Everyone is gonna Press us like crazy after today ....we look totally dysfunctional out there.
Do we seem to be getting worse at handling the press
- Thread starter Bleedinggoldandblack
- Start date
At this point why wouldnt you press us? Even if we get it past mid court we just seem happy with that instead of driving to the basket to get a easy look.
Agree. You have to attack and make the pressing team pay when you break the press. There is no reason for them to call it off, except for fatigue, if you are going to let the other team set up their half court defense after beating the press and losing time off the shot clock.
At this point, what's frustrating is that CMP continues to talk about it like it's a simple tactical thing.
But, clearly, it's not. It's clear that Purdue only has one guy (Smith) who can handle the ball, and he happens to be small, so he's easy to swallow with a double team.
The problem is the personnel. I just hope Purdue can find a way to manage the press and not have it be the reason for an early tournament exit.
The teams who press well against us, press well against a lot of teams. Purdue practices against the press, but it is much different facing the scout team in practice.
Smith is a good ball handler, but facing 6-7 guards who are excellent defenders is no easy task. You really don't have the horses to beat the press when you are facing very athletic guards who also have good size.
The silver lining is that Purdue has faced the press and won many of those games, so when they go to the NCAAs it will not be something new to them. I would also add pressing like Rutgers did is very fatiguing and you need a coach to call timeouts to help his team out or hope the clock keeps getting stopped by the refs.
Did the press cause problems with Lewjack…Carsen…even Ronnie Johnson? Braden needs another this year and Braden will get stronger next year. He was exhausted and missed 2 FTs . He covers a lot of court and plays a lot of minutes and should have better endurance next year even though he does very well for a freshman in that regard
Don’t think it is “A” press that is the problem, but the 2-2-1 in particular. I don’t think a man press would cause problem and unsure a 2-2-1 with less length would be as problematic
Just making an observation. It seems to have been a reoccurring issue over the past 15 years.
Part of it absolutely is woth Painter's press scheme. He refuses to use the big man flashing to the middle who should then immediately ball held high pivot to opposite side of court hitting a runner up the court.
This is text book proper press break.
This is text book proper press break.
Rutgers is built to press it is what they hang their hat on. Not sure why this is even a discussion when we only had 11 turnovers and won the game. I don't view it as a problem going forward. I will take 11 T/O's against a pressing team every time.
There could of been 4-5 more TOs in the second half if some inbounds weren't called fouls. This is definitely a problem. Especially when a non-BT crew is reffing in the tourney and not blowing their whistles.
Then go back to sleep , some of us saw a team struggling going into ncaa tournament against the press.....wasn't there to diminish their effort/success....certainly not to wake you. 🤣
It has been a problem..no question. What I tried to imply was that the cure was more player dependent than the knowledge in how to break different presses.
We aren't doing fundamentals on the press and that is either youth, coaching or a mix. I hate to blame CMP, but this has been the issue for many of his teams. Our guards seem to shy away from the defender(instead of a quick bounce), never attack(besides Smith), keep their head down while trying to break it, fail to make the quick outlet pass or guards that don't seem comfortable doing these phases of breaking it.
No excuse for Morton, Newman, Jenkins and Gillis to make these mistakes over and over.
No excuse for Morton, Newman, Jenkins and Gillis to make these mistakes over and over.
I think what’s happening is that Smith is too often allowing the press to control where he catches the ball or allows him to dribble. Too often, that’s into trouble. And when two 6’7 long athletes double him in a corner, he’s in trouble.
He does put himself in a corner often, but then Fletch, Newman, Jenkins and/or Morton shy away to help. Gillis seems to stay in his position, but then never comes to help. He as the passer needs to get close and make the correct, quick outlet pass to our guards. It's not just Smith, it's our players that are breaking that press.
I don't disagree that a generally good approach against any zone and particularly one with a hole in the middle is for a player to flash to the middle to receive a pass and then to look opposite. This is not to get the ball from the triggerman, but after the second or third pass closer to half court where this occurs for many teams.
His scheme has had Mason and Caleb many times flashing into the middle of the zone press this year. If you were watching games from the TV you many times don't see that. Some want to see Zach get the entry pass. I've already listed "potential" concerns with that. There are few things more frustrating for a coach when struggling with a press.
The problems with the press IMO many times is spacing and personnel. You expect Ethan to be that valuable third ball handler, but yesterday when he broke the press along the sie he dribbled "too early" into the middle of that zone press and lost it since he was surrounded. Rutgers has length and so going over the top as the desired approach is rarely available. Knowing that they don't defend the sidelines as much as some teams since they keep the passes shorter and you could see it in how close there 2-2 is from each other. I talked with Vince Edwards about this a few years ago due to Iowa's 1-2-2 and he told me that they already tried the many things I asked.
Here is the thing though. Since you and I have a "general" approach or desire for the "textbook" approach, doesn't it seem reasonable that the Purdue staff does as well? Going further, don't you think the opposition that typically presses have that "general scheme" already countered?
You don't want any, but 11 against Rutgers is or was okay
Yes, he seems to trust Gillis in the position. Gillis just isn't making the quick, correct pass to the outlets. He seems to turn to pass, but is making the wrong pass. I would like for him to dribble up the court and then make the pass after half court.
We need to get a good middle school bball coach from the IN backwoods to sign on as an assistant coach so he can teach this.
100% he has to pass out of the press more than he does
The problems generally occur within the first 25% of the court and yes getting funneled into the corner is a problem. It is easier to funnel the ball to the corner when a big is overplaying the triggerman to not allow a pass to 2/3 the width of the court, but with a 2-2-1 THAT defender is not on the ball and so it requires the 2 in front to play a bit of man to not let it get where Purdue wants. For the most part, without actually going back to review, but when the triggerman can run baseline I'd prefer Braden and such to be between the FT line and top of key, but when the triggerman can't run...he has to get closer to the baseline due to the angle left open a bit. It is and has been a problem...no surprises to the coaching staff.
I find this both funny & potentially scary at the same time that there could be crews out there WORSE than B10 crews at not blowing their whistles. That thought is horrifying. 😱
There definitely are times he could dribble across half court. Every team has or is built with trade-offs. Like all of life, there are no solutions just trade -offs. Purdue doesn't run or recruit some dribble drive players and so those more athletic players that dribble and pass the ball are on teams many times unable to defend Purdue's size with a tight whistle. Purdue has what it has...a young team with the two key ball handlers freshmen and one is pretty frail and a bit slower than he will be down the road. Right now, against length and physical play Purdue has more miscues than desired.
Agree, our youth will become the top of the B1G. They've have surprised fans and the B1G as a whole. Add our recruits to the mix and we shouldn't have any issue with a press.
YES! To ass-U-me that Painter doesn't coach well against the press is assinine. Of course he does. So, two things need to happen after he coaches it. The players need to implement what is coached, and overall, I think they do, but entering into the corner man is NOT coached, although it may be the only option. AND, with Smith being short, his passes over the top can, at times, be the correct pass, but don't get over the defenders.
So, yes, I do have a solution. Have the 3rd best ball handler take it out of bounds. Have the other two ballhandlers cut from each side and cross in front of the in-bounder. He chooses who to in-bound to and they fly up court, looking for a tall and good passer at the top of the key. Then again, I'm paid ZERO for that strategy.
I'll pay you....🤣 where can I send you the check
this is the way we were always coached, have the center at the top of the key and run off of him
There are a LOT of people that have never implemented a 1-2-1-1, 1-2-2 or a 2-2-1 or coached against those that see this as a simple fix. That said there are "ideal" ways that are only ideal if it fits your players. If your players are not ideal for the situation you watched on TV, it may not be ideal for the players that have to implement a certain approach (as there are many) ? It is frustrating...especially for Matt. People see on TV a successful offense against a zone, but will that approach be best against a Match-up zone...and what about your personnel? I think we all know or should know that what you could do with TJD in a press is not the same as you could do with Zach.
The coaching staff is no doubt concerned and know what they have taught and if it has been executed and if not why and if so...what needs adjusted?
Soooo many math teachers have taught the correct format to solve a problem that everyone should get an "A" and that doesn't even include "story problems" of an adaptation to the format taught...yet, we know how that turns out...
Too many inlet passes to the corner leads to immediate double teams trying to break the press! FUNDAMENTAL mistake!
I have never seen my press break implented. So it must not be a good one, but I want the guy who gets the inbound pass to be MOVINg up court. I want the inbounder to stay behind the ball and be reasonably tall and I want our tallest player at the top of the key.There are a LOT of people that have never implemented a 1-2-1-1, 1-2-2 or a 2-2-1 or coached against those that see this as a simple fix. That said there are "ideal" ways that are only ideal if it fits your players. If your players are not ideal for the situation you watched on TV, it may not be ideal for the players that have to implement a certain approach (as there are many) ? It is frustrating...especially for Matt. People see on TV a successful offense against a zone, but will that approach be best against a Match-up zone...and what about your personnel? I think we all know or should know that what you could do with TJD in a press is not the same as you could do with Zach.
The coaching staff is no doubt concerned and know what they have taught and if it has been executed and if not why and if so...what needs adjusted?
Soooo many math teachers have taught the correct format to solve a problem that everyone should get an "A" and that doesn't even include "story problems" of an adaptation to the format taught...yet, we know how that turns out...
Seen a lot of that, but without it being the tallest players. Remember when Smith ran the 4 corners at UNC? He spread the court to counter pressure. Location and spacing are crucial to any press break IMO
When you turn the ball over against a press, it is often a live ball turnover. Those are much worse than the dead ball variety where you get to set your defense.
Not all turnovers are created equal.
and Purdue seems to get one or two of the dreaded live ball, and-one give-aways. Amazingly, the remote has survived his year.
IMO, we are doing 2 things wrong with breaking the press. The first is that 3 guys are running towards the inbounder. One of them gets free for the pass, but immediately that player is trapped. Need to mix up the movement. The other thing is that once the ball is inbounded, the other players need to be setting screens to get Smith or whoever else has the ball up the court easier.
Beat the press and go for the basket hit some of those and they will drop the press in a hurry
Last year we were able to do that because Ivey often broke it himself and Trevion was such a good passer.
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