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Indiana Gov. Holcomb signs permitless carry bill

Level 42 said:
Castle doctrine though goes right to your statement in regards to harming your family. No, can't shoot them in the back as they are running away, but in the act of harm? Yes. And really if you are out in public and see it happening you can defend the other person being harmed.

I get what you are saying however and I researched the crap out of this when I first started carrying so I would know my rights. And here is something else to add, if you shoot you don't shoot to maim or just injure because then you set yourself up for litigation.

No one is looking to just turn things in to the old west, but with as many lunatic lefties that there are in the world, a person should protect themselves.
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I get that part. However, a jury of your "peers" is scary. Remember, there were 81 million counted votes for Biden. That is indicative of a mental maturiy of a 13 year old in at least some of Biden's interests. Want that mindset determining your future? Somewhere there needs to be a deterent to someone violating you outside of the threat to kill you that must be strong enough to successfully be a deterent. Thought I would share here a bit on Ghost Guns from his father's email that got some attention recently from a person that has built a few guns and was at least a few years ago recognized for his pistol markmanship in some national competition---

Any COMPLETE receiver/frame would be serialized by the manufacturer and need to be transferred by a dealer. These "ghost guns" are 80% complete recievers/frames that can be purchased by anyone, and they do not have serial numbers, because they are not firearms. A non-liscened individual can complete these receivers and are not required to mark them with a SN or any other info. Any FFL completing one is required to mark their info, create a SN and record them in their acquisition and disposition records, like any other firearm.

An 80% receiver is NOT a firearm by ATF's own definitions and they approved the sale of them many years ago. Nothing has changed there, yet.

The laws that pertain to the manufacturing and marking requirements come from the Gun Control Act of 1968. Those are laws, not bullshit ATF "Rules" or executive orders. Manufacturing firearms for personal use is 100% legal and they are not required to be marked. If they want to regulate this, they need to amend the GCA68 laws.

While I do believe there are probably some of these firearms being manufactured by nefarious individuals, I do not believe it is as pervasive as they claim. And what the hell difference will it make? Criminals are criminals for a reason. These new proposed "rules" will do nothing to stop them and will only burden the law abiding firearm owners and the FFL dealers.
 
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BNIBoiler said:
This guy is a nut and hates everyone even blacks. Bigot, prejudice perhaps. He and other blacks and minorities do not control the housing, banking, education entities, employment etc. Therefore not a racist by definition.
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WTF? He isn't a racist by definition? I don't control any of thos eeither so if i called you a ********************************************* that wouldn't be racist in your eyes then? I bet you would have a different view. You are a truly screwed up person. You may be the next idiot we read about in the papers doing something stupid.
 
BuilderBob6 said:
The second amendment refers to being armed because it's necessary for a well regulated militia.......which is necessary for a free state.

Should I be able to buy a bazooka? Should insane people be able to buy a handgun? How about criminals? What does the second amendment say about those?
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You realize that despite this new IN bill, all people buying guns legally at places with a FFL still need to have a federal background check done, right?
 
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BNIBoiler said:
Black nationalist? He is no black nationalist. You conveniently left out that he was against everyone, whites, blacks, Jews, Latinos. He said that people of color are a bunch of turds in a toilet. Said that we need more racial profiling. Said that black women should be forcibly sterilized. This dude is crazier than cat doo doo.
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Sounds like he is a misanthrope. He needs to be put down for good - a true danger to society.
 
Crayfish57 said:
WTF? He isn't a racist by definition? I don't control any of thos eeither so if i called you a ********************************************* that wouldn't be racist in your eyes then? I bet you would have a different view. You are a truly screwed up person. You may be the next idiot we read about in the papers doing something stupid.
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Yeah that would be racist because racism is simply race prejudice plus power. If you are white then that would be racist. People of color do not have the ability to be racist because they do not have the power to back up their prejudices, hostilities or acts of discrimination. Don't get me wrong people of color can be prejudice and bigots towards other people.
 
BNIBoiler said:
Racism or to be a racist involves power and control from one group of people over another. The term racist is often used loosely to describe individuals. If you want to call this fool and others like him a racist, that is fine. I don't have too much issue with it, even though he has said some crazy stuff about black people also. Reason why I hate to label him as a racist. He seems like a self hater as well. I just want to set the record straight to what true racism is. This fool seems to be more of an individualist. This guy dances to the beat of another drum. I wouldn't lump him as being a black nationalist as I doubt that he belongs to any organization.
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He belongs to the racist Nation of Islam organization, or at least he used to.
 
SDBoiler1 said:
You realize that despite this new IN bill, all people buying guns legally at places with a FFL still need to have a federal background check done, right?
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Yes, but what I am not clear on is that if you buy or given a gun by friend, cousin, Joe Blow etc. What happens? My main concern is what I read about the potential problems and concerns police agencies have expressed with dealing with all the non-permit guns out there during traffic stops home encounters etc.
 
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SDBoiler1 said:
He belongs to the racist Nation of Islam organization, or at least he used to.
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Who knows if that is true or not. I'm sure he liked their talk on race separation and stuff. Whether a member, former member or not, what he did, the Nation of Islam doesn't condone. If he was a member perhaps they kicked him out. This dude is crazier than cat doo doo.
 
BNIBoiler said:
Yeah that would be racist because racism is simply race prejudice plus power. If you are white then that would be racist. People of color do not have the ability to be racist because they do not have the power to back up their prejudices, hostilities or acts of discrimination. Don't get me wrong people of color can be prejudice and bigots towards other people.
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So in your world one is OK and one isnt. If I am in a black neighborhood you dont have power so its OK to call me a cracker or whatever racial epitath? I am smart enough not to be there but it's still ok to you. I don't know what others there are and honestly could give a shit what anyone calls me but just trying to figure this out?
 
purdave said:
The head of the Indiana State Police came out against this and said it will put police officers at risk.
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I’m aware, it still was a thoughtful answer by Pat, I appreciated it. Like I said, I don’t really agree with it but it’s not something that I’m going to go nuts over either.
 
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Crayfish57 said:
So in your world one is OK and one isnt. If I am in a black neighborhood you dont have power so its OK to call me a cracker or whatever racial epitath? I am smart enough not to be there but it's still ok to you. I don't know what others there are and honestly could give a shit what anyone calls me but just trying to figure this out?
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No sir. That is not what I'm saying. Like I said people of color can be prejudice and bigots and that is never ok. Racism just takes prejudice/bigotry combined with power. Perfect example was the old Apartheid regime in South Africa years ago. The white people were the minority as far as population. However, the white people were in control of the government from the president on down. Police, housing, banking were all controlled by the whites. They had tremendous power over majority black people. The racism was overwhelming there for decades. Mandela, a revolutionist was considered a communist and jailed for 30 years or so.
 
BNIBoiler said:
Cops ain’t on board with this. Do you see the potential issue when it comes to law enforcement?
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Uhm, no... Because the Sheriff of our community is. And I know many other officers are in support. This survey of police officers demonstrates that. What I don't understand is how this will impact law enforcement, at all.

And with regard to the ISP Superintendent's concerns, if you LEGALLY own a handgun and carry it, what difference does it make if you have a permit or not? And how the hell would the ISP even know you were carrying unless they searched you in a LEGAL manner, which means you were literally being arrested for something. And if you are arrested, all they have to do is a federal background check to ensure you qualify to possess a handgun. It literally takes 15 minutes to do it. How the hell is that any more burdensome on them???

"More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable.

A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent)."

www.police1.com

Police Gun Control Survey: Are legally-armed citizens the best solution to gun violence?

When it comes to reducing gun violence in America, nobody else in the country has anything close to the experience-based perspective from which cops can speak
www.police1.com www.police1.com
 
purdave said:
The head of the Indiana State Police came out against this and said it will put police officers at risk.
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The absolute ONLY argument the ISP Superintendent has is that it takes away a screening tool for them. It's nothing but a convenience factor for the State Police. You show them you have a permit card, and they don't have to do any other work. And that's bullshit.

The question I have is if you are LEGALLY able to possess a handgun, and you're carrying in a responsible, concealed manner, how would the ISP even know you're carrying? Unless they legally, or illegally, search you. And generally that's going to happen when you get arrested. And if you get arrested and you're carrying a handgun, it literally takes them 15 minutes to do a federal background check to ensure you're legally able to possess that handgun.

So I call bullshit on the need for permits for those LEGALLY able to possess a handgun just so the ISP doesn't have to be inconvenienced...
 
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“People of color do not have the ability to be racist because they do not have the power to back up their prejudices, hostilities or acts of discrimination.”

Well that explains it then. I guess that’s why the media never reports a black person of being a racist.
 
SKYDOG said:
“People of color do not have the ability to be racist because they do not have the power to back up their prejudices, hostilities or acts of discrimination.”

Well that explains it then. I guess that’s why the media never reports a black person of being a racist.
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Where do you see a black person being racist?
 
BNIBoiler said:
Where do you see a black person being racist?
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How about a NYC subway a day ago?

If racism can only occur if the oppressor has power over the oppressed, as you suggest (I think that concept is bullshit for the record), wouldn’t holding a gun to someone’s head and having the ability to take their life be the ultimate form of power over another?
 
SDBoiler1 said:
You realize that despite this new IN bill, all people buying guns legally at places with a FFL still need to have a federal background check done, right?
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I do. So? I don't understand your point.

And the people that already have guns.......including trailer park Abner who has a 22 from grandpa...... don't have to get a background check or any training.
 
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BuilderBob6 said:
I do. So? I don't understand your point.

And the people that already have guns.......including trailer park Abner who has a 22 from grandpa...... don't have to get a background check or any training.
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You're reaching big time. If Abner has a domestic abuse restraining order or is a felon, he'd be breaking the law by possessing the weapon regardless of a background check. So he'd be a criminal in possession of a weapon. So what's your point? And what does it have to do with concealed carry? And how would requiring a concealed carry permit keep Abner from illegally carrying the weapon he shouldn't have?
 
SKYDOG said:
Well I worked with a few over the years. I’ve also noticed that blacks seem to attack and kill Asian people for little to no reason.
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Blacks have no animosity towards Asians. But I do know the person that killed those Asian women in those massage parlors in TX was a white dude.
 
purduepat1969 said:
You're reaching big time. If Abner has a domestic abuse restraining order or is a felon, he'd be breaking the law by possessing the weapon regardless of a background check. So he'd be a criminal in possession of a weapon. So what's your point? And what does it have to do with concealed carry? And how would requiring a concealed carry permit keep Abner from illegally carrying the weapon he shouldn't have?
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Ask SD. I don't know what his point was either. It had nothing to do with open or concealed carry. I was simply saying there are all kinds of people who get guns in this country without getting a background check, including people that aren't criminals. Private transactions happen all the time.......all it takes is one in the chain to allow that gun to get in the hands of criminals.

My point to you earlier was concealed carry insures people have more training than open carry. I don't know how that's possibly debatable. There will be more untrained people carrying guns because of this law. I'm sure that's fine with you.
 
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purduepat1969 said:
You're reaching big time. If Abner has a domestic abuse restraining order or is a felon, he'd be breaking the law by possessing the weapon regardless of a background check. So he'd be a criminal in possession of a weapon. So what's your point? And what does it have to do with concealed carry? And how would requiring a concealed carry permit keep Abner from illegally carrying the weapon he shouldn't have?
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There is a special disconnect to reality when someone can somehow convince themselves or at least others that gun control prevents killers from killing people, but cannot begin to grasp the huge problem of illegal border crossings with aliens from many different countries...social misfits, violent felons, drug suppliers and no doubt highly probable sleeper cells from terrorists countries that have declared war on the USA.

Imagine growing a threat and advocating the removal of a potential defense to that threat in order to grow dependence on the government. Recognition of such, means you have crossed over into the Twilight Zone...

 
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BuilderBob6 said:
Ask SD. I don't know what his point was either. It had nothing to do with open or concealed carry. I was simply saying there are all kinds of people who get guns in this country without getting a background check, including people that aren't criminals. Private transactions happen all the time.......all it takes is one in the chain to allow that gun to get in the hands of criminals.

My point to you earlier was concealed carry insures people have more training than open carry. I don't know how that's possibly debatable. There will be more untrained people carrying guns because of this law. I'm sure that's fine with you.
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I had no formal training for my conceal permit. Had a BB gun around 6 or 7, a 22 cal by 10 and hunted bear with a 35 remington by age 12 that Parker let me use in Canada. This man (Parker), my father and brother-in-law provided what might be called "training".

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Obama has ties to former Flora teacher - Carroll County Comet

What does presidential candidate Barack Obama have in common with a former teacher at Flora Elementary School? Turns out, they’re related. Sen. Obama and the late Parker Dunham, who taught at Flora in the 1960s, are descended from the same early settler in Tipton County. Obama connected with his...
www.carrollcountycomet.com www.carrollcountycomet.com
 
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tjreese said:
I had no formal training for my conceal permit. Had a BB gun around 6 or 7, a 22 cal by 10 and hunted bear with a 35 remington by age 12 that Parker let me use in Canada. This man (Parker), my father and brother-in-law provided what might be called "training".

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Obama has ties to former Flora teacher - Carroll County Comet

What does presidential candidate Barack Obama have in common with a former teacher at Flora Elementary School? Turns out, they’re related. Sen. Obama and the late Parker Dunham, who taught at Flora in the 1960s, are descended from the same early settler in Tipton County. Obama connected with his...
www.carrollcountycomet.com www.carrollcountycomet.com
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Good for you.

Some states require instruction, safety course, and live fire training to concealed carry. Some require only a pulse. Others are everything in between.
 
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BuilderBob6 said:
Good for you.

Some states require instruction, safety course, and live fire training to concealed carry. Some require only a pulse. Others are everything in between.
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I know but there are a lot of older people that never had to pay the government for training, only for a license. Training is for dogs. Education is for humans. Unfortunately, that line of demarcation gets blurred by much of the country
 
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BNIBoiler said:
Blacks have no animosity towards Asians. But I do know the person that killed those Asian women in those massage parlors in TX was a white dude.
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Not so sure about blacks not targeting Asians.


www.americanthinker.com

There's an unspoken reason that Blacks are attacking Asian people

Woom Sing Tse arrived in America from Communist China almost 50 years ago with $100 to his name and worked his way up to owning a successful restaurant. On Wednesday, a 23-year-old Black career criminal executed him on Chicago's street...
www.americanthinker.com www.americanthinker.com
 
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tjreese said:
I know but there are a lot of older people that never had to pay the government for training, only for a license. Training is for dogs. Education is for humans. Unfortunately, that line of demarcation gets blurred by much of the country
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You can relax, spare your outrage. In most states classes are by private companies accredited by the state. The $100 doesn't go to the evil government to buy lunch for illegals crossing at he border.

Call it training, call it education. Either way, a minimum amount of effort to learn about the lethal weapon you want to carry around is a small price to pay in a civilized society.
 
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BuilderBob6 said:
You can relax, spare your outrage. In most states classes are by private companies accredited by the state. The $100 doesn't go to the evil government to buy lunch for illegals crossing at he border.

Call it training, call it education. Either way, a minimum amount of effort to learn about the lethal weapon you want to carry around is a small price to pay in a civilized society.
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You don’t have a clue what it takes to get a pistol permit in many blue states. The steps/hurdles put in front of people are onerous and only serve to keep people from getting permits. The training required in CT really doesn’t make people safer in using weapons. I know - I’ve taken the required training and saw how people handled weapons even after taking the training. The way people get safer is by actually using weapons in shooting ranges - actually firing weapons in a supervised environment.
 
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BuilderBob6 said:
You can relax, spare your outrage. In most states classes are by private companies accredited by the state. The $100 doesn't go to the evil government to buy lunch for illegals crossing at he border.

Call it training, call it education. Either way, a minimum amount of effort to learn about the lethal weapon you want to carry around is a small price to pay in a civilized society.
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It's unfortunate that the difference between training and education was lost on you. That was a generic statement and not tied to anything specific. Your confusion was on full display when I stated your concern of more gun control absent any help to your ultimate goal of preventing deaths by murders was minuscule when compared to the real threat present with illegal crossings of millions we know nothing about. Then your overall attempt to create a red herring was just icing on the cake. God help you, because I can't
 
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