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Betching about Biggie...

T

TJBoiler

Mar 11, 2011
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I agree with Painter playing the younger players. First Biggie had a bad game but he leads the Big 10 in rebounding. Biggie came to Purdue to learn the 4 so he could hopefully play in the NBA. Cline has struggled too... But both of these players are FRESHMAN. I always give frosh a break. Both of these players were 1-2 in Mr. Basketball and both won state championships.

Painter is trying to rebuild the program after 2 awful and I mean awful years (2013-2014) due to what Painter admitted was his fault in recruiting. Their seems to be a certain view on Purdue boards Painter is hurting the team's chances this year by playing younger players so much. Maybe so but I don't think this is a Final 4 team anyway as the parts just don't fit together as well as hoped.

The future of the program is the next 2-3 (including this) year's with players like Biggie, Cline, Haas, Edwards, Mathias, PJ and Carsen Edwards who looks pretty good along with some others. I think Purdue next year will be an interesting team assuming Biggie comes back.

This isn't just about this season. It's about the Program's future for the next several years. Hammons plays really well at times. But he is still not even listed as a #1 pick in mocks AND the team captain is a liability on offense when this team craves consistent O from the guard play.

Anything can happen in the tournament but you have to get there first and I expect this program to be in the NCAA tournament for the next 3 years. REMEMBER when they couldn't even get a NIT bid and played in that off shoot tournament 3 years ago? That was totally embarrassing and they lost.

I have never gotten this stuff about seedings, Just like winning the lottery. You can't win unless you buy a ticket. You can't win in the NCAA unless you are in the tournament. Wisconsin in 2000 made the final 4 with an 8 seed. Matchups and playing good basketball are what is important in the tourney.

I might add that Purdue under Keady had some legit Final 4 teams that flamed out in the tournament. Much better teams than this one. It's fun to watch your fav team play in the NCAA and hope the BBall Gods shine on your team that year.

The Maryland loss was disappointing as Purdue fell apart late. But physically Purdue can play with any team in the country. It's the lack of outside shooting in the crunch against ranked teams and mental decision making that are hurting this team right now.
 
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So in other words, "wait til next year". Nice.

We lose our leader and best perimeter defender along with our best overall player and interior defender. We will have a freshman PG who might help, but PG won't be a strength next year and no one is coming in to save us at the 2. I don't see us being better next year, and I think that is the max Biggie stays (2 years) plus I'm just tired of saying wait til next year. How about this year? Painter has a lot of size and enough talent on this roster, let's see what he can get them to do.
 
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cprh9u said:
So in other words, "wait til next year". Nice.

We lose our leader and best perimeter defender along with our best overall player and interior defender. We will have a freshman PG who might help, but PG won't be a strength next year and no one is coming in to save us at the 2. I don't see us being better next year, and I think that is the max Biggie stays (2 years) plus I'm just tired of saying wait til next year. How about this year? Painter has a lot of size and enough talent on this roster, let's see what he can get them to do.
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Really? How long have we been in "Wait til next year" mode? It's what we hear every year since "that one year" so long ago now. It's a fact we won't have AJ next year, our best player. We won't have Davis, our best defender. And I can't imagine Biggie will be around after next year. Your response is spot on. I don't want to hear next year. This team has the potential, but lacks creativity on offense. And, honestly, this isn't one of the most basketball smart teams we've seen at Purdue. My gut tells me that if Painter doesn't figure something out this year, we'll see regression for the next couple. So, the "Bigger picture" is just fabricated out of hopes and dreams IMO. THIS is the year, not next year.
 
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TJBoiler said:
I agree with Painter playing the younger players. First Biggie had a bad game but he leads the Big 10 in rebounding. Biggie came to Purdue to learn the 4 so he could hopefully play in the NBA. Cline has struggled too... But both of these players are FRESHMAN. I always give frosh a break. Both of these players were 1-2 in Mr. Basketball and both won state championships.

Painter is trying to rebuild the program after 2 awful and I mean awful years (2013-2014) due to what Painter admitted was his fault in recruiting. Their seems to be a certain view on Purdue boards Painter is hurting the team's chances this year by playing younger players so much. Maybe so but I don't think this is a Final 4 team anyway as the parts just don't fit together as well as hoped.

The future of the program is the next 2-3 (including this) year's with players like Biggie, Cline, Haas, Edwards, Mathias, PJ and Carsen Edwards who looks pretty good along with some others. I think Purdue next year will be an interesting team assuming Biggie comes back.

This isn't just about this season. It's about the Program's future for the next several years. Hammons plays really well at times. But he is still not even listed as a #1 pick in mocks AND the team captain is a liability on offense when this team craves consistent O from the guard play.

Anything can happen in the tournament but you have to get there first and I expect this program to be in the NCAA tournament for the next 3 years. REMEMBER when they couldn't even get a NIT bid and played in that off shoot tournament 3 years ago? That was totally embarrassing and they lost.

I have never gotten this stuff about seedings, Just like winning the lottery. You can't win unless you buy a ticket. You can't win in the NCAA unless you are in the tournament. Wisconsin in 2000 made the final 4 with an 8 seed. Matchups and playing good basketball are what is important in the tourney.

I might add that Purdue under Keady had some legit Final 4 teams that flamed out in the tournament. Much better teams than this one. It's fun to watch your fav team play in the NCAA and hope the BBall Gods shine on your team that year.

The Maryland loss was disappointing as Purdue fell apart late. But physically Purdue can play with any team in the country. It's the lack of outside shooting in the crunch against ranked teams and mental decision making that are hurting this team right now.
Click to expand...

This is a great post. Nice to see some well thought out insight.
 
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Have to just say it Biggie got abused all game by Carter like an nba vet does to a rookie. Hopefully that was a wakeup call and he doesnt think about going anywhere after this season
 
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I'm not in the fire Painter camp, but if I thought he was making decisions this year with next year in mind, I might join.

He's focused on this year. I think Biggie's still getting plenty of minutes because coach Painter believes he should be out there for this year, including continuing to improve so he is as ready as possible for the end of the season tournaments. This is a year to maximize, as someone pointed out - not wait until next year.

As far as shooters, if we had the answer to that riddle we would be a top 10 team and would have beaten Maryland yesterday. I think he's still struggling to find the player or two who can most consistently hit 3's when we really need them, including under pressure and after running full speed around screens. As frustrating as the poor shooting is for is, it must be more frustrating for the coaches and team because the potential is there.

The one silver lining is... If our shooting happens to be good in the tourney, then we could go as deep as the good shooting lasts, because I think we're consistently good in enough other ways.
 
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CRBoiler said:
I'm not in the fire Painter camp, but if I thought he was making decisions this year with next year in mind, I might join.

He's focused on this year. I think Biggie's still getting plenty of minutes because coach Painter believes he should be out there for this year, including continuing to improve so he is as ready as possible for the end of the season tournaments. This is a year to maximize, as someone pointed out - not wait until next year.

As far as shooters, if we had the answer to that riddle we would be a top 10 team and would have beaten Maryland yesterday. I think he's still struggling to find the player or two who can most consistently hit 3's when we really need them, including under pressure and after running full speed around screens. As frustrating as the poor shooting is for is, it must be more frustrating for the coaches and team because the potential is there.

The one silver lining is... If our shooting happens to be good in the tourney, then we could go as deep as the good shooting lasts, because I think we're consistently good in enough other ways.
Click to expand...
Great post. Shooting is the biggest issue holding us back. If we get it going watch out 'Murica.
 
CRBoiler said:
I'm not in the fire Painter camp, but if I thought he was making decisions this year with next year in mind, I might join.

He's focused on this year. I think Biggie's still getting plenty of minutes because coach Painter believes he should be out there for this year, including continuing to improve so he is as ready as possible for the end of the season tournaments. This is a year to maximize, as someone pointed out - not wait until next year.

As far as shooters, if we had the answer to that riddle we would be a top 10 team and would have beaten Maryland yesterday. I think he's still struggling to find the player or two who can most consistently hit 3's when we really need them, including under pressure and after running full speed around screens. As frustrating as the poor shooting is for is, it must be more frustrating for the coaches and team because the potential is there.

The one silver lining is... If our shooting happens to be good in the tourney, then we could go as deep as the good shooting lasts, because I think we're consistently good in enough other ways.
Click to expand...
The only real way to get one of the shooters really going is to play them significant minutes through their mistakes and weaknesses. A shooter will not catch fire playing 10-15 mpg but they are currently behind our senior captain and B1GDPOY so the playing time will not be there this season. We will have to hope for a crazy hot shooting day from one f our 3 shooters in the tourney but I don't think we'll see true consistency until next season (I hope I am wrong about that). That said, I'd actually give up some D for offense and would like to see Cline get the bulk of the minutes at the 2.
 
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TJBoiler said:
I agree with Painter playing the younger players. First Biggie had a bad game but he leads the Big 10 in rebounding. Biggie came to Purdue to learn the 4 so he could hopefully play in the NBA. Cline has struggled too... But both of these players are FRESHMAN. I always give frosh a break. Both of these players were 1-2 in Mr. Basketball and both won state championships.

Painter is trying to rebuild the program after 2 awful and I mean awful years (2013-2014) due to what Painter admitted was his fault in recruiting. Their seems to be a certain view on Purdue boards Painter is hurting the team's chances this year by playing younger players so much. Maybe so but I don't think this is a Final 4 team anyway as the parts just don't fit together as well as hoped.

The future of the program is the next 2-3 (including this) year's with players like Biggie, Cline, Haas, Edwards, Mathias, PJ and Carsen Edwards who looks pretty good along with some others. I think Purdue next year will be an interesting team assuming Biggie comes back.

This isn't just about this season. It's about the Program's future for the next several years. Hammons plays really well at times. But he is still not even listed as a #1 pick in mocks AND the team captain is a liability on offense when this team craves consistent O from the guard play.

Anything can happen in the tournament but you have to get there first and I expect this program to be in the NCAA tournament for the next 3 years. REMEMBER when they couldn't even get a NIT bid and played in that off shoot tournament 3 years ago? That was totally embarrassing and they lost.

I have never gotten this stuff about seedings, Just like winning the lottery. You can't win unless you buy a ticket. You can't win in the NCAA unless you are in the tournament. Wisconsin in 2000 made the final 4 with an 8 seed. Matchups and playing good basketball are what is important in the tourney.

I might add that Purdue under Keady had some legit Final 4 teams that flamed out in the tournament. Much better teams than this one. It's fun to watch your fav team play in the NCAA and hope the BBall Gods shine on your team that year.

The Maryland loss was disappointing as Purdue fell apart late. But physically Purdue can play with any team in the country. It's the lack of outside shooting in the crunch against ranked teams and mental decision making that are hurting this team right now.
Click to expand...

So basically you're willing to sacrifice games this year in hopes we will be better in future years? Guess I don't agree. We are a top 20 team in a wide open year in college bball. I think we should be trying our best to win every game this year. If that means not playing Swanigan the most minutes on the team then so be it.

Finally one might argue that a bit more time on the bench might accelerate his learning curve.
 
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Wiltthastilt said:
Have to just say it Biggie got abused all game by Carter like an nba vet does to a rookie. Hopefully that was a wakeup call and he doesnt think about going anywhere after this season
Click to expand...

I don't think any sane person would say he's going anywhere after this year. He may not even be going anywhere after next year, so I wouldn't even worry about discussing it at this point. He's got a lot to improve on and he knows it - he's a hard worker.

The most important thing Swanigan can do for himself is to not worry about the hype, not worry about the NBA, etc. He's already young for his age - the more he is distracted by that kind of talk, the worse it will be for him. I think at the beginning of the year, that was a problem. He's still making some freshman decisions/mistakes, but he's getting better.
 
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TJBoiler said:
I agree with Painter playing the younger players. First Biggie had a bad game but he leads the Big 10 in rebounding. Biggie came to Purdue to learn the 4 so he could hopefully play in the NBA. Cline has struggled too... But both of these players are FRESHMAN. I always give frosh a break. Both of these players were 1-2 in Mr. Basketball and both won state championships.
Click to expand...
My issue with both the freshman you mentioned is shot selection. Cline shooting this fading back / falling away 3's is not his game (that's very few people's game in basketball, really). It's one thing to struggle with faster game, bigger stage, etc., that stuff is understandable for a freshman. But he's not taking smart shots like did in high school that earned him recognition as one of the best shooters in the state last year.

With Swanigan... just stop shooting 3's altogether. It's not what Purdue needs from him, plus it takes him away from the basket as potential rebounder when he misses - which is just over 71% of the time! I'm shocked that Painter is so agreeable to him continuing to shoot the long ball. It just makes no sense to me. I wonder if in his mind he feels he has to allow Biggie a longer leash because of his ranking. In other words, he finally gets a 5-star player and perhaps he doesn't want to be viewed by other top recruits as handcuffing / limiting his star player's game.

I dunno, even that view seems a little dumb to me too, but I really just don't know what else it could be. At the end of the day, there must be some reason CMP is permitting him to shoot 3's, and I know Painter is too smart to believe it's because it gives his team the best chance to win right now.
 
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cprh9u said:
So in other words, "wait til next year". Nice.

We lose our leader and best perimeter defender along with our best overall player and interior defender. We will have a freshman PG who might help, but PG won't be a strength next year and no one is coming in to save us at the 2. I don't see us being better next year, and I think that is the max Biggie stays (2 years) plus I'm just tired of saying wait til next year. How about this year? Painter has a lot of size and enough talent on this roster, let's see what he can get them to do.
Click to expand...

Some people dont understand what peaking it, this should reading as "so in other words wait till march" and "we have talent for the future". Playing Biggie large amounts of time will pay off at the end of the season. no question. We will probably even see it pay off Tuesday.
 
Boiler_HD said:
Some people dont understand what peaking it, this should reading as "so in other words wait till march" and "we have talent for the future". Playing Biggie large amounts of time will pay off at the end of the season. no question. We will probably even see it pay off Tuesday.
Click to expand...

Re-read the OP, which I was replying to:

"Their seems to be a certain view on Purdue boards Painter is hurting the team's chances this year by playing younger players so much. Maybe so but I don't think this is a Final 4 team anyway as the parts just don't fit together as well as hoped.

The future of the program is the next 2-3 (including this) year's with players like Biggie, Cline, Haas, Edwards, Mathias, PJ and Carsen Edwards who looks pretty good along with some others."

That's not talk of getting better for March. That's "oh well, this isn't a final 4 team, let's play for the future" which is absurd. BBG then comes in with a "some don't get the bigger picture" replying to those comments. What in the world? There are no dominant teams this year, and with good coaching and the players stepping up, there is no reason why we can't be a final 4 team THIS YEAR. The only picture right now is 2016. Playing your best players now and winning now will help create a culture of winning and prepare our young guys for the future. No way we just say this isn't a final 4 team so let's just get our young guys some experience. That was seriously the worst post I've seen on this board in a long time, and the fact that so many seem to agree with it is just sad.
 
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Boiler_HD said:
Some people dont understand what peaking it, this should reading as "so in other words wait till march" and "we have talent for the future". Playing Biggie large amounts of time will pay off at the end of the season. no question. We will probably even see it pay off Tuesday.
Click to expand...

So you think he's going to flip a switch here soon in the middle of February and be able to guard someone? Be efficient offensively? We'll all welcome it but that doesn't usually happen in the middle of the season. Large improvements are typically made in the offseason.
 
cprh9u said:
The only picture right now is 2016. Playing your best players now and winning now will help create a culture of winning and prepare our young guys for the future. No way we just say this isn't a final 4 team so let's just get our young guys some experience. That was seriously the worst post I've seen on this board in a long time, and the fact that so many seem to agree with it is just sad.
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My view aligns pretty close to yours on this. The only way this makes any sense is if the season has been a total disappointment and Purdue is back in the CBI again. Sure, maybe then you go all-in on next year. But not 2 games past the half-way point of conference play when you're sitting in 5th place and your next game is at home against 4th place... if I knew how to do it, this is where I'd insert a Herm Edwards "you play to win the game" GIF.
 
Some of you take an "either-or" perspective on this. I Think you are overplaying this topic. We recruited tremendous talent in Biggie and Cline. How do you get the most out of these kids? You have to play them. No other way. When you play a freshman, you have to be willing to accept their mistakes. For example, if you watched the Maryland game, and listened to DD, he pointed out several times where Stone made freshman mistakes. It happens on all teams. You play these guys to tap into their talent. They make mistakes, but the also make great plays. They get better through the year, but only if they play. We lead the nation in rebounding because we play a fresman. We develop future players because we play them as freshman.

:cool:
 
Biggie came to Purdue presumably because he could play the 4 instead of the 5. But in today's college game, I don't know if he will ever be able to play good D at the 4. He will learn a few things from this season in terms of how to play. But I don't know if he will ever have the lateral quickness to keep up with the more athletic 4s. How much improvement can e expect. He has played in 20+ games now including 10+ in BIG and I'm not seeing a lot of improvement.

On offensive he has had trouble driving/dribbling. He is a very tenacious rebounder and has a nice shot from 12 feet in, and sometimes has good vision to feed the post. I'm not seeing much else at this point and I can't image him making enough improvements to be a 1st round draft choice next season. If he does, then Purdue will have a good year.

Lots of question marks for Biggie moving forward (no pun intended).
 
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I think the speed of the college game has surprised more than one freshman. The ball gets around the perimeter so fast, you can get surprised easily, if you haven't seen it move that fast before. I think Maryland's competancy did cause Biggie some problems, because he was matched against a kid who was his equal in physical size and skill. He will learn and get better. He is already hugely better than where he started this year. He will continue to imporve. With the NCAAT, we are subject to the luck of the draw - the matchups will determine how far we can go.

:cool:
 
Boiler Wolf said:
Biggie came to Purdue presumably because he could play the 4 instead of the 5. But in today's college game, I don't know if he will ever be able to play good D at the 4. He will learn a few things from this season in terms of how to play. But I don't know if he will ever have the lateral quickness to keep up with the more athletic 4s. How much improvement can e expect. He has played in 20+ games now including 10+ in BIG and I'm not seeing a lot of improvement.

On offensive he has had trouble driving/dribbling. He is a very tenacious rebounder and has a nice shot from 12 feet in, and sometimes has good vision to feed the post. I'm not seeing much else at this point and I can't image him making enough improvements to be a 1st round draft choice next season. If he does, then Purdue will have a good year.

Lots of question marks for Biggie moving forward (no pun intended).
Click to expand...

I think he can certainly defend the 4. But there's a couple things to note..

-Being a 4/5 is harder to adjust to in college than your 1/2/3. Is he a prototype 4? Absolutely not. So not only is he a freshman, but he's adjusting to a position he may or may not be suited for greatly right now. It will take some time.

-He's still young for his age. He really should be a senior in high school right now. So not only is he a true freshman, he's basically a HS senior playing against college players. So there's even more of an adjustment.

Experience is a wonderful thing.
 
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cprh9u said:
So in other words, "wait til next year". Nice.

We lose our leader and best perimeter defender along with our best overall player and interior defender. We will have a freshman PG who might help, but PG won't be a strength next year and no one is coming in to save us at the 2. I don't see us being better next year, and I think that is the max Biggie stays (2 years) plus I'm just tired of saying wait til next year. How about this year? Painter has a lot of size and enough talent on this roster, let's see what he can get them to do.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on all points with the exception of Biggie staying. I'm very confident he will be with us at least through his junior year and, very possibly, all four. He has a lot of work to do before he is ready for the NBA, starting with defense. If we're looking ahead, I actually think our strongest team may be two years from now when the 2014 class are seniors, Carsen is a Soph, Cline and Biggie. Whoa! Watch out.
 
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Chuchumutha said:
I agree with you on all points with the exception of Biggie staying. I'm very confident he will be with us at least through his junior year and, very possibly, all four. He has a lot of work to do before he is ready for the NBA, starting with defense. If we're looking ahead, I actually think our strongest team may be two years from now when the 2014 class are seniors, Carsen is a Soph, Cline and Biggie. Whoa! Watch out.
Click to expand...
I was thinking this the other day.
When our sophomore class are seniors, we would have tons of experience and skill.
 
Re: Biggie's green light behind the arc.. Earlier in the season the observation was made that he usually takes at least one 3 pointer very early on in games. I postulated at the time that it was likely purposeful (i.e., coached) and accomplished 2 things: (1) putting the thought in the mind of the defense to stretch them out and soften the post for AJ/Isaac and (2) a heat check for Swanigan (let's face it, he is one of the few who is getting clean looks from the arc. So, if he is on..).

Unfortunately, looking at the stats there is no correlation between Swanigan shooting well from 3 and overall offensive production. In fact some of his best shooting games (Butler, Illinois) were the worst games for Purdue as a whole. I'm not sure what this means exactly, but the leash needs to be shortened from the 0-5 on Saturday. I actually got the feeling he was getting drawn into sort of a pissing match with Carter, which was not surprising for a freshman, but extremely counterproductive.

I think we are about to the point in the season where the rotations get tightened up a bit anyway, and I think we will see minor role adjustments for both freshmen as we head into the post season.
 
Remember Biggie is coming off an ankle injury...yes he missed some closeouts but he is trying to get back to 100%......

He will play better against MSU.....and IU.....and down the stretch....

I believe....
 
Chuchumutha said:
I agree with you on all points with the exception of Biggie staying. I'm very confident he will be with us at least through his junior year and, very possibly, all four. He has a lot of work to do before he is ready for the NBA, starting with defense. If we're looking ahead, I actually think our strongest team may be two years from now when the 2014 class are seniors, Carsen is a Soph, Cline and Biggie. Whoa! Watch out.
Click to expand...

Yeah! Watch out in 3 years! Geez, I can't believe the mentality of some on here.

The fact that Biggie leads the team in minutes (or is even top 2) is a JOKE!

He has a ton of talent, be is a freshman, turns the ball over, is inefficient on offense, and a liability on D.

Obviously, he should be getting minutes, and his rebounding (and when he wants to play down low) can be a huge asset, but power forward project Biggie is a liability out there.

He may very well be an absolute stud by his junior or senior year, but not now.
 
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I really didn't expect a win on the road at MD but tomorrow is absolutely critical to the success of the season.
 
Wiltthastilt said:
Have to just say it Biggie got abused all game by Carter like an nba vet does to a rookie. Hopefully that was a wakeup call and he doesnt think about going anywhere after this season
Click to expand...
Watch the GBI/Rosie Barnes interview. Without coming right out and saying it, Barnes told us Biggie will be back next year. Biggie has a lot to work on and he knows it. Rosie said the NBA will tell a kid when the money is there for him and Biggie hasn't been told that yet. Fortunately the kid has a good head on his shoulders and won't bolt just because he thinks it's time.
 
BoilerDeac said:
Yeah! Watch out in 3 years! Geez, I can't believe the mentality of some on here.

The fact that Biggie leads the team in minutes (or is even top 2) is a JOKE!

He has a ton of talent, be is a freshman, turns the ball over, is inefficient on offense, and a liability on D.

Obviously, he should be getting minutes, and his rebounding (and when he wants to play down low) can be a huge asset, but power forward project Biggie is a liability out there.

He may very well be an absolute stud by his junior or senior year, but not now.
Click to expand...
I believe Biggie will stay two more years unless his development keeps him here for three more.
 
can you imagine the comments on this board if biggie wasn't playing the minutes he is. he is one of the best players let him play
 
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I am sure Swanigan is aware of his shooting, but when you can't get the ball inside, he probably feels his shot is as good as any from the outside. Its like I always say, there is no reason to cut down a player, the coach is making the decision to play him, the guy is doing the best he can , so evidently the coach likes what he sees.
 
i'm actually kinda glad to see someone shoot if he's not guarded. its doesn't have be a 3 just try to score when the centers are the focus of the defense. make them guard you and the middle will open. 3's are ok with me. the shooters on the team will seldom get a shot that is uncontested. contested shots are not always bad shots
 
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