Manchin
- Thread starter BoilerBF
- Start date
Nope they are trying to figure out how much of Bernie Sanders socialism they can stomach. What's unclear is how many other democrats are actually concerned about Sanders socialism.
It's telling that you like the guy who takes tons of pharma lobby money and whose daughter was caught price-fixing EPI pens than the guy who wants everyone to have their healthcare provided for.
I think there's actually a provision in there that says illegals have a path to citizenship, but only if they promise to vote democrat once they're citizens.
What does his daughter have to do with anything? According to all Democrats, Hunter doesn't have anything to do with what his dad does, right?
I don't like Manchin for the record. But he is one of the rare democrats that talks with an ounce of common sense these days. He is also only one of the few that can save this country from a self described socialist, ramming through his domestic agenda.
So you have to follow him. His bark is generally worse than his bite in terms of actually holding up legislation. He will negotiate some, and then more than likely vote yes for a significant portion of Sanders agenda.
Manchin should flip and be a Republican. At least IMO that is what the Dem leadership fears. If he did this like his current WV Governor did, it would immediately shut down this liberal madness being considered. Amazing how WV flipped from being Blue to now Red and Manchin is the only WV major office holder that still is Blue
Surprisingly still standing strong, I figured he would've caved by now. Are there any Biden voters on here that disagree with Manchin's statement below?
Yes, because what alternative has he proposed? Also, the policies in question are actually quite popular. I would argue that he’s not representing the will of the people here.
I think the argument could be made that he is representing what WV citizens want. If he represented CA, then I would agree with you
And don't forget this wildcard too
As she should. She’s balking without offering up any resolutions or compromises either.
Then why isn't a neighboring blue state democrat running for Governor "all in" on 3.5 trillion in spending?
Follow actions. An Arizona senator in a swing state isn't all in on 3.5 Trillion package. The package is popular with generic wording polling. When you actually explain the package to people it isn't as popular.
I’m sure they are not in favor of the green energy portion
So you think a deep Red state is in favor of the 3.5 trillion spending program?
Manchin has offered alternatives. He wants to means test this spending. He wants a strategic pause to see what the economic recovery looks like, and if inflation (you know that thing that democrats just said was going to be short term) continues to rage. He wants to make sure we can pay for social security and Medicare, before going on a spending spree with new welfare programs.
Just basic common sense stuff.
Those aren’t alternatives. He’s also talking out of his ass and has contradicted himself. He’s basically grandstanding.
You can also stop with the pearl clutching here. You had no problem when the debt was spiraling the four years prior, so let’s no pretend you care now either
Was inflation an issue 4 years ago? Had we already spent 5 trillion in one year, and then proposed 3.5M more trillion? How is Manchin contradicting himself?
The majority of the United States doesn't want Bernie Sanders socialism. Bidens too dumb to understand that, but he will get the message in 2022.
Quit trying to tie inflation to this administration. It was going to happen regardless of who was in office given how badly covid has fukked everything up. It’s a hollow talking point for the stupid given to you by fearmongering schmucks. Be smarter.
Same with the socialism bullshit. Nothing about this is socialism.
If you want to have a grown-up conversation about this, that would be great. But there’s no need to engage further if the best you can do for yourself is toss out some worn out boogeyman nonsense.
Is Larry Summers using "hollow talking points"? Biden told us inflation was going to be just a short term issue. He was wrong. At what point will Joe start listening?
Larry Summers blasts $1.9 T stimulus as ‘least responsible’ economic policy in 40 years
Larry Summers, a top economic adviser to former President Obama, blasted the $1.9 trillion coronavirus stimulus package signed by President Biden earlier this month as the “least responsible” econo…
thehill.com
A majority of citizens also want the government to tax less. What's your point?
Look, what you don't seem to understand is that inflation doesn't get better when you pour big government spending on top of it. When the GDP is down, you don't go crazy with spending. It's pretty common sense stuff...
Manchin doesn’t have to represent the will of the people, only the will of his constituents. And his constituents have voted red for for the last 20 yrs, increasingly red in each election (with exception of 2008). Last year it was 68.6% in favor of Trump, or put another way 29.7% in favor of the Biden agenda.
West Virginia Presidential Election Voting History - 270toWin
Information on how the residents of West Virginia have voted in presidential elections. Includes trends and polls for the 2020 election, as well as a West Virginia voting history and narrative.
www.270towin.com
His information comes from a poll that asks:
"Are you in favor of free college" - Yes that will get more than 50%
"Are you in favor of only the wealthy paying more in taxes" - yes that gets more than 50%
Are you in favor of 3.5 Trillion in New spending, when Social Security and Medicare are underfunded for the future? - All of a sudden less than 50% want that.
Are you in favor of corporations passing on their costs from raised taxes? Are you in favor of inflation eating up more of your paycheck? - All of a sudden polling numbers look very different.
I was asking if there was a WV poll versus a national poll, because if near 70% voted for Trump and less than 30% for Biden, I have to believe that 50% of WV’ians wouldn’t favor Biden’s expanded infrastructure deal
Yep. They obviously don't favor 3.5 trillion in spending. As I posted even the democrat running for governor in blue state Virginia knows its toxic to support 3.5 Trillion in spending.
Y’all always have the dumbest comebacks.
Anyway, here’s this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/west-virginia-joe-biden-spending-plan-popular
Also, tell me how much we spend on military every year and then tell me we can’t afford money on infrastructure. Your pearl clutching is beyond absurd here.
And for the record, I’m not in favor of the fluff that goes into these bills, but find me a bill that doesn’t have it. Manchin is full of shit with his nonsense around spending because he’s been paid off as much as anyone else in government.
What does Manchin getting paid off have to do with not wanting to spend $3.5T?
And BTW, the military budget is about $700B annually.
What I don't understand about the plan is what paying someone else's childcare, pre-school for 3 and 4 year olds, funding for HBCU's, low cost housing, and lawful permanent status for illegal immigrants has to do with infrastructure (which is the majority of the spending)? You want to invest in clean energy and reduction in forest fires, I'm all in. This other nonsense is just nothing but giveaways for votes.
I applaud you for find some evidence of WV support. Too bad it only surveyed 800 WV and was done by “the Guardian”. Why does a British “centre-left” newspaper care about WV and US politics? Could it be to promote socialism?
That's great. But at least we ALL get benefit from protection of the military, whether you like it or not. I get absolutely ZERO benefit from childcare, 3-4 yo preschool, affordable housing, HCBU funding, and illegal immigration reform.
I suppose it depends on whether you think those things benefit society at large or not. As just an example, I presume we could both accept that better-educated people are less likely to engage in violent crime? I’d argue we all benefit from having fewer violent criminals. Similarly, if one attended private school and sends one’s kids to private school, it would be easy to say “I don’t benefit from public education.” But I’d presume you’d not be ok living in a country where 50% (or whatever percentage) of the population never had the opportunity to go to school. We all benefit from public education, even if we never personally engage with it.
It’s not my intention to go through the whole bill in this way, but I at least appreciate that you’re willing to discuss the merits of the bill rather than just the cost. Simply saying “3.5T is too expensive” is just a convenient way to dismiss the whole bill without having to have a conversation about whether the the things the bill attempts do to are worthy or not. One could just as easily dismiss $7T in military spending over the same amount of time because ”it’s too expensive.”
Biden had no agenda.Manchin doesn’t have to represent the will of the people, only the will of his constituents. And his constituents have voted red for for the last 20 yrs, increasingly red in each election (with exception of 2008). Last year it was 68.6% in favor of Trump, or put another way 29.7% in favor of the Biden agenda.
West Virginia Presidential Election Voting History - 270toWin
Information on how the residents of West Virginia have voted in presidential elections. Includes trends and polls for the 2020 election, as well as a West Virginia voting history and narrative.
Those were anti Trump votes.
