Thus is so true. You don't pay a price when you press against Purdue other than maybe getting tired.
Over the last few weeks of the season did Purdue score one basket off transition while being pressed? I can't remember one.
Ideas and thoughts about next year thread
- Thread starter purduedavie
- Start date
Over the last few weeks of the season did Purdue score one basket off transition while being pressed? I can't remember one.
But that's not what we're talking about. It's not that guys are afraid of getting benched, They want to play so they are pressing. It's not a tough guy thing.
Guys that are getting limited minutes tend to try and make things happen in those limited minutes. it often results in guys playing outside of their capabilities, When this happens the results aren't good and then confidence comes into play and it spirals out of control. You could see it in Newman the last two years and I believe you could see it with TKR throughout this year.
Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of guys who had a down year after getting their minutes cut, then transferred and their percentages went back up. Hell Stephens shot 43% from three at Nevada. Wheeler shot 39% from three at St Johns. Why is that? Lighting?
Two thoughts. I've said them before and people called me crazy.
1. Players who are highly rated players out of high school who still have dreams of playing professionally, typically transfer to another school if they are not starting by the end of their sophomore year. This s true for all schools, not just Purdue. Look at the red shirt thread. Most Purdue players that redshirt don't stay for 5 years. if they can't crack the starting 5, they leave. Players who have pro dreams no longer have loyalty to their schools and stick around to warm the bench and be back-ups. I look for 1-3 Purdue players entering the portal. I look for a lot of other players from other schools entering the portal as well.
2. Freshmen can start and be successful , and also be successful in the tournament. Look around. There are a lot of freshmen who are having success. and a lot of freshmen who had tournament success in the past on OTHER teams. Purdue laid an egg against FDU. But it wasn't just our freshmen who had a bad game. When you look at a typical high school player, they play high school games, and essentially 3 seasons of AAU ball. it's not a matter of being tired out. It's a matter of being used properly.
1. Players who are highly rated players out of high school who still have dreams of playing professionally, typically transfer to another school if they are not starting by the end of their sophomore year. This s true for all schools, not just Purdue. Look at the red shirt thread. Most Purdue players that redshirt don't stay for 5 years. if they can't crack the starting 5, they leave. Players who have pro dreams no longer have loyalty to their schools and stick around to warm the bench and be back-ups. I look for 1-3 Purdue players entering the portal. I look for a lot of other players from other schools entering the portal as well.
2. Freshmen can start and be successful , and also be successful in the tournament. Look around. There are a lot of freshmen who are having success. and a lot of freshmen who had tournament success in the past on OTHER teams. Purdue laid an egg against FDU. But it wasn't just our freshmen who had a bad game. When you look at a typical high school player, they play high school games, and essentially 3 seasons of AAU ball. it's not a matter of being tired out. It's a matter of being used properly.
Actually, well thought out remarks. That’s why I want Renn to be the 4 as of right now, if Edey comes back (big if) no way he returns playing 11 minutes a game. Furst played close to 20 minutes, think he can get that playing backup to both if Zach returns, Caleb and Renn are the two highest ranked players, I like them both. Agree, think we’ll see a player or two leave, three transfers seems high end, I’d put the over/under on 2.
Some really good responses, sure nice to see well thought out responses, give me this anyday over the fire Painter stuff. Look, Purdue isn’t firing a Coach coming off a Big Ten regular and tournament title season in a so called rebuilding year. I realize the loss was embarrassing, however, Purdue was a young team, future looks bright, firing Painter and the team starts all over, I don’t want to see that. Having said that, it is time for Matt to change things up a bit, please get a bonafide ball handler capable of helping Smith out and capable of hitting an outside shot. Maybe it’s a Heide or Colvin, I still add a transfer guy just in case.
I concluded 4-6 weeks ago Sweet 16 at best (I wasn't thinking one and done). I'm sticking with the thought that we were a year away. 2023-2024 will say a lot about Matt Painter as a coach and how they pick themselves up after such a humiliating defeat.
Get rid of Newman, Morton, Gillis, and Waddell. None are going to take a big shot against the worst team ever to play in the NCAA tournament, let alone make one. Portal and NIL have to be the biggest priority or else Painter needs to go too.
Agree that there are a lot of questions to be answered at the 4/5 spot if Zach returns. For as dominant as Zach was this past year, I wouldn't mind him playing slightly fewer minutes in 2023 - 2024 (somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 mpg). That would allow Zach to take less cumulative abuse as the season goes on but also to allow Trey and Caleb more experience being featured in the offense.
As an aside, the timing of the portal dates relative to NBA decision dates will be interesting. I believe that portal entrants for basketball need to find a school by 5/11 while final NBA entry decisions come significantly later.
Agree with the other poster that this is a succinct and well stated post.
It will be very interesting to see who stays and who goes. If Zach returns there's certainly a chance that Trey, Caleb or Mason transfers. Something to be said for playing a role on what would be a top five team, but that's a big ask for the second year in a row. I'd be shocked to see Braden or Fletcher go anywhere, even if MP brings in a transfer guard, but Brandon is potentially in play. I would be very surprised to see Ethan go.
Agree that freshmen can be successful and that our freshmen had a successful season. I'm not aware of any schools playing two freshmen who where not five star recruits (read very physically mature) as many minutes as we did, going deep in the tournament. Agree that it's Braden and Fletcher's fault, the problem is that we didn't have a better alternative and no one else stepped up.
Bradon and Loyer are likely starters, probably need to play less minutes though, 30 a night is too much. I agree about Edey’s minutes as well, if he returns I hope the 32 minutes is cut to 26-28 a game. I know this, Renn needs more than 11 a game, at least 18-20.
I hope everyone returns if they want to, however, I don’t know where Newman’s minutes come unless he somehow plays less on edge and improves his ball handling. I believe if he wants he can play 2 more seasons, maybe it’s wise to start fresh at say a Loyola/DePaul/Ball State type of program? We’ll see what happens but my guess would be a player or possibly two leaves, Morton won’t be one of them, hope he’s 7-8th man next year.
You mean fans listen to hype and regurgitate it? I thought they would be good and thought they would do better, but no blown headgaskets for me...compression is just fine and heads are not warped.
It should be interesting to see what Heide and Colvin bring on the wing. Portal priority is a dynamic, ball handling point guard. There should be a few in the portal to target. Hoping Edey returns, but expecting that Purdue will be playing much smaller next year.
today or what they could be is the question because they could be much more
The population produces many more 6'2" players than 6'9" or so. Many times there are a lot of players in high school without huge differences, but the better one thought go to the name schools. Guards are typically the best basketball players on the whole. Sometimes these good, but slightly behind players go to smaller school and get their chance at a lot of minutes with similar assets in competing players and so they may be gaining minutes, making errors and learning in a variety of circumstances that may not be allowed where winning has an even higher expectation that can't allow time for those errors to be corrected in many cases. Those teams don't go to the tourney every year and so those players get a lot of minutes to grow and develop where teh name schools may not allow the same potential for growth in a player because it is expected to play in the tourney every year or close to it. Then when those small schools have seniors with a lot of minutes between them and the chance to bet Goliath, they sometimes do.
Wondering if Heide can play the 4. We could use a more dynamic offensive weapon there.
I couldn't get a feel for Heide since he rarely shot the ball before games and instead did what he must do best and that is dunk. Why not more perimeter shooting? I don't know, but I hope he can shoot well and be able to drive the ball a bit since we know he can jump just fine. Myles, doesn't appear to be quick, but does get to where he wants "IF" time to do so and another athlete. Pretty much unstopable with a push and nobody in front of him. Could he be the player in the middle of a zone press attack? This year was built around Zach, but if he leaves the deck gets reshuffled a bit and if he stays we will probably see different playing time for new faces and old faces.
That was one aspect of the Heide warmup show that was odd. Look, we know he can dunk, take some outside shots, it got to be a little old after awhile.
Matt Painter had a 6-year stretch from 2007 - 2012
where Purdue lost in the 2nd round (or better).
Cuonzo Martin, 1995 NBA Draft pick, recruited most of these players.
There is no better 6-year stretch than this for Painter in the NCAA Tournament.
And Martin was done bringing these players in by 2007.
Bring Cuonzo back (or someone like him) that can recruit March Madness talent.
If not, then Purdue should pursue a new coach.
Had Painter convinced Cuonzo to stay back in 2008, Purdue would
already have been to the FF by now (and maybe won it all).
where Purdue lost in the 2nd round (or better).
Cuonzo Martin, 1995 NBA Draft pick, recruited most of these players.
There is no better 6-year stretch than this for Painter in the NCAA Tournament.
And Martin was done bringing these players in by 2007.
Bring Cuonzo back (or someone like him) that can recruit March Madness talent.
If not, then Purdue should pursue a new coach.
Had Painter convinced Cuonzo to stay back in 2008, Purdue would
already have been to the FF by now (and maybe won it all).
He wasn't playing and so you think the more natural thing to do is do with a crowd is what you can do best which he did. I just hope shooting and dribbling are not distant second and third. He seems to be friends with Fletcher and Braden
How would the team be with Braden and Fletcher in all their youth "IF" either a smooge at the 3 OR Robbie at the 4 were with those two and Zach? With the same two guards, pressing Purdue doesn't last long with either Smooge or Robbie added...wouldn't even need both. Purdue didn't really have a "good" ball handler at the 3 or 4 to help against zone presses or a real threat on the perimeter. What if Purdue got more out of those two positions relative to ball handling and shooting? Sometimes teams are closer to be really solid than originally thought wiht a single player or so. Anyway, Purdue fans can point to a lot of things that might make Purdue better in all the positions.
I won't argue with the impact of Cuonzo's recruiting, but how could you possibly expect a former NBA player who is a good recruiter to NOT want to be a head coach?
I get it.
But Painter could have sold what a 1-2 punch him and Cuonzo could be
at Purdue back in 2008 (Baby Boilers already in place) had he stayed
for future FF runs, etc.
Purdue nearly had a FF in the bag in 2010 (Hummel injury).
That Painter / Martin combo was lethal for the short time they were together.
Cuonzo is available now I believe after having
experienced what its like to be a head coach at multiple places.
And his son is on Purdue's current team.
There are a couple of pretty good PGs in the portal already. Isa Silva was highly rated out of HS, but has kind of been disappointing at Stanford.
I also imagine Painter is calling Javon Small from ECU. From Indy, lightly recruited, but was the leading scorer on a pretty good ECU team this year.
Neither are top flight transfers, but could be well paired to split time with Smith.
And speaking of underperforming at Stanford, I'm curious if Harrison Ingram will test the waters. His time in the Bay has been nothing short of a bust considering his hype put of high school, but I wonder if a change of scenery and significantly worse weather would do him some good.
I also imagine Painter is calling Javon Small from ECU. From Indy, lightly recruited, but was the leading scorer on a pretty good ECU team this year.
Neither are top flight transfers, but could be well paired to split time with Smith.
And speaking of underperforming at Stanford, I'm curious if Harrison Ingram will test the waters. His time in the Bay has been nothing short of a bust considering his hype put of high school, but I wonder if a change of scenery and significantly worse weather would do him some good.
I believe Edey's decision is key and if he wants to do Purdue and his teammates a favor he'll make that decision as soon as possible.
If Edey stays other bigs will probably leave. I can't imagine TKR and Furst being satisfied with the same roles three years into the program. You'll also be adding Berg next year so unless he gets zero minutes it will be even more crowded at the 4 and 5.
Newman graduated this year, I don't see why he'd stick around. I think Morton will stay because he really won't have any other options (remember Eastern) but I don't see how he fits into an offense that doesn't feature Edey,
Bottom line if Edey stays we'd probably be okay even if we lost Newman and either Furst or TKR, but if he goes we're going to need to change how we play and get some help in the back court.
If Edey stays other bigs will probably leave. I can't imagine TKR and Furst being satisfied with the same roles three years into the program. You'll also be adding Berg next year so unless he gets zero minutes it will be even more crowded at the 4 and 5.
Newman graduated this year, I don't see why he'd stick around. I think Morton will stay because he really won't have any other options (remember Eastern) but I don't see how he fits into an offense that doesn't feature Edey,
Bottom line if Edey stays we'd probably be okay even if we lost Newman and either Furst or TKR, but if he goes we're going to need to change how we play and get some help in the back court.
That is how I see it as well with Edey. If he stays Renn needs to be told he’s now the presumptive starting 4 expected to log 20-25 minutes a game, Furst backs up both, Edey gets a slight cut in minutes, Berg bides his time a year, Gillis plays both 3 and 4 probably seeing minutes cut a bit, Newman if he stays battles it out with Morton/Heide/Colvin for the 3, a transfer PG/SG is brought in. In other words a lot to be decided, hopefully within a week or two Edey makes a decision.
You need guys that can attack the rim. We had none except newman. Hopefully loyer puts on some weight or at least strength and heide and or Colvin are ready to play. When you look at our roster next year I think furst needs to move to the 5, Gillis stays a 4, Smith is the pg, 2/3 should be a wide open competition with the guys that give you the best shot in March getting a leg up instead of the low ceiling/high floor guys that painter forces minutes to. We need another pg in the portal to push smith as well.
Krissa from Zona in the portal, that would be a helluve get, I doubt Matt checks in, he should.
maybe Loyer's dad has some connections to help improve Fletch's physique
No, thanks. He's a worse defender than Loyer and a malcontent. He's overrated based on an offensive game that never developed.
Anyway--it's moot, because he's almost certainly headed to Xavier to reunite with Sean Miller.
Fair enough, I’m obviously not an expert, the games I saw he looked pretty good to me. He won’t be here anyway, I do think Purdue gets someone, it will be interesting these next few weeks seeing how the roster shakes out.
No. Nothing they could REALISTICALLY be next year makes them a good pairing.
What on earth do purdue fans not understand about spacing and ball handling?!
Hey Purdue fans - a real live honest question:
Say Edey leaves. Who do you think would be Purdue's most valuable front court piece going forward, and why?
Say Edey leaves. Who do you think would be Purdue's most valuable front court piece going forward, and why?
- TKR
- Furst
- Berg
- Gillis
I would say it is either Furst and Gillis or TKR and Gillis. Furst would be the more ideal starter at the 5 without Edey because of his size and rebounding ability.
Berg will get minimal minutes and not sure how TKR and Furst work together since both aren’t reliable outside shooters.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Why I don’t think Walters 100% gets fired and why that’s a good thing- Latest: New Pal Boiler
-
-
-
