Blame Game

[hamcoboiler]

Everyone deserves their share of it on this...

Starting 5 - How many Hall of Fame coaches would change a starting lineup when leading their conference having won 9 of 10? Don't overthink it Coach. Cline can still play more minutes. Players get in a rhythm and Painter changes it in a critical game on the road?

Matchups - Of Michigan's 5 starters, the one with the second highest 3P% was Wagner. Wagner is also the most active screener in the ball screen. Painter throws Haas & Swanigan at him? If there was matchup perfect for Edwards this was it. Swanigan would have been better on Wilson. How did the coaching staff think this would go well?

Offense - Someone on Purdue's staff needs to do a PPP breakdown when Haas & Swanigan set at least one screen vs. just stand on the block and demand the ball. They are too easy to defend when the ball is passed around the perimeter hoping our bigs can establish position. Either get those guys screening in the flow of the offense or call a few sets to get them screening.

Effort - Nobody played with any for the first 30 minutes. That's on the players.

 

[boilerjrut3]

Everyone deserves their share of it on this...

Starting 5 - How many Hall of Fame coaches would change a starting lineup when leading their conference having won 9 of 10? Don't overthink it Coach. Cline can still play more minutes. Players get in a rhythm and Painter changes it in a critical game on the road?

Matchups - Of Michigan's 5 starters, the one with the second highest 3P% was Wagner. Wagner is also the most active screener in the ball screen. Painter throws Haas & Swanigan at him? If there was matchup perfect for Edwards this was it. Swanigan would have been better on Wilson. How did the coaching staff think this would go well?

Offense - Someone on Purdue's staff needs to do a PPP breakdown when Haas & Swanigan set at least one screen vs. just stand on the block and demand the ball. They are too easy to defend when the ball is passed around the perimeter hoping our bigs can establish position. Either get those guys screening in the flow of the offense or call a few sets to get them screening.

Effort - Nobody played with any for the first 30 minutes. That's on the players.

Hard to argue with the defense of Wagner. To be fair, that guy wasn't missing anything today. Coach has to teach Haas and Swanigan more than being a body down low tho. I played against soccer dummies that put up more defense than them most of the time.

 

[tjreese]

Everyone deserves their share of it on this...

Starting 5 - How many Hall of Fame coaches would change a starting lineup when leading their conference having won 9 of 10? Don't overthink it Coach. Cline can still play more minutes. Players get in a rhythm and Painter changes it in a critical game on the road?

Matchups - Of Michigan's 5 starters, the one with the second highest 3P% was Wagner. Wagner is also the most active screener in the ball screen. Painter throws Haas & Swanigan at him? If there was matchup perfect for Edwards this was it. Swanigan would have been better on Wilson. How did the coaching staff think this would go well?

Offense - Someone on Purdue's staff needs to do a PPP breakdown when Haas & Swanigan set at least one screen vs. just stand on the block and demand the ball. They are too easy to defend when the ball is passed around the perimeter hoping our bigs can establish position. Either get those guys screening in the flow of the offense or call a few sets to get them screening.

Effort - Nobody played with any for the first 30 minutes. That's on the players.

I like a lot of that...particularly this..."Matchups - Of Michigan's 5 starters, the one with the second highest 3P% was Wagner. Wagner is also the most active screener in the ball screen. Painter throws Haas & Swanigan at him? If there was matchup perfect for Edwards this was it. Swanigan would have been better on Wilson. How did the coaching staff think this would go well?"

I thought about that early in the first half and wanted Edwards on him adn then realized I have not seen hundreds of hours on the kid and had no idea if what I was seeing was typical or not. I think he averages 12 pts. What I also wondered...and this is because I don't know anything about the Wilson kid was "whoever" Biggie was guarding...THAT player would float out more...which would only be effective if both are capable (not as good as today) of being a threat. Perhaps coach B had that plan? If both were not capable then Edwards not being on Wagner was a mistake today and probably a mistake in approach...again , not knowing their players. If I had too though...MY emphasis would be to take Swanigan outside if I had two players that could play there...whoever Matt put Swanigan on...

 

[nagemj02]

Hard to argue with the defense of Wagner. To be fair, that guy wasn't missing anything today. Coach has to teach Haas and Swanigan more than being a body down low tho. I played against soccer dummies that put up more defense than them most of the time.

Maybe but he could have just kept VE on Wagner as much as possible. He's a better matchup guarding out on the perimeter in the man D than Swanigan and especially Haas. That's not a hindsight conclusion. That's something that was identifiable before the game.

Michigan probably would have won a close one anyway, but I think some different coaching adjustments (matchups in the 1st half, more PT for CE in the 1st half, start pressing about 2-4 minutes earlier than they did in the 2nd half) could have kept this game closer going into halftime and down the stretch.

Good for Purdue in cutting it to 73-67 late, but Walton's 3PT with 1 on the shot-clock was the official back-breaker in this one.

 

[*4purdue*]

Maybe but he could have just kept VE on Wagner as much as possible. He's a better matchup guarding out on the perimeter in the man D than Swanigan and especially Haas. That's not a hindsight conclusion. That's something that was identifiable before the game.

Michigan probably would have won a close one anyway, but I think some different coaching adjustments (matchups in the 1st half, more PT for CE in the 1st half, start pressing about 2-4 minutes earlier than they did in the 2nd half) could have kept this game closer going into halftime and down the stretch.

Good for Purdue in cutting it to 73-67 late, but Walton's 3PT with 1 on the shot-clock was the official back-breaker in this one.

I don't understand how CMP doesn't see what everyone else does. We are getting torched by Wagner and to not switch VE on him til the half, is just baffling.

 

[gelesen]

2 of UM's three's were desperation shots that went in and we missed plenty of shots within 2 feet of the basket. Those things amount to 10-14 points. It was just one of those games. As for Carsen, he still scored 18 points and played his average minutes.

 

[tjreese]

I don't understand how CMP doesn't see what everyone else does. We are getting torched by Wagner and to not switch VE on him til the half, is just baffling.

Oh I can...lot more going on in a coaches mind than a myopic view many of us have and without the background of hours of tape and seeing practice. That said I have said many times that I liked Vince on Wagner. I have also said that if I'm coach B and have two players with length, that can shoot from the perimeter (if that is the case) I just simply work the perimeter with whatever player biggie is guarding. Put biggie on Wilson and Wilson comes out...on Wagner and he comes out...if Wilson is a threat...and Wagner probably shot much better than usual. Let's see what happens if they play in the btt.
Ya can't make the other coach play his players the way you want them to play damnit...

 

[heytherehoodoo]

2 of UM's three's were desperation shots that went in and we missed plenty of shots within 2 feet of the basket. Those things amount to 10-14 points. It was just one of those games. As for Carsen, he still scored 18 points and played his average minutes.

How do you explain the struggles in the previous game against PSU? Yes, they won but this does not excuse the struggles that were in that game that showed up today.

 

[PistolPt]

Just spent the whole week on the road. Outside of Connecticut woman's basketball team maybe, lot of teams struggle no matter what time of year!

 

[PistolPt]

Just spent the whole week on the road. Outside of Connecticut woman's basketball team maybe, lot of teams struggle no matter what time of year!

On the road that is!

 

[Lambo134269]

Everyone deserves their share of it on this...

Starting 5 - How many Hall of Fame coaches would change a starting lineup when leading their conference having won 9 of 10? Don't overthink it Coach. Cline can still play more minutes. Players get in a rhythm and Painter changes it in a critical game on the road?

Matchups - Of Michigan's 5 starters, the one with the second highest 3P% was Wagner. Wagner is also the most active screener in the ball screen. Painter throws Haas & Swanigan at him? If there was matchup perfect for Edwards this was it. Swanigan would have been better on Wilson. How did the coaching staff think this would go well?

Offense - Someone on Purdue's staff needs to do a PPP breakdown when Haas & Swanigan set at least one screen vs. just stand on the block and demand the ball. They are too easy to defend when the ball is passed around the perimeter hoping our bigs can establish position. Either get those guys screening in the flow of the offense or call a few sets to get them screening.

Effort - Nobody played with any for the first 30 minutes. That's on the players.

I love it when you wannabe coaches think you know more than our coaches. If it's so easy you should give it a try. All of the public schools are looking for help at the middle school level, before you know it you can be winning state titles!!

 

[depthcharge623]

Wagner's performance yesterday reminded me a lot of RayDay's game against MSU at home last year. Came out in the first half and just did not miss. Then when Sparty made some adjustments he cooled off some in the second half. Actually, the entire game seems pretty similar except the other way around and it was closer in that one.

 

[hamcoboiler]

I love it when you wannabe coaches think you know more than our coaches. If it's so easy you should give it a try. All of the public schools are looking for help at the middle school level, before you know it you can be winning state titles!!

what are you here for then the recipes?

there has been plenty of good to talk about this year but yesterday was bad. by your standard we can't even comment when the coaches do well since we are wanna be coaches.

 

[hamcoboiler]

I don't understand how CMP doesn't see what everyone else does. We are getting torched by Wagner and to not switch VE on him til the half, is just baffling.

the same thing happned against villanova. Hart absolutely destroyed Vince, then late in the game they put Mathias on him and he slowed down.

if there is one thing that seems to be consistent with Painter it is his unwillingness to depart from the game plan. he had it in his head that Haas and Swanigan could check Wagner. Purdue had to be down by 17 before he made a change.

Lambo this is your cue to remind us we are wanna be coaches.

 

[tjreese]

I love it when you wannabe coaches think you know more than our coaches. If it's so easy you should give it a try. All of the public schools are looking for help at the middle school level, before you know it you can be winning state titles!!

I know what you are saying and there is a hell of a lot of truth in what you said. Another thing coaching does is let you know that others may have no idea of anything going on and still have opinions...opinions are like a$$holes in that everyone has them. By the same token this is a public forum and opinions on basektball like much of life may not be informed, but still add to the give and take. Sometimes those not clouded by experience can see things not focused on through habits and I have no issue being challenged as to my thoughts..which may or may not be correct, but generally some substance to them. I have no issue with questions and difference of opinions, but the real reason behind what you wrote and what happens is that if Purdue loses...it is Matt's fault and you know it not to be the case...or rarely the case.

Purdue is far from where it was since the budget increase, but still behind many Big schools in actual talent and athleticism. Look what one player Biggie did for Purdue and yet MSU has Bridges as well along with some other talent. Now Michigan could play Purdue in the BTT and the same potential problems will exist, but the outcome may be different due to execution efficiency...but the potential for a L will still be there.

People on this forum want Purdue to do well because they are fans...and I'm with them. The coaches and players worked hard to prepare and execute yesterday and it is they that were in the arena and paid the price adn it is they that I have a lot of respect. Knowing where you are going...and fully understanding I'm reminded of that great quote from Teddy ...THE MAN IN THE ARENA
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

The players are tempted by human nature and as fans we fall to the same temptations of the mental demons that play inside of us

 

[Dryfly88]

Here we go again with the "you're not a coach so you can't criticize anything CMP or his staff does". Exactly how many current or former D1 coaches do we have on here? That's right, zero. If I'm wrong then please identify yourself so we can recognize you.

If you don't like what someone posts, then please argue the merits of their position or opinion. It is weak to simply dismiss someone because "they aren't a coach". Guess what? You aren't either.

 

[tjreese]

Here we go again with the "you're not a coach so you can't criticize anything CMP or his staff does". Exactly how many current or former D1 coaches do we have on here? That's right, zero. If I'm wrong then please identify yourself so we can recognize you.

If you don't like what someone posts, then please argue the merits of their position or opinion. It is weak to simply dismiss someone because "they aren't a coach". Guess what? You aren't either.

The easy out is to blame the coach (you and I know that), but I am of 100% agreement with you that stating "WHY" you hold the positions you do for BOTH sides is helpful...and many times it is much deeper than the obvious. Still, this is a forum and it should be expected that disagreement will be common. What "could" be good in a forum is actual learning...and that comes from stating "WHY" you hold the positions you do...and none of this is to dismiss that a person that doesn't or even can't support his or her position is wrong, just not able to justify in the paradigms held by others to make it stick. Like you desire, it is great when someone provides some background on their stance past the visual obvious...THAT adds so much. I was concerned about Michigan's bigs facing the basket for a couple of days and what that could do to Purdue with hope that Haas could flip it...and yet I was ignorant (admitted it) of the skills of the Michigan bigs since I was so limited in my viewing to "what the camera" showed me with limited minutes...others in the forum were also concerned due to seeing them and added thoughts for consideration. All on this site, well most...are fans adn want Purdue to do well. When the result doesn't meet the desire, the incompatibility results in frustration that is shared in this medium and then others counter that as well. Most posts would be different if posted a week or two after a game adn so what does that tell us?

 

[PUBV]

Here we go again with the "you're not a coach so you can't criticize anything CMP or his staff does". Exactly how many current or former D1 coaches do we have on here? That's right, zero. If I'm wrong then please identify yourself so we can recognize you.

If you don't like what someone posts, then please argue the merits of their position or opinion. It is weak to simply dismiss someone because "they aren't a coach". Guess what? You aren't either.

Exactly, I took a month off from posting but apparently my "mental demons" have brought me back. I seem to have forgotten the golden rules of don't question the style, approach, or decision making of the staff lest the board coaches step out and layeth the smacketh down upon you. Surprisingly, it's only when we lose that we don't have the resources, talent and athleticism of the rest of the Big Ten. This reminds me of a quote from Georgie,
99% of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses. And no I
don't think we will win every game, but do enjoy the discussion.

 

[tjreese]

Exactly, I took a month off from posting but apparently my "mental demons" have brought me back. I seem to have forgotten the golden rules of don't question the style, approach, or decision making of the staff lest the board coaches step out and layeth the smacketh down upon you. Surprisingly, it's only when we lose that we don't have the resources, talent and athleticism of the rest of the Big Ten. This reminds me of a quote from Georgie,
99% of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses. And no I
don't think we will win every game, but do enjoy the discussion.

you obviously didn't understand "The players are tempted by human nature and as fans we fall to the same temptations of the mental demons that play inside of us."

Becasue if you did you would notice that "players" were included in that. The mental demons are the battles we as humans face relative to comfort and such, pointing blame as you state is one battle...battles in our minds...alll tied to the 4:1 mental reference in basketball. Who would work if all their needs were met? Players get comfortable, coaches get comfortable and fans never ever got uncomfortable other than when the results do nto meet the expectations. Do you really think Purdue played 100% as hard as every player could? NO, but neither do most teams. This game is physical and mental...mental in shooting, executing, playing with the team plan with the physical elements. Could he have got that board? What if the player was a step closer in help? why was the trigger man allowed a look underneath teh basket? Why didn't I maek an effort to get the board instead of hoping another would? Both coaches have that part of the game that each player wakes up every day with a slightly different outlook or focus than the day before...all mental. Not to bring in coaching, but my guess is that if asked of others they would say...finding teh right buttons for all the difference in teh mental outlook of players is the hardest part. Now, obviously there is a physical part that is huge as well AND the interaction between the physical and the mental for each player on both teams and how they play that tug of war by pulling in the same direction at the same time. Do you go to work every day wiht the same work ethic? If married does your approach in that relationship change due to moods or other problems? What about your children...same thing. yeah, we all have mental demons, but I had no idea that someone would take it personal

 

[PUBV]

you obviously didn't understand "The players are tempted by human nature and as fans we fall to the same temptations of the mental demons that play inside of us."

Becasue if you did you would notice that "players" were included in that. The mental demons are the battles we as humans face relative to comfort and such, pointing blame as you state is one battle...battles in our minds...alll tied to the 4:1 mental reference in basketball. Who would work if all their needs were met? Players get comfortable, coaches get comfortable and fans never ever got uncomfortable other than when the results do nto meet the expectations. Do you really think Purdue played 100% as hard as every player could? NO, but neither do most teams. This game is physical and mental...mental in shooting, executing, playing with the team plan with the physical elements. Could he have got that board? What if the player was a step closer in help? why was the trigger man allowed a look underneath teh basket? Why didn't I maek an effort to get the board instead of hoping another would? Both coaches have that part of the game that each player wakes up every day with a slightly different outlook or focus than the day before...all mental. Not to bring in coaching, but my guess is that if asked of others they would say...finding teh right buttons for all the difference in teh mental outlook of players is the hardest part. Now, obviously there is a physical part that is huge as well AND the interaction between the physical and the mental for each player on both teams and how they play that tug of war by pulling in the same direction at the same time. Do you go to work every day wiht the same work ethic? If married does your approach in that relationship change due to moods or other problems? What about your children...same thing. yeah, we all have mental demons, but I had no idea that someone would take it personal

Oh, c'mon, I didn't take your mental demons Zenmaster coaching statements personal, I actually thought them to be kinda silly. I think your trying to make coaching into a much more cerebral occupation than it really is. In the scenarios you give above, I picture a bunch of old greybearded men in robes standing around the court pondering their next move! "Shall I expend the energy to pursue that rebound, or save my life force which will be needed later when I am splitting the atom." If he's got all these thought processes flowing through his mind, is player A happy or sad, girl problems, didn't get a good breakfast, thinking about video games, etc..,maybe that's why it takes coach so long to change assignments when a guy like Wagner is burying us (I kid!) Did
I misunderstand when you said we didn't have the resources, talent, or athleticism to
match other teams in the Big Ten? Maybe we are winning on pure mental dominance and deep thought control. Hopefully this serves us well in the tourney
Oh crap, forgot my quote: The more you overthink, the less you understand

 

[Dryfly88]

The easy out is to blame the coach (you and I know that), but I am of 100% agreement with you that stating "WHY" you hold the positions you do for BOTH sides is helpful...and many times it is much deeper than the obvious. Still, this is a forum and it should be expected that disagreement will be common. What "could" be good in a forum is actual learning...and that comes from stating "WHY" you hold the positions you do...and none of this is to dismiss that a person that doesn't or even can't support his or her position is wrong, just not able to justify in the paradigms held by others to make it stick. Like you desire, it is great when someone provides some background on their stance past the visual obvious...THAT adds so much. I was concerned about Michigan's bigs facing the basket for a couple of days and what that could do to Purdue with hope that Haas could flip it...and yet I was ignorant (admitted it) of the skills of the Michigan bigs since I was so limited in my viewing to "what the camera" showed me with limited minutes...others in the forum were also concerned due to seeing them and added thoughts for consideration. All on this site, well most...are fans adn want Purdue to do well. When the result doesn't meet the desire, the incompatibility results in frustration that is shared in this medium and then others counter that as well. Most posts would be different if posted a week or two after a game adn so what does that tell us?

I don't really care whether the posters on here blame the coach, the players or themselves. Whether blaming the coach is the easy out or not really doesn't bother me. What I get so tired of is the lame qualifier that if you aren't a coach you can't have the opinion you have. That is the only point I'm making. You can give a 1,000 word explanation or someone can give a 2 sentence one, I'm okay with both. The point is neither have to be a coach to give their opinion. If I don't agree with a take someone has I can either ignore it or engage them in a discussion. But at no point does the fact that they aren't a D1 coach have anything to do with it. None of us are so I don't know why some keep trying to use that as a qualifier. If that is to be the standard then this is going to be the most quiet message board on the web.

 

[Do Dah Day]

what are you here for then the recipes?

there has been plenty of good to talk about this year but yesterday was bad. by your standard we can't even comment when the coaches do well since we are wanna be coaches.

I think his comment is valid in that there are many, many opps for someone who can handle the skillet to coach. I coached AAU for 22 years. I assure you, whatever you think you know about coaching, until you sit on that bench for a few years, not one or two because you can luck into a great group of players for a couple of years, then you really can't suggest anything that will be valid with those who have sat on the bench.

Juggling the psyches of 19 year olds is tough as a parent, try it as a coach.

 

[Dryfly88]

I think his comment is valid in that there are many, many opps for someone who can handle the skillet to coach. I coached AAU for 22 years. I assure you, whatever you think you know about coaching, until you sit on that bench for a few years, not one or two because you can luck into a great group of players for a couple of years, then you really can't suggest anything that will be valid with those who have sat on the bench.

Juggling the psyches of 19 year olds is tough as a parent, try it as a coach.

I'm sure the vast majority of people on here have played or coached at some level (not D1). I don't think each one needs to post their resume in order to have an opinion. Why does this coaching "qualifier" only come up when someone questions CMP or one of his decisions? Does that mean that if I agree with everything he does I don't need to be a coach to comment?

I generally like CMP and have said so many times on here. But I'll be damned if I need to be a coach in order to question anything he does. That is a ridiculous standard to "impose" by fellow posters. If you want just coaches commenting after games then find a coaches message board to participate in.

I like most of your takes on things and your insight on PU basketball, but I think you've missed the mark on this one.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I love it when you wannabe coaches think you know more than our coaches. If it's so easy you should give it a try. All of the public schools are looking for help at the middle school level, before you know it you can be winning state titles!!

Hi there!! This is Gene Keady!

Can I proffer a constructive criticism on the game plan yesterday? Or am I prohibited from doing so because I'm no longer coaching?

All the best,
Gene the Wannabe

 

[tjreese]

Oh, c'mon, I didn't take your mental demons Zenmaster coaching statements personal, I actually thought them to be kinda silly. I think your trying to make coaching into a much more cerebral occupation than it really is. In the scenarios you give above, I picture a bunch of old greybearded men in robes standing around the court pondering their next move! "Shall I expend the energy to pursue that rebound, or save my life force which will be needed later when I am splitting the atom." If he's got all these thought processes flowing through his mind, is player A happy or sad, girl problems, didn't get a good breakfast, thinking about video games, etc..,maybe that's why it takes coach so long to change assignments when a guy like Wagner is burying us (I kid!) Did
I misunderstand when you said we didn't have the resources, talent, or athleticism to
match other teams in the Big Ten? Maybe we are winning on pure mental dominance and deep thought control. Hopefully this serves us well in the tourney
Oh crap, forgot my quote: The more you overthink, the less you understand

AGain, you missed it...players and coaches are human. Basketball is physical and mental. Humans are not robots...no matter what a coach does...the players can be in a different mindset...THAT was the point. It is not just the players, but you and I do it as well. Teh players can play as hard as possible adn someone thinks Johnny needs to contribute more and so Johnny works hard...tries to help, but his thought was to look for his shot more...and now he is a second late in the pass...and that set is blown...not becasue he wasn't focused or plahying hard...just trying to help when it wasn't jiving with how the team was playing. Do you think Michigan played their average game? Do you think the physical part changed? Once the Game was over Coach B said it was great that the players were playing off of each other and they didn't need as many timeouts. He was no different of a coach after the game than before, but found THAT game where all the players were in the groove...everything going smoothly. Believe me...there is no place for PC in my world. Do you really think that the mental has no place in sports? None of this is to baby anyone, just to say that human nature tends to take the easy way out...

Teh game is a little more difficult than just rolling the ball out on the court...

 

[tjreese]

I don't really care whether the posters on here blame the coach, the players or themselves. Whether blaming the coach is the easy out or not really doesn't bother me. What I get so tired of is the lame qualifier that if you aren't a coach you can't have the opinion you have. That is the only point I'm making. You can give a 1,000 word explanation or someone can give a 2 sentence one, I'm okay with both. The point is neither have to be a coach to give their opinion. If I don't agree with a take someone has I can either ignore it or engage them in a discussion. But at no point does the fact that they aren't a D1 coach have anything to do with it. None of us are so I don't know why some keep trying to use that as a qualifier. If that is to be the standard then this is going to be the most quiet message board on the web.

Fully understand, but wouldn't a D2 coach have merit? What about a NAIA..high school? None of those experiences mean they are always right, but all of those give them an informed opinion and even if informed...they could be wrong. I get it. A comment without substance is ...without substance. I try to read everyone's thoughts and more often than not, think there is merit is what they say, but I'm here to tell you "some" show a lack of being in the arena or working with players. THAT is not many, but some. I find an agreement a lot with some that I figure have never tried to teach the game and there are two that have coached that I agree a lot with.

Still, just because I agree doesn't make me right or wrong...and I understand that. I would much rather just discuss the game, fundamentals of the game...but that is not what generates posts. Those thoughts are MIA. This forum is open for all opinions...even ones misguided due to just being on the Internet where thoughts many times are not expressed the best.

 

[Dryfly88]

Fully understand, but wouldn't a D2 coach have merit? What about a NAIA..high school? None of those experiences mean they are always right, but all of those give them an informed opinion and even if informed...they could be wrong. I get it. A comment without substance is ...without substance. I try to read everyone's thoughts and more often than not, think there is merit is what they say, but I'm here to tell you "some" show a lack of being in the arena or working with players. THAT is not many, but some. I find an agreement a lot with some that I figure have never tried to teach the game and there are two that have coached that I agree a lot with.

Still, just because I agree doesn't make me right or wrong...and I understand that. I would much rather just discuss the game, fundamentals of the game...but that is not what generates posts. Those thoughts are MIA. This forum is open for all opinions...even ones misguided due to just being on the Internet where thoughts many times are not expressed the best.

Like I said in a post above, I'm pretty sure the majority on here have played and or coached at some level so I don't know why anyone cares. My oldest son played HS and AAU ball as well as D1 baseball so I have been around a lot of coaches and done some coaching myself. There are good ones and bad ones at all levels. Again, I don't see what being a coach has anything to do with posting on a message board.

As I said earlier: Show me a time where someone was agreeing/defending CMP and that person was challenged to defend their position by posting their coaching resume? It doesn't happen. The only time this comes up is when someone doesn't like the coach or team being questioned or criticized and just like clockwork here comes the "you're not a coach". I just think that's a weak and lazy way to avoid actually talking about the topic.

 

[tjreese]

Like I said in a post above, I'm pretty sure the majority on here have played and or coached at some level so I don't know why anyone cares. My oldest son played HS and AAU ball as well as D1 baseball so I have been around a lot of coaches and done some coaching myself. There are good ones and bad ones at all levels. Again, I don't see what being a coach has anything to do with posting on a message board.

As I said earlier: Show me a time where someone was agreeing/defending CMP and that person was challenged to defend their position by posting their coaching resume? It doesn't happen. The only time this comes up is when someone doesn't like the coach or team being questioned or criticized and just like clockwork here comes the "you're not a coach". I just think that's a weak and lazy way to avoid actually talking about the topic.

Again, I know where you are coming from. I want the substance and as I have said...I try to think about anyone that takes the time to write something...especially with some attempt at stubstance. There is another forum that I participated on long before this and tried hard to not quiet the conversation.
One of the things I have done in my industrial life was to work with other companies and to trouble-shoot quality issues in general. I always know that when I visit a company they know more about that commodity than I do...and I share that with them. I then tell them that in my ignorance I may ask something that makes them think and that sometimes a different angle leads to an answer. The measuring stick I use is some form of statistics...with a lean to fractional factorials and it just tells you what is going on even if you don't fully understand it. I absolutely have no issue being asked anything I write and being expected to defend it...and the same should go for us all. Maybe an eye will open to something we previously thought we fully understood. Instead we get snarky comments many times due to our frustration either in an initial post or a response to a post. I expect I could enjoy a drink with everyone on this forum...

 

[Do Dah Day]

I'm sure the vast majority of people on here have played or coached at some level (not D1). I don't think each one needs to post their resume in order to have an opinion. Why does this coaching "qualifier" only come up when someone questions CMP or one of his decisions? Does that mean that if I agree with everything he does I don't need to be a coach to comment?

I generally like CMP and have said so many times on here. But I'll be damned if I need to be a coach in order to question anything he does. That is a ridiculous standard to "impose" by fellow posters. If you want just coaches commenting after games then find a coaches message board to participate in.

I like most of your takes on things and your insight on PU basketball, but I think you've missed the mark on this one.

All it means is that there are things going on in a coaches mind that have to do with players personas and with future events that don't necessarily coincide with "in the moment" decisions. If you don't agree that the mental processing that goes on in a coaches mind who has sat on the bench for years vs someone who has not, then so be it. I too respect your posts, but whatever you do 40 hours per week causes you to process information differently that I would. None of us are qualified to suggest alternatives to a heart surgeon, to a firefighter, to an Army Lieutenant ... experience in the heat of battle cannot be replicated.

Plus, the key in my post is working with the psyches of 8 or 10 or 12 19 year olds ... the psyche when it comes to competitive athletics ...

 

[Dryfly88]

All it means is that there are things going on in a coaches mind that have to do with players personas and with future events that don't necessarily coincide with "in the moment" decisions. If you don't agree that the mental processing that goes on in a coaches mind who has sat on the bench for years vs someone who has not, then so be it. I too respect your posts, but whatever you do 40 hours per week causes you to process information differently that I would. None of us are qualified to suggest alternatives to a heart surgeon, to a firefighter, to an Army Lieutenant ... experience in the heat of battle cannot be replicated.

Plus, the key in my post is working with the psyches of 8 or 10 or 12 19 year olds ... the psyche when it comes to competitive athletics ...

Heart Surgeon?? I have to admit that made me smile when I read that comparison!!

 

[Do Dah Day]

Heart Surgeon?? I have to admit that made me smile when I read that comparison!!

well, the pay is about the same ...

 

[Do Dah Day]

Heart Surgeon?? I have to admit that made me smile when I read that comparison!!

I can list the times I've looked into a player eyes and "known" he was not going to do well ... or that he was .... or the time I replaced a slow-footed player who had hit two straight threes with a really quick, and historically good, player who immediately got the ball stolen and missed two straight threes. ANd listened to parents rant all the way out to the parking lot. Those are incidents that have a lasting affect.

 

[Dryfly88]

I hear ya. I have witnessed many "parent coaches" over the years, it's not pretty.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Hi there!! This is Gene Keady!

Can I proffer a constructive criticism on the game plan yesterday? Or am I prohibited from doing so because I'm no longer coaching?

All the best,
Gene the Wannabe

You are prohibited from doing so because you were caught yawning in the stands yesterday, so you obviously weren't paying attention.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Just keep in mind that this entire qualifier of having coaching experience to opine is totally due to not agreeing with the OP. Had everyone agreed with them, then your opinion would be welcome in what ever capacity you have. Much like, if we win, Painter did a marvelous job coaching. However, when we lose......he did nothing wrong and it's all on the players on the court.

 

[galoot]

I thought Painter's post-game comments were great. He actually discussed why Cline started as well as fielded a question about leaving Biggie on Wagner. Solid reasons all of the way around. Just did not work out in the Boiler's favor this time.

If you haven't taken the time to watch it, you can find a link on jconline.com to the comments. Not sure if that was different from the regular post-game presser.

I would much rather have lost this one than either of the next two. Hopefully this serves as a wake-up call going into the tourney and keeps them hungry the rest of this years ride.

 

[PUBV]

AGain, you missed it...players and coaches are human. Basketball is physical and mental. Humans are not robots...no matter what a coach does...the players can be in a different mindset...THAT was the point. It is not just the players, but you and I do it as well. Teh players can play as hard as possible adn someone thinks Johnny needs to contribute more and so Johnny works hard...tries to help, but his thought was to look for his shot more...and now he is a second late in the pass...and that set is blown...not becasue he wasn't focused or plahying hard...just trying to help when it wasn't jiving with how the team was playing. Do you think Michigan played their average game? Do you think the physical part changed? Once the Game was over Coach B said it was great that the players were playing off of each other and they didn't need as many timeouts. He was no different of a coach after the game than before, but found THAT game where all the players were in the groove...everything going smoothly. Believe me...there is no place for PC in my world. Do you really think that the mental has no place in sports? None of this is to baby anyone, just to say that human nature tends to take the easy way out...

Teh game is a little more difficult than just rolling the ball out on the court...

Would you be happy if I told you that you've opened my eyes, that I never realized that players & coaches aren't robots and that the GAME of basketball has so much more going on to it mentally than I ever could have imagined? I promise to never again grimace when someone refers to a coach as a genius, no matter what GAME he coaches. I guess when watching my next basketball GAME, I'll be more in tune to the complexities going through each players mind at any specific second, although I think that will make the GAME a little less enjoyable! Oh, still no comment on our lack of resources, talent, & athleticism?

 

[TC4THREE]

You don't have to be a coach but there are clearly people in this thread that don't understand basketball and it's not hard to see for those of us who do.

 

[boiler-deuce]

You don't have to be a coach but there are clearly people in this thread that don't understand basketball and it's not hard to see for those of us who do.

Perception is reality.

 

[tjreese]

Would you be happy if I told you that you've opened my eyes, that I never realized that players & coaches aren't robots and that the GAME of basketball has so much more going on to it mentally than I ever could have imagined? I promise to never again grimace when someone refers to a coach as a genius, no matter what GAME he coaches. I guess when watching my next basketball GAME, I'll be more in tune to the complexities going through each players mind at any specific second, although I think that will make the GAME a little less enjoyable! Oh, still no comment on our lack of resources, talent, & athleticism?

Still missed it, but that is okay. Sometimes players are more tuned in than other times...and coaches don't know that. Enjoy watching your game