CMP Salary Increases? Should Be a Final 4 Bonus...

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
You think it's because of location? The rolling hills of Bloomington and hanging with the hippies in Dunn meadow?
It’s all part of it. You are claiming recruiting is solely on the coach, and I’m trying to tell you there are many factors that go into it that are outside the coaches control. Location, History, Facilities, Exposure.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
It has very little, virtually nothing.
Since we won’t ever agree on this, how about you name the coaches that are better than Painter that would come here with a budget of $3.5 million. You said you could do it, and now you keep ignoring the question.
 

mathboy

All-American
Feb 4, 2004
10,575
10,413
113
Michigan
Location is such a small factor, it's not even in the equation. The other things you mention: coaching, style, exposure, facilities, etc, are 99% of the decision. Location and night life have nothing to do with the decision of a big time athlete.
Does location help or hurt schools like MSU, ND, UK, IL, Cuse, OSU?
Why doesn't Miami dominate in Bball and Fball since, well, it's Miami? Who wouldn't want to go there? Same for UCLA or St. Johns or hell, what about Northwestern?
Wash, rinse, recycle. Same arguments from you every summer. I’ve seen you harp on this same overly simplistic theme every off season all the way back to when you used the “Lenny” handle.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
It’s all part of it. You are claiming recruiting is solely on the coach, and I’m trying to tell you there are many factors that go into it that are outside the coaches control. Location, History, Facilities, Exposure.
I agree there are numerous factors, but first and foremost, it's the coach. While the other factors are part of the equation, location is very far down that list, so much so that it's insignificant.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
Wash, rinse, recycle. Same arguments from you every summer. I’ve seen you harp on this same overly simplistic theme every off season all the way back to when you used the “Lenny” handle.
Yeh, every summer I have to keep putting the same morons in their place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mathboy

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
I agree there are numerous factors, but first and foremost, it's the coach. While the other factors are part of the equation, location is very far down that list, so much so that it's insignificant.
Why isn’t Rick Pitino recruiting as well at Iona as he did at UK and Louisville?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mathboy

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
Since we won’t ever agree on this, how about you name the coaches that are better than Painter that would come here with a budget of $3.5 million. You said you could do it, and now you keep ignoring the question.
How do you know the budget is 3.5? Why not 5? Why not 7?
If Purdue were serious about becoming a consistent FF and NC team and finding the coach to do so, Mbob might have to dig deeper into the checkbook. He did it for Brohm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
How do you know the budget is 3.5? Why not 5? Why not 7?
If Purdue were serious about becoming a consistent FF and NC team and finding the coach to do so, Mbob might have to dig deeper into the checkbook. He did it for Brohm.
Because that’s what Painter is getting paid. I’ll throw you a bone and make it $4 million budget. Brohm is only paid what he is because he holds the AD hostage after every season.

So now you have a $4 million dollar budget. That would be the 11th highest paid coach in the country.

Who are you getting that would be an upgrade to Matt Painter?
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
Why isn’t Rick Pitino recruiting as well at Iona as he did at UK and Louisville?
Seriously? Because nobody knows who Iona is. No top 100 players are going to consider Iona. They don't play on TV. They're not a P5 conf team. The competition is weak.

Do you think Pitino would get better recruits to Purdue that Painter?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10 and WLPU1989

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
Because that’s what Painter is getting paid. I’ll throw you a bone and make it $4 million budget. Brohm is only paid what he is because he holds the AD hostage after every season.

So now you have a $4 million dollar budget. That would be the 11th highest paid coach in the country.

Who are you getting that would be an upgrade to Matt Painter?
So, you're going to go try to get a big name coach who is a proven recruiter and maybe has tourney success and you're going to say "We believe in you so much to get us to the FF and NC that we'll pay you 15% higher than our last coach."
Nope, aint happening.
But, if you want a name, go after Scott Drew at Baylor. He only makes $3.5. Won a NC. Throw $5M and start the negotiating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10 and WLPU1989

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
Seriously? Because nobody knows who Iona is. No top 100 players are going to consider Iona. They don't play on TV. They're not a P5 conf team. The competition is weak.

Do you think Pitino would get better recruits to Purdue that Painter?
I don’t think we would magically start getting 5 star players consistently.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Because that’s what Painter is getting paid. I’ll throw you a bone and make it $4 million budget. Brohm is only paid what he is because he holds the AD hostage after every season.

So now you have a $4 million dollar budget. That would be the 11th highest paid coach in the country.

Who are you getting that would be an upgrade to Matt Painter?
Brohm is not paid what he is because of holding Purdue hostage...he is paid what he is because that is what his value is to Purdue, and, given what has happened aside of him since Tiller left, he is worth every penny of it.

Why does the budget you suggest have to be what Painter is getting paid? Painter could make more money other places, and, Purdue could pay him more money than they are...just as they could (and may even would) for his successor or replacement.

There are known coaches that would be an upgrade....there are unknown ones as well.

All a moot point...first, because Painter is not going anywhere (unless he chooses to do so, which is unlikely), and, with NIL now, the job is even less appealing than it might have been when it was not even the most desirable of jobs.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
So, you're going to go try to get a big name coach who is a proven recruiter and maybe has tourney success and you're going to say "We believe in you so much to get us to the FF and NC that we'll pay you 15% higher than our last coach."
Nope, aint happening.
But, if you want a name, go after Scott Drew at Baylor. He only makes $3.5. Won a NC. Throw $5M and start the negotiating.
Lol so many things wrong with this.

1. Baylor would just match and he would stay.

2. Purdue doesn’t have the budget for a $5 million coach.

3. Scott Drew would never be allowed to come here. It wouldn’t go over very well at all, because he isn’t well liked by the basketball community in Indiana.

So now that Scott Drew is off the table, who ya got next?
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
Well, first and foremost, because it is Iona and not UK or Louisville...and, even at that, he has recruited better at Iona than the average coach simply because he is Rick Pitino.
This Bonefish guy says it’s mainly the coach and that location, school, etc don’t really have anything to do with it.

Do you want to join in on the potential coaching fun?

$4 million budget. Who you getting that’s an upgrade to Matt Painter?
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
Brohm is not paid what he is because of holding Purdue hostage...he is paid what he is because that is what his value is to Purdue, and, given what has happened aside of him since Tiller left, he is worth every penny of it.

Why does the budget you suggest have to be what Painter is getting paid? Painter could make more money other places, and, Purdue could pay him more money than they are...just as they could (and may even would) for his successor or replacement.

There are known coaches that would be an upgrade....there are unknown ones as well.

All a moot point...first, because Painter is not going anywhere (unless he chooses to do so, which is unlikely), and, with NIL now, the job is even less appealing than it might have been when it was not even the most desirable of jobs.
Brohm’s raises have been directly related to holding the AD hostage in 3 of his 5 off seasons.

Painter could get more other places and at Purdue. He could have his agent do what Brohm’s does and float his name for jobs and force Purdue to pay him more. He did this as a last resort with Missouri.

You are correct that NIL has so far made Purdue a less attractive destination for both coaches and recruits. We can change that with the new collective. Donate early and often.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
I don’t think we would magically start getting 5 star players consistently.
That wasn't the question.
But, I'm just curious...Why not?

Purdue is in a great conference. on TV all the time, has one of the best arenas and home courts in all of college basketball, the fans love hoops, good/very good facilities, name recognition, 1 hr to Indy/2 hrs to Chicago.
Purdue's got a lot to sell.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Lol so many things wrong with this.

1. Baylor would just match and he would stay.

2. Purdue doesn’t have the budget for a $5 million coach.

3. Scott Drew would never be allowed to come here. It wouldn’t go over very well at all, because he isn’t well liked by the basketball community in Indiana.

So now that Scott Drew is off the table, who ya got next?
How do you know that Baylor would match? How do you know that he would stay if they did?

Purdue absolutely has the budget for it, and, more so with the ridiculous contract about to be put in place for television rights.

What do you mean he would never be "allowed" to come here? By who? And, who in the world is "the basketball community in Indiana?"

Scott Drew is only "off the table" because you came up with some lame exclusion of him...Bonefish gave you a name...a realistic one...and, you dismissed it with made-up reasons of your own.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
Lol so many things wrong with this.

1. Baylor would just match and he would stay.

2. Purdue doesn’t have the budget for a $5 million coach.

3. Scott Drew would never be allowed to come here. It wouldn’t go over very well at all, because he isn’t well liked by the basketball community in Indiana.

So now that Scott Drew is off the table, who ya got next?
You sound like you have some insider information. Did you talk to the Baylor AD?
How do you know what Purdue's budget is? Did you discuss and confirm with MBob?
Who doesn't like Scott Drew?
The guy can recruit and coach. That's all that matters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
That wasn't the question.
But, I'm just curious...Why not?

Purdue is in a great conference. on TV all the time, has one of the best arenas and home courts in all of college basketball, the fans love hoops, good/very good facilities, name recognition, 1 hr to Indy/2 hrs to Chicago.
Purdue's got a lot to sell.
1. We aren’t the flagship school in our state.
2. We don’t have the championship tradition the schools around us do.
3. Other schools have better facilities.
4. We haven’t proven to be very good with providing NIL to players (this will jump to the top of most recruitments moving forward).
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
This Bonefish guy says it’s mainly the coach and that location, school, etc don’t really have anything to do with it.

Do you want to join in on the potential coaching fun?

$4 million budget. Who you getting that’s an upgrade to Matt Painter?
I didn't say school, I said location. That's 2 different things.
Put Wright, Self, Coach K, Pitino, Izzo or Calipari at Purdue and recruiting would be much different.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Brohm’s raises have been directly related to holding the AD hostage in 3 of his 5 off seasons.

Painter could get more other places and at Purdue. He could have his agent do what Brohm’s does and float his name for jobs and force Purdue to pay him more. He did this as a last resort with Missouri.

You are correct that NIL has so far made Purdue a less attractive destination for both coaches and recruits. We can change that with the new collective. Donate early and often.
He has not held anyone hostage as you suggest, never mind 3 times...and, it is not him or his agent floating his name.

Ala Painter, he has the chance (and it is basically open-ended) to return to his alma mater and be the HC...what is wrong with that, and, how is that his fault? Odds are, at some point, it happens...but, to act as though he has not been anything short of pretty much a savior at Purdue is ridiculous.

Painter is not in it for the money...nor is Brohm for that matter.

The new collective is not changing anything at/for Purdue, regardless of how much you, I or anyone else here donates, or, how regularly it were to happen.
 

FirstDownB

All-American
Oct 12, 2015
9,728
13,792
113
Name the coaches with more tournament wins over the last 16 years.
Just guessing, haven't counted...

Coach K
Bill Self
Roy Williams
John Calapari
Tom Izzo
Jay Wright
Jim Boeheim
Rick Pitino
Billy Donovan
Thad Matta
Mark Few
Sean Miller
John Beilein
Scott Drew

Dana Altman?
Rick Barnes?
Bob Huggins?
Bruce Pearl?

The parameters of the question exclude some successful programs/coaches over the last 16 years due to head coaching changes during the time period:

UCLA (Howland/Alford/Cronin)
UConn (Calhoun/Ollie/Hurley)
Wisconsin (Ryan/Gard)
Butler (Stevens/Holtman)
Xavier (Miller/Mack)

I don't have a dog in the fight but saw the question multiple times, so..
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10 and bonefish1

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,456
13,482
113
1. We aren’t the flagship school in our state.
2. We don’t have the championship tradition the schools around us do.
3. Other schools have better facilities.
4. We haven’t proven to be very good with providing NIL to players (this will jump to the top of most recruitments moving forward).
Neither is Michigan State or Duke. Both compete against a state big brother.
Tradition is built, not given.
Purdue's facilities may not be the best in the nation, but they're pretty darn good. And....Mackey Arena is one of the Top 3-5 best college basketball environments on game day.
The NIL is too new to assess as it's likely to change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
1. We aren’t the flagship school in our state.
2. We don’t have the championship tradition the schools around us do.
3. Other schools have better facilities.
4. We haven’t proven to be very good with providing NIL to players (this will jump to the top of most recruitments moving forward).
1. Yet, the more successful program for some time now...

2. That is in part because of the failures of the HC

3. Whose fault is that?

4. See 3 above
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
How do you know that Baylor would match? How do you know that he would stay if they did?

Purdue absolutely has the budget for it, and, more so with the ridiculous contract about to be put in place for television rights.

What do you mean he would never be "allowed" to come here? By who? And, who in the world is "the basketball community in Indiana?"

Scott Drew is only "off the table" because you came up with some lame exclusion of him...Bonefish gave you a name...a realistic one...and, you dismissed it with made-up reasons of your own.
He is established and just won a championship there. They have deeper pockets than we do. They are a better location.

Scott Drew is hated amongst Indiana High School coaches. You will get that reputation when you threaten to get a Indiana High school basketball player deported if he doesn’t commit to your school.

Scott Drew is not a realistic candidate. Look at the type of coaches the top tier programs have been able to get in recent years:

UCLA - Mid major coach
IU - NBA Assistant
Louisville - NBA Assistant
Duke - College Assistant with no head coaching experience
UNC - College Assistant with no head coaching experience
Villanova - Low major Coach

Recently, only Texas has managed to get a coach with any sort of NCAA success (Chris Beard) and that’s only because he was returning to his Alma Mater.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
You sound like you have some insider information. Did you talk to the Baylor AD?
How do you know what Purdue's budget is? Did you discuss and confirm with MBob?
Who doesn't like Scott Drew?
The guy can recruit and coach. That's all that matters.
Have you done any of those things? No? Okay.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
Neither is Michigan State or Duke. Both compete against a state big brother.
Tradition is built, not given.
Purdue's facilities may not be the best in the nation, but they're pretty darn good. And....Mackey Arena is one of the Top 3-5 best college basketball environments on game day.
The NIL is too new to assess as it's likely to change.
Duke and MSU have championship traditions. We do not. I agree that tradition is built. That’s why we will never be a destination for great coaches until we build the tradition. Duke and Coach K were nothing prior to him winning there.
 

bear_down_chicago_89

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 25, 2017
33,945
52,216
113
He is established and just won a championship there. They have deeper pockets than we do. They are a better location.

Scott Drew is hated amongst Indiana High School coaches. You will get that reputation when you threaten to get a Indiana High school basketball player deported if he doesn’t commit to your school.

Scott Drew is not a realistic candidate. Look at the type of coaches the top tier programs have been able to get in recent years:

UCLA - Mid major coach
IU - NBA Assistant
Louisville - NBA Assistant
Duke - College Assistant with no head coaching experience
UNC - College Assistant with no head coaching experience
Villanova - Low major Coach

Recently, only Texas has managed to get a coach with any sort of NCAA success (Chris Beard) and that’s only because he was returning to his Alma Mater.
It’s also worth noting that both the IU and Louisville NBA assistants were alums.

Whenever Painter does leave, it’s most likely the next coach will be from his coaching tree and quite possibly a Purdue alum.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
1. Yet, the more successful program for some time now...

2. That is in part because of the failures of the HC

3. Whose fault is that?

4. See 3 above
1. We are historically not the most successful program in the state and that’s what matters. That’s why they have a bigger following than we do.

2. That’s debatable. Did you hate Gene Keady too?

3. The AD’s and boosters.

4. if you haven’t contributed to the Boilermaker Alliance yet, then you are part of the problem here. Donate early and often.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Just guessing, haven't counted...

Coach K
Bill Self
Roy Williams
John Calapari
Tom Izzo
Jay Wright
Jim Boeheim
Rick Pitino
Billy Donovan
Thad Matta
Mark Few
Sean Miller
John Beilein
Scott Drew

Dana Altman?
Rick Barnes?
Bob Huggins?
Bruce Pearl?

The parameters of the question exclude some successful programs/coaches over the last 16 years due to head coaching changes during the time period:

UCLA (Howland/Alford/Cronin)
UConn (Calhoun/Ollie/Hurley)
Wisconsin (Ryan/Gard)
Butler (Stevens/Holtman)
Xavier (Miller/Mack)

I don't have a dog in the fight but saw the question multiple times, so..
Hubert Davis has one year of HC experience and won 5 NCAA tournament games...my guess is that in 16 years, he will exceed the 17 wins Painter has managed...and, he was as unknown a commodity as there was when he took over at UNC.

Shaheen Holloway (in part thanks to Matt) won 4 games this past year at St. Peter's...in fact, he advanced as far in the tournament as Painter has managed to do so in 16 years.

I am not anti-Painter in any way, and, I am thankful for and appreciative of what he has done in large part, but, the notion that he has been some tremendous coach on a national scale is a bit misleading, particularly when it comes to the NCAA tournament (where it is very misleading).
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
It’s also worth noting that both the IU and Louisville NBA assistants were alums.

Whenever Painter does leave, it’s most likely the next coach will be from his coaching tree and quite possibly a Purdue alum.
I completely agree. Hiring away proven coaches just doesn’t happen anymore. And when it does, it’s to a big name school.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
Hubert Davis has one year of HC experience and won 5 NCAA tournament games...my guess is that in 16 years, he will exceed the 17 wins Painter has managed...and, he was as unknown a commodity as there was when he took over at UNC.

Shaheen Holloway (in part thanks to Matt) won 4 games this past year at St. Peter's...in fact, he advanced as far in the tournament as Painter has managed to do so in 16 years.

I am not anti-Painter in any way, and, I am thankful for and appreciative of what he has done in large part, but, the notion that he has been some tremendous coach on a national scale is a bit misleading, particularly when it comes to the NCAA tournament (where it is very misleading).
Hubert Davis coaches a Blue Blood. That’s been our point the whole time. There are huge advantages to coaching at a place like that over what Painter has at Purdue.

I would put a significant amount of money on Holloway not having as many tournament wins over the next 16 years as Painter has had in the last 16 years. He has Shaka Smart written all over him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mathboy

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
1. We are historically not the most successful program in the state and that’s what matters. That’s why they have a bigger following than we do.

2. That’s debatable. Did you hate Gene Keady too?

3. The AD’s and boosters.

4. if you haven’t contributed to the Boilermaker Alliance yet, then you are part of the problem here. Donate early and often.
1. No it is not what matters...and, the size of the following is irrelevant as well. Purdue has failed to have success on the national level, in part because of who their coach was/is, and, because it has not invested to the scale of others...THAT is what matters far, far more.

2. Almost everything is debatable.

3. Let's be fair...it is primarily an AD, and, it is far less about boosters than it is the former AD.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Hubert Davis coaches a Blue Blood. That’s been our point the whole time. There are huge advantages to coaching at a place like that over what Painter has at Purdue.

I would put a significant amount of money on Holloway not having as many tournament wins over the next 16 years as Painter has had in the last 16 years. He has Shaka Smart written all over him.
I would be careful about citing Shaka when you consider his Head-to-Head record vs Painter, never mind the obvious in that he managed to reach a FF already...at anything but a Blue Blood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bonefish1

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
1. No it is not what matters...and, the size of the following is irrelevant as well. Purdue has failed to have success on the national level, in part because of who their coach was/is, and, because it has not invested to the scale of others...THAT is what matters far, far more.

2. Almost everything is debatable.

3. Let's be fair...it is primarily an AD, and, it is far less about boosters than it is the former AD.
1. You don’t think IU’s championship history helps them recruit? The size of the fanbase doesnt matter to recruits?

3. Who do you think pays for facilities? The AD? The Boosters? Have you donated to JPC?

4. I think you accidentally left this one off. Have you donated to the Boiler Alliance?
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
I would be careful about citing Shaka when you consider his Head-to-Head record vs Painter, never mind the obvious in that he managed to reach a FF already...at anything but a Blue Blood.
Head to Head records are meaningless. Painter is better head to head against guys that you consider better like Hubert Davis and Jay Wright.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,492
113
Hubert Davis coaches a Blue Blood. That’s been our point the whole time. There are huge advantages to coaching at a place like that over what Painter has at Purdue.

I would put a significant amount of money on Holloway not having as many tournament wins over the next 16 years as Painter has had in the last 16 years. He has Shaka Smart written all over him.
No, that has not been the point at any point really...but, there are advantages certainly, I will agree with you on that. But, there are things that Painter does not have or did not have that he should regardless of Purdue not being a Blue Blood.

I have no idea what Holloway will do...and, I was wrong in saying that he has 4 wins as he only had 3...although, 2 of the 3 wins that he had are/were better than any that Painter has had in the tournament, and, the irrefutable point is that he has advanced as far in the NCAA tournament...at St. Peter's...as Matt has at Purdue.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
No, that has not been the point at any point really...but, there are advantages certainly, I will agree with you on that. But, there are things that Painter does not have or did not have that he should regardless of Purdue not being a Blue Blood.

I have no idea what Holloway will do...and, I was wrong in saying that he has 4 wins as he only had 3...although, 2 of the 3 wins that he had are/were better than any that Painter has had in the tournament, and, the irrefutable point is that he has advanced as far in the NCAA tournament...at St. Peter's...as Matt has at Purdue.
That has been the point. Matt Painter is at a disadvantage at Purdue that the coaches he is being compared to don’t have.

Cinderella runs happen all the time in the tournament. Very rarely does it lead to more tournament success for those coaches.