And you along with everyone else has no idea if that is the case or not. But you being an IU troll wouldn't get that about a Purdue team.
Gold medal game stream
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I disagree with that and that's what concerns me most. I did not think the Latvia team was all that impressive.
Today was a bummer for sure. But if they shoot today like they did at any other time in this tourney, they win easily.
Can't answer exactly, the USAB website is garbage. I tried researching a few things a couple days ago but gave up. I did see that Lithuania had not finished higher than 3rd before this year, with a couple 5th place finishes mixed in. Even if they're an "all-star" group from that country (which I'm not sure how these selections really work), I'm not sure how good that is comparatively speaking. Highly doubt it's on the the level you would expect of a US all-star team, but maybe their local hoops is up and coming and we just don't know about it... because, well... it's Lithuania.
Interesting tidbit - it was the Lithuanian team that gave USA it's only loss when Painter coached the team in 2011 as well.
By the time the conference games start I believe we are going to have this team and some capable back ups. Guys like Wheeler have another three months to get stronger and learn the system. From what I saw this week, they are going to be fine.
if purdue is near a bubble team next year, I would be very surprised and disappointed
I hope not!
I agree with the second part that there's no reason to abandon the season; I need more than 1 game against a good team to make an informed expectation on the year. But I'm not sure "they got the silver" is much of a consolation prize for the team. The US is the most dominant basketball country on the planet. Purdue is in that "good-to-pretty-good team" range this year, but probably not a great team. Some of the competition in this thing was downright dreadful though. The final scores in pool play should give some indication of that; Purdue beat some of these "all-star" teams by larger margins than some of the upcoming non-conference games. I tend agree with TC's overall view that this was kind of the Purdue's to lose this year.
Now I understand. You weren't paying enough attention to even know which country we were playing.
TIC
As for the ages of the players, I pointed out before the games started Purdue had the opportunity to play several former players, but chose not to! Swanigan, Spike, Davis and Hammons all would have been eligible to play. It's very understandable why they didn't play. But according to the rules, they could have played!
I couldn't understand why Eifert was getting more playing time than Wheeler or Ewing. If Eifert, a walkon, is better then 2 of our recruits , then we've got issues. If it was a matter of W and Ewing struggling, well, this is the place for them to learn. Sometimes I don't get Painters methods.
Agree with the sentiment. I see this as a lack of trust from Painter. Not saying there was anything done by the player to deserve the lack of trust (or vice versa) ... I'm not there.
But, I do think Painter trusted Eifert more due to the years or practice together. I'm not defending the substitution, just saying my humble opinion on the potential thought process.
I've read the comments and agree with half of them. The most prevelalent post was we got beaten on the boards! And our outside shooting just wasn't there today. It would be ok if our outside shooting was off if we had a good rebounding team to grab the misses. But we don't! We played small ball against a tall team and lost!
I believe we were the more talented team, but used the wrong game plan to win this game! Many have said we will learn from this game and we will be better and everything will be just fine. I'm not so sure we will. Both this game and the Israel game pointed out a huge weakness in our team. We were able to overcome that weakness against Israel and eek out a victory! We were not able to do that today!
It appears Purdue will have trouble against tall teams that pull Haas away from the basket. Will Painter go to a zone defense against team that try that? No!
We've had many threads about what we believe our most desired lineup should be. Several posters including myself wanted a lineup with Vince playing small forward and either PJ or Mathias acting as A 6th man. That would have required starting Taylor, Ewing, Haarms or Wheeler at power forward or at least giving them significant minutes there. That would have improved our rebounding ability. However, you saw Painter had a reluctance to go to that type of a lineup or give Ewing or Wheeler significant minutes!
did Painter even experiment with that type of lineup in any game? Were Taylor and Haas ever on the court at the same time? Did Edwards ever play Sf with Ewing at PF and Haas at C?
I believe we saw the future in looking at the past. Yes people bemoan the loss of Swanigan. But the reality is we had the capability of playing Swanigan and Haas together last year, but seldom did so! So I highly doubt Painter will attempt to have a twin towers this year either, or ever with v Edwards in the lineup. I'd love to see a lineup involving Haas at center with Ewing, Taylor or Haarms at PF and Vince playing SF! I believe it would be very effective against tall teams! But I don't believe Painter will ever employ that lineup!
We talk about Ewing and Wheeler getting better. Hopefully they will. But in following these games, it's hard to believe even if they do improve, that their minutes utilized will increase! I have to believe they saw more minutes in these games than they will during the college season and our starters will see more minutes. I highly doubt Haarms will see anything more than 5 mins a game and those minutes will be at C, not PF!
Essentially, Purdue will live and die with Vince as our starting PF and going with a 3 guard team! And against most teams, we will be fine! Against taller teams that have centers on the perimeter like Michigan, we will struggle!
I believe many people have pointed out our achillies heel. However, unlike some, I don't believe time will heal that heel! Painter is never going to play tall ball or zone with this current team! This team has a lot of talent, but pitted against a team that incorporates a twin towers, no matter their talent level, we will struggle.
I do believe these games provided a very good picture of our upcoming season. It will bea great season! And our chances in the tourney will depend on matchups!
I believe we were the more talented team, but used the wrong game plan to win this game! Many have said we will learn from this game and we will be better and everything will be just fine. I'm not so sure we will. Both this game and the Israel game pointed out a huge weakness in our team. We were able to overcome that weakness against Israel and eek out a victory! We were not able to do that today!
It appears Purdue will have trouble against tall teams that pull Haas away from the basket. Will Painter go to a zone defense against team that try that? No!
We've had many threads about what we believe our most desired lineup should be. Several posters including myself wanted a lineup with Vince playing small forward and either PJ or Mathias acting as A 6th man. That would have required starting Taylor, Ewing, Haarms or Wheeler at power forward or at least giving them significant minutes there. That would have improved our rebounding ability. However, you saw Painter had a reluctance to go to that type of a lineup or give Ewing or Wheeler significant minutes!
did Painter even experiment with that type of lineup in any game? Were Taylor and Haas ever on the court at the same time? Did Edwards ever play Sf with Ewing at PF and Haas at C?
I believe we saw the future in looking at the past. Yes people bemoan the loss of Swanigan. But the reality is we had the capability of playing Swanigan and Haas together last year, but seldom did so! So I highly doubt Painter will attempt to have a twin towers this year either, or ever with v Edwards in the lineup. I'd love to see a lineup involving Haas at center with Ewing, Taylor or Haarms at PF and Vince playing SF! I believe it would be very effective against tall teams! But I don't believe Painter will ever employ that lineup!
We talk about Ewing and Wheeler getting better. Hopefully they will. But in following these games, it's hard to believe even if they do improve, that their minutes utilized will increase! I have to believe they saw more minutes in these games than they will during the college season and our starters will see more minutes. I highly doubt Haarms will see anything more than 5 mins a game and those minutes will be at C, not PF!
Essentially, Purdue will live and die with Vince as our starting PF and going with a 3 guard team! And against most teams, we will be fine! Against taller teams that have centers on the perimeter like Michigan, we will struggle!
I believe many people have pointed out our achillies heel. However, unlike some, I don't believe time will heal that heel! Painter is never going to play tall ball or zone with this current team! This team has a lot of talent, but pitted against a team that incorporates a twin towers, no matter their talent level, we will struggle.
I do believe these games provided a very good picture of our upcoming season. It will bea great season! And our chances in the tourney will depend on matchups!
Nothing wrong with having an opinion. I disagree with the opinion though. No hope at a final 4? That's silly. Purdue will be better than South Carolina was last year (and was better than they were last year too). SC just happened to play well for a few games and had some luck on their side. Can happen to anyone including the Boilermakers. That's why people love the tourney, never really know what will happen.
I would always hope for a final four, but being realistic and looking at our talent, I would never predict it! There is a difference in hope and loyalty verses objectivity!
When I was in college, we almost beat Michigan in football twice in 4 years. One year we had a bottom feeder team and won 14-13! It was a great feeling, but no Boiler in their right mind predicted we would win! In the other year, we had Mark Herman and the game was st Mich. and I hoped and thought we had an possible chance of winning! He was injured and we lost!
The story is I hope our basketball team wins every game! Unlike some teams, we at least have the talent to make that hope possible! But to be realistic and objective, on paper if things play out as they should, this is not a final four team! We can hope it is! But to predict it will be means you have done very little research on our opposition towards that goal!
The story is I hope our basketball team wins every game! Unlike some teams, we at least have the talent to make that hope possible! But to be realistic and objective, on paper if things play out as they should, this is not a final four team! We can hope it is! But to predict it will be means you have done very little research on our opposition towards that goal!
next years tourney odds
purdue currently sits in the 14-18 range
Duke 4/1
Michigan State 7/1
Arizona 8/1
Kentucky 17/2
North Carolina 10/1
Kansas 14/1
Louisville 18/1
Villanova 20/1
Florida 20/1
Gonzaga 20/1
Missouri 20/1
Wichita State 25/1
Michigan 28/1
West Virginia 33/1
Oregon 33/1
UCLA 33/1
Purdue 33/1
USC 33/1
purdue currently sits in the 14-18 range
Duke 4/1
Michigan State 7/1
Arizona 8/1
Kentucky 17/2
North Carolina 10/1
Kansas 14/1
Louisville 18/1
Villanova 20/1
Florida 20/1
Gonzaga 20/1
Missouri 20/1
Wichita State 25/1
Michigan 28/1
West Virginia 33/1
Oregon 33/1
UCLA 33/1
Purdue 33/1
USC 33/1
I can agree with that! I believe Purdue is a sweet 16 team. And if we get a lucky bounce we could finish higher! I believe it's rather homerish to predict anything higher! I enjoy and respect passion and hope! However, I respect others even more if their predictions are based on solid research
they won like Purdue has in the past...grind, ugly at times, effort and team work
No way Swanigan or Hammons' NBA teams let them play. Spike wouldn't have helped. No idea where Davis is and how his game is to know if he would have.
My point was our team could have (by the rules) added former older players, but didn't. By the rules we could have added Maryland's Trimble, or UW's Hayes as both went undrafted. Lithuania was different. They did add former older players who were currently playing professionally on Euro teams. and you could see the age difference. I'm not saying that's why we lost. I'm just saying , by the rules, our team could have been constructed differently. if Haas was a German or Dutch citizen, would Painter have reached out to add a former center, or starter from another team, or would he have started Taylor?
We lost because our senior forward can't block anyone out. #21 for Lithuania abused him all game long on the offensive boards. Not sure of the stats but he had to have double digit offensive boards - all of which came when our #12 was to block him out. Zero effort by our senior on the defensive glass today.
It's probably because when you actually watch the game going on and not just the person dribbling the ball the entire time, you would have noticed that Wheeler and Ewing were frequently lost on both sides of the ball. Ewing struggled mightily in the man defense concepts...especially that of rotational help. Wheeler much the same but slightly better given he is a wing defender. The players will be much more solid given more time in practice AND given they have film of themselves making the mistakes. It is one thing to be shown how to play the defense and watch film of other players...it is something totally different when you can sit down with a coach while watching film of you doing something wrong.
Winning a silver medal in this is totally an awesome accomplishment given the last All-Star team that was sent that contained 4 or 5 NBA players didn't get out of pool play and the last single college team not named Kansas didn't get out either.
A lot of talking heads took notice of how good Purdue could be when hitting on all cylinders with their starters...the main focus will be the development of the depth for this season and then next. Guys like Wheeler and Ewing are going to get better with time and what Purdue just did is essentially play 11 games (added the scrimmages in)...that amounts to an entire non-conference season essentially. If you don't think Purdue will be better in the entire season because of what happened the last week and a half...you are missing the mark on your evaluation and probably need to do some research on the intricacies of the game.
I'm just one of those that has a vision of how the game should be played and I worry when teams rely on shooting on the perimeter too much...and a lean to individual play. Whether the ball goes in or not, I like a few touches and something going to the basket..ball or person until that gets plugged. I like to make the other team work on D, but not at all opposed to pushing the ball "when" it is there. I sensed Purdue was too tight early that led to misses and pressure later. It was as though we swung for the fence. The opposition never got there on smoke and mirrors and I just think it is important to establish doing the right things whether you make baskets or not early since I believe that habits catch fire with others and the chemistry can change when each person tries to do too much. I think Purdue rushed too much early and got beat by the better half court team today.
Actually Vince missed a couple of block outs against Israel with one hurting and the other us surviving even off teh FT line. Too much going to rebound with them moving in and taking up the slack. should have went and found them out three feet farther and blocked them out. Too many people think standing in front of someone is blocking them out. Good catch...I noticed as well. Some of their offensive boards were longer bounces as well and when you move inward too much instead of holding them out an extra 3 feet or so...that happens.
Well, I think it lends perspective to our evaluation process. These teams we faced really varied in quality from poor to very good.
TC3, you seem hold a hostile attitude toward anyone here who isn't wallowing around in the same puddle of self-pity you are. Buck up buddy! It is just early in the pre-season. Most of the freshmen haven't had much practice playing at this level yet. This was a great chance learn and bond.
Thompson was also scoreless in Team USA's biggest game. PJ, Dakota, Ryan Cline, and Nojel Eastern combined for (I believe) 14 points in approx. a combined 83 minutes of play. I would cut Eastern some slack since hes an incoming freshman. This team needs more production out of that group of guards if they are to improve this season.
I also was hoping that Wheeler would get more PT but maybe the staff believes he's not strong enough to hold his own yet.
Now the team knows that they can be in even better playing shape than they are, after feeling the effects of playing that many games over an 18 day span.
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I think you should re-read the comment I responded to before assessing my response. I'm fine with being civil if others are going to be civil. If not, I can do that too.
Sometimes you have to set aside people's possible insults. I don't always do it myself, but I try not to react. Often people trip on the format of the short post and come across more stridently than intended. Yes, sometimes folks are just asshats too.
Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally.
I would totally agree with that sentiment. if dissed, I will respond in kind. I found everybody liked my speculative post when I speculated positive things. But when I speculate negative things, everybody is on my case. Some people are on my case about positive things too.
I'm not near a ledge because we lost. I felt going in this was a top 20 team that would make the sweet 16. nothing I saw from these games will lessen my opinion, or for that matter, improve it. Upon watching the games, we are who I thought we were. This is not a top 10 team, and not a final 4 team, and I'm ok with that. That doesn't mean the season is over. I'll still get excited for every game we play. I'll just not expect an undefeated season. Will we beat MSU and Louisville ? maybe - maybe not. I' m not going to kill myself if we lose.
Sure our new additions will improve through the course of the year, but so will new additions of other teams. I fully expect JJJ to be a lot better in the BIG 10 tourney than he will be his first game. As a team, we will improve, but so will our opposition.
My biggest concern is that it looks like Painter is resolved to play a 3 guard set with Vince at PF. and if he continues to do so, Purdue will struggle with bigger teams, especially Michigan. in some cases our outside shooting will compensate for what I view as an Achilles heel. But if our outside shooting is off, we'll lose.
I expected more from Wheeler. I'm not sure if it's because he arrived late, or his juco team played zone defense. or Painter hasn't built a trust in him, or if painter just prefers to play vince at PF. Wheeler is a junior, not a freshman. I'm unsure and concerned how much he will improve.
My biggest concern is that it looks like Painter is resolved to play a 3 guard set with Vince at PF. and if he continues to do so said:
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