Do we seem to be getting worse at handling the press

[tjreese]

When you turn the ball over against a press, it is often a live ball turnover. Those are much worse than the dead ball variety where you get to set your defense.

Not all turnovers are created equal.

Vertical pass turnovers many times go against a set D, but horizontal passes many times go for two...why it is better to get a 10 second call than an interception against a press if about to pass horizontal...also why Zach passes out that are intercepted can go for two.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Last year we were able to do that because Ivey often broke it himself and Trevion was such a good passer.

More attitude and self confidence than anything else.

 

[tjreese]

There are a LOT of people that have never implemented a 1-2-1-1, 1-2-2 or a 2-2-1 or coached against those that see this as a simple fix. That said there are "ideal" ways that are only ideal if it fits your players. If your players are not ideal for the situation you watched on TV, it may not be ideal for the players that have to implement a certain approach (as there are many) ? It is frustrating...especially for Matt. People see on TV a successful offense against a zone, but will that approach be best against a Match-up zone...and what about your personnel? I think we all know or should know that what you could do with TJD in a press is not the same as you could do with Zach.

The coaching staff is no doubt concerned and know what they have taught and if it has been executed and if not why and if so...what needs adjusted?

Soooo many math teachers have taught the correct format to solve a problem that everyone should get an "A" and that doesn't even include "story problems" of an adaptation to the format taught...yet, we know how that turns out...

got a laugh out of Matt on the Big after the game talking about the press and comparing it to learning math!

 

[Chi-Boiler]

It just seems like we're constantly making the pass that the other team wants us to make. Like they're baiting us to do something. I don't know why we're not setting screens and letting Braden dribble.

 

[Jbigler1986]

Beat the press and go for the basket hit some of those and they will drop the press in a hurry

Agreed. When we attack and try to score we are fine. We don't attack it enough.

 

[tjreese]

It just seems like we're constantly making the pass that the other team wants us to make. Like they're baiting us to do something. I don't know why we're not setting screens and letting Braden dribble.

Purdue actually made a few nice diagonal passes and had a time or two the 2 or 3 man could have pushed it up the court. Some players are freezing in the moment. Kim was saying when Braden was bringing it up against the press to hurry and get it across and I told her they would like for you to run into their trap and it is a fine line of bringing it up quickly and not too quickly. Now someone like Carsen was low to the ground, strong and fast and he could break it himself. Braden will be able to do that as well in the future I think. I haven't seen any stats yet and so I don't know how many FTs were missed and shot or turnovers as well per half. I know it was down to around 2 minutes the first half before Purdue got in the Bonus. The press by nature is to make the game more athletic and Matt recruits skill over athleticism although he is starting to maybe get a bit of both. PSU is a very seasoned team whereas Purdue is pretty young especially in the backcourt.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Purdue actually made a few nice diagonal passes and had a time or two the 2 or 3 man could have pushed it up the court. Some players are freezing in the moment. Kim was saying when Braden was bringing it up against the press to hurry and get it across and I told her they would like for you to run into their trap and it is a fine line of bringing it up quickly and not too quickly. Now someone like Carsen was low to the ground, strong and fast and he could break it himself. Braden will be able to do that as well in the future I think. I haven't seen any stats yet and so I don't know how many FTs were missed and shot or turnovers as well per half. I know it was down to around 2 minutes the first half before Purdue got in the Bonus. The press by nature is to make the game more athletic and Matt recruits skill over athleticism although he is starting to maybe get a bit of both. PSU is a very seasoned team whereas Purdue is pretty young especially in the backcourt.

Purdue had 7 total turnovers, TJ....just 4 until the fateful stretch.

Down the stretch, Purdue went 3-8 from the FT line:

Smith 2/2
Loyer 1/4
Morton 0/2

Purdue finished 13/20 from the line; Penn State was also a stellar 14/15 from the FT line for the game

The irony of this finish is that yesterday Penn State nearly lost a 15-pt lead with just over two minutes left.....Indiana had cut it to one with 35 seconds left.

 

[tjreese]

Agreed. When we attack and try to score we are fine. We don't attack it enough.

@Dekezar No question that "if" you score effectively for many teams that put presses on and off, they probably pull it off. Which woudl be great. Course if you are real effective against that press...you probably hope they stay with the press. I suspect Purdue does such when Zach leaves, but if Zach is playing...the efficiency of attacking the press and scoring has to be better than Zach hitting 2/3 or 3/4 of his shots and possibly getting fouls drawn as well minus potential turnovers due to the press. Having Zach makes that a bit more difficult IMO. You probably don't want to eliminate the NPOTY on your own choice unless you are pretty sure you are going to score. Now if it is a clear break by a player capable of dribbling into a layup---go for it! If not, that easy decision gets more difficult

 

[tjreese]

Purdue had 7 total turnovers, TJ....just 4 until the fateful stretch.

Down the stretch, Purdue went 3-8 from the FT line:

Smith 2/2
Loyer 1/4
Morton 0/2

Purdue finished 13/20 from the line; Penn State was also a stellar 14/15 from the FT line for the game

The irony of this finish is that yesterday Penn State nearly lost a 15-pt lead with just over two minutes left.....Indiana had cut it to one with 35 seconds left.

IU got away with a few pushes and slaps against PSU in the final minutes. Just take Brandon's careless pass away to the PSU basket that never ate any time and set them up perfectly to press again and hit 2 more out of the 8 shots (can't recall if any misses were front ends?) and you add at least 2 more points to Purdue and 2 less points for PSU...that is 4 points easy (2 less for PSU and at least 2 more for Purdue) and the clock runs and no press. Now if up 6 or 7 in the last few seconds it is a bit different. Shrews knew the situation was against him and so he deliberately chose to foul Fletcher that had missed two moments before and it worked out for Shrews. Hopefully, this youthful team they learn no lead is safe and play smart until the end...which they have done more times than not. I'm thinking Mason maybe went 1/2 moments before Bradens shots, but I don't know...lots going on...

 

[Bleedinggoldandblack]

Part of it is also confidence, they don't appear to have it and seem to be just hesitant enough to trip ....example Newman's pass , was like in slow motion as he is famous for hesitant lobes that are picked off....totally agree on Loyer, he has lost his edge he once had and he looks unsure a lacks confidence, I guess Painter has left him in hoping he would find it....Jenkins is playing with confidence. Lots going on at wrong time....Jenkins and Edey are both playing focused and with confidence, Smith and Gillis are about 80-85% there....not a deep formula combined going into tournament.

 

[bonefish1]

100% he has to pass out of the press more than he does

I actually think Smith just needs to get the ball and go. This is one area where his sub 6 ft size is an advantage. He's quick enough and a good enough ball handler to dribble through the press. But when he is tentative, dribbles backwords or waits to see what the D is going to do, that's when he gets into trouble.

Either way, Painter better figure it out quickly.

 

[bonefish1]

Beat the press and go for the basket hit some of those and they will drop the press in a hurry

Agreed. We pass up way too many good open looks after we beat the press. Make the team pay for pressing and you'll likely see less of it. Plus, I'll take Edey fighting for offensive rebounds on a transition three all day.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I actually think Smith just needs to get the ball and go. This is one area where his sub 6 ft size is an advantage. He's quick enough and a good enough ball handler to dribble through the press. But when he is tentative, dribbles backwords or waits to see what the D is going to do, that's when he gets into trouble.

Either way, Painter better figure it out quickly.

Agree, Lenny that Mr. Smith is the best primary option - opponents want to force him into the short corners, so I wouldn't mind some back screens.....also wouldn't mind if they look over the top more, although that's a tougher pass from Smith with his height. I like what Gillis is doing - save the one bad pass he made against Rutgers when Morton inbounded to him.

Biggest thing I see - these guys (the players) all have to get more on the same page and have options ready before the trap comes, because it will be coming, especially in the Round of 32 game (assuming Purdue advances Friday).

 

[Mandeville LA]

Here is how I ran the press break while coaching elite level athletes ages 10-15 at the local Rec. BB league . The press break should always be designed to get the ball to the best and fastest ball handler on the floor. Smith should be inbounding the ball. There are a number of things that can be ran to get someone open, hopefully flashing to the sideline or center court. With a quick pass back to a streaking Smith up the center of the court or down the sideline. The key to me was, in this case, Smith, has to keep moving forward as fast as he can go and know when he will need to instate contact before the defender is set. Just in case MP reads these posts

 

[SLoopBoiler]

I don't disagree that a generally good approach against any zone and particularly one with a hole in the middle is for a player to flash to the middle to receive a pass and then to look opposite. This is not to get the ball from the triggerman, but after the second or third pass closer to half court where this occurs for many teams.

His scheme has had Mason and Caleb many times flashing into the middle of the zone press this year. If you were watching games from the TV you many times don't see that. Some want to see Zach get the entry pass. I've already listed "potential" concerns with that. There are few things more frustrating for a coach when struggling with a press.

The problems with the press IMO many times is spacing and personnel. You expect Ethan to be that valuable third ball handler, but yesterday when he broke the press along the sie he dribbled "too early" into the middle of that zone press and lost it since he was surrounded. Rutgers has length and so going over the top as the desired approach is rarely available. Knowing that they don't defend the sidelines as much as some teams since they keep the passes shorter and you could see it in how close there 2-2 is from each other. I talked with Vince Edwards about this a few years ago due to Iowa's 1-2-2 and he told me that they already tried the many things I asked.

Here is the thing though. Since you and I have a "general" approach or desire for the "textbook" approach, doesn't it seem reasonable that the Purdue staff does as well? Going further, don't you think the opposition that typically presses have that "general scheme" already countered?

true but yesterday it seemed like guys waited to long to dribble up not realizing they had space.

 

[bonefish1]

true but yesterday it seemed like guys waited to long to dribble up not realizing they had space.

Smith is our best ballhandler, followed by Morton and maybe Jenkins. None of them are speedsters though and for some reason, Morton has gotten really tentative against the press. They're all reacting to the press instead of attacking it. They're allowing the D to dictate where they, who's "Open", etc. This is what a good press will do.
Loyer and Newman can't be relied upon to handle the ball.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

It just seems like we're constantly making the pass that the other team wants us to make. Like they're baiting us to do something. I don't know why we're not setting screens and letting Braden dribble.

DON"T PASS THE ****ING BALL BACKWARDS is not that hard to remember. Or maybe it is......

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Smith is our best ballhandler, followed by Morton and maybe Jenkins. None of them are speedsters though and for some reason, Morton has gotten really tentative against the press. They're all reacting to the press instead of attacking it. They're allowing the D to dictate where they, who's "Open", etc. This is what a good press will do.
Loyer and Newman can't be relied upon to handle the ball.

Morton is HORRIBLE with the ball. Boy Matt laughing at our suggestions of his being the backup pg sure was accurate.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

It's a combination of factors and mostly players. Too many guys not confident in their ball handling to even TRY to advance the ball.
Lost count of how many times Brandon could have EASILY dribbled the ball over the time line (defender on his hip, wide open straight ahead) and instead stopped and THREW IT BACKWARD to a guard with now about 3 or 4 seconds left.
Same with Mason who frequently had an OPEN man STREAKING to the hoop and didn't trust himself with the quick quick pass and instead THREW IT BACKWARD To a guard with no time left.
Geeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I was yelling
If the ball comes in to a guard and he passes to someone else there is not time left to throw it backward.
Whoever gets the 2nd pass needs to immediately advance the ball, either with a dribble or another pass.
It is like (simple math, sometimes hard to see the route, but in the end, not that complicated.

 

[bonefish1]

Morton is HORRIBLE with the ball. Boy Matt laughing at our suggestions of his being the backup pg sure was accurate.

Morton was actually better with the ball a few years ago. I think it was an early pre con tourney game, maybe against Clemson, where IT couldn't handle the press. Morton came in, took over ball handling and actually did pretty well. Might have been one of his first games. Not sure what's happened since then.