Don't we need another Guard?

[Wolegib]

You say resigning isn’t fired? And Reid was the assistant head coach! All three had the talk and were encouraged to leave! Call it what you want. All three were Packers coaches and none are there now! Should I also mention the other coaches who were also encouraged to leave?

Argue about semantics all you want!

Do your best to make me look bad.

The facts speak for themselves.

They were all Packers coaches who were shown the door! If they had won more championships, they would have stayed!

And that was my point. The Packers coaches were not successful enough. After some success, more was expected. And when they couldn’t deliver, they were let go. Contracts were not renewed. They were allowed to leave! In a normal job, people call that being FIRED ! If you had a job and your contract wasn’t renewed, what would you call it?

That’s the problem with this board. Rather than understanding the main point of people’s posts, all you do is to try to find fault in the semantics and minor details! And then you boldly say, wrong again. You don’t read the context to gain an understanding of the main message. You just look for fault.

Many of you have no original ideas of your own, you just love to find fault and criticize others!

 

[New Pal Boiler]

You say resigning isn’t fired? And Reid was the assistant head coach! All three had the talk and were encouraged to leave! Call it what you want. All three were Packers coaches and none are there now! Should I also mention the other coaches who were also encouraged to leave?

Argue about semantics all you want!

Do your best to make me look bad.

The facts speak for themselves.

They were all Packers coaches who were shown the door! If they had won more championships, they would have stayed!

And that was my point. The Packers coaches were not successful enough. After some success, more was expected. And when they couldn’t deliver, they were let go. Contracts were not renewed. They were allowed to leave! In a normal job, people call that being FIRED ! If you had a job and your contract wasn’t renewed, what would you call it?

That’s the problem with this board. Rather than understanding the main point of people’s posts, all you do is to try to find fault in the semantics and minor details! And then you boldly say, wrong again. You don’t read the context to gain an understanding of the main message. You just look for fault.

Many of you have no original ideas of your own, you just love to find fault and criticize others!

Reid and Holmgren were both hired away by other teams to be their head coaches. Neither were fired by the Packers.

Holmgren was lured to Seattle by Paul Allen with a gigantic pay increase and total control over all football operations.

Reid was given his first head coaching job by the Eagles.

 

[bonefish1]

100% agree that you guys don't live in reality....Purdue is no basketball power....would much rather have consistent success than the occasional final four run then back to obscurity....look at all the coaches that went on a run in the tourney and faded to oblivion....crean, Davis, Shaka, Greg Marshall, Kevin Ollie....if Purdue was a blue blood sure I'd be wanting better results....but you have no idea where Purdue is in the pecking order....especially since nil has come around....we're overachieving by quite a bit....

"Tis better to go on one run than to never go on a run at all"

Where do you think Purdue sits in the pecking order or college basketball programs? Between 10-15? 15-20? 20-30?
Do you think a 40+ year FF drought is too long at Purdue or do you not expect Purdue to ever make a FF?

 

[bonefish1]

We don't buy like Baylor....how long did it take few to get to a Final four?....

Do you have proof Baylor bought players or are you just saying that because they won a NC?
What's Texas' excuse? They have a lot more and better resources than Baylor.

 

[bonefish1]

Why do you think so poor of him?...is it because the recruiting services tell you what to think?....bet you were disappointed when we landed smith, edey, and loyer....

Actually, yes. The recruiting services are right way more often than they're wrong.
And yes, I was disappointed when Smith was offered. Did he exceed expectations...absolutely. But we also saw him struggle with what the recruiting service said he'd struggle with at this level.

 

[bonefish1]

Everyone in the tournament is good. Making a sweet sixteen is a good result.

Getting to the S16 is a good result. But that consistently being your ceiling is a bad result.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Getting to the S16 is a good result. But that consistently being your ceiling is a bad result.

Luckily that isn’t Matt’s ceiling.

 

[bonefish1]

He won't come here but let's be real. The guy averaged 13 points a game his sophomore year for the #5 ranked team in the country, He then started most of his Jr year and averaged 14 points per game before being injured. Had an ACL injury at the end of his Jr year but came back to start the last 6 games for the Number 1 ranked team in the country. Started playing big minutes in the last 9 games and averaged 14.4 points per game and scored over 20 in 3 of them.

Painter would find minutes for him if he wanted to come.

We're fine with Smith at the point guard but this guy would play anywhere he chooses to go.

"we're fine with Smith at PG"
This is what people were saying a few years ago with Isaiah Thompson and Hunter was our starting backcourt.
Smith is one hard fall away from ending up on the IR. In addition, He's still a sub 6 footer without elite athleticism who's going to struggle against bigger, more athletic guards, both on O and D.

 

[Boiler Buck]

"we're fine with Smith at PG"
This is what people were saying a few years ago with Isaiah Thompson and Hunter was our starting backcourt.
Smith is one hard fall away from ending up on the IR. In addition, He's still a sub 6 footer without elite athleticism who's going to struggle against bigger, more athletic guards, both on O and D.

There is a balance between keeping team chemistry, everyone happy for their role in that.....and having talent that is fresh and competitive at the end where we have a chance in April.

While we had the former last year, and likely this year, imo CMP is too skewed toward the former for this team that imo is one guy, a great guard away from a NC with this team.

That one guy might do it....but he might also be a head case, might destroy team chemistry and lead to more off season transfers? So I guess even though I don't agree with CMPs decision to stand pat, not for a given B10 championship, BUT at least for a chance in April.....I will respect him for it, and give him the benefit of the doubt as he is way closer to the situation than any of us.

Hope it works out, and can't wait for the season!!

 

[bonefish1]

There is a balance between keeping team chemistry, everyone happy for their role in that.....and having talent that is fresh and competitive at the end where we have a chance in April.

While we had the former last year, and likely this year, imo CMP is too skewed toward the former for this team that imo is one guy, a great guard away from a NC with this team.

That one guy might do it....but he might also be a head case, might destroy team chemistry and lead to more off season transfers? So I guess even though I don't agree with CMPs decision to stand pat, not for a given B10 championship, BUT at least for a chance in April.....I will respect him for it, and give him the benefit of the doubt as he is way closer to the situation than any of us.

Hope it works out, and can't wait for the season!!

I disagree with the whole 'team chemistry' thing. Not because I don't think it's important, but because unless you're in the locker room, at practice, on team flights and in the team hotel...then we have no idea what the team chemistry is like other than what we see on TV. We can say "These guys look like they enjoy being together", but again, you're basing that on tv and what they and Painter say in front of the camera.

I will also present David Jenkins Jr as exhibit A as the type of player who on the cover, would look like someone who wouldn't fit in with team chemistry: 3 schools in 4 years, high volume shooter/scorer, wants to be 'the man', etc.
The point being, you don't not bring in a big upgrade in talent simply because your concerned some of the current guys might not be happy about it. It's the job of the coach to build team chemistry.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

It's the job of the coach to build team chemistry.

Exactly. And the chef responsible for the meal gets to shop for the ingredients.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I disagree with the whole 'team chemistry' thing. Not because I don't think it's important, but because unless you're in the locker room, at practice, on team flights and in the team hotel...then we have no idea what the team chemistry is like other than what we see on TV. We can say "These guys look like they enjoy being together", but again, you're basing that on tv and what they and Painter say in front of the camera.

I will also present David Jenkins Jr as exhibit A as the type of player who on the cover, would look like someone who wouldn't fit in with team chemistry: 3 schools in 4 years, high volume shooter/scorer, wants to be 'the man', etc.
The point being, you don't not bring in a big upgrade in talent simply because your concerned some of the current guys might not be happy about it. It's the job of the coach to build team chemistry.

Don't know what to tell you? Said I disagree with CMP for this team because it could be special with one more elite guard. But I also said I trust CMP, he knows his team and thinks long term best to stand pat. So apparently, CMP disagrees with us both.

 

[Thadoc1]

Actually, yes. The recruiting services are right way more often than they're wrong.
And yes, I was disappointed when Smith was offered. Did he exceed expectations...absolutely. But we also saw him struggle with what the recruiting service said he'd struggle with at this level.

Sure a true freshman will have some bad games but he had the best freshman season a pg has at Purdue in a long time...if he went in the portal every school would be after him....we're lucky he's at Purdue....go ask the iu folks about Baylor...Scott drew has some shady recruiting in his past...yeah I'd love to go on one run but consistent success is more important...every year we are relevant and that's difficult to do....especially at a non blue blood school in a conference as tough as the big ten....every year 14 coaches are vying for a tourney bid....it's a lot tougher than you think....

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

So, making 4 out of the last 6 sweet sixteens is an excellent accomplishment.

We made the Final Four in 1969 and 1980. Those are better accomplishments,

we should have been back by now. Our early past proves our current standards

should be higher. 1 or 2 Final Fours a decade with or without Painter is reasonable.

 

[bonefish1]

Sure a true freshman will have some bad games but he had the best freshman season a pg has at Purdue in a long time...if he went in the portal every school would be after him....we're lucky he's at Purdue....go ask the iu folks about Baylor...Scott drew has some shady recruiting in his past...yeah I'd love to go on one run but consistent success is more important...every year we are relevant and that's difficult to do....especially at a non blue blood school in a conference as tough as the big ten....every year 14 coaches are vying for a tourney bid....it's a lot tougher than you think....

The Purdue PG bar for success is pretty low. We haven’t put a PG in the NBA since?? Who knows. Again, Smith exceeded expectations, but I’m not sure he’d have been a top 5 if he entered the portal.
I’d much rather go on Baylor type run and win a NC than consistently make and lose in the S16. Every Purdue fan would trade every S16 for a FF or NC.
And, I think you’re giving the B10 too much credit. It’s a grind and tough conference season, but hasn’t won a NC in what, 20 years.

 

[Thadoc1]

The Purdue PG bar for success is pretty low. We haven’t put a PG in the NBA since?? Who knows. Again, Smith exceeded expectations, but I’m not sure he’d have been a top 5 if he entered the portal.
I’d much rather go on Baylor type run and win a NC than consistently make and lose in the S16. Every Purdue fan would trade every S16 for a FF or NC.
And, I think you’re giving the B10 too much credit. It’s a grind and tough conference season, but hasn’t won a NC in what, 20 years.

Jaden Ivey and etwaun Moore could be considered pgs....smith is as good as we'll ever have....that was evident after this year...sure I'd love to make the tourney every year and win a title every so often but that's ridiculously hard and is even harder when you don't cheat...we're doing pretty well as a program that doesn't have an advantage over most schools....your demands are ridiculous and really only a few coaches have accomplished what you are crying for....Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, beilein....those are the only one's I can think of....

 

[SCBoiler1]

There is a balance between keeping team chemistry, everyone happy for their role in that.....and having talent that is fresh and competitive at the end where we have a chance in April.

While we had the former last year, and likely this year, imo CMP is too skewed toward the former for this team that imo is one guy, a great guard away from a NC with this team.

That one guy might do it....but he might also be a head case, might destroy team chemistry and lead to more off season transfers? So I guess even though I don't agree with CMPs decision to stand pat, not for a given B10 championship, BUT at least for a chance in April.....I will respect him for it, and give him the benefit of the doubt as he is way closer to the situation than any of us.

Hope it works out, and can't wait for the season!!

I'm on board with everything you say here but what makes me uneasy is that we lost 5 out of our last 12 games against what was really a pretty marginal schedule. Fans can point to tired freshmen, poor shooting or whatever but the team was not the same at year end, We won the B10 tournament but we beat the 9,10 and 13 seeds. Not that it was Purdue's fault but I believe it gave Purdue fans the false hope that things had been corrected when Newman was inserted into the starting line-up. Turns out the round one exit exposed a lot of Purdue's weaknesses that had shown up over the last third of the season.

Will exchanging Colvin/Heide for Newman and a year of experience be enough? We'll see....

 

[Gemini95]

Jaden Ivey and etwaun Moore could be considered pgs

Only if you really want something to be true that just isnt.

....smith is as good as we'll ever have...

Stockholm syndrome

And I like Smith. A lot.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

We made the Final Four in 1969 and 1980. Those are better accomplishments,

we should have been back by now. Our early past proves our current standards

should be higher. 1 or 2 Final Fours a decade with or without Painter is reasonable.

None of that disproves what I said.

 

[Thadoc1]

I am not looking to disprove anyone. We have been to 2 Final Fours in 12 years.

1 or 2 Final Fours a decade should be our standard. If Painter is the guy, great.

If not, then we need a new coach that can. Hopefully one day we win it all.

You can wish in one hand and crap in the other....see what gets filled first....your expectations for a program like Purdue are insane....

 

[Thadoc1]

Only if you really want something to be true that just isnt.



Stockholm syndrome

And I like Smith. A lot.

Moore played point in the pros...not sure on Ivey yet but he did handle the ball quite a bit here....yeah smith will be an all timer here...sorry bruh....

 

[Thadoc1]

1969 and 1980 say otherwise. If you don't think Purdue should be able to make

the Final Four 1 or 2 times every 10 years as reasonable, then why cheer at all?

NCAA Tournament success is part of the equation. 1969 and 1980 show its

reasonable with the right coaches and players. This is far from insane.

Yeah that was before college sports became a big time business....you need to learn a little junior....

 

[BoilerDaddy]

People that think they know it all stumble the hardest. Purdue should have

continued to change with the times and continued the tradition of making

Final Fours. We might have won it all by now, too. It's still reasonable for Purdue

to make 1 or 2 Final Fours every 10 years.

All time firsts can happen. For example, Purdue had never been #1 in program history until last season and now has done it two years in a row. I believe that by staying with the process, Purdue will end the Final Four drought, as well.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

All time firsts can happen. For example, Purdue had never been #1 in program history until last season and now has done it two years in a row. I believe that by staying with the process, Purdue will end the Final Four drought, as well.

I look forward to the day brother! Hope we get to win it all at some point,
too.

 

[Thadoc1]

People that think they know it all stumble the hardest. Purdue should have

continued to change with the times and continued the tradition of making

Final Fours. We might have won it all by now, too. It's still reasonable for Purdue

to make 1 or 2 Final Fours every 10 years.

Making a final four has a lot of luck involved...unless you have great talent year in and year out....Painter is getting us there....these last few recruiting classes have been as good as we've had in a long time...this is our best year to make a run, but we'll still need luck to get there....good draw, no injuries, hot shooting....this team should be a lot more versatile than others Painter has had....size, better shooting, defense, shot making...but if you look at the blue bloods, Duke, unc, kansas, Kentucky....that's their team every year....even then making a final four twice in a decade isn't a given for them....if we get a few more players in next year's class, our chances in the next 5 years to get your coveted final four will be the best ever...

 

[tjreese]

guys just enjoy your retirement, 2 yrs ago when I retired along w/ my wife, 4 months later my wife has developed Dementia when she was 64, my retirement so far has been a care giver, so mine is on hold.

My condolences. That is a tough time.

 

[tjreese]

Two is better........

I was just about to post meatloaf

 

[northside100]

"we're fine with Smith at PG"
This is what people were saying a few years ago with Isaiah Thompson and Hunter was our starting backcourt.
Smith is one hard fall away from ending up on the IR. In addition, He's still a sub 6 footer without elite athleticism who's going to struggle against bigger, more athletic guards, both on O and D.

Who said that we were fine with IT and Hunter as the starting backcourt? If it was anyone it was a very small minority. If you're going to make stuff up to support your view at least make something up that's not blatantly and clearly false.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I was just about to post meatloaf

🤣

 

[bonefish1]

You can wish in one hand and crap in the other....see what gets filled first....your expectations for a program like Purdue are insane....

And your expectations are that Purdue should just be thankful to make the tourney? What kind of loser mentality is that?

I would think that a program with one of the top 3 home courts in the country, in a recruiting hotbed, and with what some consider to be a top 5 coach, I would think that a FF every 5 -7 years is a realistic expectation.

 

[bonefish1]

Yeah that was before college sports became a big time business....you need to learn a little junior....

Let me guess, you’re a Cubs fan who thought they’d never win the WS?

 

[bonefish1]

Who said that we were fine with IT and Hunter as the starting backcourt? If it was anyone it was a very small minority. If you're going to make stuff up to support your view at least make something up that's not blatantly and clearly false.

Not making anything up. I was giving Painter hell about not getting any transfers at the G position and there were several posters here saying that the backcourt was fine with IT and Hunter.

 

[johnboiler123]

And your expectations are that Purdue should just be thankful to make the tourney? What kind of loser mentality is that?

I would think that a program with one of the top 3 home courts in the country, in a recruiting hotbed, and with what some consider to be a top 5 coach, I would think that a FF every 5 -7 years is a realistic expectation.

Exactly. Some of these people want it both ways. They claim painter is an elite coach who recruits at a high level yet we shouldn’t be expecting final fours or a championship? Makes no sense. If Izzo could do it at msu, no reason we shouldn’t be able too.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Exactly. Some of these people want it both ways. They claim painter is an elite coach who recruits at a high level yet we shouldn’t be expecting final fours or a championship? Makes no sense. If Izzo could do it at msu, no reason we shouldn’t be able too.

Never really thought about it that way but I think your right.

If Painter is an lite coach and a good recruiter Purdue should be able to get to a final four. If he's a top 15 to 25 coach, he's meeting expectations.

I tend to think Purdue is a top 15 to 25 program that has a really good coach (not elite). Given Purdue's history, reputation, location, resources ect.., I believe the best we can expect is to be in position to make a run at the Final Four every few years. Just because you're in position every few years doesn't mean you are going to get there but at least you have a chance. That's what I think Purdue has been the last 10 to 15 years, currently is and probably will continue to be under Painter.

Teams like Kansas and Duke are in position to make a Final Four run most years and Duke has only made 2 and Kansas 1 Final Four appearances in the last 10 years.

 

[Thadoc1]

And your expectations are that Purdue should just be thankful to make the tourney? What kind of loser mentality is that?

I would think that a program with one of the top 3 home courts in the country, in a recruiting hotbed, and with what some consider to be a top 5 coach, I would think that a FF every 5 -7 years is a realistic expectation.

Look at the Hoosiers....they think they're bluebloods but they struggle to make the tourney every year...it's not as easy as Painter makes it look....the last like 8 tourneys we've been seeded 5 or better...no one else has had that consistency in the big ten...we've been so close to a final four and maybe another if it weren't for injuries...anybody that knows basketball can see the stars are aligning this year if we get some breaks...but other than having Painter, Purdue doesn't have a lot to hang their hat on....smaller fanbase, no history of cheating, second or third fiddle in the state, lack of historical name...but you can bury your head in the sand and think differently...btw, comparing college to pro is so lame....we can't buy players here, plus there's so many more teams in college...teams have a much better chance of winning in the pros...

 

[Thadoc1]

Not making anything up. I was giving Painter hell about not getting any transfers at the G position and there were several posters here saying that the backcourt was fine with IT and Hunter.

Actually we would've beaten st peters if we sat Jaden that game....

 

[bonefish1]

Never really thought about it that way but I think your right.

If Painter is an lite coach and a good recruiter Purdue should be able to get to a final four. If he's a top 15 to 25 coach, he's meeting expectations.

I tend to think Purdue is a top 15 to 25 program that has a really good coach (not elite). Given Purdue's history, reputation, location, resources ect.., I believe the best we can expect is to be in position to make a run at the Final Four every few years. Just because you're in position every few years doesn't mean you are going to get there but at least you have a chance. That's what I think Purdue has been the last 10 to 15 years, currently is and probably will continue to be under Painter.

Teams like Kansas and Duke are in position to make a Final Four run most years and Duke has only made 2 and Kansas 1 Final Four appearances in the last 10 years.

Most of the Painter apologists here think he’s a top 5-10 coach, but Purdue’s struggles in the tourney are because of things like injuries, bad draws

Look at the Hoosiers....they think they're bluebloods but they struggle to make the tourney every year...it's not as easy as Painter makes it look....the last like 8 tourneys we've been seeded 5 or better...no one else has had that consistency in the big ten...we've been so close to a final four and maybe another if it weren't for injuries...anybody that knows basketball can see the stars are aligning this year if we get some breaks...but other than having Painter, Purdue doesn't have a lot to hang their hat on....smaller fanbase, no history of cheating, second or third fiddle in the state, lack of historical name...but you can bury your head in the sand and think differently...btw, comparing college to pro is so lame....we can't buy players here, plus there's so many more teams in college...teams have a much better chance of winning in the pros...

probably what every MSU, Gonazaga and Baylor has said since 1980. Now, they have expectations to make the FF.
But, you’d rather make excuses as to why Purdue can’t make the FF or win a NC, that we should be happy to be in the dance.
Like I said, loser mentality.

 

[bonefish1]

Actually we would've beaten st peters if we sat Jaden that game....

Yeh, you set your top 5 draft pick. Brilliant….
The Bulls should have sat Jordan more often.

 

[Thadoc1]

Yeh, you set your top 5 draft pick. Brilliant….
The Bulls should have sat Jordan more often.

6 turnovers dumbazz...lost the game bruh...leave basketball ideas up to the adults....

 

[GoldandBlackintheSaddleAgain]

Not making anything up. I was giving Painter hell about not getting any transfers at the G position and there were several posters here saying that the backcourt was fine with IT and Hunter.

Several posters saying that? Saying all was a-ok, hunkie dory? Sounds like some of your typical revisionist history. I *do* however recall chiming in on those players defense myself, when you started in on some Bonefish Hyperbolic Big Mac Especials, proclaiming that those guys are not even "D 1 players" and that kind of junk.

You've had some totally, epic, legendary tantrums - meltdown city on here over the years, so maybe you're misrembering some key deets during one of the times you've "quit watching?"

Is this what you get with your Notre Damn Law School tuition $$$$