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Big Ten Player of the Year- 2 Man Race

IMSKRONG said:
Well if you want to know when Indiana wasn't ranked in the preseason... Try 14 out of the past 20 seasons.
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Not correct.
Here is the list of years and IU's ranking in the preseason AP polls. You can look them up on espn.com

2022 13th; 2021 27th; 2020 30th; 2019 unranked; 2018 28th; 2017 unranked; 2016 11th; 2015 15th; 2014 unranked; 2013 28th.

These are the last 10 preseason polls. IU was ranked in 7 of the 10. If you read my post you will see: "I am sure that it may have happened at some point, but without looking it up I am fairly confident that IU was listed in the AP voting in most of the recent past years' preseason voting." 7 out of 10 certainly fits that description.

You seem to think that only in the Top 25 counts as a ranking. That is not true. If it was, then there would be no need for the AP to publish those other votes. The fact that they do means that a ranking has occurred based upon voting and those votes were published.

Your statement is incorrect because mathematically if they were not ranked in 14 of the past 20 then they would only be ranked in 6. It is demonstrated that they were ranked in 7 of the past 10.
 
arcb102000 said:
Not correct.
Here is the list of years and IU's ranking in the preseason AP polls. You can look them up on espn.com

2022 13th; 2021 27th; 2020 30th; 2019 unranked; 2018 28th; 2017 unranked; 2016 11th; 2015 15th; 2014 unranked; 2013 28th.

These are the last 10 preseason polls. IU was ranked in 7 of the 10. If you read my post you will see: "I am sure that it may have happened at some point, but without looking it up I am fairly confident that IU was listed in the AP voting in most of the recent past years' preseason voting." 7 out of 10 certainly fits that description.

You seem to think that only in the Top 25 counts as a ranking. That is not true. If it was, then there would be no need for the AP to publish those other votes. The fact that they do means that a ranking has occurred based upon voting and those votes were published.

Your statement is incorrect because mathematically if they were not ranked in 14 of the past 20 then they would only be ranked in 6. It is demonstrated that they were ranked in 7 of the past 10.
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Receiving votes at 27th isn't being ranked.
 
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arcb102000 said:
Not correct.
Here is the list of years and IU's ranking in the preseason AP polls. You can look them up on espn.com

2022 13th; 2021 27th; 2020 30th; 2019 unranked; 2018 28th; 2017 unranked; 2016 11th; 2015 15th; 2014 unranked; 2013 28th.

These are the last 10 preseason polls. IU was ranked in 7 of the 10. If you read my post you will see: "I am sure that it may have happened at some point, but without looking it up I am fairly confident that IU was listed in the AP voting in most of the recent past years' preseason voting." 7 out of 10 certainly fits that description.

You seem to think that only in the Top 25 counts as a ranking. That is not true. If it was, then there would be no need for the AP to publish those other votes. The fact that they do means that a ranking has occurred based upon voting and those votes were published.

Your statement is incorrect because mathematically if they were not ranked in 14 of the past 20 then they would only be ranked in 6. It is demonstrated that they were ranked in 7 of the past 10.
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Yes, only the top 25 counts as being ranked. Anything outside of that is unranked. Kind of the point of the Top 25. It isn't the Top 27 or Top 30.

And yes, Indiana in the past 20 seasons has only be ranked preseason 6 times. And this is the first year since 2015 they were ranked in the preseason.
 
arcb102000 said:
Not correct.
Here is the list of years and IU's ranking in the preseason AP polls. You can look them up on espn.com

2022 13th; 2021 27th; 2020 30th; 2019 unranked; 2018 28th; 2017 unranked; 2016 11th; 2015 15th; 2014 unranked; 2013 28th.

These are the last 10 preseason polls. IU was ranked in 7 of the 10. If you read my post you will see: "I am sure that it may have happened at some point, but without looking it up I am fairly confident that IU was listed in the AP voting in most of the recent past years' preseason voting." 7 out of 10 certainly fits that description.

You seem to think that only in the Top 25 counts as a ranking. That is not true. If it was, then there would be no need for the AP to publish those other votes. The fact that they do means that a ranking has occurred based upon voting and those votes were published.

Your statement is incorrect because mathematically if they were not ranked in 14 of the past 20 then they would only be ranked in 6. It is demonstrated that they were ranked in 7 of the past 10.
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Sorry, have to call BS here. In the general vernacular ranked means in the top 25, not 'also receiving votes'. It doesn't undermine the view that IU has generally been more highly regarded preseason, but receiving the 28th most votes is generally not considered to be 'ranked'.
 
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IMSKRONG said:
If Purdue fans wanted any credibility they wouldn't stay "it's all over." Or cry about the refs and then try to act holier than thou when other teams fans do.
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You are setting a low bar and achieving it if you want to achieve that level of credibility (or lack thereof).
 
If you want to say ranking only means Top 25 so be it. But the fact remains that AP publishes votes received. NW is ranked 26th this week according to votes in the AP poll. IU was listed in the AP voting in those preseason polls which is what I posted.

AP must consider it a ranking as they continue to publish these numbers. If they intended only the Top 25 to be considered, then why publish the others? Think of the definition of a ranking: it is the listing of a set based upon the value of a variable.

If people in the vernacular misstate a fact, that does not mean that the fact does not exist.

If you want to say that IU was not ranked in the Top 25 in those years, Ok, but to say that they were not ranked is incorrect. And again, I will point out that I posted receiving votes, so I do not know what the point of disagreement is because in those years cited they definitely received votes.
 
arcb102000 said:
If you want to say ranking only means Top 25 so be it. But the fact remains that AP publishes votes received. NW is ranked 26th this week according to votes in the AP poll. IU was listed in the AP voting in those preseason polls which is what I posted.

AP must consider it a ranking as they continue to publish these numbers. If they intended only the Top 25 to be considered, then why publish the others? Think of the definition of a ranking: it is the listing of a set based upon the value of a variable.

If people in the vernacular misstate a fact, that does not mean that the fact does not exist.

If you want to say that IU was not ranked in the Top 25 in those years, Ok, but to say that they were not ranked is incorrect. And again, I will point out that I posted receiving votes, so I do not know what the point of disagreement is because in those years cited they definitely received votes.
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It's twisting facts. It's misrepresentation of facts. Which is just unethical. Receiving votes outside the Top 25 isn't equal to being ranked. It's just being unranked but on the radar. And the fact there was somehow a narrative that Indiana was ranked every year among Purdue fans is just a wild made up world that didn't exist. Same as TJD being a one and done and a 5 star when neither were the case for him going into college.
 
IMSKRONG said:
It's twisting facts. It's misrepresentation of facts. Which is just unethical. Receiving votes outside the Top 25 isn't equal to being ranked. It's just being unranked but on the radar. And the fact there was somehow a narrative that Indiana was ranked every year among Purdue fans is just a wild made up world that didn't exist. Same as TJD being a one and done and a 5 star when neither were the case for him going into college.
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If it is not just "It's just being unranked but on the radar." because if you look at the listing, it is in decreasing number of votes. If it was just "on the radar", then votes would not matter; they could be listed alphabetically. But they are not, they are listed based upon the number of votes that they received. That is the variable measured and listed accordingly. That is the definition of a ranking.

As for making things up, you posted a list of ranking for 5 and 4 stars, yet it is not dated. So how do you know that it is the final ranking? So if you don't know, then how can you state with certainty that TJD was not a 5-star when he was in late March after the season ending? Here's the point: you cannot state that with any certainty. Also, you cite multiple ranking services of recruits as having value, but simultaneously declare only AP as having value in ranking teams, and cutting off that ranking at a point that you determine as well.

There is an extraordinary lack of consistency in your positions but all are to be accepted. You cite the vernacular in AP polling but reject the same vernacular when you claim that there is "...a narrative that Indiana was ranked every year among Purdue fans is just a made up (sic) world that doesn't exist." Here is the fact: Purdue fans do not believe that Indiana is rated too highly in the preseason every year. They do believe that Indiana is ranked too highly in the preseason in most years and the AP polling and the subsequent W/L records bear that out.

You lack logic, consistency, reason and self-awareness.

I was born and raised on the East Coast. When I came to Purdue I was a Teaching Assistant and I taught science to different student groups. One of those groups was students in the School of Agriculture. As a city kid, they taught me about agriculture. One of the lessons that they taught me was: "You cannot teach a pig to sing. You will frustrate yourself and annoy the pig." Attempting to converse with you violates their rule and I am ignoring that lesson. That is an error on my part.
 
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arcb102000 said:
If it is not just "It's just being unranked but on the radar." because if you look at the listing, it is in decreasing number of votes. If it was just "on the radar", then votes would not matter; they could be listed alphabetically. But they are not, they are listed based upon the number of votes that they received. That is the variable measured and listed accordingl

As for making things up, you posted a list of ranking for 5 and 4 stars, yet it is not dated. So how do you know that it is the final ranking? So if you don't know, then how can you state with certainty that TJD was not a 5-star when he was in late March after the season ending? Here's the point: you cannot state that with any certainty. Also, you cite multiple ranking services of recruits as having value, but simultaneously declare only AP as having value in ranking teams, and cutting off that ranking at a point that you determine as well.

There is an extraordinary lack of consistency in your positions but all are to be accepted. You cite the vernacular in AP polling but reject the same vernacular when you claim that there is "...a narrative that Indiana was ranked every year among Purdue fans is just a made up (sic) world that doesn't exist." Here is the fact: Purdue fans do not believe that Indiana is rated too highly in the preseason every year. They do believe that Indiana is ranked too highly in the preseason in most years and the AP polling and the subsequent W/L records bear that out.

You lack logic, consistency, reason and self-awareness.

I was born and raised on the East Coast. When I came to Purdue I was a Teaching Assistant and I taught science to different student groups. One of those groups was students in the School of Agriculture. As a city kid, they taught me about agriculture. One of the lessons that they taught me was: "You cannot teach a pig to sing. You will frustrate yourself and annoy the pig." Attempting to converse with you violates their rule and I am ignoring that lesson. That is an error on my part.
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Because it is on the radar or else there would be a number and the Top 25 would be the top 27 instead.

How do I know it was ESPNs final rankings for recruits? Because that was the last posting ESPN made and the last update they made. They don't put a date on any of their rankings but they also don't save outdated rankings for specific classes.

I know you don't quite understand how these very simple practices in sports work, but how about trying to be open minded so you can actually learn?
 
IMSKRONG said:
Because it is on the radar or else there would be a number and the Top 25 would be the top 27 instead.

How do I know it was ESPNs final rankings for recruits? Because that was the last posting ESPN made and the last update they made. They don't put a date on any of their rankings but they also don't save outdated rankings for specific classes.

I know you don't quite understand how these very simple practices in sports work, but how about trying to be open minded so you can actually learn?
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You do not know the date by your own admission. Hence you cannot state that it was made after March 27th (?) of 2019. I understand that much. How do you know what they save and don't save? You just make these statements out of your own ideas.

Look, you have stated here quite clearly that you have no respect for the credibility of people here. OK, that's your opinion. But since you: a) do not think that I or others here have credibility and b) you like to move goalposts and twist comments improperly, then it makes no sense to engage in further discussion as nothing can be accomplished by doing so.
 
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arcb102000 said:
You do not know the date by your own admission. Hence you cannot state that it was made after March 27th (?) of 2019. I understand that much. How do you know what they save and don't save? You just make these statements out of your own ideas.

Look, you have stated here quite clearly that you have no respect for the credibility of people here. OK, that's your opinion. But since you: a) do not think that I or others here have credibility and 2) you like to move goalposts and twist comments improperly, then it makes no sense to engage in further discussion as nothing can be accomplished by doing so.
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Go ahead and go search around on ESPN. Best you might find is an ESPN+ article.

And let's be real, you're the one that doesn't understand simple pieces of collegiate sports. Top 25s are exactly rocket science. Again, maybe be open minded to learning from someone who knows more?
 
arcb102000 said:
You do not know the date by your own admission. Hence you cannot state that it was made after March 27th (?) of 2019. I understand that much. How do you know what they save and don't save? You just make these statements out of your own ideas.

Look, you have stated here quite clearly that you have no respect for the credibility of people here. OK, that's your opinion. But since you: a) do not think that I or others here have credibility and 2) you like to move goalposts and twist comments improperly, then it makes no sense to engage in further discussion as nothing can be accomplished by doing so.
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Amen and goodbye
 
With a couple weeks left the Big Tens two best players in B1G play...

Edey: 21.9 points, 13.1 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 2.7 blocks, 3 turnovers, 16 gamed

TJD: 21.9 points, 13.2 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 3.2 blocks, 3.3 turnovers, 15 games
 
Race still open oddly enough. I think with Purdue and Edey losing some games it takes some of the luster away from them. Only helps TJD. It'll be interesting how voters go. Prioritize B1G games where TJD has very clearly been better of all games where Edey has been better. Guess we will see. Still games left.
 
IMSKRONG said:
Race still open oddly enough. I think with Purdue and Edey losing some games it takes some of the luster away from them. Only helps TJD. It'll be interesting how voters go. Prioritize B1G games where TJD has very clearly been better of all games where Edey has been better. Guess we will see. Still games left.
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It’s not even a race
 
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From my sources, who is an AP voter, some voters take into account only the Big Ten schedule, others may take into account the whole season when voting for B1G POY.
 
For the record: that means your previous assertion in this thread that out-of-conference games having "zero impact" on the POY award was totally incorrect.
 
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arcb102000 said:
For the record: that means your previous assertion in this thread that out-of-conference games having "zero impact" on the POY award was totally incorrect.
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But he did agree there is a legitimate race. At least for anyone who didn't stop watching at the beginning of January.
 
He has the ability to speak only for himself. And perhaps he is local? Might have a regional bias??
 
IMSKRONG said:
With a couple weeks left the Big Tens two best players in B1G play...

Edey: 21.9 points, 13.1 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 2.7 blocks, 3 turnovers, 16 gamed

TJD: 21.9 points, 13.2 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 3.2 blocks, 3.3 turnovers, 15 games
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But Edey gets fouled 2-3 times on each play. Makes his stats that much more impressive.
 
TJD is 8th in assists in the Big Ten with a shot at passing Smith and finishing in the top 5 with a strong finish.

Cherry picking stats that show how even the frontrunners are
is comical btw.

How do think voters will weigh in that TJD has played injured since mid Nov and without his starting point guard for all but 2 Big Ten games?
 
2 weeks left y'all!!! Season coming to an end soon. Selection Sunday just freaking 22 days away!!! How wild is that?

B1G play for the two 1st team AAs.

Edey: 22.2 points, 12.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.2 steals, 2.7 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 17 games

TJD: 22.1 points, 13.1 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 3.3 blocks, 3.4 turnovers, 16 games

Purdue fans really need to learn how to appreciate talent like this while ya can. It isn't normal to see.
 
I wonder why IAMSKRONG never includes FG% in his stats post? Seems pretty relevant. I don’t know what those numbers are but I would think Zach’s is higher.
 
depthcharge623 said:
I wonder why IAMSKRONG never includes FG% in his stats post? Seems pretty relevant. I don’t know what those numbers are but I would think Zach’s is higher.
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Because they aren't really relevant. At 7-4, and never shooting outside of 5 feet, you should be shooting 60% from the field. He's not Wemby.
 
IMSKRONG said:
Because they aren't really relevant. At 7-4, and never shooting outside of 5 feet, you should be shooting 60% from the field. He's not Wemby.
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You act like Davis is some kind of outside threat. Teams don't even start guarding him until he's inside 10 feet. If you think Edey's game is limited then Davis is too. Why do you think he is still in college? If he could even be a threat from 15 feet he would have went pro 2 years ago.
 
Dryfly88 said:
You act like Davis is some kind of outside threat. Teams don't even start guarding him until he's inside 10 feet. If you think Edey's game is limited then Davis is too. Why do you think he is still in college? If he could even be a threat from 15 feet he would have went pro 2 years ago.
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TJD game is limited when it comes to scoring. But at 6-9 he just has to be way more creative off the post and with post moves. Edey has one post move but he's big enough that he doesn't really need any others at this level.
 
IMSKRONG said:
TJD game is limited when it comes to scoring. But at 6-9 he just has to be way more creative off the post and with post moves. Edey has one post move but he's big enough that he doesn't really need any others at this level.
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Keep up. The question was asked of you why you don't include shooting % in your comparisons. You responded that Edey doesn't shoot outside 5 feet. I then said neither does Davis. Nobody said anything about how many "moves" they have.
 
Dryfly88 said:
Keep up. The question was asked of you why you don't include shooting % in your comparisons. You responded that Edey doesn't shoot outside 5 feet. I then said neither does Davis. Nobody said anything about how many "moves" they have.
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Right. Edey is 7-4 and shoots inside 5 feet. There isn't a large inference for him from anyone in the conference. It's just turn to his left shoulder and basically shoot it down at the rim. He's not going up every night with people his size or bigger. It's a different game. Why Purdue fans struggle with acknowledging how much Edeys size helps him is honestly unbelievable. The amount of denial.
 
IMSKRONG said:
Right. Edey is 7-4 and shoots inside 5 feet. There isn't a large inference for him from anyone in the conference. It's just turn to his left shoulder and basically shoot it down at the rim. He's not going up every night with people his size or bigger. It's a different game. Why Purdue fans struggle with acknowledging how much Edeys size helps him is honestly unbelievable. The amount of denial.
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What difference does it make? He is what he is. You need to evaluate results. How you obtain those results is irrelevant.
 
PurdueDave said:
What difference does it make? He is what he is. You need to evaluate results. How you obtain those results is irrelevant.
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How is being 7-4 irrelevant? That size makes a massive difference. And the only people on the planet who are in denial, are Purdues fans.
 
IMSKRONG said:
TJD game is limited when it comes to scoring. But at 6-9 he just has to be way more creative off the post and with post moves. Edey has one post move but he's big enough that he doesn't really need any others at this level.
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he has 2, he has a nice drop step to his off side as witnessed yesterday
 
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