Yes, he definitely said that he had room for one more on, I believe, signing day when the first 5 signed.
Colvin
- Thread starter BoilerDeac
- Start date
Definitely happened in the IL game. Loyer was 1-8 with 5 points, got abused on defense the whole game and played 27 mins. Colvin never left the bench. This was the game that brought on a lot of the talk about why Colvin wasn't playing.
I never said it can’t be improved. I said expecting some massive improvement over a summer is a lot to expect. I do know shooting can be improved, but I also think some people are innately better shooters than others. It’s not one or the other. There is nuance.
Some people play better in games. Some people play better in practice.
Of course, practice is incredibly important, but there is no duplicate for an actual game. Sometimes you have to let a super talented kid take his lumps in the game and learn in that environment.
Are we just all going to act like Paint didn’t let Jaden Ivey play matador defense regularly without benching him? Something else is at play. I don’t pretend to know what it is, but to act like Painter has gone all Norman Dale “my teams on the floor” over sloppy defense is a bit much. Hell, does the Paint Crew even keep the “Defense Lives Here” stat board anymore?
No question some people are innately better shooters. I suggested such when I talked about his length and the effects. Hand.. eye are also in play. I also mentioned that I didn't expect him to be the shooter like Lance, Fletcher or Braden...and throw in Mason and so I wrote in agreement that the level of improvement may never reach those players.
However ALL can improve...even the good ones. I have no idea how old you are, but Zo went from not being a threat to being a big time threat behind the arc...and as I said...I personally saw what Ernie did with Mike. He can become a threat to score on the perimeter...which he currently isn't, from the time the season ends until it begins next year. I'm fully confident in that. It is up to him. Whether that is massive improvement or not I do not know, but it is sufficient improvement to make him more of a load and to massively improve the team next year IMO.
Colvin played 17 minutes against Jacksonville with 11 pts on 4/8 shooting (2/6 3-pt FG) and 1/2 FT's; Loyer played 20 minutes and had 6 pts on 2/8 shooting (2/6 3-pt FG).
TX Southern, Colvin played 16 minutes with 9 pts on 2/7 shooting (2/6 3-pt FG) and 3/4 FT's; Loyer played 17 minutes and had 5 pts on 1/4 shooting (1/2 3-pt FG) and 2/2 FT's.
Myles Colvin's double-digit minute games:
Jacksonville - 17
Samford - 16
TX Southern - 16
Alabama (N) - 15
Iowa - 14
Gonzaga (N) - 13
Morehead State - 12
Eastern Kentucky - 12
Xavier - 11
Penn State - 11
No road games and didn't play against Illinois or @ Iowa.
So lose a few games with Colvin, get a tougher path to the final four, play out west with the majority of the fans against you, get bad calls because the refs are easily swayed by fans....all because we maybe could raise our ceiling with Colvin?...no thanks...I'll take the easier path in front of our fans with guys that have shown to be better offensive and defensive players....Colvin's time is next year....until then he needs to maximize his playing time and be a good teammate....your proposal makes no sense....
So half the games he had double digit minutes. More than what I thought and imagine more than some others thought
I didn’t say lose games by playing Colvin…why are you making things up?
I’m not saying sacrifice wins to play Colvin. I’m just saying he needs to play more than someone like Morton, who offers next to nothing.
Don't disagree on loyer but it's not from effort. Colvin is ok on the ball but is the worst defender since wheeler off the ball. It seems like an easy fix and purdue won't reach its potential until he embraces it.
This.
It’s pretty simple from my un-trained perspective:
When Myles improves as a player, he’ll see more time on the floor
Obviously you don't know basketball if you think Colvin is out performing Morton in the limited minutes they both play....against Iowa if we would've put in Colvin at some point, Iowa might've gone on a run and we lose that lead....then who know what happens....same with Illinois....Colvin slows down our offense and gets lost on defense.....our 5 starters and Gillis rightfully play most of the minutes....the back ups should go to who is the most productive in limited minutes....that's Morton....Colvin requires extra time to get settled in...his time is next year in close games, not this year....it's like I'm trying to have a conversation with a 5 year old here....
Morton gives us a second ball handler on the floor at all times and that has been huge for this team.
Ivey didn’t start his career on a highly ranked team like Colvin did.
And who was going to play over Ivey? Feel like there wasn’t much competition so Paint had no other choice really…and paint crew prob doesn’t have “Defense Lives Here” because during Jaden’s time, no defense lived in Mackey 😂 lots of offense but no defense…and then we lost to North Texas in Indy in the first round and then Saint Peters in S16.
As much as I have advocated for
Morton not to play, he is the main guy that comes in and runs point when Braden finally gets a breather (minimal). Morton has been solid, not great and not bad. That’s what the team needs in his 10-12 min a game (since that’s what he’s played so far). As long as he doesn’t hurt the team, then I’m fine with him playing. If Colvin was a PG, I’d be advocating for him to play more…but he’s not so Morton gets those 2-5 min a game, whether ppl like it or not.
Haha okay, man. Calling me a 5 year old? Says everything about yourself when you resort to immature, name calling tactics like that.
Morton productive in limited minutes? How can you say Colvin “required extra time” to get settled in when he drained the second, third and fourth shots he took the other night?
It’s perfectly okay to agree to disagree, but let’s cut it with the insults. I haven’t insulted you, and there’s no need for that here.
I’ve seen this show before with guys like Morton getting minutes—in the past it’s led to unprecedented tournament upsets. Hoping to avoid that again this year.
Be well, friend.
Thompson, Hunter, Sasha, Newman, Morton 😂
Just saying if it was really about defense, Painter had options.
The most peculiar part to me is that he got bigger minutes in games against solid competition in Maui and against Bama. The IU game was basically over at halftime but Colvin only got like a minute or two in that one.
Oh well. It is what it is. In the end, I think this will turn out to be much ado about nothing.
Two things at play that differ:
Myles Colvin isn’t close to as good as Ivey
Purdue didn’t have a better option for Ivey. They do for Colvin.
I agree about Colvin in the better competition games.
Ivey was better than PJ (5’8), Newman (meh on defense), Hunter ..I’ll give you that but he wasn’t that much better and Morton…well in addition to what we all think, had mono too haha. Oh and Sasha still doesn’t know the word defense 😂
Agree but he’s the best we got. I assume in an absolute crunch we would have Lance run it. But when smith needs a rest, Morty is the guy called upon
Painter has made sure to have two of the three, (Smith, Jones or Morton) on the floor at all times. This gives us two ball handlers on the floor throughout the game.
This change alone has cut our turnover rate and helped us easily beat the press.
Not at all. I admitted I was ignorant. You seem to be getting overly emotional about something you want to happen over which you have no control. And you can't expect everyone on this board to agree with you.
Yeah, you know the 9 pts in 7 mins... just terrible production. Morton is way more productive like the 9 games in a row where he played decent mins and didn't score. Morton is shooting 25% from the field on the year. He has scored 20 points in 248 mins. He gets a lot of credit for his defense, but he came in and played 13 mins against IL, Loyer was terrible in that game and got 27 mins. Colvin 0 mins. Morton's D tho... Domask 26 pts and Goode a CAREER high 16! WOW! Imagine if Colvin was in there...Goode probably would've had 30, right? Lol it's just like yes he loses his man sometimes...If you watch closely, Morton does too at times. Loyer does too at times. I like Loyer and if he's hitting, obviously typically his O outweighs his liability on D. Morton isn't anywhere close to a lock down defender. He's no Kramer or Ray Davis. He gets a lot of credit without results. At times he can slow a guy down, but that's a specific type of player and definitely not a quick PG. We've had some PGs and 2 guards destroy us this year and he wasn't the answer to guard them. I just don't buy into everybody acting like Colvin is such a liability defensively and discredit what he adds offensively. Most don't knock Loyer for the same thing and say Morton's D outweighs his lack of O. It's just a give and take and I think Colvin has earned some mins in the rotation based off of O production and his O outweighs his shortcomings on D. Some matchups better than others and I also like to ride the hot hand. If Loyer is hot, by all means stay with him. If not, I'm in favor of giving Colvin mins to see if he's got that 3 for 4 or 4 or 6 in him that day, because we all know he is capable of that. Just think it's a bit ridiculous to give it that blanket response of...."he just isn't defending well enough to garner any mins." If you want to call Morton a backup point guard, that's fine. Braden plays 35 mins a game or more typically. I'm good with Morton playing just very limited mins. Between the 2 or 3, I just think that you can make an argument that Colvin should be in the rotation and has earned that with his offensive production.
To say Colvin and Morton play the same position is totally blind to how the team functions....Morton is a combo guard, Colvin is a wing....Colvin gets lost on d and he Jack's up shots immediately when he comes in....when we need subs to come in for short minutes, Morton knows how to be productive...he'll guard his man, play team defense, always be in position, pass the ball to our top scorers, and shoot only when it's necessary....if you want Colvin to play over someone else it would be heide....but heide is good in minimal minutes, but they play the same position, wing....they both don't handle the ball like Morton...it just becomes a tiring argument because people say the same thing over and over without knowing what's going on....
Yeah no.....Colvin will shoot you out of games quickly too....he's really raw and other than maybe getting hot, he doesn't add too much to the team....that's a big risk for a team that relies on everyone being on the same page...for those small sub minutes, you need guys that won't hurt you while the starters get rest...Morton and heide are those types of players...Colvin is still a year away...honestly he should've redshirted this year....
Haven't been involved in the conversation but my take is somewhere in between.
Colvin has shown himself to be a good three-point shooter but gives Purdue little else. Neither statistically or the intangibles that folks like to refer to on this board. He doesn't use his athleticism in any meaningful way. No rebounds, steals, assists. At this point he doesn't get to the basket, run the floor or play defense. At this point I don't think he's a difference maker.
However, what is confusing to me is if he's part of Painter's longer-term plans, why doesn't Painter do more to keep him happy. For example, even in the first half did anyone really think that Michigan was going to come back on us when we were up 20 at home. The game had the feel of an early season nonconference game. At that point why not give Colvin 4 or 5 minutes, if for nothing else than to keep him happy. It's also confusing to me why Painter in blowouts give all the walk on minutes (we have a lot of walk-ons). Last game they came in with 3 or 4 minutes left. Why not give those minutes to guys like Colvin, Furst, Heide, Berg and Waddell. It's not our fault our 8,9,10, 11 and 12 men are better than Michigan's starters.
Colvin has shown himself to be a good three-point shooter but gives Purdue little else. Neither statistically or the intangibles that folks like to refer to on this board. He doesn't use his athleticism in any meaningful way. No rebounds, steals, assists. At this point he doesn't get to the basket, run the floor or play defense. At this point I don't think he's a difference maker.
However, what is confusing to me is if he's part of Painter's longer-term plans, why doesn't Painter do more to keep him happy. For example, even in the first half did anyone really think that Michigan was going to come back on us when we were up 20 at home. The game had the feel of an early season nonconference game. At that point why not give Colvin 4 or 5 minutes, if for nothing else than to keep him happy. It's also confusing to me why Painter in blowouts give all the walk on minutes (we have a lot of walk-ons). Last game they came in with 3 or 4 minutes left. Why not give those minutes to guys like Colvin, Furst, Heide, Berg and Waddell. It's not our fault our 8,9,10, 11 and 12 men are better than Michigan's starters.
I don't think Matt is worried about keeping Colvin happy. What he sees from Colvin in practice, does not make him feel he is ready and that he will make our team worse. Matt is not into the touch feely world, he wants to win now.
This same thing was said about Newman, but when he got consistent minutes and didn’t get the quick hook, he did all those things. It’s kind of a double edged sword. Right now, the way he can contribute and make the most of his few minutes is to hit 3s.
Kind of agree, but Morton, Heide seem to impact the game more in their limited minutes. Just from his athleticism alone you would think he'd get a few more rebounds, be disruptive on defense (even if he's out of position) or even get a few more loose balls.
Here are his ranks per 40 minutes on team (includes walk-ons so there are 17 guys):
Points 4th
3 Point Baskets 1st
Two Point Baskets 11th
Rebounds 16th
Assists 14th
Steals 7th
Blocks 8th
I really think your wrong. I would think Painter would try to find ways to keep guys who he believes are going to be core guys in future years happy as long as it doesn't impact this year's team success.
If you read my post, I was saying I don't believe Colvin is the answer in close games. What I was saying is I would think Painter would give him some time when the game isn't in doubt. It wouldn't impact the success of this year's team but could impact what the roster looks like going forward.
Personally, I don't care if Colvin or any other player(s) comes back next year. We have enough coming back and enough incoming talent to be successful next year with or without Colvin. Who knows, maybe that's Painter's view as well.
We have been kings of the regular season three years in a row now. Painter is doing a great job with that no doubt.
Those who are advocating for more Colvin playing time are looking ahead to March where we have struggled regardless of our top kenpom rankings. It’s not unreasonable to believe a more experienced Colvin could help us on offense when the shots aren’t falling and Edey is being doubled.
I really don't have a dog in this hunt. But just for discussion, what position do you think Morton plays? What position do you think Colvin plays?
I’m aware Morton is a combo guard and also aware of the role he’s supposed to play. Saying that Morton “handles” the ball is fairly generous, in my opinion. He makes some nice entry passes and sets up the offense but that’s about it. You lose with guards like that in March.
And yet, with all that, I still don’t think Morton makes much of a difference. Purdue is not going to win a game because of Morton, but it certainly could lose a game down the road because teams focus on Edey and dare someone like Morton to beat them.
I’m aware that Colvin is a wing and does get lost on defense—and I still think it’s worth it to give him more minutes. Painter himself admitted that Painter has been stubborn in the past, and that stubbornness has hurt Purdue at times.
Sometimes, you have to get out of being so rigid and try something new, like trial and error with different lineups. Who knows? Maybe Myles is a better ball handler than we’ve seen? Also, not getting lost on defense is something that’s much more fixable than having zero offensive game like Morton.
Also, we’ve seen Morton get lost on defense plenty of times and in big moments. For example, Cam Spencer hit a game winner against Purdue because Morton got lost and over helped.
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