Case for a three seed

[PrintersRowBoiler]

if we win out. It won't happen, it never happens. But how about these factors;

- 2 non-conference losses to top 4 RPI teams in close games + a neutral court win vs a top 5 ACC team
- outright champions of fourth best conference
- top 12 rating in Three major computer polls - BPI, Kenpom, sagarin

Why not?

 

[boilerpete1]

Well. Come tomorrow we will be a 5

 

[cprh9u]

No. Wisky losing today only solidifies how crappy the B1G is. Us winning it is just as much about lack of good teams as it is anything we did. At least that is the way most of America will look at it, especially considering our lackluster play lately.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

No. Wisky losing today only solidifies how crappy the B1G is. Us winning it is just as much about lack of good teams as it is anything we did. At least that is the way most of America will look at it, especially considering our lackluster play lately.

That is such an uneducated comment. Big ten is statistically the 4th best conference - Fact. All but one team is in the top 100 RPI, no conference can claim that not even the ACC. Big ten has more parity than any other conference and with the challenges of winning in the road even the best teams will fall to their lower peers on a regular basis in the road. Wiskys loss takes nothing from the B10.

 

[cprh9u]

That is such an uneducated comment. Big ten is statistically the 4th best conference - Fact. All but one team is in the top 100 RPI, no conference can claim that not even the ACC. Big ten has more parity than any other conference and with the challenges of winning in the road even the best teams will fall to their lower peers on a regular basis in the road. Wisky's loss takes nothing from the B10.

Top 5 teams in RPI by major conferences:

Big 12- #1 Kansas, #8 Baylor, #26 West Virginia, #27 OK St, #37 IA St
ACC- #3 UNC, #4 UL, #12 FSU, #14 Duke, #19 VA
Big East- #2 Nova, #10 Butler, #21 Xavier, #24 Creighton, #49 Seton Hall
Big Ten- #16 Minny, #20 Purdue, #28 Wisky, #29 Maryland, #45 Michigan
Pac 12- #5 Oregon, #9 Zona, #15 UCLA, #33 USC, #52 Cal
SEC- #6 Florida, #7 UK, #30 SC, #31 Arkansas, #48 Vandy

Fact- every major conference has 2 top 10 RPI teams but the B1G, who doesn't even have a top 15 team. Nobody cares about the bottom feeders, but since you want to compare the B1G and ACC, the average RPI ranking of every ACC team is 53.9, 9 full points ahead of every B1G team's average of 62.9. The top 5 ACC teams average 10.4 (higher than any single B1G team). The top 5 of the B1G average an awesome 27.6, the worst of any conference listed here.

The B1G is weak. Both of the "top" teams losing this week hurt and make it look even worse as we will all see on selection Sunday. But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

So we are not as good as the ACC this year? That made us weak? We have dominated them over the last decade and you want to take a snapshot in time and we are weak.

Big ten has the fourth highest RPI as a conference. Top 3 teams do not define a conference.

 

[boilerzz]

Top 5 teams in RPI by major conferences:

Big 12- #1 Kansas, #8 Baylor, #26 West Virginia, #27 OK St, #37 IA St
ACC- #3 UNC, #4 UL, #12 FSU, #14 Duke, #19 VA
Big East- #2 Nova, #10 Butler, #21 Xavier, #24 Creighton, #49 Seton Hall
Big Ten- #16 Minny, #20 Purdue, #28 Wisky, #29 Maryland, #45 Michigan
Pac 12- #5 Oregon, #9 Zona, #15 UCLA, #33 USC, #52 Cal
SEC- #6 Florida, #7 UK, #30 SC, #31 Arkansas, #48 Vandy

Fact- every major conference has 2 top 10 RPI teams but the B1G, who doesn't even have a top 15 team. Nobody cares about the bottom feeders, but since you want to compare the B1G and ACC, the average RPI ranking of every ACC team is 53.9, 9 full points ahead of every B1G team's average of 62.9. The top 5 ACC teams average 10.4 (higher than any single B1G team). The top 5 of the B1G average an awesome 27.6, the worst of any conference listed here.

The B1G is weak. Both of the "top" teams losing this week hurt and make it look even worse as we will all see on selection Sunday. But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

You do realize saying the Big Ten is weak isn't the same as saying the top of the Big Ten is weak? Why are you just including top 5? Let's do an average of all teams in a conference. Oh wait, that's what KenPom does with efficiencies. And his numbers:

Big 12 +19.20
ACC +17.29
Big East +14.77
Big Ten +13.79
SEC +12.29
Pac 12 +9.75
AAC +6.60

So, the B1G AS A WHOLE is 4th and it's closer to 3rd than 5th.

That doesn't mean the Big Ten deserves high seeds. But it also doesn't deserve as much criticism as it gets IMO.

 

[BoilerStation]

The Big is certainly taking a beating perception wise but I don't think there is a team in the country who could have joined our conference this year and finished with 3 losses or less. Ok maybe 3 losses. Sure there are plenty of teams that could win the Big 10 but they wouldn't go unbeaten this year and would absolutely lose a couple of games. With that being said I think we have zero shot at a 3 seed now. There just aren't enough top end teams ranked high enough to improve our perception to get in over schools from other major conferences ranked right around us.

 

[cprh9u]

You do realize saying the Big Ten is weak isn't the same as saying the top of the Big Ten is weak? Why are you just including top 5? Let's do an average of all teams in a conference. Oh wait, that's what KenPom does with efficiencies. And his numbers:

Big 12 +19.20
ACC +17.29
Big East +14.77
Big Ten +13.79
SEC +12.29
Pac 12 +9.75
AAC +6.60

So, the B1G AS A WHOLE is 4th and it's closer to 3rd than 5th.

That doesn't mean the Big Ten deserves high seeds. But it also doesn't deserve as much criticism as it gets IMO.

The B1G definitely doesn't deserve high seeds, which is the whole point in my comment "Wisky losing today only solidifies how crappy the B1G is. Us winning it is just as much about lack of good teams as it is anything we did. At least that is the way most of America will look at it".

I was rooting for Wisky. It would be great to say we beat a legitimate top tier team. With Wisky and Maryland unraveling, our best win based on the RPI (which is evidently important to the committee) is #23 RPI ranked Notre Dame. That's why I'm focused on the top 5. Every conference has a pretty solid grouping... the B1G does not. Our wins don't look very impressive, especially wins over top 25 RPI teams.

Just bad timing. I'm thrilled to win another B1G championship, Painter's 2nd. It's too bad it isn't in a strong year where we can get a 1 or 2 seed and instead will be a 4 or 5 (even 3 is very likely certainly out of reach). Regardless, we have to win the game that is scheduled, so all is certainly not lost. Let's see what Painter can get out of this team.

 

[BoiledSteel]

So we are not as good as the ACC this year? That made us weak? We have dominated them over the last decade and you want to take a snapshot in time and we are weak.

Big ten has the fourth highest RPI as a conference. Top 3 teams do not define a conference.

That is what the haters do. They take only partial evidence to try and support their disdain of Painter and Purdue and think that no one else looks this stuff up. They'd make perfect politicians.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Just bad timing. I'm thrilled to win another B1G championship, Painter's 2nd. It's too bad it isn't in a strong year

This is such a poor cop out. The B1G isn't strong by your perception, that's it.

It really is too bad that you are so caught up in your agenda to hate Painter that you can't truly enjoy another B1G should we win it.

I guarantee though that if we somehow don't get it or do poorly, by your "standards" anyway, in the NCAAT you will be the first one on here mocking Painter and the team calling for him to be fired. You are the worse kind of fan, you're a temperamental bandwagonner and only support Purdue when it suits you.

 

[lbodel]

This is such a poor cop out. The B1G isn't strong by your perception, that's it.

It really is too bad that you are so caught up in your agenda to hate Painter that you can't truly enjoy another B1G should we win it.

I guarantee though that if we somehow don't get it or do poorly, by your "standards" anyway, in the NCAAT you will be the first one on here mocking Painter and the team calling for him to be fired. You are the worse kind of fan, you're a temperamental bandwagonner and only support Purdue when it suits you.

Exactly. Has this been some amazing season filled with huge wins, top 10 match-ups, etc? No. But my goodness, we have a very good shot at winning the Big Ten and that should never be a "disappointment". If you can't have fun in that, I don't know what to tell you.

A month ago, people on this board were whining about our start and how there goes any shot at being in the hunt for the Big Ten championship. Look around at college basketball - it's not what it used to be. The Big Ten is weaker at the top than it usually is, but there's also hardly any dominant teams. There's 4 teams in the Top 25 in Week 16 that have 5 losses. Three years ago, there was 1 (and it was Kansas).

There's no teams out there that don't have issues and haven't struggled. Villanova lost to an unranked Marquette team and barely beat a horrible DePaul team at home.

But the point is if you can't enjoy it, then I'd suggest stepping away and taking a break. I've been very unhappy with the football program - a lot sooner than most people came around to it with our last couple coaches. But I also had sound reasoning for it. When you're complaining about things and your coach when you're in the hunt to win a conference championship though? That's really pushing it.

 

[BoilerJS]

Top 5 teams in RPI by major conferences:

Big 12- #1 Kansas, #8 Baylor, #26 West Virginia, #27 OK St, #37 IA St
ACC- #3 UNC, #4 UL, #12 FSU, #14 Duke, #19 VA
Big East- #2 Nova, #10 Butler, #21 Xavier, #24 Creighton, #49 Seton Hall
Big Ten- #16 Minny, #20 Purdue, #28 Wisky, #29 Maryland, #45 Michigan
Pac 12- #5 Oregon, #9 Zona, #15 UCLA, #33 USC, #52 Cal
SEC- #6 Florida, #7 UK, #30 SC, #31 Arkansas, #48 Vandy

Fact- every major conference has 2 top 10 RPI teams but the B1G, who doesn't even have a top 15 team. Nobody cares about the bottom feeders, but since you want to compare the B1G and ACC, the average RPI ranking of every ACC team is 53.9, 9 full points ahead of every B1G team's average of 62.9. The top 5 ACC teams average 10.4 (higher than any single B1G team). The top 5 of the B1G average an awesome 27.6, the worst of any conference listed here.

The B1G is weak. Both of the "top" teams losing this week hurt and make it look even worse as we will all see on selection Sunday. But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Well putting things in perspective the 10th place team in the BIG beat the 1st place team in both the ACC and Big 12. Sooooooo.
And don't play the injury thing because IU lost against Neb, Michigan, Wisconsin, NW and Maryland before any injuries.

 

[cprh9u]

Well putting things in perspective the 10th place team in the BIG beat the 1st place team in both the ACC and Big 12. Sooooooo.
And don't play the injury thing because IU lost against Neb, Michigan, Wisconsin, NW and Maryland before any injuries.

At the end of the day we will see how the selection committee rewards the B1G winner who is ranked in the 15-25 range and has a 1-3 or so (depending on how things finish) record against the top 25 RPI. If we are going to have a 4 or 5 seed, does Painter have what it takes to lead us past his S16 ceiling that he reached twice with the baby boilers? We will know soon enough.

 

[*4purdue*]

Well. Come tomorrow we will be a 5

And Duke lost twice this week and will remain a 3

 

[BoiledSteel]

At the end of the day we will see how the selection committee rewards the B1G winner.

Which is essentially all opinion based and won't really tell us anything. I use 4purdue's comment as evidence of that.

The B1G has always been frowned on because most of the announcers/etc are from non-B1G schools so there is a legitimate bias against the conference. The deck will probably be stacked against all B1G teams in the NCAAT and it will be telling once we see how all the teams that get in fair.

 

[FirstDownB]

That is such an uneducated comment. Big ten is statistically the 4th best conference - Fact. All but one team is in the top 100 RPI, no conference can claim that not even the ACC. Big ten has more parity than any other conference and with the challenges of winning in the road even the best teams will fall to their lower peers on a regular basis in the road. Wiskys loss takes nothing from the B10.

Well putting things in perspective the 10th place team in the BIG beat the 1st place team in both the ACC and Big 12. Sooooooo.
And don't play the injury thing because IU lost against Neb, Michigan, Wisconsin, NW and Maryland before any injuries.

Looking at just the top teams in each conference or any slice other than the entire conference is cherry picking to fit an argument. One could make the argument that it is just as difficult to go 14-4 in the Big Ten as the Big East or SEC because teams 6-13 are solid you have to bring it each and every game.

Look at Gonzaga, who just lost their first game to RPI #71 BYU. They had beaten RPI 5, 9, 19 (twice), 37, 55, and 62. Then they lose to #71. You would have thought they would lose to #5 or #9, not #71. But the more good teams you play the more opportunities there are for defeat if you don't play well.