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How do you even fix this offense?

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HUD628

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Apr 11, 2007
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I’m all the way out on both Harrell and Card. I don’t even know who the problem is to be honest, so I’m going with both. They both are terrible. This offense is just a complete joke.

It would be justified to fire him right now but I don’t think they can. They don’t have anyone to take over. I know I know it couldn’t be worse. But realistically they just don’t have a guy to call a game if they fire him.

I can’t even believe how bad this offense is. 2-10 is the best case scenario if they continue to play this way.
 
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HUD628 said:
I’m all the way out on both Harrell and Card. I don’t even know who the problem is to be honest, so I’m going with both. They both are terrible. This offense is just a complete joke.

It would be justified to fire him right now but I don’t think they can. They don’t have anyone to take over. I know I know it couldn’t be worse. But realistically they just don’t have a guy to call a game if they fire him.

I can’t even believe how bad this offense is. 2-10 is the best case scenario if they continue to play this way.
Click to expand...
And no good OC is jumping on this sinking ship. MBob needs to get rid of the whole staff .
 
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Our OC and QB are absolutely horrible without a doubt, but this is also the weakest group of WRs that we had in years.

Honestly, the entire offense needs to be reset and started from scratch.
 
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I hate to throw a Purdue player under the bus, and I'm not saying this will fix anything, but I think it's time to move on from Card. He just seems to go into a shell against quality defenses.
 
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KentuckyBoiler said:
Our OC and QB are absolutely horrible without a doubt, but this is also the weakest group of WRs that we had in years.

Honestly, the entire offense needs to be reset and started from scratch.
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We really needed CJ Smith to be a player, but sounds like he will be out for the year. And now with Edrine out, yes, very weak group of WRs
 
card was decent last year,not great but had his moments. this year he is lost. could be the line or the lack of decent receivers? defense was better, not good but better. not happy with the team or coaching staff especially with iu doing great with their first year coach. walters is just hazell 2.0 and the sooner we dump him, the sooner we can search for a real head coach
 
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mryankee2397 said:
card was decent last year,not great but had his moments. this year he is lost. could be the line or the lack of decent receivers? defense was better, not good but better. not happy with the team or coaching staff especially with iu doing great with their first year coach. walters is just hazell 2.0 and the sooner we dump him, the sooner we can search for a real head coach
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Just curious....Do you think that Walters regrets chasing off the WR from last year?
mryankee2397 said:
card was decent last year,not great but had his moments. this year he is lost. could be the line or the lack of decent receivers? defense was better, not good but better. not happy with the team or coaching staff especially with iu doing great with their first year coach. walters is just hazell 2.0 and the sooner we dump him, the sooner we can search for a real head coach
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Wr's were better last year. Perhaps we shouldn't have chased them off.
 
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mklinker said:
Just curious....Do you think that Walters regrets chasing off the WR from last year?

Wr's were better last year. Perhaps we shouldn't have chased them off.
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Total nonsense. One was never healthy for 3 years, one quit before the bucket game, and the only one that mattered got a pay day from a big time program. Our top 2 guys are both out and that really hurts.
 
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I'll repeat it again, linemen, linemen, linemen. You can't win games without good linemen. The two really good defenses we have faced we could not run the ball and our quarterback was running for his life all day. Oregon State doesn't have a good defense and we were at least able to run the ball.
 
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Gave up my season tix 4 years ago when I retired after having them since 1984. Ross Ade looked fabulous. The new renovations are excellent. Scoreboard and big screen are phenomenal. Unfortunately we don't have a team to match, at least right now.

Card has no time to throw and knows it. His feet are constantly dancing.

No big play threats.

165 yds in penalties and most of them warranted, even the PI calls. Our DBs can't get their heads turned around. Stupid personal fouls.

OL is not effective.

Coach Walter's body language on the sideline looks dejected and almost hopeless. Not a criticism, just an observation.

We are near rock bottom as a program. Not competitive. Not sure where we go from here. I do think Walters needs another year but needs to make staff changes.
 
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only watched half of nd and all of oregon st. but it doesnt seem like card has much time to throw or receivers who can get open. has he declined since last year? is it the offensive scheme? lack of talent everywhere? whatever it is i dont think walters is the answer
 
I was expecting a big year from Card. Its not like he doesn't have physical talent. My guess is he looks great in practice when there's no fear of getting hit (like the ISU game) and thus the staff feels good going into the game. Now why CWR or Harrell can't seem to pull him from the game when he's struggling so much is beyond me. Harrell does seem slow to me and I think CWR is to either too stubborn or has delegated all offensive decisions to Harrell which isn't very wise.

I think the only way you can possibly stick with Card at this point is use him way more as a runner.
 
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ImRonBurgandy? said:
I was expecting a big year from Card. Its not like he doesn't have physical talent. My guess is he looks great in practice when there's no fear of getting hit (like the ISU game) and thus the staff feels good going into the game. Now why CWR or Harrell can't seem to pull him from the game when he's struggling so much is beyond me. Harrell does seem slow to me and I think CWR is to either too stubborn or has delegated all offensive decisions to Harrell which isn't very wise.

I think the only way you can possibly stick with Card at this point is use him way more as a runner.
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Bingo. He's not a game day player, and the slightest bit of pressure rattles him.

First half, he has a free play, a wide open receiver, not a ton of pressure, literally zero consequences to that play, all he has to do is make the pass, and he sailed it over his head.

Time to see what else we got, and yes time to change coordinators.
 
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They say in gambling, you should never bet more than you can afford to lose.

Obviously the Purdue AD never heard of that phrase. He paid Hazell way too much money to be a head coach after 1 good season. He paid Brohm too much money on his extension. When he first threatened to leave for Louisville .

And now Purdue will keep Walters for another year because they can’t afford to pay him the $9 million buyout And hire another coach.

Think about it. If Purdue buys out Walters, they will have to spend $9 million for the buyout plus another $8-10 million for another head coach. No way can Purdue afford to spend $17-20 million just for a head coach next year.

Like gambling, Purdue should have never given Walters the contract they gave him if they couldn’t afford to buy him out. They should have started out giving their head coach $3-5 million And then increase his salary based on His performance/success.

Admittedly no big name coach would have accepted an offer of only $3-5 million. But the reality is somebody would have. Hope was getting paid less than $1 million. I have to believe. There’s a coach somewhere out there who would have come cheap.

Two guys I would have tried to hire. Are Coach kill. And Tommy Bowden. They both enjoyed success at the division 1 level and both would have signed for half of what Purdue shelled out for Walters!

Why spend your money on a Lexus, when a Camry will get the job done at half the price!!! And a Camry is still better than 75% of the competition!
 
Wolegib said:
They say in gambling, you should never bet more than you can afford to lose.

Obviously the Purdue AD never heard of that phrase. He paid Hazell way too much money to be a head coach after 1 good season. He paid Brohm too much money on his extension. When he first threatened to leave for Louisville .

And now Purdue will keep Walters for another year because they can’t afford to pay him the $9 million buyout And hire another coach.

Think about it. If Purdue buys out Walters, they will have to spend $9 million for the buyout plus another $8-10 million for another head coach. No way can Purdue afford to spend $17-20 million just for a head coach next year.

Like gambling, Purdue should have never given Walters the contract they gave him if they couldn’t afford to buy him out. They should have started out giving their head coach $3-5 million And then increase his salary based on His performance/success.

Admittedly no big name coach would have accepted an offer of only $3-5 million. But the reality is somebody would have. Hope was getting paid less than $1 million. I have to believe. There’s a coach somewhere out there who would have come cheap.

Two guys I would have tried to hire. Are Coach kill. And Tommy Bowden. They both enjoyed success at the division 1 level and both would have signed for half of what Purdue shelled out for Walters!

Why spend your money on a Lexus, when a Camry will get the job done at half the price!!! And a Camry is still better than 75% of the competition!
Click to expand...
Walters would be owed $3 million next year if he’s fired, not $9 million.
 
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Wolegib said:
They say in gambling, you should never bet more than you can afford to lose.

Obviously the Purdue AD never heard of that phrase. He paid Hazell way too much money to be a head coach after 1 good season. He paid Brohm too much money on his extension. When he first threatened to leave for Louisville .

And now Purdue will keep Walters for another year because they can’t afford to pay him the $9 million buyout And hire another coach.

Think about it. If Purdue buys out Walters, they will have to spend $9 million for the buyout plus another $8-10 million for another head coach. No way can Purdue afford to spend $17-20 million just for a head coach next year.

Like gambling, Purdue should have never given Walters the contract they gave him if they couldn’t afford to buy him out. They should have started out giving their head coach $3-5 million And then increase his salary based on His performance/success.

Admittedly no big name coach would have accepted an offer of only $3-5 million. But the reality is somebody would have. Hope was getting paid less than $1 million. I have to believe. There’s a coach somewhere out there who would have come cheap.

Two guys I would have tried to hire. Are Coach kill. And Tommy Bowden. They both enjoyed success at the division 1 level and both would have signed for half of what Purdue shelled out for Walters!

Why spend your money on a Lexus, when a Camry will get the job done at half the price!!! And a Camry is still better than 75% of the competition!
Click to expand...
You may have just created the longest post I’ve ever seen with the least amount of correct info I’ve ever seen.
 
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When you can't run or protect the qb, a good high school coach will adapt. Screens, draws, jet sweeps, reverses, roll out to move the pocket and on and on. I cannot recollect any of that. Read option 1st down, read option second down, sack 3rd down, punt. If the ship is sinking crw should call the offense, can't be any worse than what we are seeing. At least if he gets canned he can be in total control of the titanic.
 
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Jaycee79 said:
When you can't run or protect the qb, a good high school coach will adapt. Screens, draws, jet sweeps, reverses, roll out to move the pocket and on and on. I cannot recollect any of that. Read option 1st down, read option second down, sack 3rd down, punt. If the ship is sinking crw should call the offense, can't be any worse than what we are seeing. At least if he gets canned he can be in total control of the titanic.
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Yeah, how many reverses and jet sweeps did #17 for Nebraska run successfully yesterday? It's almost like it was a good idea.
 
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To answer the original question, it's so multi-faceted it's difficult to pinpoint the answer. It's a combination of:
1. Card is just not that good, particularly against a rush.
2. Harrell does not have original thinking.
3. The OL is not nearly as stout against a pass rush as we thought it might be.
4. The receivers are just not good.
 
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There are 4 simple things that Purdue or any marginal team could do to improve their chances of winning, but unfortunately almost all coaches suffer from
what I call Cultural Sterility! - we have to play the way every other team plays! Here are the 4 simple changes:

Increase the size of the offensive line splits!
Throw more to the tight end!
Stop wasting an offensive down! - if your're 2nd and one throw a long pass. Don't waste a down by trying to pick up a first down, still have a 3rd and 4th down!
Blitz frequency!
 
Chi-Boiler said:
To answer the original question, it's so multi-faceted it's difficult to pinpoint the answer. It's a combination of:
1. Card is just not that good, particularly against a rush.
2. Harrell does not have original thinking.
3. The OL is not nearly as stout against a pass rush as we thought it might be.
4. The receivers are just not good.
Click to expand...
I agree with each point here.

I just don’t understand what Harrell is doing. He has done nothing to get any easy completions. Has not rolled Card out. Has not used the backs in the passing game. Early in the game yesterday they went under center and ran it with Love with success. I swear after the 2nd time they did it Mbow was on camera gesturing to the sideline like yes let’s go we can keep doing this. But they of course stopped doing it and didn’t try to hit play action off it either.
 
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HUD628 said:
I agree with each point here.

I just don’t understand what Harrell is doing. He has done nothing to get any easy completions. Has not rolled Card out. Has not used the backs in the passing game. Early in the game yesterday they went under center and ran it with Love with success. I swear after the 2nd time they did it Mbow was on camera gesturing to the sideline like yes let’s go we can keep doing this. But they of course stopped doing it and didn’t try to hit play action off it either.
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I saw this too with Mbow gesturing to the sideline. Pretty much anything we do that works I think gets immediately scratched off the call sheet.

Roll card for easy throws. Utilize his legs in the run game to some extent. He’s athletic enough that if he’s out of the pocket he can run and extend plays. That happened on our first TD that was called back (at first on the wrong call). Definitely utilize the backs in the screen game (well outside of that one disaster of a throw last week that got tipped and went off Love for the pick 6).

I think the things that need to be adjusted to be competent are just common sense common knowledge things. That’s why it’s so frustrating to watch.

If your line isn’t good don’t drop back and ask them to pass protect for 4-5 seconds. If the other team is pinning their ears back and rushing aggressively counter, trap and screen!

If your WRs aren’t good get them open schematically.

I don’t think we have a great offense but it’s not 140 yards and 3 points until garbage time bad. That’s squarely on scheme, coaching and playcalling.
 
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So I don’t normally post on the football side so excuse me if it has been said but here are some ideas.

1. You tell Walters he has to fire Harrell. If he balks at the idea, you fire both and clean house.

2. We can’t fire the OC - no one else on staff has experience as a play caller!! We have a guy with experience and he sucks so can’t get worse. Hand the play sheet and let’s roll the dice with someone else.

3. No more punting - go for it every 4th down. This is genius because if we are deep in our own territory, it will save the defense from giving up long drives.

4. Hire a WR coach who teaches kids to get open. I’ve watched some plays where our WRs get jammed and basically quit on the play.

5. Drop all defensive players into coverage. Our defensive front isn’t getting pressure anyways, make it hard for them to throw with everyone in coverage.

6. Get some CS majors to run massive simulations on College Gameday to build the most optimal play calls for both sides of the ball. I bet we can do it for cheap which saves us $1m on Harrells salary.

If Bobinski doesn’t make a smart move soon, he is going to end up costing himself his job. We don’t need to hire a coach who doesn’t have HC experience. Find someone from the MAC who has shown success.

I’ll still tune in because I’m a loyal alum but it is going to be a painful year. The inaction and Walters repeating the same lines each week doesn’t instill confidence that he has any ideas how to right the ship.
 
mklinker said:
Just curious....Do you think that Walters regrets chasing off the WR from last year?

Wr's were better last year. Perhaps we shouldn't have chased them off.
Click to expand...
This. We’ve had very talented receivers, we were small this year and it’s almost like we overcompensated. There are even a lot of people here who won’t admit deon burks was a good WR. He’s now 6th in the SEC in receptions. Max klare is our leading receiver at 193 yards and our leading wr has 79 yards. You know who has more than our leading WR (Tibbs)? tj Sheffield, ARY (223!), Elijah Canion, and of course Burks.
 
POTFHBTFU said:
This. We’ve had very talented receivers, we were small this year and it’s almost like we overcompensated. There are even a lot of people here who won’t admit deon burks was a good WR. He’s now 6th in the SEC in receptions. Max klare is our leading receiver at 193 yards and our leading wr has 79 yards. You know who has more than our leading WR (Tibbs)? tj Sheffield, ARY (223!), Elijah Canion, and of course Burks.
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Walters might be worse at evaluating talent than he is at coordinating defense. And that’s saying something.
 
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HUD628 said:
I’m all the way out on both Harrell and Card. I don’t even know who the problem is to be honest, so I’m going with both. They both are terrible. This offense is just a complete joke.

It would be justified to fire him right now but I don’t think they can. They don’t have anyone to take over. I know I know it couldn’t be worse. But realistically they just don’t have a guy to call a game if they fire him.

I can’t even believe how bad this offense is. 2-10 is the best case scenario if they continue to play this way.
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Fire Harrell, promote Sinz.
 
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You think Kevin Sumlin could and would switch schools in the middle of a season and be our OC? Proven track record and Purdue alliance. Could see it as a pathway to head coach once we move on from Walters.
 
POTFHBTFU said:
You think Kevin Sumlin could and would switch schools in the middle of a season and be our OC? Proven track record and Purdue alliance. Could see it as a pathway to head coach once we move on from Walters.
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No. Nobody would do that mid year. Schemes take weeks and weeks to install.

Well, at least good ones do. I feel like ours was installed in about an hour over a few beers at Harry’s Chocloate Shop with Card and Harrell the only ones in attendance.
 
pboiler18 said:
No. Nobody would do that mid year. Schemes take weeks and weeks to install.

Well, at least good ones do. I feel like ours was installed in about an hour over a few beers at Harry’s Chocloate Shop with Card and Harrell the only ones in attendance.
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Understood. I would expect the rest of the staff would stay to ensure continuity. This would be mostly symbolic and Sumlin would spend most of his time evaluating talent, recruiting, and motivating the current team and leave X’s and O’s To the staff.
 
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