Does CMP......

[tjreese]

As much as people are screaming for brining in a 1/2 guard type next year - I’d be all in on bringing in a versatile 4 who can score and create at all 3 levels. That is what this team is missing. We haven’t had one of those since Vince Edwards.

I have been impressed with the development of Cox and Harris and think when we start running more action designed for them - they will have no problem stepping up.

As much as we are in panic mode - the last time we lost back to back games against ranked teams - we won 7 straight.

A four like that would be good as well, but I think Matt sees the teams with two bigs being the move of some teams and may want that size on the court with Trey at the 4...especially with Jacobsen's ability to play out in space and be a threat when out there. If two players are sought I prefer the 5 first and a 4 next assuming Purdue can get a good fit. Jacobsen may need to be brought along slowly where he demands minutes in Feb since he will have some learning to do and be a bit rusty I imagine

 

[tjreese]

But preferably 3! 😂

I assume Fletch stays at the three since there are a lot of capable bodies at the 2. Benter is interesting and probably a three. Has the body to play, good shooter and passer.

 

[qazplm]

I don't follow the trust because I have no idea what he will do and better yet what he sees and believes which might be different than a trust issue. That said, I can see him adding a piece of two, but he will determine that at the end of the season when he knows better what he has. We don't know anything relative to Benter and Jacobsen' current play assuming Jacobsen is now practicing. I think a five is definitely in play. Braden spent a lot of time in the gym last summer and it appears Trey and Fletcher did as well. Most believed Purdue would be a good shooting team behind the arc, but the hope that Myles and CAm would be additional shooter,s typically were not. Obviously it brings to question if their work was on skill or mostly body.

With all the negative of yesterday's game, it was good to see Cam and Myles drive the ball some which was probably encouraged by Matt to try to get into bonus and slow the clock. Both hit behind the arc. Had they performed as expected Purdue would probably only look for a 5...and that may well be the case. I would prefer the 5 be a starting type player and bring Jacobsen's along a bit slower where he gets the rust off and adjusts to the physical play in Feb some time. A four man is more in the flux I believe since Purdue has Trey and Cam that "could" work on his ball handling shooting more on the move...

Doesn't matter how we finish, we still only have three viable bigs next season.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I get all that and pay was never mentioned. There will be some 5s that could start and not require the money the three get. Just as an example would be the center for Penn State should he wish to leave. UCLA Mora could find success as well...Illinois Johnson Jr. would be another. Not saying it has to be those three, but if they wanted to leave I'm sure they would do so with less money than the three merit. I agree with team dynamics as a potential powder keg overall, but Purdue can inquire a bit and some players might like to get on a team that could make some noise...and a team that historically been friendly to a 5 man. One player new to the culture has less clout than several players brought in...

Morez Johnson would be an EXCELLENT piece to this team next year. He played alongside DJ down in South America last year. Konan from PSU would be great too.

 

[purduedavie]

I get all that and pay was never mentioned. There will be some 5s that could start and not require the money the three get. Just as an example would be the center for Penn State should he wish to leave. UCLA Mora could find success as well...Illinois Johnson Jr. would be another. Not saying it has to be those three, but if they wanted to leave I'm sure they would do so with less money than the three merit. I agree with team dynamics as a potential powder keg overall, but Purdue can inquire a bit and some players might like to get on a team that could make some noise...and a team that historically been friendly to a 5 man. One player new to the culture has less clout than several players brought in...

Wonderful post, great insight, this needs to be forwarded to Painter lol. Of course they need to leave first, guessing 1 or 2 might.

 

[RossMackey]

Many of our second and third tier players just have not panned out as hoped or planned. I don't think CMP could argue if pressed.

This is such a key point….

Unfortunately for Purdue, the “light” has yet to come on for too many guys who were expected to play prominent roles.

I think about it this way: the vast majority of CMP recruits finish as exponentially better players than when they arrived: Edey, TKR, Fletcher, Braden, Haas, Swanigan, Etwaan, and on and on…

This is where the portal comes in— to maintain a highly competitive team until other guys reach their potential.

I gotta believe we will see much better versions of Heide and Colvin moving forward, especially if they are pushed hard by portal acquisitions…

This is the challenge CMP is faced with— one I think the will embrace and flourish with.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

This is such a key point….

Unfortunately for Purdue, the “light” has yet to come on for too many guys who were expected to play prominent roles.

I think about it this way: the vast majority of CMP recruits finish as exponentially better players than when they arrived: Edey, TKR, Fletcher, Braden, Haas, Swanigan, Etwaan, and on and on…

This is where the portal comes in— to maintain a highly competitive team until other guys reach their potential.

I gotta believe we will see much better versions of Heide and Colvin moving forward, especially if they are pushed hard by portal acquisitions…

This is the challenge CMP is faced with— one I think the will embrace and flourish with.

Think about who you just named as developing into better players…what do they all have in common?

 

[tjreese]

Morez Johnson would be an EXCELLENT piece to this team next year. He played alongside DJ down in South America last year. Konan from PSU would be great too.

Those were just ones I was aware and they would make a huge difference. I think it is possible to find another 5 taking less than the big three and perhaps others...

 

[tjreese]

Doesn't matter how we finish, we still only have three viable bigs next season.

I know. I'm seeing Trey as a 4 primarily, Jacobsen as a 5 and Burgess as a 4/5 depending on Cam who could back up Trey at the 4. Reason why a 5 is what I think Purdue needs most. If Cam's improvement is questionable and I can see how some would view that...then a 4 after a 5 would be my best guess. I'm guessing Giccari gets more comfortable running the 1 behind Braden leaving Fletcher at a 3 then 2 and CJ a 2 or a combo with Gicarri. I see Fletcher/Myles and Benter as 3's. All these are guesses, but won't be surprised if Matt goes after a 5 first and if another...a 4 man. I don't see him going after another guard with West in the fold for next year, but the following year he will and has...

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

This is where the portal comes in— to maintain a highly competitive team until other guys reach their potential.

Best way to describe and consider the portal for sure.

 

[RossMackey]

Think about who you just named as developing into better players…what do they all have in common?

Willingness to listen to the coaches and work?
Self-awareness?

I’m not sure what your point is….

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Willingness to listen to the coaches and work?
Self-awareness?

I’m not sure what your point is….

Perhaps they also have/had the ability to slow the game down in their heads as they improved, but who know what the initial point was ...

 

[Boiler8285]

I doubt it. Heck, today you got 5 made threes from your bench. The loss today had literally nothing to do with the supporting cast not being a threat. They just got completely smoked on defense and a lot of that was your best player and favorite for both POY and DPOY. Next year will be about having Jacobsen back to protect the rim and a year more mature Cox, Harris, Colvin, and Heide.

DJ is not going to fix a defense which has so many guys that can't contain the dribble. Offense is not the issue. We are are small and not physical so teams get to the rim too easy. Only chance to stop drives is to help and good teams pass out of that and exploit the rotations. Our lack of athletes is totally exposed against better teams. Hell Galloway even went off on us. Need some quick 6-6 or 6-7 dudes that can defend.

 

[Boiler8285]

I assume Fletch stays at the three since there are a lot of capable bodies at the 2. Benter is interesting and probably a three. Has the body to play, good shooter and passer.

That will remain the problem. Loyer is really a 2 and Cox is a 1-1/2. Cox will hold his own on defense but Loyer can't defend a quick guard and is too small and slow to defend a mobile, physical 3. Our 3 guard offense is a defense liability.

 

[tjreese]

That will remain the problem. Loyer is really a 2 and Cox is a 1-1/2. Cox will hold his own on defense but Loyer can't defend a quick guard and is too small and slow to defend a mobile, physical 3. Our 3 guard offense is a defense liability.

Always a size and power inside versus a quicker perimeter. Fletch doesn’t handle it as well as you want a 2, but even though his on ball D could be better his off ball is fine. Dribble penetration will always be a concern and is for all teams even the ones that do a good job. Purdue’s perimeter length is better this year than last, but lost an automatic 2 pts and rim protector in Zach.

I really believe had Myles and Cam taken the step most of us thought would happen a lot of concerning conversations wouldn’t happen.

 

[northside100]

The white knights on here think that we are good as is. Maybe they are right. But Painter would be a fool not to work with the NIL to at least survey the market and make competitive offers to maximize a national title run next year. If there are no good fits per what Painter wants then that is fine. Its his team and he will live with the results. But the team for next year can always be improved.

I personally hope at a minimum to get a high level 5 to split minutes with DJ or be a high level back up.

Guarantee he looks at the market every year.

 

[northside100]

This is such a key point….

Unfortunately for Purdue, the “light” has yet to come on for too many guys who were expected to play prominent roles.

I think about it this way: the vast majority of CMP recruits finish as exponentially better players than when they arrived: Edey, TKR, Fletcher, Braden, Haas, Swanigan, Etwaan, and on and on…

This is where the portal comes in— to maintain a highly competitive team until other guys reach their potential.

I gotta believe we will see much better versions of Heide and Colvin moving forward, especially if they are pushed hard by portal acquisitions…

This is the challenge CMP is faced with— one I think the will embrace and flourish with.

A year ago many here would have argued that Trey had not developed as hoped. A lot of it is tied to role and minutes. I’m not saying there aren’t guys who are not contributing as much as you’d hope, it’s just more nuanced than ‘not developing’.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

A year ago many here would have argued that Trey had not developed as hoped. A lot of it is tied to role and minutes. I’m not saying there aren’t guys who are not contributing as much as you’d hope, it’s just more nuanced than ‘not developing’.

Yeeeeep

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Willingness to listen to the coaches and work?
Self-awareness?

I’m not sure what your point is….

They are/were the focal point of the offense. You didn’t name one “role” player. Those guys get all the attention in the offense and shoot the most (rightfully so). And look like they’re developing the most. It’s not easy to go from best player on your HS team/whole life to a role player that quickly and then also be expected to hit your only 3pt shot of the game or if you haven’t shot it in a game for 3 games, to all of a sudden hit a shot. For example, myles has developed his defensive game pretty well.

But what is a “prominent role” as a role player in your eyes?

 

[Boilerfla]

A year ago many here would have argued that Trey had not developed as hoped. A lot of it is tied to role and minutes. I’m not saying there aren’t guys who are not contributing as much as you’d hope, it’s just more nuanced than ‘not developing’.

Actually excellent point in TKR, soooo will Colvin and Cam really shine next year……Jr is the time !

 

[Heads up BOILER]

They are/were the focal point of the offense. You didn’t name one “role” player. Those guys get all the attention in the offense and shoot the most (rightfully so). And look like they’re developing the most. It’s not easy to go from best player on your HS team/whole life to a role player that quickly and then also be expected to hit your only 3pt shot of the game or if you haven’t shot it in a game for 3 games, to all of a sudden hit a shot. For example, myles has developed his defensive game pretty well.

But what is a “prominent role” as a role player in your eyes?

So as a devils advocate, I will say that lack of production of guys like Heide and Colvin could be considered a function resulting from Paints offense. There are a ton of plays in the playbook and the vast majority of them are run specifically for 2 or 3 players. Painter repeatedly has said that. He tells recruits that if you are one of my top 2-3 players we’re gonna run stuff for you…
I believe this makes the offense more rigid and predictable. If you are top 3 then things are developed to accentuate your strengths In the plays being run. So in essence things are focusing on your strengths of your game. You aren’t being forced into a role not utilizing your greatest talents.
I’d also say in the two other roles the players aren’t necessarily being used in a manner consistent with optimal utilization of their specific talents. You’re possibly putting a player in a role where some of best skills don’t necessarily fit the role he’s being told to play. He’s still good but are his strengths being utilized to the fullest?
So instead should you design your offense to try to optimize the strengths of all 5 guys and not just focus on 3 with a couple guys forced into roles that don’t involve them as readily and utilize their strengths.
Case in point would be Colvin and Heide being asked to come off the bench and often be utilized as 4-5 option outlet snipers. That can be hard to develop a shooters rhythm on just a few attempts. They are Rarely being looked to for scoring and no plays to get them involved taking advantage of other possible strengths of their individual games besides being pure shooters. No motion offense to create more possible opportunities.
I think both likely possess the ability to drive the ball more than is shown but its limited by the offensive scheme of which I believe Painter is a likely a stickler about following with limited freelancing taking place.
Thoughts?

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Agree.

I think Alabama has 7 guys with 20+ point games this year. Purdue has, 5 maybe, but only 3 are consistent threats

Team severely needs more starter talent.

Might, maybe get one in Jacobsen? But need more than that.....and no one knows if he can last a season.

kids now are playing year round at a high level if they belong there. This forced break for his rapidly growing body was likely very much needed. With 6 months rest and getting stronger lifting and the training table he can be a much different player next year.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Actually excellent point in TKR, soooo will Colvin and Cam really shine next year……Jr is the time !

People see freshmen doing great things and think that all freshmen should be doing that.
It wasn't that many years ago that not a lot of guys played before their upper class years.

 

[northside100]

Actually excellent point in TKR, soooo will Colvin and Cam really shine next year……Jr is the time !

Or they pull a Newman or Morton and never really progress to the level you'd hoped. You could be right, I don't know the answer, but it's clear, IMO, that at least some of this may be circumstantial and not to write guys off. Certainly problematic that Cam and Myles are having such trouble shooting.

 

[Boilerfla]

So as a devils advocate, I will say that lack of production of guys like Heide and Colvin could be considered a function resulting from Paints offense. There are a ton of plays in the playbook and the vast majority of them are run specifically for 2 or 3 players. Painter repeatedly has said that. He tells recruits that if you are one of my top 2-3 players we’re gonna run stuff for you…
I believe this makes the offense more rigid and predictable. If you are top 3 then things are developed to accentuate your strengths In the plays being run. So in essence things are focusing on your strengths of your game. You aren’t being forced into a role not utilizing your greatest talents.
I’d also say in the two other roles the players aren’t necessarily being used in a manner consistent with optimal utilization of their specific talents. You’re possibly putting a player in a role where some of best skills don’t necessarily fit the role he’s being told to play. He’s still good but are his strengths being utilized to the fullest?
So instead should you design your offense to try to optimize the strengths of all 5 guys and not just focus on 3 with a couple guys forced into roles that don’t involve them as readily and utilize their strengths.
Case in point would be Colvin and Heide being asked to come off the bench and often be utilized as 4-5 option outlet snipers. That can be hard to develop a shooters rhythm on just a few attempts. They are Rarely being looked to for scoring and no plays to get them involved taking advantage of other possible strengths of their individual games besides being pure shooters. No motion offense to create more possible opportunities.
I think both likely possess the ability to drive the ball more than is shown but its limited by the offensive scheme of which I believe Painter is a likely a stickler about following with limited freelancing taking place.
Thoughts?

Maybe, but Paint has been very successful, so obviously hard to say they would be more successful……could go other way too

The Wisky loss wasn’t due to the O(more from BS would have helped), but D wasn’t there in 2nd half

 

[PaBoiler78]

Or they pull a Newman or Morton and never really progress to the level you'd hoped. You could be right, I don't know the answer, but it's clear, IMO, that at least some of this may be circumstantial and not to write guys off. Certainly problematic that Cam and Myles are having such trouble shooting.

or they pull a Justin Jennings or Ryan Bernning and don't shine till later in their careers

 

[Purdue58]

Wisconsin played the portal, how are they doing right now?

Is Gard somehow better than Painter? I don't think so.

If course you can play the portal. And you can be very good doing it. Look at the team that just kicked our ass at home as exhibit A.

We definitely need a rim protector.

 

[proudopete]

or they pull a Justin Jennings or Ryan Bernning and don't shine till later in their careers

On TOS I think it was Cobra who had a chart that showed players progress the most between their sophomore and junior years.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

or they pull a Justin Jennings or Ryan Bernning and don't shine till later in their careers

or......going way back, Steve Scheffler and Jim Rowinski.....and to a lesser extent, Grady Eifert.

 

[bonefish1]

I love when people get bent out of shape at the suggestion that Painter go to the portal and get 2-3 guys, who are starter level talent or could push for staring jobs:
"What will that do to team chemistry?"
"How are the current players going to feel about that?"
"Painter is loyal."
Blah blah blah.

If Painter hits the portal and scores a couple guys who earn starting roles, then all the posters here worried about it will quickly change their tune when we've got a roster capable of competing for a NC.

 

[typeviic]

I love when people get bent out of shape at the suggestion that Painter go to the portal and get 2-3 guys, who are starter level talent or could push for staring jobs:
"What will that do to team chemistry?"
"How are the current players going to feel about that?"
"Painter is loyal."
Blah blah blah.

If Painter hits the portal and scores a couple guys who earn starting roles, then all the posters here worried about it will quickly change their tune when we've got a roster capable of competing for a NC.

Or keep our core-3 seniors from running out of gas, 2/3's into the season next year.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

or they pull a Justin Jennings or Ryan Bernning and don't shine till later in their careers

Can’t ever say the jaminator ever hit his potential.

 

[northside100]

I love when people get bent out of shape at the suggestion that Painter go to the portal and get 2-3 guys, who are starter level talent or could push for staring jobs:
"What will that do to team chemistry?"
"How are the current players going to feel about that?"
"Painter is loyal."
Blah blah blah.

If Painter hits the portal and scores a couple guys who earn starting roles, then all the posters here worried about it will quickly change their tune when we've got a roster capable of competing for a NC.

He might have his hands full keeping Braden, Trey and Fletch if the struggles down the stretch continue. Starts tonight.

 

[SaratogaBoiler1]

I love when people get bent out of shape at the suggestion that Painter go to the portal and get 2-3 guys, who are starter level talent or could push for staring jobs:
"What will that do to team chemistry?"
"How are the current players going to feel about that?"
"Painter is loyal."
Blah blah blah.

If Painter hits the portal and scores a couple guys who earn starting roles, then all the posters here worried about it will quickly change their tune when we've got a roster capable of competing for a NC.

We need a 4/5 portal guy next year for sure IMO. Wouldn’t mind a 6’6 3 guy also who can contribute.