Another white supremacist mass shooting

[70boiler]

How many cop executions should Obama at least take a little bit of responsibility for?

Every single one where he called out police as a group generally engaging in violent, criminal behavior, like being rapists or invaders as a generic description of them as a group.

 

[doubleyous]

I'm not talking about drones you buy at Brookstone, bud. You're going to shoot a weaponized, military-grade (Predator or similar) drone with an AR-15?

I'm current military. I'll tell you the answer to that question is "no." I question whether you're being obtuse or you're really just this ignorant.

Your question is whether (Twin ) is being obtuse or ignorant ??

I guess mine is whether the sun is bright or hot.

 

[doubleyous]

How many cop executions should Obama at least take a little bit of responsibility for?

ZERO.

 

[SKYDOG]

An insincere non apology in which he accepted no responsibility whatsoever. And frankly, the only reason he did it was cynical, the optics of the situation were getting too bad.

Until he accepts responsibility for the role he has played in radicalizing these young men and proposes an actually reasonable plan of action to prevent further violence, it’s just empty words.

Why and how do you know it was insincere? That's your opinion, but it's not a fact knowing what someone means and feels when they offer up sympathetic words to a terrible situation.

 

[lbodel]

Your argument is not consistent. “You’re not in the business of preventing wrongful deaths”, but you want to keep people from being killed by semi-auto long guns? What’s the difference if someone is wrongfully killed via a semi-auto long gun or a semi-auto pistol? In the end, the people get shot and die. Why is it not significant that hundreds of people get shot dead in the streets of Chicago every year?

What's your argument for people buying assault weapons and 100 round magazines in stores and even online?!

 

[lbodel]

Mental derangement isn’t limited by color or belief system. All of these killers were deranged, otherwise they wouldn't have done what they did in the first place. You are too deranged and triggered to get that yourself it seems.

You might want to tell authorities the El Paso shooter is actually mentally ill. Because every move they've made sense does not indicate they think that, and they've talked to him multiple times.

Again I ask...why does the US have mass shooting problems caused according to you by mental illness, but no other country?

 

[70boiler]

You might want to tell authorities the El Paso shooter is actually mentally ill. Because every move they've made sense does not indicate they think that, and they've talked to him multiple times.

Again I ask...why does the US have mass shooting problems caused according to you by mental illness, but no other country?

You're posing those tough ones to the Board again. Let's see...do you think that it has to do with not only the number of guns but the type available...well, no if it was that simple something would be done to remedy it by our lawmakers, so I guess that I am just stumped. That was a great test question that I don't think anybody will be able to answer.

 

[SDBoiler1]

You're posing those tough ones to the Board again. Let's see...do you think that it has to do with not only the number of guns but the type available...well, no if it was that simple something would be done to remedy it by our lawmakers, so I guess that I am just stumped. That was a great test question that I don't think anybody will be able to answer.

Millions of people own AR-15s with high-capacity magazines, yet they don’t shoot up innocent victims. It takes a deranged individual to indiscriminately kill innocent people just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[doubleyous]

Millions of people own AR-15s with high-capacity magazines, yet they don’t shoot up innocent victims. It takes a deranged individual to indiscriminately kill innocent people just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There's only ONE country in the world that has used an atomic weapon, so why do we concern ourselves with
countries "that haven't (bombed) innocent victims" ?? AR-15's....ICBM's w/warheads.....one's a little more lethal than the other.....

50 megaton nuclear devices don't kill people.....
PEOPLE kill people...….

 

[SDBoiler1]

You might want to tell authorities the El Paso shooter is actually mentally ill. Because every move they've made sense does not indicate they think that, and they've talked to him multiple times.

Again I ask...why does the US have mass shooting problems caused according to you by mental illness, but no other country?

Despite your claim, that's not what I said. Other countries have mass murderers, too. In fact, on a per capita basis, the USA is not the worst country for mass murders by shootings by far. Not a great thing to brag about, but it's the truth.

Also, if you think mass shootings are limited to the USA, you're sadly mistaken. We've had our fair share, but this killing spree phenomenon is not specific to the USA.

Rank Name Location Year Victims Killed
1 Garissa University College Attack Garissa, Kenya 2015 148
2 Peshawar School Massacre Peshawar, Pakistan 2014 149
3 November 2015 Paris Attacks Paris, France 2015 130
4 2011 Norway Attacks Oslo, Norway 2011 77
5 Westgate Shopping Mall Attack Nairobi, Kenya 2013 67
6 2017 Las Vegas Shooting Las Vegas, Nevada, USA 2017 58
7 South Korea Shooting of 1982 Uiryeong County, South Korea 1982 56
8 New Zealand Mosque Shootings Christchurch, New Zealand 2019 51
9 2016 Orlando Nightclub Shooting Orlando, Florida, USA 2016 49
10 Sousse Beach Mass Shooting Sousse, Tunisia 2015 38
11 Port Arthur Masacre Port Arthur, Tasmania, Australia 1996 35
12 Virginia Tech Shootings Blacksburg, Virginia, USA 2007 32
13 Tian Mingjian Incident Beijing, China 1994 28
14 Sandy Hook Massacre Newtown, Connecticut, USA 2012 27
15 Sutherland Springs Church Shooting Sutherland Springs, Texas, USA 2017 26
16 Kampala Wedding Massacre Kampala, Uganda 1994 26
17 Luby's Shooting Killen, Texas, USA 1991 23
18 San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre San Ysidro, California, USA 1984 21
19 2015 Bamako Hotel Attack Bamako, Mali 2015 20
20 2010 Chihuahua Shootings Chihuahua, Mexico 2010 19
21 University of Texas Tower Shooting Austin, Texas, USA 1966 18
22 Dunblane Massacre Dunblane, Scotland, UK 1996 17
23 Erfurt School Massacre Erfurt, Germany 2002 17
24 Stoneman Douglas High School Shooting Parkland, Florida, USA 2018 17
25 Hungerford Massacre Hungergord, Berkshire, UK 1987 16
26 Winneden School Shooting Winnenden, Germany 2009 16
27 Columbine High School Massacre Columbine, Colorado, USA 1999 15
28 Edmond Post Office Shooting Edmond, Oklahoma, USA 1986 15
29 Toulon France Shooting Toulon, France 1995 15
30 Zug Massacre Zug, Switzerland 2001 14
31 Luxiol Massacre Luxiol, France 1989 14
32 2015 San Bernandino Attack San Bernardino, California, USA 2015 14
33 École Polytechnique massacre Montreal, Quebec, Canada 1,989 14
34 Pashupatinath Temple Shooting Mandsaur, India 1983 14
35 Aramoana Massacre Aramoana, New Zealand 1990 13
36 Fort Hood Shooting Fort Hood, Texas, USA 2009 13
37 Binghamton Shootings Binghamton, New York, USA 2009 13
38 Baku Shooting Baku, Azerbaijan 2009 13
39 Velika Ivanča Shooting Velika Ivanča, Serbia 2013 13
40 Kamwenge Trading Centre Shooting Kamwenge, Uganda 1994 13
41 Aurora Shooting Aurora, Colorado, USA 2012 12
42 1999 Atlanta Shooting Atlanta, Georgia, USA 1999 12
43 Rio de Janeiro School Shooting Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 2011 12
44 Campinas Massacre Campinas, Brazil 2016 12
45 Cumbria Shootings Cumbria, England, UK 2010 12
46 Charlie Hebdo Shooting Paris, France 2015 12
47 2011 Rio de Janeiro School Shooting Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 2011 12
48 Washington Navy Yard Shooting Washington, D.C., USA 2013 11
49 Geneva County Massacre Geneva County, Alabama, USA 2009 10
50 Bombo Shooting Bombo, Uganda 2013 10
51 Kauhajoki School Shooting Kauhajoki, Finland 2008 10



https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/america-doesnt-actually-lead-the-world-in-mass-shootings/

https://www.investors.com/politics/...-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/

 

[SDBoiler1]

There's only ONE country in the world that has used an atomic weapon, so why do we concern ourselves with
countries "that haven't (bombed) innocent victims" ?? AR-15's....ICBM's w/warheads.....one's a little more lethal than the other.....

50 megaton nuclear devices don't kill people.....
PEOPLE kill people...….

Non sequitur

 

[70boiler]

Millions of people own AR-15s with high-capacity magazines, yet they don’t shoot up innocent victims. It takes a deranged individual to indiscriminately kill innocent people just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The current suggestion that the problem is a mental health issue rather than a gun issue just makes no sense to me. Without question mass shooters have serious psychological/psychiatric issues to perform the acts they do. However, they are not bat shit crazy that would result in any reasonable likelihood of recognizing their inner issues prior to their acts. Is it the proposition that to have a gun everyone must submit to a psych evaluation? If not, how is the implementation of preventive action to occur? I understand that if there is an in-depth investigation into someone's background their eccentricities may come to light, but how is such an investigation going to be implemented? It's not like these shooters have been hospitalized for psychiatric illnesses and are then buying the guns, as I understand it. No one thinks the shooters are normal but how exactly are they to be diagnosed prior to their acting out?

 

[SDBoiler1]

The current suggestion that the problem is a mental health issue rather than a gun issue just makes no sense to me. Without question mass shooters have serious psychological/psychiatric issues to perform the acts they do. However, they are not bat shit crazy that would result in any reasonable likelihood of recognizing their inner issues prior to their acts. Is it the proposition that to have a gun everyone must submit to a psych evaluation? If not, how is the implementation of preventive action to occur? I understand that if there is an in-depth investigation into someone's background their eccentricities may come to light, but how is such an investigation going to be implemented? It's not like these shooters have been hospitalized for psychiatric illnesses and are then buying the guns, as I understand it. No one thinks the shooters are normal but how exactly are they to be diagnosed prior to their acting out?

It would have to be background checks, including checking Social Media accounts. It's a very slippery slope, I realize.

If someone has had previous mental health "episodes", that would have to be flagged. If they have previous violent crimes, assaults, etc., even if they were not felonies, they should be flagged for scrutiny. If someone has spent serious time in jail, they should be flagged.

If people have no record of these kinds of things, they should pass pretty easily. And so no one questions what I've just written, this is not intended to be an exhaustive list. Haven't given this much thought prior to now, to be honest.

 

[doubleyous]

Non sequitur

Sure. Just don't come with your AR-15/high capacity magazine sermon as if there needs to be some kind of MINIMUM number of mass murders involving this set-up before we consider its elimination. It doesn't have that level of support.

 

[70boiler]

It would have to be background checks, including checking Social Media accounts. It's a very slippery slope, I realize.

If someone has had previous mental health "episodes", that would have to be flagged. If they have previous violent crimes, assaults, etc., even if they were not felonies, they should be flagged for scrutiny. If someone has spent serious time in jail, they should be flagged.

If people have no record of these kinds of things, they should pass pretty easily. And so no one questions what I've just written, this is not intended to be an exhaustive list. Haven't given this much thought prior to now, to be honest.

Thus, the problem.
It would be at best a monumental undertaking and unfortunately be ultimatelyineffective, imho.

 

[doubleyous]

It would have to be background checks, including checking Social Media accounts. It's a very slippery slope, I realize.

If someone has had previous mental health "episodes", that would have to be flagged. If they have previous violent crimes, assaults, etc., even if they were not felonies, they should be flagged for scrutiny. If someone has spent serious time in jail, they should be flagged.

If people have no record of these kinds of things, they should pass pretty easily. And so no one questions what I've just written, this is not intended to be an exhaustive list. Haven't given this much thought prior to now, to be honest.

70boiler & SD Boiler1 have opened a discussion of how legislation might be shaped around the existence of mental health issues in reducing gun violence in this country. Minds at work.

Consider 1st, briefly, that D. Trump, just after taking office, rolled back an Obama Admin. regulation that would have added 75,000 names to a National Background database that dealt with gun purchases associated with mental health issues. Then consider the existing political reality that Trump and NRA campaign $ beneficiaries in congress present what has always been a stone wall in considering bills that would DIMINISH the number of future gun sales.

Good intentions aside, first have the discussion of how , politically, mental health/gun issues might be worked through in congress, before observing how a bill, perfectly conceived in a sub-committee, winds up toe-tagged before reaching a House/Senate floor.

 

[70boiler]

70boiler & SD Boiler1 have opened a discussion of how legislation might be shaped around the existence of mental health issues in reducing gun violence in this country. Minds at work.

Consider 1st, briefly, that D. Trump, just after taking office, rolled back an Obama Admin. regulation that would have added 75,000 names to a National Background database that dealt with gun purchases associated with mental health issues. Then consider the existing political reality that Trump and NRA campaign $ beneficiaries in congress present what has always been a stone wall in considering bills that would DIMINISH the number of future gun sales.

Good intentions aside, first have the discussion of how , politically, mental health/gun issues might be worked through in congress, before observing how a bill, perfectly conceived in a sub-committee, winds up toe-tagged before reaching a House/Senate floor.

I personally think it will be hopeless to actually augment any meaningful mental health checks for the reasons that I previously mentioned. But, probably a larger impediment will be the unwillingness of sufficient Congressmen, Senators, and the President, who will be willing to buck the enormous NRA howl that any background searching deep enough to get beyond the obvious hospitalizations or treatment reports that might become required, similar to child abuse mandatory reporting measures. Sad, but very likely as far as I can see.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

The current suggestion that the problem is a mental health issue rather than a gun issue just makes no sense to me. Without question mass shooters have serious psychological/psychiatric issues to perform the acts they do. However, they are not bat shit crazy that would result in any reasonable likelihood of recognizing their inner issues prior to their acts. Is it the proposition that to have a gun everyone must submit to a psych evaluation? If not, how is the implementation of preventive action to occur? I understand that if there is an in-depth investigation into someone's background their eccentricities may come to light, but how is such an investigation going to be implemented? It's not like these shooters have been hospitalized for psychiatric illnesses and are then buying the guns, as I understand it. No one thinks the shooters are normal but how exactly are they to be diagnosed prior to their acting out?

Funny that the former girlfriend of the Dayton shooter said he had voices in his head that weren't his own. What about at the same time we change gun laws, we allow profiling again. After all, if you're not bat shit crazy, and have nothing to hide, why would anyone object to it?

 

[BuilderBob6]

Red Flag laws. Being talked about a lot since the murders.

 

[doubleyous]

Despite your claim, that's not what I said. Other countries have mass murderers, too. In fact, on a per capita basis, the USA is not the worst country for mass murders by shootings by far. Not a great thing to brag about, but it's the truth.

Also, if you think mass shootings are limited to the USA, you're sadly mistaken. We've had our fair share, but this killing spree phenomenon is not specific to the USA.

Rank Name Location Year Victims Killed
1 Garissa University College Attack Garissa, Kenya 2015 148
2 Peshawar School Massacre Peshawar, Pakistan 2014 149
3 November 2015 Paris Attacks Paris, France 2015 130
4 2011 Norway Attacks Oslo, Norway 2011 77
5 Westgate Shopping Mall Attack Nairobi, Kenya 2013 67
6 2017 Las Vegas Shooting Las Vegas, Nevada, USA 2017 58
7 South Korea Shooting of 1982 Uiryeong County, South Korea 1982 56
8 New Zealand Mosque Shootings Christchurch, New Zealand 2019 51
9 2016 Orlando Nightclub Shooting Orlando, Florida, USA 2016 49
10 Sousse Beach Mass Shooting Sousse, Tunisia 2015 38
11 Port Arthur Masacre Port Arthur, Tasmania, Australia 1996 35
12 Virginia Tech Shootings Blacksburg, Virginia, USA 2007 32
13 Tian Mingjian Incident Beijing, China 1994 28
14 Sandy Hook Massacre Newtown, Connecticut, USA 2012 27
15 Sutherland Springs Church Shooting Sutherland Springs, Texas, USA 2017 26
16 Kampala Wedding Massacre Kampala, Uganda 1994 26
17 Luby's Shooting Killen, Texas, USA 1991 23
18 San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre San Ysidro, California, USA 1984 21
19 2015 Bamako Hotel Attack Bamako, Mali 2015 20
20 2010 Chihuahua Shootings Chihuahua, Mexico 2010 19
21 University of Texas Tower Shooting Austin, Texas, USA 1966 18
22 Dunblane Massacre Dunblane, Scotland, UK 1996 17
23 Erfurt School Massacre Erfurt, Germany 2002 17
24 Stoneman Douglas High School Shooting Parkland, Florida, USA 2018 17
25 Hungerford Massacre Hungergord, Berkshire, UK 1987 16
26 Winneden School Shooting Winnenden, Germany 2009 16
27 Columbine High School Massacre Columbine, Colorado, USA 1999 15
28 Edmond Post Office Shooting Edmond, Oklahoma, USA 1986 15
29 Toulon France Shooting Toulon, France 1995 15
30 Zug Massacre Zug, Switzerland 2001 14
31 Luxiol Massacre Luxiol, France 1989 14
32 2015 San Bernandino Attack San Bernardino, California, USA 2015 14
33 École Polytechnique massacre Montreal, Quebec, Canada 1,989 14
34 Pashupatinath Temple Shooting Mandsaur, India 1983 14
35 Aramoana Massacre Aramoana, New Zealand 1990 13
36 Fort Hood Shooting Fort Hood, Texas, USA 2009 13
37 Binghamton Shootings Binghamton, New York, USA 2009 13
38 Baku Shooting Baku, Azerbaijan 2009 13
39 Velika Ivanča Shooting Velika Ivanča, Serbia 2013 13
40 Kamwenge Trading Centre Shooting Kamwenge, Uganda 1994 13
41 Aurora Shooting Aurora, Colorado, USA 2012 12
42 1999 Atlanta Shooting Atlanta, Georgia, USA 1999 12
43 Rio de Janeiro School Shooting Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 2011 12
44 Campinas Massacre Campinas, Brazil 2016 12
45 Cumbria Shootings Cumbria, England, UK 2010 12
46 Charlie Hebdo Shooting Paris, France 2015 12
47 2011 Rio de Janeiro School Shooting Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 2011 12
48 Washington Navy Yard Shooting Washington, D.C., USA 2013 11
49 Geneva County Massacre Geneva County, Alabama, USA 2009 10
50 Bombo Shooting Bombo, Uganda 2013 10
51 Kauhajoki School Shooting Kauhajoki, Finland 2008 10



https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/america-doesnt-actually-lead-the-world-in-mass-shootings/

https://www.investors.com/politics/...-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/

1) We only have 5% of the world's population
2) And, if you restrict the calculation to only INDUSTRIALIZED, HIGHLY CIVILIZED COUNTRIES, then our record is disproportionately ugly ! Check the countries on the list.

 

[doubleyous]

Funny that the former girlfriend of the Dayton shooter said he had voices in his head that weren't his own. What about at the same time we change gun laws, we allow profiling again. After all, if you're not bat shit crazy, and have nothing to hide, why would anyone object to it?

The minute the Trump Administration is allowed to profile, how many Muslims, Hispanics, and people from " shithole " countries will be free to walk the streets ??

 

[70boiler]

Funny that the former girlfriend of the Dayton shooter said he had voices in his head that weren't his own. What about at the same time we change gun laws, we allow profiling again. After all, if you're not bat shit crazy, and have nothing to hide, why would anyone object to it?

But how is it decided who will have to undergo an evaluative process if no one reports any issues? Or are you saying that everyone who buys a gun will be required to have an evaluation? Neither seems very workable.

 

[70boiler]

Red Flag laws. Being talked about a lot since the murders.

Red flag laws are a no brainer but are no solution. How does red flagging someone who had mental health treatment prevent the person who has denied he is ill and never sought treatment from access to guns. Seems to me that covers most mass shooters.
Red Flag Laws, and for that matter targeting mental illness (which while a necessary component of any resolution, but as I have suggested inho is unworkable as any real answer) are nothing but red herrings proposed as feel good measures allowing politicians to avoid dealing with the strongest solution of limiting access to extended mags, assault style weapons and any related or similar answers.

 

[SDBoiler1]

1) We only have 5% of the world's population
2) And, if you restrict the calculation to only INDUSTRIALIZED, HIGHLY CIVILIZED COUNTRIES, then our record is disproportionately ugly ! Check the countries on the list.

So Norway, France, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, China, South Korea, Scotland, Switzerland, Canada.....don't count?

 

[bonefish1]

ZERO.

Ok, here's another question:
When a muslim does a mass shooting or uses a vehicle as a weapon while shouting "allah akbar" are they committing the crime in the name of islam or are they a deranged lunatic?

 

[lbodel]

Millions of people own AR-15s with high-capacity magazines, yet they don’t shoot up innocent victims. It takes a deranged individual to indiscriminately kill innocent people just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Ah, so we just need to live with the mass shootings when every other country in the world doesn't. Got it!

 

[PurdueFan1]

Millions of people own AR-15s with high-capacity magazines, yet they don’t shoot up innocent victims. It takes a deranged individual to indiscriminately kill innocent people just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Ah, so we just need to live with the mass shootings when every other country in the world doesn't. Got it!

Exactly. I have yet to see one justification as to why a civilian should own a weapon like that.

 

[lbodel]

Ok, here's another question:
When a muslim does a mass shooting or uses a vehicle as a weapon while shouting "allah akbar" are they committing the crime in the name of islam or are they a deranged lunatic?

White supremacy is a small fraction of white people across the world that take an extremist position. Members of ISIL or Al Qaeda is a small fraction of Muslims that take an extremist position.

Neither represent white people or Muslims as a whole. No race encourages mass murder, and no religion does either.

Mental illness, when motivating as a crime factor to me at least, means they aren't thinking clearly and don't understand what they are doing.

The shooter in El Paso knew exactly what he was thinking, strategizing, doing, etc.

 

[lbodel]

Don't worry, the talking points continue on Fox News....

Tucker Carlson on white supremacy being a problem in this country:

“It’s a hoax. Just like the Russia hoax, it’s a conspiracy theory used to divide the country and keep a hold on power.”

 

[lbodel]

So Norway, France, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, China, South Korea, Scotland, Switzerland, Canada.....don't count?

Dude, take a position but at least try to use sound arguments. You're now arguing our mass shootings per capita now are in line with the world? Get a grip.

New Zealand had 1 mass shooting in the last 20 years. A gun loving country, it banned semi-automatic weapons, magazines and its parts within days after their 1 mass shooting. They also implemented a buyback program, which led to thousands of semi-automatic guns being turned in in a matter of weeks.

It's now following up on legislation for gun registry, tighter restrictions on permits, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...reactions-mass-shootings-have-nothing-common/

 

[SDBoiler1]

Ah, so we just need to live with the mass shootings when every other country in the world doesn't. Got it!

Is that even remotely close to what I’ve said? Nice strawman.....

 

[SDBoiler1]

Dude, take a position but at least try to use sound arguments. You're now arguing our mass shootings per capita now are in line with the world? Get a grip.

New Zealand had 1 mass shooting in the last 20 years. A gun loving country, it banned semi-automatic weapons, magazines and its parts within days after their 1 mass shooting. They also implemented a buyback program, which led to thousands of semi-automatic guns being turned in in a matter of weeks.

It's now following up on legislation for gun registry, tighter restrictions on permits, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...reactions-mass-shootings-have-nothing-common/

New Zealand also doesn’t have a 2nd Amendment and it’s a tiny country.

The numbers I’ve cited were on a per capita basis. They were not numbers I made up. They quote studies done by people who know one hell of a lot more about this subject than either you or I.

 

[indy35]

Dude, take a position but at least try to use sound arguments. You're now arguing our mass shootings per capita now are in line with the world? Get a grip.

New Zealand had 1 mass shooting in the last 20 years. A gun loving country, it banned semi-automatic weapons, magazines and its parts within days after their 1 mass shooting. They also implemented a buyback program, which led to thousands of semi-automatic guns being turned in in a matter of weeks.

It's now following up on legislation for gun registry, tighter restrictions on permits, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...reactions-mass-shootings-have-nothing-common/

Telling SDBoiler to make a sound argument is telling a pig to do algebra. Not gonna happen.

 

[70boiler]

Ok, here's another question:
When a muslim does a mass shooting or uses a vehicle as a weapon while shouting "allah akbar" are they committing the crime in the name of islam or are they a deranged lunatic?

Why would you think that you should pose an either-or question? Despite your attempts to do so, most real world decisions and actions are more complex than either-or analysis. The alternatives that you propose simply are not mutually exclusive. Nor would including various political positions in your query, or various personal issues.
Much of my disagreement with the President and his supporters is the apparent refusal to attempt moderately complex analyzation of issues and to rather opt for simplistic either-or decision making.

 

[70boiler]

Mental illness, when motivating as a crime factor to me at least, means they aren't thinking clearly and don't understand what they are doing.

The shooter in El Paso knew exactly what he was thinking, strategizing, doing, etc.

I think you are talking about insanity as a legal concept for an affirmative defense, rather than mental illness, and the related personality disorders. Those are significantly differing concepts.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Me too. I'm not in the business of preventing wrongful deaths, which is why I find the red herring about "Why aren't you talking about the murders in Chicago?!?!" particularly obtuse. I agree with the assertion that criminals are going to be criminals, and that some will undoubtedly find a way to get a weapon wherein they can kill someone, whether that's a gun or a knife or a car or a shiv or whatever.

What I'm interested in is preventing the general public from being able to obtain weapons wherein they have a decided tactical advantage over literally everyone except the military, that is they walk in with a semi-automatic long rifle with a 30-round magazine, and even a law abiding citizen or LEO with a 15-round magazine handgun is at a decided disadvantage. Let's just start there.

There's a reason a good majority of mass shootings are executed with "assault rifles". It's not because they're cool or inherently evil. It's because they are the most effective weapons with which to conduct these types of killings. And there is no purpose for them other than killing people. Hunters don't need them. There is no argument for personal protection. And frankly the well-armed militia to protect against a tyrannical government is a ridiculous argument because TwinDegrees armed with an AR-15 isn't stopping the drone strike that's going to take him out anyway.

well you don't NEED your fancy car either. Let's take that away. You don't NEED your tv or 7 spray shower. Those are just wastes of resources. We don't NEED alcohol, that kills people all the time. Let's get rid of that freedom too while we're shitting on things. Let's get rid of all sugar. Obesity kills. However you are right about your scenario. He does have a tactical advantage. So if you want to put up a barrier to this, then carry. I guarantee if every person in that walmart is packing this guy runs out of balls and this doesn't happen. Maybe 1 on 1 a person is disadvantaged with a handgun but not 1 on 20. Why ignore that side of your tactical argument? you can DO SOMETHING!

 

[Bethboilerfan]

I think you are talking about insanity as a legal concept for an affirmative defense, rather than mental illness, and the related personality disorders. Those are significantly differing concepts.

Glad you made that point - insane is a legal defense not a psychological diagnosis. The idea that a”bat shit nut case” can overcome his psychological problems to plan and carry out a mass shooting is difficult to believe. I think perhaps, people are thinking of personality disorders or anxiety disorders?? Or maybe psychopaths??

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Exactly. I have yet to see one justification as to why a civilian should own a weapon like that.

well you don't NEED your fancy car either. Let's take that away. You don't NEED your tv or 7 spray shower. Those are just wastes of resources. We don't NEED alcohol, that kills people all the time. Let's get rid of that freedom too while we're shitting on things. Let's get rid of all sugar. Obesity kills. However you are right about your scenario. He does have a tactical advantage. So if you want to put up a barrier to this, then carry. I guarantee if every person in that walmart is packing this guy runs out of balls and this doesn't happen. Maybe 1 on 1 a person is disadvantaged with a handgun but not 1 on 20. Why ignore that side of your tactical argument? you can DO SOMETHING!

To the lib's that is not a valid discussion point. They'd rather take freedom's away (and no, Indy 35 I'm not supporting white supremists, Antifa, the Black Panthers, or any other whacked out group including the KKK-all seven remaining members) while making sure only their kind ever wins the White House again. When your ideology is such that you're totally intolerant of the other's idea's, nothing like carrying is tolerated in their discussion points.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

t

Glad you made that point - insane is a legal defense not a psychological diagnosis. The idea that a”bat shit nut case” can overcome his psychological problems to plan and carry out a mass shooting is difficult to believe. I think perhaps, people are thinking of personality disorders or anxiety disorders?? Or maybe psychopaths??

Aren't they all...in their own little way...bat shit crazy?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Telling SDBoiler to make a sound argument is telling a pig to do algebra. Not gonna happen.

You do realize your rhetoric and the way you say it, tends to push folks away from even considering your arguments, don't you?