Indiana State at Purdue: MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD
- Thread starter Travis Miller
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Yes a rebuild. That team lost lots of key players and the last two recruiting classes of that coach were, at best, mediocre and towards the bottom of the conference. We saw it in how weak the WRs and corners were last season and how we had key holes in both lines and of course, not enough quality LBs.
There were certainly some key spots we had good players but if we don't get Card, QB would have been mediocre at best too.
I get folks don't like Walters. I have not decided whether he's ready or not. But to suggest this was anything other than a rebuild I'm sorry it's just nonsense.
It’s a false narrative. A rebuild? Please.
It’s only a rebuild because we chose to hire a guy who runs a scheme that’s untenable at the P4 level with the talent we will get vs the talent we will face.
Yeah not the team I watched last night. We have a handful of players who have the talent to one day play for ND. I hope we don’t lose like 56-7. Im sure some may try to slam Walters for a blowout. It’s mfing stupid that we still play ND when the conference schedule gives us 3 top ten teams. We shouldn’t even be playing them.
Who did you think was coming here lol
Let’s examine Purdue
> near the very very VERY bottom of the 18 team conference historically
> ditto in recruiting dollars
> we schedule like we are a national power
I bet a bunch of guys laughed their ass off before they called Walters. If you’re a guy who is known as an innovative genius OR proven that you’re going to be good; why would you come to Purdue? To play Notre dame when Luke griffin and Drew Biber actually get playing time?
ND was on the schedule for 2024 lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng before we were set to play 3 other Top 10 teams.
Scheduling just seems to be something no one can agree on. We play 3 patsies and half the crowd complains because that's what Indinia does, not us. We play a tough schedule and the other half complains because we're not that good and can't compete with that schedule. It's a no-win situation, especially considering non-conference schedules are sometimes set as much as a decade in advance.
No the win situation is to play patsies and bowl games to build buzz and a tradition that leads to better recruits and so on.
If a handful of folks don't like it, they will like years of tough schedules and 4-5 win seasons even less.
Yep, football scheduling is gonna be a whole lot different now that we have a 12-team playoff and two super conferences. We're going to see a lot more like Lincoln Riley at USC, who is trying to get ND off the schedule after 2026. Every school in the SEC and Big Ten will be facing 2-3-4 top ten teams every year.
It was a rebuild before that bud. The defense was a joke. The offense bereft of playmakers. You're mad because you wanted some super offensive genius to come and maybe squeak out six wins.
I have no idea if Walters is the guy. I do know the talent level ok the team has improved significantly over what was there when Brohm left.
I also know if Brohm kept recruiting like he did his last two seasons, we'd all be calling for his head right about now.
The Indiana approach is logical if you aren’t a power. You just look stupid if you still don’t win 6 games. I know we scheduled ND long ago. At the very least we should have gotten out of Oregon state and replaced them with a fish
In the Portal era, you need to be able to rebuild every year. Rebuilds can’t take more than 2 years max.
I’m a proponent of 2 gimmes and then 1 challenge in the non-con.
Because Beavers eat fish? I think there's more into "getting out of Oregon State" than you might think. Especially now that they don't have a conference.
Scheme is fine. Walters is fine but inexperienced as a head coach. Had to rebuild from Brohm leaving us hanging.
I can’t stand our scheduling. It’s stupid. Now, if they came out and said that the bowls could select any big ten or SEC for a bowl if they have at least four wins, great.
Scheme will 100% be our downfall this year. We have the guys, just not experienced enough to handle 80+ plays of single coverage with no help.
God forbid injuries happen like they did last year.
We should help our good young corners, not expose them.
Who were the quality players that returned. I’m down to discuss this with an open mind. Are you?
Sure. And Walter’s did well in his one fall portal period. Why the team is so much better this year.
I agree with him that you should be able to do it. However, if you’re Purdue, you’re investing minimal resources compared to the big boys. So you should actually be moving backwards.
Who? Every single team? It's a universal truth? Based on what? Why is it 2 versus 1? Or 3? Is that an average or the same for everyone?
Does SOS matter to this equation at all? What defines a rebuild v not a rebuild? Is it just making a bowl game versus not?
If someone wants to make an argument for why this team, with this talent, in this conference, with this schedule should be at some specific point at some specific time, I'm all ears. Certainly history shows Purdue can make a bowl game, sometimes. So, sooner or later you have to get there or make way for someone else to try. Walters certainly can't not do it forever.
But making a lazy generalization is not something I'm all that interested in.
Successful 1-2 year rebuilds are pretty common in the portal era. You can’t count on having kids around for 3-4 years anymore.
“hey when Nic’s a junior, we’ll be really strong up front….”
And Walter’s has had one fall portal period. So we are at like year 1.5.
We’ll know if he’s the guy or not by the end of this season IMO.
I think the offense will be good enough, but he’s going to need to prove his mettle on the defensive side.
Eh, I think the end of next season, unless he tanks this year and wins like 2-3. Then I’ll be more concerned. I do think he’s the guy tbh. I’d expect both the offense and defense to make a jump this year. That’s just from looking at the team and the historical trends of both coordinators.
I would hold Texas’ coach to two years. Ole Miss. Purdue is in a group of schools long term that are trying to hold on to what they have. This offseason players came for playing time and for a better situation. Next year Purdue may be in a spot where they’d be coming OR staying for cash. Purdue doesn’t have a lot of rich alum who care enough about sports to just pay football players big money. Therefore whether it’s Walters or anyone else I’m not going to expect big things in two years. If we can just get to 6 wins annually I’ll be happy. Next years schedule, sure, 7. I’m not about to be like “oh Walters went 6-6 and 7-5? Where are my 10 wins” lol
The "portal era" is 6 years old and define "pretty common." You've run the numbers on successful rebuilds in 1-2 years so what's the percentage? What defines successful? Does SOS matter?
I don’t think Purdue should be able to do it. I will hold zero coaches accountable for annual free agency with no contracts and no rules.
By “you” I meant “a team.”
A team should be able to rebuild in two years. Here’s what it takes
> a good coach - we might have one, I like him
> the straight cash to keep all of your key players - Purdue didn’t have that this offseason
> cash to be a buyer in free agency. Purdue got good portal and high school classes, but really more as a function of having a lot of prime playing time to give out. Of course Walters really does well in old school recruiting.
But, let’s take a closer look…
We don’t have a middle linebacker who can hold his own and has speed side to side in case Jenkins doesn’t work out. (And he might!) Yanni has been eh, even though I always have the highest hopes for any karlaftis. Luke griffin and Drew Biber have scholarships here. That’s all fine. In 2009 griffin and Biber would have been better than half the roster.
But can you honestly say that Purdue wouldn’t have at least a Joe Odom type ready to step on the field and challenge Jenkins for time if they had cash to rebuild? At much of Purdues competition Jenkins might get his chance at MLB. But with a player who is Niko Koutouvides good ready to take his snaps if it doesn’t go well
This coming offseason the vultures will be coming for everyone good on every Purdue. Bringing in players who can’t start right away will take money. Money Purdue likely won’t spend (no I’m not saying that will spend $0, just a lot less than most)
Purdue isn’t ole miss. They can rebuild in two years. I just hope Purdue keeps what they have.
You CAN do it. I won’t hold Purdue accountable to it until something changes
Yeah this is a ridiculous take. If he gets like 2 wins or 8 wins then we might know, otherwise 4-6 wins is all in the realm of average coaching plus some luck (bad to good).
Again what does rebuild mean? If it means wins then does facing a top ten schedule not matter at all? Yes money matters too and we are near the bottom of major schools there. Other teams are too.
There are a lot of factors and not one bit of data to show that it only takes 1-2 years (evidence?) to rebuild (, definition?) in the "portal era" (only 6 years old and NIL is even more recent).
You're right it was a rebuild. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. Once a coach leaves, players are gone in a blink. You can't stop that.
At the same time, I agree with thow who say a 2 year rebuild is a reasonable expectation in the portal era. 1 year to patch it up and see where you are. 1 year to prove you can recruit and thay your system works.
I'll go further and say if you can prove your system works in year 2, then you get year 3 to prove you can win. To me, getting to 6-6 would prove his system works. Even if he finishes 6-7 withq a blowout bowl loss.
Losing seasons in year 3 should get coaches fired automatically. 5-7 would be unacceptable and even 6-6 is a disappointment.
You don’t think any of these guys came for cash and playing time? They absolutely got paid. The reason Walter’s has NIL to work with, quite a bit really, is because Walter’s has gone out and fundraised like crazy. I’d be willing to guess Purdue football NIL is in the middle of the big ten. I think Purdue football is around 7.5 mil. Walter’s inherited under a mil in NIL. Purdue can compete in NIL enough to be top half the big ten every year. They landed players this year that they wouldn’t have had a chance at last year because of NIL.
If you expect them to compete with osu and Oregon, then you have too high of expectations. They have never competed with them. Even before NIL. They can absolutely be better than their peers though.
Did you read what I wrote? A program can CAN CAN rebuild in two years. If they have the money to do it. For Purdue that would mean getting back to 8-4 even with a tough schedule a la brohm. Next year
But Purdue doesn’t spend that kinda money. So I’m good with a team who plays hard and smart and does their best. If that’s 6-6 next year, great.
If Purdue had spent the money to keep Scourton and buy a good fast linebacker my expectations of Walters would be very different
Some guys got paid. I’d still be willing to bet Purdue is near the bottom in big cash deals.
For me to expect a coach to do x, y and z id have to see all the good things I saw, while also retaining Scourton and buying an athletic middle linebacker.
They did retain scourton and he agreed to a deal. Nice deal. Until A&M illegally tampered and paid him stupid money. Which is whatever. But that would have probably happened if NIL wasn’t a thing. Purdue kept a bunch of players from the portal with NIL. It isn’t unrealistic to think Purdue will have 10 mill for football next year.
Sounds like they might be trying to get out of these stupid games scheduled in the future.
I’m just saying there are levels. There are schools who would say “Nic we can match that. No big deal.” I think it’s fair for the fans of those schools to expect all these wins.
I’m gonna be happy with 6 wins and thriled with 7+ till something changes like tv money being used to pay players
Which, tv money is coming, but again, when has Purdue ever competed with A&M? They haven’t. But that doesn’t hurt Purdue in comparison to their peers.
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