CMP Salary Increases? Should Be a Final 4 Bonus...

DAG10

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Name the coaches you would rather have than CMP that are currently coaching. I asked this if a Painter hater on KHC and they could only come up with 12.
I am not a Painter-hater, nor have I said at any point that I would rather have someone else...

I assume that "12" is a typo, or, someone else must really indeed not like him.

It has nothing at all to do with wanting someone else...you were the one that has tried to go to great lengths to establish that he is some tremendous coach...really good coach, I agree wholeheartedly, but, just as he has done more with less a lot, he has done less with more on more than one occasion as well unfortunately.

Again...with the way things are at the moment...it does not even matter.

I think you are wrong as to how long he may stay...and, I don't think there is a candidate right now from his tree that would make sense...for the moment though, it too does not matter.
 

boilerball2021

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boilerball2021

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I like Painter, know him personally. I think he's a solid coach, decent recruiter, represents Purdue well. But.....I'm not going to lose much sleep when he leaves because I think it'll be an exciting time to change the program and see of someone else can get us over the proverbial hump.
in terms of getting a proven coach, you have no idea whether that might happen. Nor do I. I do know that the level of coach is directly correlated to the investment.
Given that you’ve been on this account since 2004 and allegedly had one before, I’m guessing you are old enough that you will never see another coach.
 

boilerball2021

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I am not a Painter-hater, nor have I said at any point that I would rather have someone else...

I assume that "12" is a typo, or, someone else must really indeed not like him.

It has nothing at all to do with wanting someone else...you were the one that has tried to go to great lengths to establish that he is some tremendous coach...really good coach, I agree wholeheartedly, but, just as he has done more with less a lot, he has done less with more on more than one occasion as well unfortunately.

Again...with the way things are at the moment...it does not even matter.

I think you are wrong as to how long he may stay...and, I don't think there is a candidate right now from his tree that would make sense...for the moment though, it too does not matter.
That person originally thought they could easily name 25+ coaches they would rather have than Painter. The 12 were basically just the championship coaches and a handful of others that have been to multiple final 4s.

Who is the candidate from his tree?
 

DAG10

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Given that you’ve been on this account since 2004 and allegedly had one before, I’m guessing you are old enough that you will never see another coach.
Bad guess....and, to that point, I would guess that he sees not just another, but, likely even at least 2.
 

boilerball2021

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Bad guess....and, to that point, I would guess that he sees not just another, but, likely even at least 2.
How old is he? If you think he sees two more, then I guess you aren’t very confident in “Painter’s Replacement” either.
 

DAG10

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That person originally thought they could easily name 25+ coaches they would rather have than Painter. The 12 were basically just the championship coaches and a handful of others that have been to multiple final 4s.

Who is the candidate from his tree?
Like say, that person indeed does not like (or appreciate) him then...

I mean, if we are just throwing out names of people that we wish coached at/for Purdue. so be it, but, not sure what that accomplishes...in this discussion or any for that matter.
 

DAG10

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How old is he? If you think he sees two more, then I guess you aren’t very confident in “Painter’s Replacement” either.
I am not sure that it is a lack of confidence in the replacement as much as in Purdue in hiring said replacement.

I am guessing the replacement comes from the tree that you had alluded to, and, if so, then I do not have great confidence.

If someone else comes in without ties to Purdue and does manage to have high level success, he may leave...that is another scenario.

Again...with things as they are...I don't even know that it matters...without the ability to land national-level or elite recruits, I don't think it matters who is coaching there...even Stevens had a couple of elite-caliber guys at Butler.
 
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Dryfly88

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Not at a place to dig up a bunch of different numbers, so I’ll just provide this.
That was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

Seems weird that the coaches in the BIG would rate IU as having the 4th best recruiting area and PU is 10th. They are only a couple hours away from each other. they literally share the same recruiting area. I think some of the coaches must have misunderstood the question. We were 5th out of 14 in Budget/resources. That was better than I thought it might be.
 

DAG10

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That was an interesting read. Thank for sharing.

Seems weird that the coaches in the BIG would rate IU as having the 4th best recruiting area and PU is 10th. They are only a couple hours away from each other. they literally share the same recruiting area. I think some of the coaches must have misunderstood the question. We were 5th out of 14 in Budget/resources. That was better than I thought it might be.
Not sure of the real merit...first, for the reason that you cited, and, also because some value different things or consider different things.

A$$ Hall pretty much sucks from the standpoint of watching a game, and, there is very little more appealing about Gloomington rather than West Lafayette.

History...advantage Indinia, but, it is largely ancient history, and, Purdue has itself to blame as much as anyone for failures ala last year in that regard.

Before NIL, Purdue had more than enough reasons to be able to be/do better...it failed to do so unfortunately...on the floor, and, off.
 
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boilerball2021

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Like say, that person indeed does not like (or appreciate) him then...

I mean, if we are just throwing out names of people that we wish coached at/for Purdue. so be it, but, not sure what that accomplishes...in this discussion or any for that matter.
Yes, the person was listing coaches that are currently coaching that they would rather have. At first they thought it would be easy to name 25+. They only got to 12 before they realized they were being dumb. It’s part of the convo, because it proves Painter is a top 15 coach.
 

boilerball2021

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I am not sure that it is a lack of confidence in the replacement as much as in Purdue in hiring said replacement.

I am guessing the replacement comes from the tree that you had alluded to, and, if so, then I do not have great confidence.

If someone else comes in without ties to Purdue and does manage to have high level success, he may leave...that is another scenario.

Again...with things as they are...I don't even know that it matters...without the ability to land national-level or elite recruits, I don't think it matters who is coaching there...even Stevens had a couple of elite-caliber guys at Butler.
Who is the Painter coaching tree coach you think could replace him?
 

FirstDownB

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Purdue isn't going to be plucking its next head coach from a pool of guys with top 15 credentials. It doesn't have that luxury. Very few programs do.

But guys like Brad Stevens, Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo.. somebody had to give them a chance. Somebody had to identify the potential for greatness and buy in at the ground floor. But for every one of them there are multiple busts. See IU.

It feels like this argument is between people who have grown comfortable with Purdue basketball versus those who have grown bored with Purdue basketball. Like some are managing the Purdue basketball 401k, while others are ready to gamble the net worth in a game of blackjack.

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am...
 

boilerball2021

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That was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

Seems weird that the coaches in the BIG would rate IU as having the 4th best recruiting area and PU is 10th. They are only a couple hours away from each other. they literally share the same recruiting area. I think some of the coaches must have misunderstood the question. We were 5th out of 14 in Budget/resources. That was better than I thought it might be.
I believe that was explained in the article right? IU is the main flagship university in the state, so they have that advantage over Purdue for recruits in the same territory. So even though they are the same territory, IU has the advantage for landing the recruits in that recruiting territory.
 

boilerball2021

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Purdue isn't going to be plucking its next head coach from a pool of guys with top 15 credentials. It doesn't have that luxury. Very few programs do.

But guys like Brad Stevens, Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo.. somebody had to give them a chance. Somebody had to identify the potential for greatness and buy in at the ground floor. But for every one of them there are multiple busts. See IU.

It feels like this argument is between people who have grown comfortable with Purdue basketball versus those who have grown bored with Purdue basketball. Like some are managing the Purdue basketball 401k, while others are ready to gamble the net worth in a game of blackjack.

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am...
So where do you fall?

I fall in the category that realizes how close Painter has been to getting to the promised land, and would not gamble on a new coach being better.
 
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bonefish1

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Given that you’ve been on this account since 2004 and allegedly had one before, I’m guessing you are old enough that you will never see another coach.
Ha, I'm not that long in the tooth..... But, unless Painter plans on being at Purdue for 50 years, I'll probably see a few more coaches.
 
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bonefish1

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Yes, the person was listing coaches that are currently coaching that they would rather have. At first they thought it would be easy to name 25+. They only got to 12 before they realized they were being dumb. It’s part of the convo, because it proves Painter is a top 15 coach.
Do you think if Painter put the word out that he was in the market for a change, would any of the following hire him:
UK, Duke, UNC, Lvile, MSU, UCLA, Nova, Kansas, Arizona, Gonzaga, Syracuse,
 

boilerball2021

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Do you think if Painter put the word out that he was in the market for a change, would any of the following hire him:
UK, Duke, UNC, Lvile, MSU, UCLA, Nova, Kansas, Arizona, Gonzaga, Syracuse,
I believe all of those schools would gladly hire Painter except UK, UNC, or Duke.
 

bonefish1

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I believe all of those schools would gladly hire Painter except UK, UNC, or Duke.
I disagree. I think they'd look at Painter and say "solid X/Os coach, runs a clean program, respected in the coaching circles, but not a great recruiter and not a strong tourney coach."
 

boilerball2021

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I disagree. I think they'd look at Painter and say "solid X/Os coach, runs a clean program, respected in the coaching circles, but not a great recruiter and not a strong tourney coach."
So picture yourself as a UNC or Duke fan… you are telling me when their jobs came open you would rather have John Scheyer or Hubert Davis than Matt Painter? Neither had any proven recruiting success or tournament success.
 

DAG10

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So picture yourself as a UNC or Duke fan… you are telling me when their jobs came open you would rather have John Scheyer or Hubert Davis than Matt Painter? Neither had any proven recruiting success or tournament success.
By their standards, neither has Painter.
 

bonefish1

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So picture yourself as a UNC or Duke fan… you are telling me when their jobs came open you would rather have John Scheyer or Hubert Davis than Matt Painter? Neither had any proven recruiting success or tournament success.
No, I didn't say that. But, I think with the expectations at Duke and UNC (consistently making deep tourney runs and getting to FF and NCs with some regularity) Painter might not have fit the profile of what they were looking for. As DAG has said, Painter is a known commodity. Do you think that if Coach K thought Painter was the better option for Duke, he would have recommended Painter?
 

DAG10

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So where do you fall?

I fall in the category that realizes how close Painter has been to getting to the promised land, and would not gamble on a new coach being better.
I am closer to where you fall than not, but, I don't feel like he has been as close as you might believe or suggest.

He had a couple of really good chances though...Hummel injury certainly worked against him, and, who knows what success may have followed for Purdue had he managed to reach promised land.

He blew a couple of other chances...Haas' injury may have kept him from a FF though.

This year was a blown golden opportunity.

I have no idea if a new coach would be better...no way for anyone to know. Like say, right now, I don't think he can get Purdue there with things as they stand...he has not thus far, and, he could not even round out the roster for this season that he desperately needed to...just lost one of the most talented recruits that he had secured a commitment from (and, is now chasing once again in recruiting).

Like say, had Hummel not been injured (either time), it would have been nice to see what happened...as that group might have made a FF, if not two...and, that may have changed Painter's and Purdue's fortune moving forward had it happened. At the same time, he underachieved with a couple of other really good/great teams, and, that garners attention as well. That, and that he has not been able to generate any sustained success either with guys good enough to be NBA talent, or, developing them into such.
 
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boilerball2021

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No, I didn't say that. But, I think with the expectations at Duke and UNC (consistently making deep tourney runs and getting to FF and NCs with some regularity) Painter might not have fit the profile of what they were looking for. As DAG has said, Painter is a known commodity. Do you think that if Coach K thought Painter was the better option for Duke, he would have recommended Painter?
Painter is a known commodity at Purdue with Purdue’s resources.

No, I think Coach K would have still chosen Scheyer whom he coached and groomed. Same way Painter will choose someone he has coached and groomed.
 

DAG10

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Yet he has won the Big Ten 3 times. Are you saying you would have been fine as a fan with those 2 when they got the job?
And should have won it probably 6...so what?

What does he have to show for those 3 Big Ten titles?

John Scheyer and Hubert Davis ARE Matt Painter...except both actually were on the staff at the school for an extended period before they got their jobs as HC. The scenarios, however, are the exact same. Painter was far more of an unknown than either of those guys are/were.
 

boilerball2021

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I am closer to where you fall than not, but, I don't feel like he has been as close as you might believe or suggest.

He had a couple of really good chances though...Hummel injury certainly worked against him, and, who knows what success may have followed for Purdue had he managed to reach promised land.

He blew a couple of other chances...Haas' injury may have kept him from a FF though.

This year was a blown golden opportunity.

I have no idea if a new coach would be better...no way for anyone to know. Like say, right now, I don't think he can get Purdue there with things as they stand...he has not thus far, and, he could not even round out the roster for this season that he desperately needed to...just lost one of the most talented recruits that he had secured a commitment from (and, is now chasing once again in recruiting).

Like say, had Hummel not been injured (either time), it would have been nice to see what happened...as that group might have made a FF, if not two...and, that may have changed Painter's and Purdue's fortune moving forward had it happened. At the same time, he underachieved with a couple of other really good/great teams, and, that garners attention as well. That, and that he has not been able to generate any sustained success either with guys good enough to be NBA talent, or, developing them into such.
He was a defensive rebound away from the Final 4 and that team they were playing went on to win the championship. How is a defensive rebound away from the final 4 not close?
 

boilerball2021

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And should have won it probably 6...so what?

What does he have to show for those 3 Big Ten titles?

John Scheyer and Hubert Davis ARE Matt Painter...except both actually were on the staff at the school for an extended period before they got their jobs as HC. The scenarios, however, are the exact same. Painter was far more of an unknown than either of those guys are/were.
You can’t say he should have won 6. That’s ridiculous. You could make the same argument for a number of other teams through the years.

How are Scheyer or Davis more known than Painter was? Prior to coming to Purdue as coach in waiting, Painter had a conference championship at Southern Illinois. That’s more success than Scheyer or Davis could show. Neither had any head coaching experience.
 

New Pal Boiler

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I disagree. I think they'd look at Painter and say "solid X/Os coach, runs a clean program, respected in the coaching circles, but not a great recruiter and not a strong tourney coach."
Painter would clean up recruiting at Duke or UNC. Unless he cracked down on the sleazy/underhanded tactics.
 

purduepat1969

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So you don’t think Purdue should have used their size advantage? Did you watch us against the same level teams in preseason when that strategy lead to all blow outs? Edey is the most efficient player in the country.
Edey struggled passing out of the post when double and triple teamed. We saw that all year. We shouldn't have been surprised by that. Painter waited to long to bring Tre in the game and the when he did, he tried to play high post ball with him instead of using his size and passing ability. It was a terrible game plan. If you can't see that, you're really looking thru rose colored glasses...
 

boilerball2021

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Edey struggled passing out of the post when double and triple teamed. We saw that all year. We shouldn't have been surprised by that. Painter waited to long to bring Tre in the game and the when he did, he tried to play high post ball with him instead of using his size and passing ability. It was a terrible game plan. If you can't see that, you're really looking thru rose colored glasses...
Im sure it had absolutely nothing to do with Ivey playing out of control and turning the ball over. So Painter clearly sucks as a coach. I’m guessing you think Calipari sucks too since he also lost to the 15 seed? Except he had far more talent.
 

BoilerDeac

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Painter is who he is, and Purdue will be what it is for however long Painter is here.

Expect 20 win seasons and tournament appearances. Expect people (other coaches and members of the media) to praise Painter and say nice things about him.

But don't expect Purdue to be taken seriously, on a national level, so long as Painter remains the head coach at Purdue.
 
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purduepat1969

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Im sure it had absolutely nothing to do with Ivey playing out of control and turning the ball over. So Painter clearly sucks as a coach. I’m guessing you think Calipari sucks too since he also lost to the 15 seed? Except he had far more talent.
Calipari had nowhere close to the quality depth Purdue had. Goodness gracious. So it's OK to lose to St Petes because UK did?

And once again, it was all Ivey's fault. You're insufferable with your excuses for Painters game planning. Blaming the players for f'ing up a horrific game plan is pathetic.. There's a lot of blame that can go Painters way for what happened in the past 2 tournaments.

You're just having trouble with any criticism that comes his way. Everytime someone criticizes, the first thing you come back with is who that person could find that's better than Painter...