Kyle Young to Butler

[icewind7]

Both sides' arguments are actually how things work in my engineering company.

Group A represents like the CEO and upper management, who doesn't need to know the great details but instead, they want the business growth and results.
Group B represents like the engineers, who understand the work flow, but probably have the different view from the upper management.

Keep in mind, in order for a company to be successful, group A and B needs to align somewhat. You cannot ignore the details but the results matter most.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I agree. Never given much thought about it until this year. I was a stud co- rec 5'11" player. My son is a true stud footballer being recruited by everything from NIAI to D1. It's a hard to prrosses to understanding what each coach is offering. And trust me that they are not offering much and it is still hard. These kids and their parents are make a big life dession. I Truly understand the agony of trying to make a dission. D1 coach is saying we would love to have him but I don't know if he will ever play. NIAI coach is saying that he could be the center pice of the team. It is so competitive. I have told my wife that my biggest nightmare in life is that IU would be his only offer at D1. At that point I think I would have to say D2 is great and that is where all the truly good player are.

Here's my two-cents ... 1. go to the school that loves him the most unless he just doesn't want to. 2. go D2 (or whatever the level is below D1 in football) if you can afford it. Accept that their busses are old and they don't fly everywhere and the warmups have been worn before.

 

[mathboy]

Do you intentionally not use the reply function so that no one knows what the f*ck your posts refer to?

Real Deal doesn't know who is replying to, or for that matter, what he is saying. He is just spouting nonsense and trying to bait posters. He is just a troll.

I think it might be time to take out the trash by the mods.

 

[TC4THREE]

Do you mean Chris Holtmann who beat Purdue last year in the Crossroads Classic, which is one more win in the Crossroads than Painter has ever won?

Is it the same Chris Holtmann who has won an opening round game in the NCAA tourney, in each of the last two years, when Painter hasn't won one NCAA game in the last four years?

Do you mean that Chris Holtmann?

Somehow I would bet you that, if he stays at Butler, he will be able to get to, AT LEAST, two Sweet Sixteens in his eleven years there.

And here's the damning comment about Purdue versus Butler. I would also bet you that if he doesn't get to, at least, two Sweet Sixteens in 11 years, I would bet you huge money that he wouldn't be around for a 12th year. They expect results with basketball at Butler.

I can see you didn't want to answer the question. The answer is that he has never been to the Sweet Sixteen. Painter has. Therefore, your theory that he went there instead of Purdue because he's proven he can take a team on deep tourney runs is stupid and invalid. You can make all the excuses you want, but you were wrong.

 

[cprh9u]

Matt Painter Big Ten Coach of Year 3 times?

That and a nickel will get you a gumball. Go ask Coach K or Izzo or Pitino or someone with real success what matters... league titles, final 4's and championships or B1G COY awards. This is the absolute worst defense of Painter but when his regular season accomplishments have been average and his post season accomplishments have sucked, I guess it's all you have to go on.

 

[Dakota Girl]

....."you Purdue fans"....read between those lines folks!!

Nice observation

 

[Dakota Girl]

That and a nickel will get you a gumball. Go ask Coach K or Izzo or Pitino or someone with real success what matters... league titles, final 4's and championships or B1G COY awards. This is the absolute worst defense of Painter but when his regular season accomplishments have been average and his post season accomplishments have sucked, I guess it's all you have to go on.

You are very well aligned with real deal congratulations.

 

[cprh9u]

You are very well aligned with real deal congratulations.

Yeah, I don't really care about "real deal", just saying who cares about 3 COY awards when you have 2 S16's and a single CO-B1G championship in, what, 11 years? Be honest... If IU fans were justifying Crean as a good coach with those "accomplishments" after 11 years, everyone on here supporting Painter would laugh in their face and call them names (by the way, he has better accomplishments in less time and everyone here mocks him already). A bit hypocritical if we are being honest, but I'm sure you will make up an excuse why that double standard is ok.

 

[vilehoopster]

I agree 100% that the coach-of-year wins is a terrible justification for Painter. Hell, most of the time they're popularity contests, and you know how to be popular? By not consistently beating the hell of the other coaches. I will accept that Painter is respected by the other coaches in the Big Ten, but he is not feared, and most certainly Painter is not feared for his X's and O's or his ability to make adjustments on the fly during a game.

 

[cprh9u]

I agree 100% that the coach-of-year wins is a terrible justification for Painter. Hell, most of the time they're popularity contests, and you know how to be popular? By not consistently beating the hell of the other coaches. I will accept that Painter is respected by the other coaches in the Big Ten, but he is not feared, and most certainly Painter is not feared for his X's and O's or his ability to make adjustments on the fly during a game.

He sure is respected, but he is not effective. Izzo also has 3 COY awards in twice the time at MSU. Goodness, he must suck since Painter has the same amount in half the time. Nevermind his 7 final 4's, NCAA championship and 7 B1G league titles. He's basically the same coach as CMP since they have the same amount of COY awards.

 

[TC4THREE]

He sure is respected, but he is not effective. Izzo also has 3 COY awards in twice the time at MSU. Goodness, he must suck since Painter has the same amount in half the time. Nevermind his 7 final 4's, NCAA championship and 7 B1G league titles. He's basically the same coach as CMP since they have the same amount of COY awards.

So you want Painter fired because he hasn't outperformed someone who will go down as one of the top 20 or so coaches in NCAA history? Makes sense.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

He sure is respected, but he is not effective. Izzo also has 3 COY awards in twice the time at MSU. Goodness, he must suck since Painter has the same amount in half the time. Nevermind his 7 final 4's, NCAA championship and 7 B1G league titles. He's basically the same coach as CMP since they have the same amount of COY awards.

The amount of stupidity you have here is on a whole new epic level. Congrats.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Yeah, I don't really care about "real deal", just saying who cares about 3 COY awards when you have 2 S16's and a single CO-B1G championship in, what, 11 years? Be honest... If IU fans were justifying Crean as a good coach with those "accomplishments" after 11 years, everyone on here supporting Painter would laugh in their face and call them names (by the way, he has better accomplishments in less time and everyone here mocks him already). A bit hypocritical if we are being honest, but I'm sure you will make up an excuse why that double standard is ok.

I think Crean and Painter end up in about the same level if you want to rank coaches. Crean gets where he is because he can recruit. It's a fairly consistent inflow of burger boys and high four stars. Painter does not recruit at that level but does manage to get a bit more out of the recruits he has. To say his accomplishments are better...I guess that depends on what is important to you. To say Crean is better than Painter needs some very specific qualifications to go with it, and vice-versa. I would rather have Painter than a coach who behaves like a tool all the time. I value not being embarrassed by my alma matter. If someone can convince me we can get a coach better at both aspects without embarrassing the school and alumni then by all means change away.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Do you mean Chris Holtmann who beat Purdue last year in the Crossroads Classic, which is one more win in the Crossroads than Painter has ever won?

Is it the same Chris Holtmann who has won an opening round game in the NCAA tourney, in each of the last two years, when Painter hasn't won one NCAA game in the last four years?

Do you mean that Chris Holtmann?

Somehow I would bet you that, if he stays at Butler, he will be able to get to, AT LEAST, two Sweet Sixteens in his eleven years there.

And here's the damning comment about Purdue versus Butler. I would also bet you that if he doesn't get to, at least, two Sweet Sixteens in 11 years, I would bet you huge money that he wouldn't be around for a 12th year. They expect results with basketball at Butler.

As usual you used the worst part of Painters tenure to characterize his career. You also failed to recognize the improvement of the last two years. Yes they have been bounced early the last two and that is a result of recruiting issues. The lack of good offensive guard play has been the problem.
Regarding Butler: it's tough for me to say how Holtman will do over 12 years. You seem to know already though.

 

[mathboy]

I agree 100% that the coach-of-year wins is a terrible justification for Painter. Hell, most of the time they're popularity contests, and you know how to be popular? By not consistently beating the hell of the other coaches. I will accept that Painter is respected by the other coaches in the Big Ten, but he is not feared, and most certainly Painter is not feared for his X's and O's or his ability to make adjustments on the fly during a game.

Actually, you get COY by BEATING the other coaches in the BIG. That is probably the first of many things wrong in your post. The rest of your post, about what other coaches fear or don't fear/respect about Painter, is pure fantasy. You don't have any idea about that subject, so I can accept you statement as your speculation, but if so, you should consider qualifying as such.

 

[88btfu92]

I think Crean and Painter end up in about the same level if you want to rank coaches. Crean gets where he is because he can recruit. It's a fairly consistent inflow of burger boys and high four stars. Painter does not recruit at that level but does manage to get a bit more out of the recruits he has. To say his accomplishments are better...I guess that depends on what is important to you. To say Crean is better than Painter needs some very specific qualifications to go with it, and vice-versa. I would rather have Painter than a coach who behaves like a tool all the time. I value not being embarrassed by my alma matter. If someone can convince me we can get a coach better at both aspects without embarrassing the school and alumni then by all means change away.

Painter gets more out of the recruits he has? False. Painter doesn't know how to polish a raw player. They usually transfer.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

Painter gets more out of the recruits he has? False. Painter doesn't know how to polish a raw player. They usually transfer.

Help me out. Name one player that transferred and had a significant NCAA career and/or went on to play in the NBA. I don't recall one, but it's entirely possible I'm forgetting...I'm getting old.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Painter gets more out of the recruits he has? False. Painter doesn't know how to polish a raw player. They usually transfer.

OK. What transfer went on to great things under the tuteledge of another coach?
Crickets.
Now think about the players who became solid contributors in their junior and senior years.
Say he doesn't recruit well enough to be a perineal final four coach and I will not argue. But to say he is not good at coaching them up is simply ridiculous.

 

[Dryfly88]

OK. What transfer went on to great things under the tuteledge of another coach?
Crickets.
Now think about the players who became solid contributors in their junior and senior years.
Say he doesn't recruit well enough to be a perineal final four coach and I will not argue. But to say he is not good at coaching them up is simply ridiculous.

Bingo!

CMP doesn't recruit well enough year after year to have us consistently in the top 10 (then again, there are only a handful of programs that do). But to say he doesn't develop or get the most out of who he does recruit is just silly.

These are 2 completely different arguments and I think some on here are too anti-CMP to separate the 2.

 

[vilehoopster]

So you want Painter fired because he hasn't outperformed someone who will go down as one of the top 20 or so coaches in NCAA history? Makes sense.

No, I want him to outperform whoever the coaches are at Butler and Xavier, and beat one of those teams, not just once (but once would be a good start) but consistently. I want him to perform as well as the dozens of other coaches who consistently get to Sweet Sixteens. I want him to do what Shaka Smart did at VCU; what Tom Cream achieved at Marquette. I want him to do ONE STINKING TIME what Tom Izzo seems to do as easily as falling off the couch, just one time and I would be off his back.

 

[boilerzz]

This is the absolute worst defense of Painter but when his regular season accomplishments have been average

 

[TheRealDeal73]

Still waiting

 

[cprh9u]

Help me out. Name one player that transferred and had a significant NCAA career and/or went on to play in the NBA. I don't recall one, but it's entirely possible I'm forgetting...I'm getting old.

Yeah, I think that's more of an indication of Painter not recruiting well than anything else.

 

[TC4THREE]

No, I want him to outperform whoever the coaches are at Butler and Xavier, and beat one of those teams, not just once (but once would be a good start) but consistently. I want him to perform as well as the dozens of other coaches who consistently get to Sweet Sixteens. I want him to do what Shaka Smart did at VCU; what Tom Cream achieved at Marquette. I want him to do ONE STINKING TIME what Tom Izzo seems to do as easily as falling off the couch, just one time and I would be off his back.

You've got issues.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

Yeah, I think that's more of an indication of Painter not recruiting well than anything else.

Yes, he has taken a flyer on many kids who didn't really deserve it...and that's why he had two really shitty seasons with no NCAA tournament appearances. Hopefully, he's learned his lesson.

 

[cprh9u]

I think Crean and Painter end up in about the same level if you want to rank coaches. Crean gets where he is because he can recruit. It's a fairly consistent inflow of burger boys and high four stars. Painter does not recruit at that level but does manage to get a bit more out of the recruits he has. To say his accomplishments are better...I guess that depends on what is important to you. To say Crean is better than Painter needs some very specific qualifications to go with it, and vice-versa. I would rather have Painter than a coach who behaves like a tool all the time. I value not being embarrassed by my alma matter. If someone can convince me we can get a coach better at both aspects without embarrassing the school and alumni then by all means change away.

In less years in the B1G, Crean has twice the B1G championships (both outright to Painter sharing by the way) and 50% more Sweet 16's. Plus a final 4 before on his resume. I agree he is strange, and I wouldn't want him as my HC in an ideal situation, but I would take him over Painter. He at least has shown ability to contend for a championship.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

I would take him over Painter.

 

[TC4THREE]

In less years in the B1G, Crean has twice the B1G championships (both outright to Painter sharing by the way) and 50% more Sweet 16's. Plus a final 4 before on his resume. I agree he is strange, and I wouldn't want him as my HC in an ideal situation, but I would take him over Painter. He at least has shown ability to contend for a championship.

If you flipped the two coaches, Painter would do better at IU and Crean would do worse at Purdue. As much as people here don't want to admit it, there are some distinct advantages to recruiting at IU, particularly within the state. I don't think kids care about the championships that were won before they were born but in most areas of the state the recruits are surrounded by IU fans that try to push them to Bloomington and, even if they can't land them, away from West Lafayette.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

In less years in the B1G, Crean has twice the B1G championships (both outright to Painter sharing by the way) and 50% more Sweet 16's. Plus a final 4 before on his resume. I agree he is strange, and I wouldn't want him as my HC in an ideal situation, but I would take him over Painter. He at least has shown ability to contend for a championship.

And now it has finally come out. No true Boiler would ever take Crean over any coach we had. You've outted yourself and pretty much shot any credibility you thought you had.

I figured as much, but now it's a proven fact. Go back to peegs.

 

[BoilerGal74]

No, I want him to outperform whoever the coaches are at Butler and Xavier, and beat one of those teams, not just once (but once would be a good start) but consistently. I want him to perform as well as the dozens of other coaches who consistently get to Sweet Sixteens. I want him to do what Shaka Smart did at VCU; what Tom Cream achieved at Marquette. I want him to do ONE STINKING TIME what Tom Izzo seems to do as easily as falling off the couch, just one time and I would be off his back.

"Achieve what Tom Crean achieved at Marquette"????? I obviously have read hoops fans posts re: Crean from a totally different Marquette than you... I have heard no one from Marquette say they want Crean back.

 

[Dakota Girl]

In less years in the B1G, Crean has twice the B1G championships (both outright to Painter sharing by the way) and 50% more Sweet 16's. Plus a final 4 before on his resume. I agree he is strange, and I wouldn't want him as my HC in an ideal situation, but I would take him over Painter. He at least has shown ability to contend for a championship.

I guess we have different values.

 

[88btfu92]

OK. What transfer went on to great things under the tuteledge of another coach?
Crickets.
Now think about the players who became solid contributors in their junior and senior years.
Say he doesn't recruit well enough to be a perineal final four coach and I will not argue. But to say he is not good at coaching them up is simply ridiculous.

Who said they did? Not me. I said Painter did nothing with them and he recruited them in the first place. So a fail on recruiting and a fail on developing. How's those crickets taste?

 

[TOKenBoiler]

Who said they did? Not me. I said Painter did nothing with them and he recruited them in the first place. So a fail on recruiting and a fail on developing. How's those crickets taste?

Your entire post reads as follows:
"Painter gets more out of the recruits he has? False. Painter doesn't know how to polish a raw player. They usually transfer."

Says nothing about recruiting. Says he can't develop "raw players" and those players end up transferring. So, a reasonable question is did they do something after they left Purdue? The answer, which you admit, is "no." Now, you want to talk about recruiting to cover your epic fail regarding Painter's ability to develop players. Nice try. You can keep the crickets.

 

[mathboy]

In less years in the B1G, Crean has twice the B1G championships (both outright to Painter sharing by the way) and 50% more Sweet 16's. Plus a final 4 before on his resume. I agree he is strange, and I wouldn't want him as my HC in an ideal situation, but I would take him over Painter. He at least has shown ability to contend for a championship.

What the hell is wrong with you? You would take that clown at IU over Painter? You are one demented dude! Your statistics are based on IU's success from last year. You are exhibiting very short term vision here.

Look, Crean has huge issues with other coaches in the BIG, and with the Indiana high school and AAU programs. He embarrasses the university about once a year. He recruits over kids and discards his upper classmen on a regular basis, so often that the process carries his name. I think he is an embarrassment to IU and to the BIG.

Yes, last year his choke artist point guard finally grew up and managed to win a few games with what was a historically weak BIG schedule. Without this year's run, your statistics (and probably your strange desire to have that clown at Purdue) would not exist. I say hold your water and wait a year. See what happens this season.

 

[Hoogolf]

What the hell is wrong with you? You would take that clown at IU over Painter? You are one demented dude! Your statistics are based on IU's success from last year. You are exhibiting very short term vision here.

Look, Crean has huge issues with other coaches in the BIG, and with the Indiana high school and AAU programs. He embarrasses the university about once a year. He recruits over kids and discards his upper classmen on a regular basis, so often that the process carries his name. I think he is an embarrassment to IU and to the BIG.

Yes, last year his choke artist point guard finally grew up and managed to win a few games with what was a historically weak BIG schedule. Without this year's run, your statistics (and probably your strange desire to have that clown at Purdue) would not exist. I say hold your water and wait a year. See what happens this season.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what you said. I'm an IU fan, but not a Crean fan. He's our coach so I support him, but the day he is not, I will have a big smile on my face. I also like CMP, even though I think he has some weaknesses in running a program too. I know you post on peegs free boards. If you want a true answer whether IU fans would rather have Painter or Crean, ask it on Peegs. It would be interesting to see the results.

 

[BBG]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what you said. I'm an IU fan, but not a Crean fan. He's our coach so I support him, but the day he is not, I will have a big smile on my face. I also like CMP, even though I think he has some weaknesses in running a program too. I know you post on peegs free boards. If you want a true answer whether IU fans would rather have Painter or Crean, ask it on Peegs. It would be interesting to see the results.

Who gives two craps what anyone on peegs thinks?

 

[Hoogolf]

Who gives two craps what anyone on peegs thinks?

Lol ok. Calm down, it was just a question. Why get defensive?

 

[BBG]

Lol ok. Calm down, it was just a question. Why get defensive?

Not defensive at all, just stating a fact.

 

[Hoogolf]

Not defensive at all, just stating a fact.

Well I did say, if you wanted an "IU fans" opinion about the topic (it was suggested above that IU fans would rather have Painter), ask it on Peegs. As he frequents the site and he does post. In fact, I typically like Math's posts for one simple reason, he's reasonable. That's a fact too. So yes, posters on peeg's (IU rival site) site would matter in the conversation. But I guess you confused it for "trolling". Keep monitoring the boards. You are quite good at that. And that is a fact.

 

[BBG]

Well I did say, if you wanted an "IU fans" opinion about the topic (it was suggested above that IU fans would rather have Painter), ask it on Peegs. As he frequents the site and he does post. In fact, I typically like Math's posts for one simple reason, he's reasonable. That's a fact too. So yes, posters on peeg's (IU rival site) site would matter in the conversation. But I guess you confused it for "trolling". Keep monitoring the boards. You are quite good at that. And that is a fact.

*yawn* my point still remains.