let them succede.
Trump won. The election was legit. This information found by the FBI should be top secret, not given to the public and used to stop further hacks by Russia, China, N Korea or anyone else.
The FBI by dumping this information out there, 'yes Russia meddled in the election, but it didnt have any effect on the outcome' fuels the divide. Each side makes their own biased opinion. The left: see the Russians influenced the election, Trump isnt legit. The right: of course Russia meddled but they didnt change any votes and Trump is legit.
The FBI has become political, Congress has it figured out and wants to change it. The MSM is just as bad. Debate is good but we passed that.
HRC today said Trumps Supreme Court Nominee would set Civil rights and race relation back to 1850. Rediculous.
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Obama started the Trump Russian colussion investigation by allowing it to start with a faulty Fisa warrant and tapping Trump Tower and putting a Federal spy in the Trump campaig so you're catching on.
Glad the bright lefty light in front of you is dimming.
And it's time for Trump to get aggressive with Putin and Russia instead of just blaming Obama who I agree was weak in the way he addressed it (maybe because you would have cried bloody murder if he did-but that's a different issue). But the balls in your court now Trump-so do something about it. I get it- Obama is to blame but now do something it. Instead you are going to one again ask Putin again if he interfered in our elections-big Whoop. Why don't you confront him instead of asking him. Even Obama said for him to "cut it out". Do something don't be mealy mouthed about it. You sure have no problem in criticizing our allies.
McConnell let Obama know that a statement about Russian interference would not be bipartisan and would be attacked by the right as Obama interfering. McConnell is just as much a traitor.
Exactly, tell me why we need a special council to investigate the Russians trying to influence our election? Thats the fkg job of the FBI and CIA.
The whole investigation into colussion is political. If you have something bring it, if not leave the POTUS alone. Quit dividing the Country with this colussion bs.
Uh, because the President fired the FBI director and was dumb enough to say to the media he did it cause there was an investigation into what Russia did in the election?
Trump has no one but his big mouth to blame.
Leave poor Donny alone!
Trump WANTS to divide the country into two groups......his base and everybody else. As much as he likes to create confusion and uncertainty on so many issues, on this point he is clear. If he didn't bring up the investigation every five minutes there likely wouldn't be much talk about it........except when Mueller puts out his indictments.
The logic triple lindy that has developed as this has gone on is impressive if nothing else.
In the "conservative" argument Russia didn't interfere, the investigation into Russian interference is an Obama deep state witch hunt and Obama should have done something about Russian interference. With thinking like that you won't ever be wrong.
And Obama didn't attempt, and succeed for the most part, of dividing this country by the color of one's skin?
