Mock draft - Swanigan, Haas, Vince

[SnowLeopard]

Draftexpress updated their mock drafts recently

Swanigan made the tail end of the first round in 2017 at #30
Vince is #35 and Haas #44 in 2018

When was the last time we had a rotation with 3 NBA caliber players?

 

[nagemj02]

I don't think VE and Haas are leaving early. They both have a lot to work on to have any chance of being legit NBA players.

 

[klmLB]

Draftexpress updated their mock drafts recently

Swanigan made the tail end of the first round in 2017 at #30
Vince is #35 and Haas #44 in 2018

When was the last time we had a rotation with 3 NBA caliber players?

This is exciting obviously. The thing I like the most is how 'team-oriented' our guys are and they care more about Purdue and the win vs impressing NBA scouts. Vince went 0-7 against Maryland, but didn't force up bad shots to 'get his' and still played solid D and got some big rebounds. Biggie took 1 or 2 shots in 2nd half of IU for same reason (didn't force it). Haas has to be frustrated not starting, but he is a team guy. Unlike any Purdue team I can't remember, this one is also the most unpredictable in terms of who the opposition tries to stop and the # of guys that can really hurt you. Carsen, Dakota, Cline can burn you at a moments notice too. PJ will pick his spots and he is playing very solid.

I hope this translates to tourney wins this year. They always say Final Four teams and National Title teams typically have 3 NBA caliber players. (I'm not saying we are that, but just saying...) We fit that mold (on borderline) and I like the contributions from the other guys. Obviously, it would be more balanced if one of our NBA caliber players was a guard, but I can't be choosy (and Carsen might fit that in a year or 2 anyway).

We aren't immune to the upset, but if we are hitting on all cylinders going into the tourney, it's probably the highest ceiling Purdue team for as long as I can remember.

Our biggest weakness is that we don't have that elite athleticism, but I think playing smart and poise can overcome it at times. Think about those Butler runner-up teams.

 

[Summy1]

It's going to be fun in the BT tournament and NCAA tournament. This is overall one of the better teams Purdue has had in a while. You got some good shooters and biggie crashing the boards.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Draftexpress updated their mock drafts recently

Swanigan made the tail end of the first round in 2017 at #30
Vince is #35 and Haas #44 in 2018

When was the last time we had a rotation with 3 NBA caliber players?

Hummel, Moore, and Johnson. Not too long ago the real question is when was last team that had 3 NBA caliber players healthy

 

[Gemini95]

I don't think VE and Haas are leaving early.

Neither does draft express.

 

[SnowLeopard]

Hummel, Moore, and Johnson. Not too long ago the real question is when was last team that had 3 NBA caliber players healthy

Good point!

Actual 2011/12: JJ #27, Moore #55, Hummel #58 = Average #46.67

Mock 2017/18: Swanigan #30, VE #35, Haas #44 = Average #36.33

You can say this squad has actually more NBA talent relative to their class, though I agree backcourt talent is more pertinent to NCAA success

 

[lbodel]

I don't think VE and Haas are leaving early. They both have a lot to work on to have any chance of being legit NBA players.

The mock draft with Edwards/Haas is 2018, just FYI. Neither are going anywhere (unless dumb) this year.

 

[mediaexpert]

Good point!
Actual 2011/12: JJ #27, Moore #55, Hummel #58 = Average #46.67
Mock 2017/18: Swanigan #30, VE #35, Haas #44 = Average #36.33
You can say this squad has actually more NBA talent relative to their class, though I agree backcourt talent is more pertinent to NCAA success

Our team will probably NOT make the final 4 if one of our NBA talents continues playing less than 22 minutes per game.

 

[dumpsterFyre]

Our team will probably NOT make the final 4 if one of our NBA talents continues playing less than 22 minutes per game.

Or maybe that depth is why we're capable of a Final Four.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

Not worried about our guards. Good free throw shooting, don't turn the ball over, one that can drive to the hoop (Carson), top notch 3 point shooting, and one of the best defenders in Matthias. They are underrated. In our 5 losses, we had a combined deficit of 16 points at the end of regulation. This is a very good team that if they don't fall asleep at the wheel that hasn't the potential to be a FF team.

 

[Lionheart1]

This team has ability to beat nearly anyone on a good day and lose to about anyone when they are off. Have to stay focused and everyone comes to every game ready to play.

 

[todd brewster]

I can't stand posters who knock the kids. I always try to praise a kid, before I give what I hope they take as constructive criticism. Having said this, I never commented about Carson Edwards. He has matured and is now playing much much better. Matt played him a lot and I did not like it. However, Carson has improved and the investment is good for Purdue. I am puzzled that Haas was not given as much time to work on his game. Matt seems to give Haas certain minutes and if he screws up or commits fouls he is taken out. I would love to see Haas get 30 minutes a game over the next few games. I think that Haas can learn and work through his difficulties. He has exhibited some great footwork, but then is pulled and given advice and I think it it a mental thing. If given more time, he can work through it himself. Haas is an NBA talent and should be playing 30 minutes a game. I love how we seem to dominate a game physically when we have Haas, Caleb and Vince playing together. In the playoffs when things get physical this lineup will be critical. I love the 3 point shooting of PJ, Dakota and Cline and the driving of Carson and Spike. A big advantage this team has is that a press does not bother us like it has in the past. Matt is doing a great job game planning and making adjustments at the half. This team can definitely go to the final 4.

 

[BoilerStation]

Haas can't handle 30 minutes a game. He is most effective with 20 to 25 minutes. The longer he plays the more his performance drops off. He is just too big and too slow for today's college game and the speed to see the amount of minutes poster's regularly suggest on here.

 

[TheMogul]

Draftexpress updated their mock drafts recently

Swanigan made the tail end of the first round in 2017 at #30
Vince is #35 and Haas #44 in 2018

When was the last time we had a rotation with 3 NBA caliber players?

I think the most impressive thing about this years team is that we have five people averaging double figures in points. We may have three players who will play professionally but more importantly we are not top heavy. We have depth and we are efficient.

IMO... I would not put much stock into future mock drafts, specifically the 2nd round. The 2nd round quite often has an abundance of foreigners and many of them are no names, even to experts. Putting Isaac and Vince there is basically a cop out to doing significant research. But both have a chance but need drastic improvement.

 

[TC4THREE]

We need to keep one of either Haas or Swanigan on the floor most all the time. We don't want to be in a situation where both are in foul trouble which I believe happened in the Villanova game. I think this is also something that keeps Haas minutes down particularly in the first half of games. If for some reason Swanigan finds his way into foul trouble you don't want Haas sitting on the bench with a couple also.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Our team will probably NOT make the final 4 if one of our NBA talents continues playing less than 22 minutes per game.

This is what I love about the armchair coaches, first it's Haas needs to come off the bench and play less now he isn't playing enough.

Could someone put together a flowchart so the rest of us can keep up with the frequent mind changing?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

We need to keep one of either Haas or Swanigan on the floor most all the time. We don't want to be in a situation where both are in foul trouble which I believe happened in the Villanova game. I think this is also something that keeps Haas minutes down particularly in the first half of games. If for some reason Swanigan finds his way into foul trouble you don't want Haas sitting on the bench with a couple also.

Yeah this is a concern for me in the NCAA. Would love to see JT recovered enough to get some minutes in the regular season so he's ready to go if we need him in the postseason.

 

[TC4THREE]

This is what I love about the armchair coaches, first it's Haas needs to come off the bench and play less now he isn't playing enough.

Could someone put together a flowchart so the rest of us can keep up with the frequent mind changing?

Bingo. Most of the people here are completely reactionary to winning or losing. It's not about the process, just the result. All they know is that if we lost, something must change. Doesn't matter if they want to change something that's working or not. Doesn't matter if we happened to lose to a team that just had a great day last game. Doesn't matter if the change makes any sense. All they know is that we lost so they want to think there is some magical elixir that will transform us into some unbeatable team.

 

[mediaexpert]

Haas can't handle 30 minutes a game. He is most effective with 20 to 25 minutes. The longer he plays the more his performance drops off. He is just too big and too slow for today's college game and the speed to see the amount of minutes poster's regularly suggest on here.

How can you say he can't handle 30 minutes a game, when you have never seen him play 30 minutes a game? How can you say he is too slow? Haas always hustles back on D and have you ever seen the opposing center beat him down the floor and score on a fast break? If this happened 2 or more times per game, then I would agree with you. How can you say, he is too big? Watch the games and see how many times the opp go to the basket with Haas in compared to Haas out. I have seen very few times when the opp centers have driven around Haas. Bryant did it once and Haas fouled him and the posters made it sound like he did it every time. There was another game where the opp had two men in to counter and they were not very effective offensively. Credit Caleb for helping out. I would love to see the stats of the opp centers scoring versus Haas when both are in the game at the same time. Haas may have been hurt these last few games, but as soon as he is healthy he needs to play more and learn how to adjust his game with the additional playing time.

For the poster who said that I wanted Haas coming off the bench, I never said that. As a matter of fact, I love Caleb and his intensity, but I have never seen him win the jump ball. Haas almost always did.

For those who talk about the disadvantage of Haas and Caleb having foul trouble - good point. However, we lost more games with Haas who has a great +- record not playing enough minutes. However, if Matt sees the refs calling a lot of fouls then I can understand a quick hook.

 

[punaj]

Pretty sure Haas made Happ look foolish when Wisc came to Mackey. Haas was the only person that could stop him. I love Biggie but Haas was a far better matchup that game. We should be thankful we have two bigs that have different skill sets. Lets us match up well against a lot of other teams while at the same time making us a matchup nightmare.

 

[FirstDownB]

How can you say he can't handle 30 minutes a game, when you have never seen him play 30 minutes a game? How can you say he is too slow? Haas always hustles back on D and have you ever seen the opposing center beat him down the floor and score on a fast break? If this happened 2 or more times per game, then I would agree with you. How can you say, he is too big? Watch the games and see how many times the opp go to the basket with Haas in compared to Haas out. I have seen very few times when the opp centers have driven around Haas. Bryant did it once and Haas fouled him and the posters made it sound like he did it every time. There was another game where the opp had two men in to counter and they were not very effective offensively. Credit Caleb for helping out. I would love to see the stats of the opp centers scoring versus Haas when both are in the game at the same time. Haas may have been hurt these last few games, but as soon as he is healthy he needs to play more and learn how to adjust his game with the additional playing time.

For the poster who said that I wanted Haas coming off the bench, I never said that. As a matter of fact, I love Caleb and his intensity, but I have never seen him win the jump ball. Haas almost always did.

For those who talk about the disadvantage of Haas and Caleb having foul trouble - good point. However, we lost more games with Haas who has a great +- record not playing enough minutes. However, if Matt sees the refs calling a lot of fouls then I can understand a quick hook.

First of all, winning the opening tip has approximately zero effect on the outcome of the game. Alternating possessions and all.

Second, a fatigued Haas is a defensive liability. After dozens of trips up and down the floor, he gets winded. Bringing him off the bench and playing him in shorter spurts is done to offset this. The team has played better ball with Biggie starting and Isaac feasting on the sloppy seconds. Depending on the pace of play and timing of stoppages, demanding more than 25 mpg out of IH can be a recipe for disaster.

 

[BoilerStation]

In multiple games this year where he has played higher minutes and especially in those with a faster pace he has gotten tired and winded. This isn't a knock on him its just the way its going to be. He takes a beating unlike anybody else in the conference right now and it also takes a toll. He turns the ball over at a high rate just like Biggie does and has trouble finishing through contact due to the beating he takes. I wasn't referring to getting beaten down the court but he is slow to collapse on help defense and for his height is average to low as far as shot blocking ability. He struggles against athletic centers who can take him away from the basket and with the college game following the path of the NBA game this has become more and more common and why he doesn't play huge minutes. He cannot cover a man out to the 3pt line and prevent drives to the basket nor should he be expected to. He has lots of success against traditional big men who only play/shoot in the paint like Happ. The game is changing and moving more towards the perimeter with more and more big men taking outside shots.

Haas can be very efficient at times and a lot of it has to do with matchups and how the games are being called. Lately he hasn't been getting the benefit and you can openly see the frustration on his face. It really sucks for him and I feel bad for the guy but as of now he is being punished for being too big and strong. Even thought Painter is correct in his defense it does nothing to help the team to be correct and keep forcing an issue if the calls aren't being made. I'm actually happy Painter has taken notice to the fact that refs haven't adjusted to his size and has made changes to our lineups. In the past we would force feed him 10 times in a row while the other team hangs on him to prove a point. Being right gets you nothing if the calls aren't being made and we had to adjust and that's what Painter has done by keeping his minutes around 20 per game.

 

[mediaexpert]

In multiple games this year where he has played higher minutes and especially in those with a faster pace he has gotten tired and winded. This isn't a knock on him its just the way its going to be. He takes a beating unlike anybody else in the conference right now and it also takes a toll. He turns the ball over at a high rate just like Biggie does and has trouble finishing through contact due to the beating he takes. I wasn't referring to getting beaten down the court but he is slow to collapse on help defense and for his height is average to low as far as shot blocking ability. He struggles against athletic centers who can take him away from the basket and with the college game following the path of the NBA game this has become more and more common and why he doesn't play huge minutes. He cannot cover a man out to the 3pt line and prevent drives to the basket nor should he be expected to. He has lots of success against traditional big men who only play/shoot in the paint like Happ. The game is changing and moving more towards the perimeter with more and more big men taking outside shots.
Haas can be very efficient at times and a lot of it has to do with matchups and how the games are being called. Lately he hasn't been getting the benefit and you can openly see the frustration on his face. It really sucks for him and I feel bad for the guy but as of now he is being punished for being too big and strong. Even thought Painter is correct in his defense it does nothing to help the team to be correct and keep forcing an issue if the calls aren't being made. I'm actually happy Painter has taken notice to the fact that refs haven't adjusted to his size and has made changes to our lineups. In the past we would force feed him 10 times in a row while the other team hangs on him to prove a point. Being right gets you nothing if the calls aren't being made and we had to adjust and that's what Painter has done by keeping his minutes around 20 per game.

Where can I go to compare his individual stats by individual game? Also is there a place where I can see a player's +-? His overall stats are comparative to last year when he played 6 minutes less per game. It is my contention that his stats are a lot better in games where he played more. His stats IMO have seen to drop more the last few games and that is because IMO he is not getting enough minutes or he is injured. Let's say he gets in better mental condition to play a 30 minute game. It turns out I am wrong and my error costs us one game. Wouldn't that be justified if we find out Haas can play 25 minutes as effective and our team's +- goes up for 5 minutes a game during the playoffs? What if by miracle I am right and our team's +- goes up for 10 minutes per game?

 

[BoilerStation]

Where can I go to compare his individual stats by individual game? Also is there a place where I can see a player's +-? His overall stats are comparative to last year when he played 6 minutes less per game. It is my contention that his stats are a lot better in games where he played more. His stats IMO have seen to drop more the last few games and that is because IMO he is not getting enough minutes or he is injured. Let's say he gets in better mental condition to play a 30 minute game. It turns out I am wrong and my error costs us one game. Wouldn't that be justified if we find out Haas can play 25 minutes as effective and our team's +- goes up for 5 minutes a game during the playoffs? What if by miracle I am right and our team's +- goes up for 10 minutes per game?

I glanced at his game log on espn quickly. The last few games he has certainly struggled and his minutes are down. I guess some think he struggles because his minutes are down where I think his minutes are down because he has struggled in some of those games and sometimes the matchups just aren't there for him or he gets in foul trouble. We tend to forget that Purdue only has 2 post players and 2 guys to play the 5 on roster. +/- can be an indicator but it's not the tell all for a player. I'm pretty sure that Purdue doesn't need to experiment with his conditioning and Painter is well aware of his limits at this point. Playing 30 minutes one single game isn't substantial evidence to make a decision either way.

 

[BoilerStation]

To make a note we only have 2 players who average 30 minutes or more a game and they barely average that. Biggie(31.8) and Mathias(30.6). There have been some games where I wouldn't have minded seeing a couple more minutes from him but the jump to 30 is unrealistic and will never happen while he's here so I don't see any point in arguing for that amount.

 

[mediaexpert]

You are right, but Haas is averaging the 7th most minutes per game. Maybe we should just try a steady climb increasing 3 minutes per game and then level off at 30 for 3 games and see what happens.

 

[gelesen]

Interesting that Biggie is still a teenager and Vince is not yet 21. Haas just turned 21.

 

[samcboiler]

How can you say he can't handle 30 minutes a game, when you have never seen him play 30 minutes a game? How can you say he is too slow? Haas always hustles back on D and have you ever seen the opposing center beat him down the floor and score on a fast break? If this happened 2 or more times per game, then I would agree with you. How can you say, he is too big? Watch the games and see how many times the opp go to the basket with Haas in compared to Haas out. I have seen very few times when the opp centers have driven around Haas. Bryant did it once and Haas fouled him and the posters made it sound like he did it every time. There was another game where the opp had two men in to counter and they were not very effective offensively. Credit Caleb for helping out. I would love to see the stats of the opp centers scoring versus Haas when both are in the game at the same time. Haas may have been hurt these last few games, but as soon as he is healthy he needs to play more and learn how to adjust his game with the additional playing time.

For the poster who said that I wanted Haas coming off the bench, I never said that. As a matter of fact, I love Caleb and his intensity, but I have never seen him win the jump ball. Haas almost always did.

For those who talk about the disadvantage of Haas and Caleb having foul trouble - good point. However, we lost more games with Haas who has a great +- record not playing enough minutes. However, if Matt sees the refs calling a lot of fouls then I can understand a quick hook.

You both have valid posts. It would be great to see Haas play 30 minutes. However, he does get tired and I'm almost positive he would foul out every time... I'm sure we'll get a chance to see what happens with Haas / 30 minutes a game, early next season... Great posts by both of you...

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Our team will probably NOT make the final 4 if one of our NBA talents continues playing less than 22 minutes per game.

There is a huge difference between talent and size. Haven't seen Haas's NBA talent this year unless its been against an inferior opponent.

 

[mediaexpert]

There is a huge difference between talent and size. Haven't seen Haas's NBA talent this year unless its been against an inferior opponent.

I am sorry, you have missed some good games.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

I am sorry, you have missed some good games.

Change some to a few and actually I've seen them all. You must of missed this recent stretch of games.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Change some to a few and actually I've seen them all. You must of missed this recent stretch of games.

Well then you are being blinded by your disdain for all-things-CMP. Haas will be in the NBA simple because of his size and there are worse people already in the league.

 

[mediaexpert]

[QUOTE="BoilerFan#35 You must of missed this recent stretch of games.[/QUOTE]

I guess it was true that Haas had been playing hurt lately. I am glad to see the staff decide to play him 25+ minutes and he was able to get in a rhythm. We need to keep that up, so Haas can be a force in the playoffs.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

[QUOTE="BoilerFan#35 You must of missed this recent stretch of games.

I guess it was true that Haas had been playing hurt lately. I am glad to see the staff decide to play him 25+ minutes and he was able to get in a rhythm. We need to keep that up, so Haas can be a force in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Playoffs?