Did Two Tone McClapperson do a drive by on the hand shake or did it

[TwinDegrees2]

Purdue is solid and then some; congrats on a very good, clean program that plays hard, plays well, and has results to show for it.

SInce you guys are in the mood for IU threads like this one, a thought and a question;

The thought: The Crean blow by handshake WAS followed by a return visit and full congratulation from Crean to Painter. As much grief as Crean gets, this type of graciousness is reasonably common for him.
TwinD is a passionate fan, but his gold colored glasses should be focusing on Crean's lack of results as a coach and damn grateful that Purdue has had him to kick around for this long. As a human being? Crean has a flawed personality I'm more than sure, but at his core he is a well-meaning guy of integrity.

Now, a question: Now that Purdue has helped to officially end the Crean era at IU, who do you think will be the next IU coach?

Don't have Gold colored glasses....didn't like Crean at Marquette and thought the same things about him there. Can't stand the way his teams play on either side of the ball. Crean will still be your coach next year because your FB coach was fired this year. You basketball fans are going to have to wait your turn and Crean has won the Big 2 of the last four years. Do you really think Dead in the Head Fred is going to pull the trigger on the two major sports teams at IU in one year?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Mack and Holtmann are both good, but I think they get regularly mentioned in large part because of their proximity to the primary in-state fan-bases (which is understandable). Same with Fife. Also, weren't there some allegations with legs that Mack and the Blueitt family had an...ahem...understanding?

Although I know that he won't ever come back, would you take Steve Alford? Bennett won't come either, nor will Donovan who's happy coaching four months a year with no recruiting. My guess the next time IU gets a new coach, it's not going to be someone with Knight's credentials.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Do you really think Dead in the Head Fred is going to pull the trigger on the two major sports teams at IU in one year?

Abso-freaking-lutely.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Although I know that he won't ever come back, would you take Steve Alford? Bennett won't come either, nor will Donovan who's happy coaching four months a year with no recruiting. My guess the next time IU gets a new coach, it's not going to be someone with Knight's credentials.

Agreed: Alford is at a top ten historic program and is the king of West Coast recruiting. Won't be in the mix. AND... not a fan: I want a defense oriented coach and then there's that whole Pierre Pierce thing.

Bennett, Donovan, or Archie Miller?

You betcha!

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Agreed: Alford is at a top ten historic program and is the king of West Coast recruiting. Won't be in the mix. AND... not a fan: I want a defense oriented coach and then there's that whole Pierre Pierce thing.

Bennett, Donovan, or Archie Miller?

You betcha!

Like I said, you don't have to worry about Steve, or Bennett, and Miller's going to be a Gamecock next year. Or so I've heard.

And as I said before, Donovan is staying in Oklahoma and I've been told that Holzman loves being at Butler, which is now paying top dollar and getting great recruits.

BTW...did you hear that Shaq's kid is looking hard at UCLA?

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Like I said, you don't have to worry about Steve, or Bennett, and Miller's going to be a Gamecock next year. Or so I've heard.

And as I said before, Donovan is staying in Oklahoma and I've been told that Holzman loves being at Butler, which is now paying top dollar and getting great recruits.

BTW...did you hear that Shaq's kid is looking hard at UCLA?

Miller will take a downgrade to USCjr?
Butler pays top dollar?

Not sure who your source is, but that source is giving you some wacky information!

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Miller will take a downgrade to USCjr?
Butler pays top dollar?

Not sure who your source is, but that source is giving you some wacky information!

Butler will offer Holzman an extension and a significant pay raise in an order to keep him....watch. Will he get stupid offers to leave...yep. He's one of the hot one's this year, but my guess is that like Crean at IU, he'll be back at Butler. Next to Purdue, I love watching Butler and UCLA.

Okay....what about Mike Lewis asst. at Nebraska coming home to IU?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Miller will take a downgrade to USCjr?
Butler pays top dollar?

Not sure who your source is, but that source is giving you some wacky information!

I was in Dayton on business Monday and that's the rumor floating around...Archie to USC South.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

I was in Dayton on business Monday and that's the rumor floating around...Archie to USC South.

I'm thinking that's extremely wishful thinking on the part of USC fans. The Dayton fans seem to think that he would only leave for Indiana, Ohio state, or maybe his alma mater, NC State.

But hey, I guess anything is possible. You never know which power five school will crack open their checkbook and pay the man four million dollars.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I'm thinking that's extremely wishful thinking on the part of USC fans. The Dayton fans seem to think that he would only leave for Indiana, Ohio state, or maybe his alma mater, NC State.

But hey, I guess anything is possible. You never know which power five school will crack open their checkbook and pay the man four million dollars.

I'm thinking that's extremely wishful thinking on the part of USC fans. The Dayton fans seem to think that he would only leave for Indiana, Ohio state, or maybe his alma mater, NC State.

But hey, I guess anything is possible. You never know which power five school will crack open their checkbook and pay the man four million dollars.

It's asinine what guys are getting....for finishing next to last in the B10. You didn't answer me about Mike Lewis to IU which I think might be a great fit.

 

[arcb102000]

USC South? That coach there from Florida has them in the Top 25 and he is going to get canned? I do not see that at all.

There was a rumor of the NC State job for Crean and I consider that hogwash. A recent article on CBSSports.com talked about why the NCState job is a bad one. The fans have unrealistic expectations and the people that they would want will not take the job as the preferred candidates already have good ones.

After reading that I thought about the IU job and consider it analogous. The fans have unrealistic expectations going back to the RMK days and do not acknowledge that the environment has changed. Mack, Bennett, Alford, Marshall, Miller(s), Holtzman et al have good jobs and they do not have to put up with the IU fanbase. Would they get more money than they are getting now? Probably, but is the extra dough and pressure worth it? Probably not.

If you bounce Crean you are admitting to an Athletic Dept. that is poorly functioning (two revenue generating coaches fired inside 6 months) and now you replace someone 12 months from a Conference Championship for poor performance? You think that looks attractive to any coach in that tier? It makes no sense that they would want to walk into that sort of situation.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

It's asinine what guys are getting....for finishing next to last in the B10. You didn't answer me about Mike Lewis to IU which I think might be a great fit.

I assume you mean Lewis as an assistant? Sure.

Unlike Fife, he's never been a head coach and that would be a silly head coach hire. Unless you are just trying to flame by suggesting a "how low can you go" guy.

 

[BoilerBiker]

There was a rumor of the NC State job for Crean and I consider that hogwash. A recnet article on CBSSports.com talked about why the NCState job is a bad one. The fans have unrealistic expectations and the people that they would want will not take the job as the preferred candidates already have good ones.

have not seen the article but I thought NC state might be considered better now/soon....
coach K and r.williams likely won't be there a great deal longer.

state hires someone decent now and could build up the foundation while the power houses have to go through their major changes afterward

 

[HoosierfanJM]

USC South? That coach there from Florida has them in the Top 25 and he s going to get canned? I do not see that at all.

There was a rumor of the NC State job for Crean and I consider that hogwash. A recnet article on CBSSports.com talked about why the NCState job is a bad one. The fans have unrealistic expectations and the people that they would want will not take the job as the preferred candidates already have good ones.

After reading that I thought about the IU job and consider ti analogous. The fans have unrealistic expectations going back to the RMK days and do not acknowledge that the environment has changed. Mack, Bennett, Alford, Marshall, Miller(s), Holtzman et al have good jobs and they do not have to put up with the IU fanbase. Would they get more money than they are getting now? Probably, but is the extra dough and pressure worth it? Probably not.

If you bounce Crean you are admitting to an Athletic Dept. that is poorly functioning (two revenue generating coaches fired inside 6 months) and now you replace someone 12 months from a Conference Championship for poor performance? You think that looks attractive to any coach in that tier? It makes no sense that they would want to walk into that sort of situation.

Wow; I think you would be in the minority of IU and PU fans if you think Crean isn't going to be bounced because his results have been so good.

Yes, he's one year removed from a conference championship. He is also one year removed from a five seed in the NCAA tournament, and another NCAA tournament flame out. In the past four years, Indiana has only been seeded higher than a 10 seed once.

He gone, and it's mainly result based, even with last year's showing.

And, if and when the job opens up this year, it is very likely to be the highest level opening in the country. High-level coaches expect passionate fan bases, high expectations, the best conferences, very high-level facilities, a big recruiting budget, a huge paycheck, to be at a school where basketball is the highest priority sport, and a history in the sport.

You may not like IU, but those characteristics sure as heck seem to describe IU.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

USC South? That coach there from Florida has them in the Top 25 and he is going to get canned? I do not see that at all.

There was a rumor of the NC State job for Crean and I consider that hogwash. A recent article on CBSSports.com talked about why the NCState job is a bad one. The fans have unrealistic expectations and the people that they would want will not take the job as the preferred candidates already have good ones.

After reading that I thought about the IU job and consider it analogous. The fans have unrealistic expectations going back to the RMK days and do not acknowledge that the environment has changed. Mack, Bennett, Alford, Marshall, Miller(s), Holtzman et al have good jobs and they do not have to put up with the IU fanbase. Would they get more money than they are getting now? Probably, but is the extra dough and pressure worth it? Probably not.

If you bounce Crean you are admitting to an Athletic Dept. that is poorly functioning (two revenue generating coaches fired inside 6 months) and now you replace someone 12 months from a Conference Championship for poor performance? You think that looks attractive to any coach in that tier? It makes no sense that they would want to walk into that sort of situation.

The major issue now is with online social media, IU doesn't have the advantage of picking the top players from in state anymore and essentially assuring themselves of one or two top 50 guys a year. Now, MSU, ND, Butler, Purdue, OSU, Illinois, and all the other big guys have established roots in recruiting Indiana that I would consider better than IU right now. From the high school coaches I know, they respect Cream for being the coach at Indiana...but all think he is a pompous idiot who has run a lot of his contacts dry with his antics and behavior.

 

[proudopete]

Wow; I think you would be in the minority of IU and PU fans if you think Crean isn't going to be bounced because his results have been so good.

Yes, he's one year removed from a conference championship. He is also one year removed from a five seed in the NCAA tournament, and another NCAA tournament flame out. In the past four years, Indiana has only been seeded higher than a 10 seed once.

He gone, and it's mainly result based, even with last year's showing.

And, if and when the job opens up this year, it is very likely to be the highest level opening in the country. High-level coaches expect passionate fan bases, high expectations, the best conferences, very high-level facilities, a big recruiting budget, a huge paycheck, to be at a school where basketball is the highest priority sport, and a history in the sport.

You may not like IU, but those characteristics sure as heck seem to describe IU.

I remember hearing this blabber after Samson. More proof that the IU fan base has lost what knowledge about the game they used to have.

 

[arcb102000]

Hoosier, you are missing the point. I did not say that Crean is a good coach. I think that he is mediocre.

However, the question is that if he is fired, whom do you get to replace him? The point is that desired candidates have good jobs already and the extra bucks that would be offered do not offset the problems created by unrealistic expectations. The risk/reward ratio associated with the position is not favorable over the long term.

Crean did win the conference last year, weak or not. Also, getting rid of both premier coaches in a very short time does not give the impression of stability in the Athletic Administration.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Hoosier, you are missing the point. I did not say that Crean is a good coach. I think that he is mediocre.

However, the question is that if he is fired, whom do you get to replace him? The point is that desired candidates have good jobs already and the extra bucks that would be offered do not offset the problems created by unrealistic expectations. The risk/reward ratio associated with the position is not favorable over the long term.

Crean did win the conference last year, weak or not. Also, getting rid of both premier coaches in a very short time does not give the impression of stability in the Athletic Administration.

Okay, so now I believe I get your point: It's not that Crean is a good coach and has achieved (we agree here), it's that if he were fired after his very recent good year, IU would be perceived as an unstable, unrealistic program, both vis-a-vis the fanbase and the administration.

Every fact you site is accurate, but the facts you site are not the only relevant facts, and if a high-level candidate (Donovan, Bennett, Archie, maybe even Collins) has the inclination to explore the IU job, they will look at ALL of the relevant factors. They will undoubtedly understand the reality of Crean; that he is a 'quirky' (at best) personality that has huge potential to wear out his welcome. That Crean has a below .500 in-conference record over a large sample size of nine years, that IU is currently 13th in conference, etc. They will also understand the quite good reputation of AD Glass, though admittedly that is my anecdotal impression.

Glass has not willy-nilly fired coaches; Wilson got five years and was dumped to prevent real lawsuits and get out in front of abuse of injured players issues after having been previously warned to not cross that line. Crean has had nine years.

A realistic high level coach (not Self, Izzo, Wright, etc, and only Donovan if he is not happy in the NBA) will look at the entirety of the situation, and I stand by the points I listed as positives for IU: passionate fan base, high expectations, one of the best conferences, very high-level facilities, a big recruiting budget, a huge paycheck, to be at a school where basketball is the highest priority sport, and a history in the sport, not to mention a well-stocked cupboard of players.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Okay, so now I believe I get your point: It's not that Crean is a good coach and has achieved (we agree here), it's that if he were fired after his very recent good year, IU would be perceived as an unstable, unrealistic program, both vis-a-vis the fanbase and the administration.

Every fact you site is accurate, but the facts you site are not the only relevant facts, and if a high-level candidate (Donovan, Bennett, Archie, maybe even Collins) has the inclination to explore the IU job, they will look at ALL of the relevant factors. They will undoubtedly understand the reality of Crean; that he is a 'quirky' (at best) personality that has huge potential to wear out his welcome. That Crean has a below .500 in-conference record over a large sample size of nine years, that IU is currently 13th in conference, etc. They will also understand the quite good reputation of AD Glass, though admittedly that is my anecdotal impression.

Glass has not willy-nilly fired coaches; Wilson got five years and was dumped to prevent real lawsuits and get out in front of abuse of injured players issues after having been previously warned to not cross that line. Crean has had nine years.

A realistic high level coach (not Self, Izzo, Wright, etc, and only Donovan if he is not happy in the NBA) will look at the entirety of the situation, and I stand by the points I listed as positives for IU: passionate fan base, high expectations, one of the best conferences, very high-level facilities, a big recruiting budget, a huge paycheck, to be at a school where basketball is the highest priority sport, and a history in the sport, not to mention a well-stocked cupboard of players.

Question for you JM...As a former IU fan for many years, and as one who has donated much to the University and an IU guy, I ask realistically why you would include Collins in that group. He's a Chicago boy, he's brought Northwestern to the NCAA's for the first time in their history, he's a Saint, a Hero, an Icon for doing so, and my question is why are IU fans (having been one, I already know the answer) so delusional when thinking IU basketball will draw him away? Or bring Miller, or Donovan, or any of the other's such as Marshall whom I think would be way too much like IU's current clown.

It's as if, and I'm not saying "you", many IU fans have Delusional Disorder, having suffered through an ignorant Davis, a corrupt Sampson, and now whatever tag you choose to put on what I see as a laughing stock on the court.

 

[SIBoiler2]

.............. a well-stocked cupboard of players that don't have a clue how to take instructions from a real coaching staff and believe it's more important to get theirs than to be part of something bigger and many of whom are likely looking for new pastures for next season.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

.............. a well-stocked cupboard of players that don't have a clue how to take instructions from a real coaching staff and believe it's more important to get theirs than to be part of something bigger and many of whom are likely looking for new pastures for next season.

As a long-time coach, I can tell you that there comes a time that you simply tell players that next year, your services will no longer be needed, that you're welcome to stay on and get your degree AS A STUDENT, and that they will be helped in any way possible to transfer to the school of your choice. Bruce Weber did that recently at K State, Huggy has done it as have other coaches in different sports. Will Tommy have the sack to do that, I doubt it. I do believe Bryant listens, but he's auditioning for the pro's. Blackmon the same, and both will be gone on their own. Crean has next year to clean up the mess that he's brought in to Bloomington, next year to change some of his methods and techniques. If that happens and they show promise and play well, he'll most likely get an extension. If not, he'll be gone.

 

[SIBoiler2]

As a long-time coach, I can tell you that there comes a time that you simply tell players that next year, your services will no longer be needed, that you're welcome to stay on and get your degree AS A STUDENT, and that they will be helped in any way possible to transfer to the school of your choice. Bruce Weber did that recently at K State, Huggy has done it as have other coaches in different sports. Will Tommy have the sack to do that, I doubt it. I do believe Bryant listens, but he's auditioning for the pro's. Blackmon the same, and both will be gone on their own. Crean has next year to clean up the mess that he's brought in to Bloomington, next year to change some of his methods and techniques. If that happens and they show promise and play well, he'll most likely get an extension. If not, he'll be gone.

How Tommy has risen to the level of coaching he's at is beyond my understanding. The man clearly has no clue how to adjust in game, develop players, teach defense or maintain control of a team. I'd argue his one really great IU team was the result of the baby of the Zeller family wanting to stay close to home more than anything to do with his ability to recruit. When Z signed on so did a lot of others that had played with and against him in HS and on the AAU circuit and knew he was a winner and a solid kid. Had Zeller been from Nashville TN instead of nearby Washington IN it never would have happened.

 

[Heller]

As a long-time coach, I can tell you that there comes a time that you simply tell players that next year, your services will no longer be needed, that you're welcome to stay on and get your degree AS A STUDENT, and that they will be helped in any way possible to transfer to the school of your choice. Bruce Weber did that recently at K State, Huggy has done it as have other coaches in different sports. Will Tommy have the sack to do that, I doubt it. I do believe Bryant listens, but he's auditioning for the pro's. Blackmon the same, and both will be gone on their own. Crean has next year to clean up the mess that he's brought in to Bloomington, next year to change some of his methods and techniques. If that happens and they show promise and play well, he'll most likely get an extension. If not, he'll be gone.

Where is Blackmon going? Bryant should go but the others haven't shown any ability to play 40 minutes at both ends of the floor.

 

[arcb102000]

Collins is from the northern suburbs of Chicago. He is leading NW to its first NCAA berth. He is a god at that university. It is likely that he has a program on the upswing and extraordinary support from the institution and its fans. To leave now for an unsettled situation would be foolish imo. Look at Fitzgerald. He has ties to the institution and has had success there. He has attracted interest elsewhere but he has not aggressively sought to move. He knows that he is in a stable situation and that a bad year or two will not kill him there. Collins must see that as an advantage. At IU, he has no lasting ties and thus support, while perhaps initially there, could quickly evaporate if unrealistic expectations are not met. Why seek out trouble when it can easily find you on its own?

 

[arcb102000]

Hoosier, you also cite Crean having 9 years. Excuse me, but for the longest time IU posters have told us that his first 3 years need to be ignored because of the decimation of the program from l'affaire Sampson. Anyone who raised his record during that time was a dunce who understood nothing. Now that you folks are unhappy with him, the three years are to be included in judgment despite the prior claims of irrelevancy. This is historic revisionism at its worst. Can we please be consistent as this gets confusing to those with a memory?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Where is Blackmon going? Bryant should go but the others haven't shown any ability to play 40 minutes at both ends of the floor.

Heller, someone will draft him but not where he would have been drafted without the injuries. He's just too damned good a shooter. Will OG get drafted after sitting out this season? What about Davis who, IMO, should have been in the line up from day one. Won't surprise me to see him at least test the waters.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Hoosier, you also cite Crean having 9 years. Excuse me, but for the longest time IU posters have told us that his first 3 years need to be ignored because of the decimation of the program from l'affaire Sampson. Anyone who raised his record during that time was a dunce who understood nothing. Now that you folks are unhappy with him, the three years are to be included in judgment despite the prior claims of irrelevancy. This is historic revisionism at its worst. Can we please be consistent as this gets confusing to those with a memory?

Arc: you are a veteran, substantive poster, and you well know that what one poster says is the opinion of that poster, and that the variety of opinions in the fan base will differ greatly.

My take? A full pass for years one and two, year three was a huge disappointment, and after Zeller and Oladipo left, the trend has been one step forward, two steps back for a long enough sample size to reach a conclusion.

As for Collins as a possibility? Maybe wishful thinking because I think that he and Archie are stars in the making. BUT, he doesn't make much money at NU, They will play next year in Rosemont due to their gym rehab, and after that rehab the place will still only hold 7,500 fans.

You keep coming back to IU being such an unsettled situation. I suppose any coaching change unsettles things a bit, but Crean would be leaving talented players, top shelf facilities, +3.0 team gpa , his successor would definitely NOT be following a legend, no NCAA issues, and turnover after nine years; not a flighty quick switch. I think it's a really good situation to walk into.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Arc: you are a veteran, substantive poster, and you well know that what one poster says is the opinion of that poster, and that the variety of opinions in the fan base will differ greatly.

My take? A full pass for years one and two, year three was a huge disappointment, and after Zeller and Oladipo left, the trend has been one step forward, two steps back for a long enough sample size to reach a conclusion.

As for Collins as a possibility? Maybe wishful thinking because I think that he and Archie are stars in the making. BUT, he doesn't make much money at NU, They will play next year in Rosemont due to their gym rehab, and after that rehab the place will still only hold 7,500 fans.

You keep coming back to IU being such an unsettled situation. I suppose any coaching change unsettles things a bit, but Crean would be leaving talented players, top shelf facilities, +3.0 team gpa , definitely NOT following a legend, no NCAA issues, and turnover after nine years, not a flighty quick switch. I think it's a really good situation to walk into.

Really don't believe money at NW will be an issue. They have a huge Alumni base with a ton of money to support the program, and I think the only other job he's interested in is Duke.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Really don't believe money at NW will be an issue. They have a huge Alumni base with a ton of money to support the program, and I think the only other job he's interested in is Duke.

That makes a lot of sense, but IU would be crazy not to inquire in my opinion.

 

[arcb102000]

Hoosier, I get what you are saying for yourself and your opinion, but you must also acknowledge that what I cited was well-established regarding numerous Peegsters and their opinions. I am not cherry-picking here but rather reflecting a consensus. In any group there is a distribution but I was referring to midpoints in them.

In the absence of the football firing, I believe that the probability of Crean going increases substantially. Whether that was justified or not, the football coach did have a good record for the IU program and was dismissed. My point is that two firings for not bad performance in a short time gives the impression of instability. Does a high profile candidate want to walk into that? I see it as a negative, not that it perhaps cannot be overcome. Is it insurmountable, maybe so? In fairness, you must also see that the other sport outcome does have a negative perception regarding the BB program.

Also, thanks for the compliment, your posts are not too bad either.

I also agree that Collins to Duke would not surprise me at all.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Hoosier, I get what you are saying for yourself and your opinion, but you must also acknowledge that what I cited was well-established regarding numerous Peegsters and their opinions. I am not cherry-picking here but rather reflecting a consensus. In any group there is a distribution but I was referring to midpoints in them.

In the absence of the football firing, I believe that the probability of Crean going increases substantially. Whether that was justified or not, the football coach did have a good record for the IU program and was dismissed. My point is that two firings for not bad performance in a short time gives the impression of instability. Does a high profile candidate want to walk into that? I see it as a negative, not that it perhaps cannot be overcome. Is it insurmountable, maybe so? In fairness, you must also see that the other sport outcome does have a negative perception regarding the BB program.

Also, thanks for the compliment, your posts are not too bad either.

I also agree that Collins to Duke would not surprise me at all.

"I am not cherry-picking here but rather reflecting a consensus. In any group there is a distribution but I was referring to midpoints in them."

Dang, debating on a Purdue board is a whole different flavor of quantitative analysis...lol and kudos!

FWIW, I agree; I'm not a Peegs guy, but I'm more than sure that a 'midpoint consensus' of the Peegs Free Board gibberish would reflect that. I guess I would counter that even the ever-changing opinions of posters that fling feces against the message board wall reflects a legit changing of the tide at some point, and a vast majority of the IU fan base have more than reached that point.

As for the football change being very relevant? Your point is clear, but I think we can agree to disagree. The IU football program matters to the IU basketball program currently about as much as it would at Purdue. What matters is the reasons for the football switch, and the sanity and job security of the AD who made it. On those counts I believe IU is on solid ground.

 

[peytonrules]

Hoosier, I get what you are saying for yourself and your opinion, but you must also acknowledge that what I cited was well-established regarding numerous Peegsters and their opinions. I am not cherry-picking here but rather reflecting a consensus. In any group there is a distribution but I was referring to midpoints in them.

In the absence of the football firing, I believe that the probability of Crean going increases substantially. Whether that was justified or not, the football coach did have a good record for the IU program and was dismissed. My point is that two firings for not bad performance in a short time gives the impression of instability. Does a high profile candidate want to walk into that? I see it as a negative, not that it perhaps cannot be overcome. Is it insurmountable, maybe so? In fairness, you must also see that the other sport outcome does have a negative perception regarding the BB program.

Also, thanks for the compliment, your posts are not too bad either.

I also agree that Collins to Duke would not surprise me at all.

ARC, I always enjoy your posts also but saying the football coach had a good record at IU is incorrect. IU was 26-47 overall and 12-37 in the B1G in his time at IU. I would hardly call that a good record. To his credit he did get them to two straight bowl games but with so many bowls nowadays its hard not to make a bowl.

As for Collins, I don't think that is a possibility. I also think Duke will be his next stop. As for IU I am in the Donovan, Miller, Miller, Mack camp. Not sure how realistic Donovan and Sean Miller would be but I believe both Archie Miller and Chris Mack would come in a heart beat and both would be excellent hires.

 

[boilernuke]

Like I said, you don't have to worry about Steve, or Bennett, and Miller's going to be a Gamecock next year. Or so I've heard.

What??? Might need to check your sources. USC loves Frank Martin. Best coach they have had in a while. Program is in upward direction. He's not going anywhere.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

What??? Might need to check your sources. USC loves Frank Martin. Best coach they have had in a while. Program is in upward direction. He's not going anywhere.

All I know....is what was told to me by a huge backer of the Dayton BB program. Guess he could have meant NC State and said the wrong school, but he seemed pretty sure that was where Archie was going to wind up. He jokingly said he hated to see Archie go because the eye candy would go with him.

 

[arcb102000]

Peyton, please reread my post carefully. I said that the football coach had a good record for the IU program, which is historically the worst in the nation. That is different than saying that he had a good record relative to the country.

My statement is correct as written.

 

[proudopete]

"I am not cherry-picking here but rather reflecting a consensus. In any group there is a distribution but I was referring to midpoints in them."

Dang, debating on a Purdue board is a whole different flavor of quantitative analysis...lol and kudos!

FWIW, I agree; I'm not a Peegs guy, but I'm more than sure that a 'midpoint consensus' of the Peegs Free Board gibberish would reflect that. I guess I would counter that even the ever-changing opinions of posters that fling feces against the message board wall reflects a legit changing of the tide at some point, and a vast majority of the IU fan base have more than reached that point.

As for the football change being very relevant? Your point is clear, but I think we can agree to disagree. The IU football program matters to the IU basketball program currently about as much as it would at Purdue. What matters is the reasons for the football switch, and the sanity and job security of the AD who made it. On those counts I believe IU is on solid ground.

If IU did its hiring and firing based on the fan base, Knight would still be there choking players out.

 

[peytonrules]

Peyton, please reread my post carefully. I said that the football coach had a good record for the IU program, which is historically the worst in the nation. That is different than saying that he had a good record relative to the country.

My statement is correct as written.

Actually the IU coaches that have coached at least 60 games Kevin Wilson ranks third worst in winning percentage. Only Phil Dickens, who coached in the 1950's (.333) and Cam Cameron (.327) had worse winning percentages than Kevin Wilson. Wilson did many good things on offense at IU but he left many winnable games in the L column.

 

[arcb102000]

Peyton I am sure that your stats are correct and I admit to not following their program closely, especially going back decades. But I do know that Wilson was viewed by the fan base favorably prior to his firing. Going to consecutive bowls was a rare feat for their program, which was my basic.point.

 

[Purdue85]

Miller will take a downgrade to USCjr?
Butler pays top dollar?

Not sure who your source is, but that source is giving you some wacky information!

Butler doesn't have to pay "top dollar" to keep coaches. Coaches love it there. All they have to keep them happy, and for many it's not just about the $$.

 

[Dryfly88]

Butler doesn't have to pay "top dollar" to keep coaches. Coaches love it there. All they have to keep them happy, and for many it's not just about the $$.

C'mon, you don't really believe that. Do you think Stevens left because he had always dreamed of coaching the Celtics and went there for the same or less money? Of course not, he left because of the cash! There is nothing magical about Butler, they will lose coaches for more money just like any other school.