Another white supremacist mass shooting

[70boiler]

70 - you're one of the only liberals (if not the only) I respect on here. I give the rest a bunch of crap because their posts on here deserve nothing less.

So what do you think the OP's motive was for posting about this subject? You and I both know he (along with the usual cast of characters) are making an issue out of this for political purposes. The same people blaming conservatives for the El Paso shooting are the very same people who tell us not to blame Muslims for the terrorist actions of Muslim extremists. I think we can agree their "concern" is very disingenuous.

And if their motive was truly about saving lives - why are none of them talking about issues that kill far more Americans than mass shootings? Far more people are killed by drunk drivers in this country. Distracted drivers (including phone use) kills 9 people every single day in this country. Why are there no threads about the thousands upon thousands of people who die so unnecessarily every year?

You and I both know its because the left wants to exploit these mass shootings deaths (and only when a conservative pulls the trigger) for political gain. If any of these jokers on here truly cared about saving the most human lives, they would be advocating for laws/technologies to save the thousands who are killed by people driving while impaired or using their phone.

At the end of the day - they don't care about the lives lost in El Paso. They only care about turning those deaths into democrat votes.

I would certainly agree that nearly all postings here have political motives of one sort or another and have no issue there.
I also try to avoid overplacing blame... I don't blame "plain old" Conservatives any more than Muslims for the violent actions of others, but certainly blame both Conservatives and Muslims who appear to me to be fostering violent behavior. There is a line between the two that is far from clear and where a person or group may fall on the spectrum of "plain old" and "fosterer" is in the eye of the beholder.
I also disagree with the propensity to compare apples and oranges issues, and acknowledge that I slip into it.
I think, or at least hope, that everyone on here abhors the violence being inflicted upon ourselves so regularly.
Again, personally to me, I see no benefit nor logic in conflating DUI and related reckless behavior (that admittedly causes far, far too much misery) with non-politically (not party politics but true ideological politics) motivated shootings (whether gang, drug, turf, crime or personal based) let alone the more obviously distinguishable politically motivated "hate crimes", nor the two types of shootings with each other.
Problems all, but different problems. Salmonella, syphilis and cancer are all health problems and may have some interrelationships but I would be hard pressed to put them into a terribly rational single conversation of any value.

 

[70boiler]

Since I’m obviously not one of the people you like on here, I’ll keep my response to this completely stupid and moronic post short and sweet: go fukk yourself, hunk.

Lmao, points for brevity and directness!

 

[PurdueFan1]

Since I’m obviously not one of the people you like on here, I’ll keep my response to this completely stupid and moronic post short and sweet: go fukk yourself, hunk.

Lmao, points for brevity and directness!

Lol, I wanted there to be no doubt as to how I feel about what he said.

 

[indy35]

 

[ComradeRedBoilermaker]

White supremacist terrorism is orders of magnitude more dangerous and more common to Americans than Islamic terrorism. The media only treats one as actual terrorism

Literally the only reason the media and the government will not condemn white supremacy and white supremacist terrorism is because the ideology of the terrorists too closely resembles the ideology of the Republican Party, and they don’t want to be seen as partisan.

Cowards.

 

[ComradeRedBoilermaker]

https://i.redd.it/l3bkj4abage31.png

But we pretend like we have no idea why this keeps happening.

We know who is causing these shootings, and they must be held accountable

 

[indy35]

https://i.redd.it/l3bkj4abage31.png

But we pretend like we have no idea why this keeps happening.

We know who is causing these shootings, and they must be held accountable

Yep, can’t imagine why this guy thought the country was being invaded by immigrants. Fox News and many right wing politicians have blood on their hands.

 

[lbodel]

Yep, can’t imagine why this guy thought the country was being invaded by immigrants. Fox News and many right wing politicians have blood on their hands.

Trump is now being caught deleting tweets that mention "invasion".

 

[TwinDegrees2]

20 dead.

It’s time for the right wing to take a serious look inward and dial back the rhetoric.
Apparently he was worried about the Hispanic invasion of Texas. Who knows where he got that idea, maybe he watched Fox News for 10 minutes or followed a TX Senator on Twitter.

View embedded media

Indy, please...take the politics out of this. This individual was mentally ill, just as you or I would be if we did this dastardly deed. No sane person would do such a horrific thing to his/her fellow man.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Yep, can’t imagine why this guy thought the country was being invaded by immigrants. Fox News and many right wing politicians have blood on their hands.

No one has blood on their hand other than the shooter. Let's at least be honest.

 

[PurdueFan1]

20 dead.

It’s time for the right wing to take a serious look inward and dial back the rhetoric.
Apparently he was worried about the Hispanic invasion of Texas. Who knows where he got that idea, maybe he watched Fox News for 10 minutes or followed a TX Senator on Twitter.

View embedded media

Indy, please...take the politics out of this. This individual was mentally ill, just as you or I would be if we did this dastardly deed. No sane person would do such a horrific thing to his/her fellow man.

Let me flip the question: if the shooter was Muslim, would be saying the same thing? Did you consider the Boston bombers mentally ill?

I’m genuinely curious. I want to see if you apply the same standards across the board. Not just to the white men doing most of the killing.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

vzs

What in God's name causes so many Trump supporters to have an inability to recognize that these things are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to discuss them singularly oretin concert with each other. That being said, they are two entirely different matters with obvious overlays of involvement.

0

70, though you and I don't agree on a lot, as Hunk said you're a bit more sensible than some of the others on here. Yesterday and today I went to Columbus Ohio for an adult nephew's birthday party and was shocked when I heard about both shootings this morning. Had a lot of discussion this morning over breakfast at Bob Evans with family and friends regarding the cause of these shootings, and everyone from nurses, to firemen, to engineers, to business folks...white, black, old and young. democrats, repubs/moderates...chimed in around the causes and how to fix it. No one thought banning guns is the answer because if a whack job wants to kill someone, or multiple someone's, he can find a way. Most of us agreed that the main causes are...the one's doing it are mentally ill and years ago would have most likely been institutionalized, but 90% put a lot of blame on social media, which I tend to agree with both....especially the part about being institutionalized. The media...Fox, CNN, ABC...all of them were also taking a lot of the blame.

First thing I'm for is a rigerous background check, with any negative or suspiciious findings being placed in a nation wide data base, and if you want to call it profiling so be it. If profiling stops one of these mass shootings, or a kinfe attack, then profile the hell out of it.

But since we can't profile any more, and knowing banning guns isn't the answer (and though I have several guns and I support the right, I'm not a fan of so called assault rifles), from the left side what are your unbiased thoughts on what are the causes and how it gets fixed?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Let me flip the question: if the shooter was Muslim, would be saying the same thing? Did you consider the Boston bombers mentally ill?

I’m genuinely curious. I want to see if you apply the same standards across the board. Not just to the white men doing most of the killing.

First, let's get off the white/black thing...it makes you look like a total racist. And yes, I've always said that anyone who would do such a thing is crazier than undiluted bat shit. No sane person is going to kill for the sake of killing....they have to be nuts.

If I'm honest (which I am), and the shooter were muslim, my first thought might be he/she's a terrorist.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Let me flip the question: if the shooter was Muslim, would be saying the same thing? Did you consider the Boston bombers mentally ill?

I’m genuinely curious. I want to see if you apply the same standards across the board. Not just to the white men doing most of the killing.

First, let's get off the white/black thing...it makes you look like a total racist. And yes, I've always said that anyone who would do such a thing is crazier than undiluted bat shit. No sane person is going to kill for the sake of killing....they have to be nuts.

If I'm honest (which I am), and the shooter were muslim, my first thought might be he/she's a terrorist.

Fair enough. I know you won’t believe me, but I respect your thoughts here. I don’t fully agree with them but i do respect them. I say not fully because while sure, anyone who does these types of things has to be crazy of course, but it’s the things that cause the craziness that concern me more. That’s where I think you and I may veer a bit.

However, I’m confused as to why you’d call the Boston bombings terrorism but won’t say the same thing at least about the El Paso shooting. Both instances were rooted in hatred against someone different than what they believe. So how is what happened in El Paso not a terrorist act as well?

 

[lbodel]

vzs0

70, though you and I don't agree on a lot, as Hunk said you're a bit more sensible than some of the others on here. Yesterday and today I went to Columbus Ohio for an adult nephew's birthday party and was shocked when I heard about both shootings this morning. Had a lot of discussion this morning over breakfast at Bob Evans with family and friends regarding the cause of these shootings, and everyone from nurses, to firemen, to engineers, to business folks...white, black, old and young. democrats, repubs/moderates...chimed in around the causes and how to fix it. No one thought banning guns is the answer because if a whack job wants to kill someone, or multiple someone's, he can find a way. Most of us agreed that the main causes are...the one's doing it are mentally ill and years ago would have most likely been institutionalized, but 90% put a lot of blame on social media, which I tend to agree with both....especially the part about being institutionalized. The media...Fox, CNN, ABC...all of them were also taking a lot of the blame.

First thing I'm for is a rigerous background check, with any negative or suspiciious findings being placed in a nation wide data base, and if you want to call it profiling so be it. If profiling stops one of these mass shootings, or a kinfe attack, then profile the hell out of it.

But since we can't profile any more, and knowing banning guns isn't the answer (and though I have several guns and I support the right, I'm not a fan of so called assault rifles), from the left side what are your unbiased thoughts on what are the causes and how it gets fixed?

So called assault rifles?

Like the one that killed 9 people and injured 27 in 30 seconds last night?

I don't think it's "so called", they are assault rifles. They have no business on the streets.

 

[PurdueFan1]

vzs

What in God's name causes so many Trump supporters to have an inability to recognize that these things are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to discuss them singularly oretin concert with each other. That being said, they are two entirely different matters with obvious overlays of involvement.

0

70, though you and I don't agree on a lot, as Hunk said you're a bit more sensible than some of the others on here. Yesterday and today I went to Columbus Ohio for an adult nephew's birthday party and was shocked when I heard about both shootings this morning. Had a lot of discussion this morning over breakfast at Bob Evans with family and friends regarding the cause of these shootings, and everyone from nurses, to firemen, to engineers, to business folks...white, black, old and young. democrats, repubs/moderates...chimed in around the causes and how to fix it. No one thought banning guns is the answer because if a whack job wants to kill someone, or multiple someone's, he can find a way. Most of us agreed that the main causes are...the one's doing it are mentally ill and years ago would have most likely been institutionalized, but 90% put a lot of blame on social media, which I tend to agree with both....especially the part about being institutionalized. The media...Fox, CNN, ABC...all of them were also taking a lot of the blame.

First thing I'm for is a rigerous background check, with any negative or suspiciious findings being placed in a nation wide data base, and if you want to call it profiling so be it. If profiling stops one of these mass shootings, or a kinfe attack, then profile the hell out of it.

But since we can't profile any more, and knowing banning guns isn't the answer (and though I have several guns and I support the right, I'm not a fan of so called assault rifles), from the left side what are your unbiased thoughts on what are the causes and how it gets fixed?

Well I’m not 70 but I’ll chime in here too (lol). I’m for gun ownership but getting to own that gun should be far harder than buying a house, a car, etc. It should be one of the most difficult items a person is able to obtain.

So if that means doing something like you suggest, I’m all for it. And if it’s called profiling, oh well. Fukk everyone’s feelings on that. And fukk anyone who cries about the second amendment. That was written when there were muskets.

Lawmakers, on both sides, have been utterly complacent on this issue for far too long. They are worried about losing their base. Well I think if they put a true bipartisan effort to this, their bases would ultimately be fine because both sides worked together (also the NRA can get fukked ).

None of the above seems unreasonable but for some reason we can’t past thoughts and prayers

 

[BuilderBob6]

By most definitions, terrorism is political.

I think some people believe a white man is incapable of terrorism.......but the desire for political change is not race specific.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Fair enough. I know you won’t believe me, but I respect your thoughts here. I don’t fully agree with them but i do respect them. I say not fully because while sure, anyone who does these types of things has to be crazy of course, but it’s the things that cause the craziness that concern me more. That’s where I think you and I may veer a bit.

However, I’m confused as to why you’d call the Boston bombings terrorism but won’t say the same thing at least about the El Paso shooting. Both instances were rooted in hatred against someone different than what they believe. So how is what happened in El Paso not a terrorist act as well?

The Boston bombings were the result of a religious ideology. To a degree, I'd say they're both similar, but still different. The Texas shootings were based on someone being crazy, which caused them to do what they did.

 

[indy35]

Indy, please...take the politics out of this. This individual was mentally ill, just as you or I would be if we did this dastardly deed. No sane person would do such a horrific thing to his/her fellow man.

You don’t get to take politics out of this. The shooter made a political killing and he got the ideas right out of the standard right wing playbook. You can’t use all the rhetoric and then feign total innocence when someone puts the propaganda to action.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

By most definitions, terrorism is political.

I think some people believe a white man is incapable of terrorism.......but the desire for political change is not race specific.

Being mentally ill is not race, nor gender specific either Bob. I know of no one who believes what you stated except you.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

So called assault rifles?

Like the one that killed 9 people and injured 27 in 30 seconds last night?

I don't think it's "so called", they are assault rifles. They have no business on the streets.

The "assault rifle" killed no one. Just like pie and cookies don't cause diabetes. Sorry, but that is a fact. A crazy son of a bitch pulling that trigger is what caused it.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

You don’t get to take politics out of this. The shooter made a political killing and he got the ideas right out of the standard right wing playbook. You can’t use all the rhetoric and then feign total innocence when someone puts the propaganda to action.

You are so one sided and so biased you couldn't walk in a forest and see trees. Where did the Democrat Dayton shooter get his from?

 

[PurdueFan1]

Fair enough. I know you won’t believe me, but I respect your thoughts here. I don’t fully agree with them but i do respect them. I say not fully because while sure, anyone who does these types of things has to be crazy of course, but it’s the things that cause the craziness that concern me more. That’s where I think you and I may veer a bit.

However, I’m confused as to why you’d call the Boston bombings terrorism but won’t say the same thing at least about the El Paso shooting. Both instances were rooted in hatred against someone different than what they believe. So how is what happened in El Paso not a terrorist act as well?

The Boston bombings were the result of a religious ideology. To a degree, I'd say they're both similar, but still different. The Texas shootings were based on someone being crazy, which caused them to do what they did.

Well the feds disagree because it’s being treated as a domestic terrorism case.

And I respectfully disagree with you as well because as you said, both instances were rooted in hatred. The methods were different, sure, but not the reason or intent.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Well I’m not 70 but I’ll chime in here too (lol). I’m for gun ownership but getting to own that gun should be far harder than buying a house, a car, etc. It should be one of the most difficult items a person is able to obtain.

So if that means doing something like you suggest, I’m all for it. And if it’s called profiling, oh well. Fukk everyone’s feelings on that. And fukk anyone who cries about the second amendment. That was written when there were muskets.

Lawmakers, on both sides, have been utterly complacent on this issue for far too long. They are worried about losing their base. Well I think if they put a true bipartisan effort to this, their bases would ultimately be fine because both sides worked together (also the NRA can get fukked ).

None of the above seems unreasonable but for some reason we can’t past thoughts and prayers

So let me ask a follow up....people kill people every day in cars. Do we need a stronger test? Can't drive until 40? And what about having kids...who get shaken to death by immature dumbass dads?

 

[PurdueFan1]

Well I’m not 70 but I’ll chime in here too (lol). I’m for gun ownership but getting to own that gun should be far harder than buying a house, a car, etc. It should be one of the most difficult items a person is able to obtain.

So if that means doing something like you suggest, I’m all for it. And if it’s called profiling, oh well. Fukk everyone’s feelings on that. And fukk anyone who cries about the second amendment. That was written when there were muskets.

Lawmakers, on both sides, have been utterly complacent on this issue for far too long. They are worried about losing their base. Well I think if they put a true bipartisan effort to this, their bases would ultimately be fine because both sides worked together (also the NRA can get fukked ).

None of the above seems unreasonable but for some reason we can’t past thoughts and prayers

So let me ask a follow up....people kill people every day in cars. Do we need a stronger test? Can't drive until 40? And what about having kids...who get shaken to death by immature dumbass dads?

Well first, we are talking about guns. Second, there are all sorts of rules in place to make cars safer. There are things like child protective services to help protect kids. Obviously things in those areas can still vastly be improved. But nothing is being done for guns. I think we are on the same page here bit I’m not sure if you’re just being rhetorical or not

 

[indy35]

You are so one sided and so biased you couldn't walk in a forest and see trees. Where did the Democrat Dayton shooter get his from?

You’re trying to make excuse after excuse for a mass killing. This guy believed the words of Trump, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, etc. He told everyone why he did it and the reasoning was straight out of Fox News programming. You have to be one sick individual to try to excuse this away because you don’t want to look at what the Republican Party is doing.

 

[indy35]

Being mentally ill is not race, nor gender specific either Bob. I know of no one who believes what you stated except you.

White supremacy is not a mental illness, it’s a choice someone makes. We’ve seen Republican politicians fan those flames and it’s resulting in stuff like this.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Well first, we are talking about guns. Second, there are all sorts of rules in place to make cars safer. There are things like child protective services to help protect kids. Obviously things in those areas can still vastly be improved. But nothing is being done for guns. I think we are on the same page here bit I’m not sure if you’re just being rhetorical or not

You know, I've hunted and owned guns since I was 8...used to hunt after school on the farm. Love to shoot clays, targets....and believe it better to have a gun and not need it than to need it and not have it. And yes, I agree we're more on the same page on this than different. Only in the past four or five years have I started keeping one with me all of the time. It's time to do something about mentally ill folks gettting these weapons, and if it's time to profile folks, I have nothing to hide so start with me first.

True story, I do business in Dayton with a guy who's become a great friend and associate. I texted him this morning with well wishes and prayers that his family was not involved. He texted me back and said he and his wife were getting ready to board a cruise in Fla., and that his daughter had just left the building where the shooting occured minutes before. Needless to say, his cruise wasn't the only thing on his mind.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

White supremacy is not a mental illness, it’s a choice someone makes. We’ve seen Republican politicians fan those flames and it’s resulting in stuff like this.

Sort of like Black Panthers? Antifa who uses ball bats to beat the shit out of innocent folks? Do they make "choices" to be haters and idiots? And why have you not condemned their actions.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

You’re trying to make excuse after excuse for a mass killing. This guy believed the words of Trump, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, etc. He told everyone why he did it and the reasoning was straight out of Fox News programming. You have to be one sick individual to try to excuse this away because you don’t want to look at what the Republican Party is doing.

Give me a fuking break. You can't be that stupid.

 

[indy35]

Sort of like Black Panthers? Antifa who uses ball bats to beat the shit out of innocent folks? Do they make "choices" to be haters and idiots? And why have you not condemned their actions.

How many people has Antifa killed? The answer is zero. Now do white supremacists. You are a complete pos.

This will get hammered home non-stop and it should. Hating on minorities was all fun and games for some, until a deplorable decided to put the words into action.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Well first, we are talking about guns. Second, there are all sorts of rules in place to make cars safer. There are things like child protective services to help protect kids. Obviously things in those areas can still vastly be improved. But nothing is being done for guns. I think we are on the same page here bit I’m not sure if you’re just being rhetorical or not

You know, I've hunted and owned guns since I was 8...used to hunt after school on the farm. Love to shoot clays, targets....and believe it better to have a gun and not need it than to need it and not have it. And yes, I agree we're more on the same page on this than different. Only in the past four or five years have I started keeping one with me all of the time. It's time to do something about mentally ill folks gettting these weapons, and if it's time to profile folks, I have nothing to hide so start with me first.

True story, I do business in Dayton with a guy who's become a great friend and associate. I texted him this morning with well wishes and prayers that his family was not involved. He texted me back and said he and his wife were getting ready to board a cruise in Fla., and that his daughter had just left the building where the shooting occured minutes before. Needless to say, his cruise wasn't the only thing on his mind.

I’m very glad your friend and his family are safe. I don’t want to try and imagine what they went through emotionally.

You and I are clearly not going to agree on the mentally ill aspect of these things. What happened in Texas was terrorism.

But I’ll spin it around. If this is all mentally ill people, then why do you support a president and administration who want to gut Obamacare with no replacement plan, which would deny mental health treatment for folks who need it, such as, in your mind, another mass shooter. One would think that a priority in your world would be easy access to every ounce of mental help a person could want or need, no?

 

[indy35]

Give me a fuking break. You can't be that stupid.

Truth hurts. The shooter’s manifesto is indistinguishable from any Fox News host’s monologue. You’ve shown again and again what a mental midget you are, barely able to function. How many examples do you need to see of right wingers talking about immigrants invading our country? This guy drove for hours specifically to El Paso so he could shoot immigrants he thought were invading the country. You can not be this stupid, it’ll hurt to step out of the right wing bubble, but be a decent person and try.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Being mentally ill is not race, nor gender specific either Bob. I know of no one who believes what you stated except you.

lol. YOU believe a white American can't commit terrorism.......he has to be mentally ill right?
But a Muslim, that's a different story. It's got to be terrorism.

That about cover it......you unbelievably close minded American white man?

 

[doubleyous]

The Boston bombings were the result of a religious ideology. To a degree, I'd say they're both similar, but still different. The Texas shootings were based on someone being crazy, which caused them to do what they did.

Oh, so the Texas massacre was the act of a( legally) "crazy" person, huh ?? You might want to hustle on down to El Paso and castigate the Prosecutor's Office, who have already mentioned that this mass murder will be a CAPITAL charge (one in which the death penalty will be involved). You need to advise that office that they're wasting their time and resources pursuing these charges, given that the CRAZY accused, of course, will be unable to be indicted due to his lack of sanity. Tell us something, Twin.....does a place called Oklahoma City ring a bell ?? Do you recall someone named Timothy McVeigh ?? Wouldn't someone who murdered 160 people (incl. 19 children) and wounded 500 more be another guy that you found crazy ?? You might wanna re-visit that legal proceeding and tell us all just how "crazy" the federal court found him, considering that that piece of human garbage wound up getting the needle in his arm over in Terre Haute.

Just a wild guess: neither of your 2 degrees is a doctor of jurisprudence.
Wild guess.

 

[lbodel]

The Boston bombings were the result of a religious ideology. To a degree, I'd say they're both similar, but still different. The Texas shootings were based on someone being crazy, which caused them to do what they did.

You are one dedicated person to the talking points.

So someone who kills a bunch of people because of religious ideology is a terrorist. But someone who kills a bunch of people because of political ideology is mentally ill. What the hell is the difference?

He knew exactly what he was doing, drove 9 hours to do it, and wrote a very clearly worded document about why he was doing it.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Fair enough. I know you won’t believe me, but I respect your thoughts here. I don’t fully agree with them but i do respect them. I say not fully because while sure, anyone who does these types of things has to be crazy of course, but it’s the things that cause the craziness that concern me more. That’s where I think you and I may veer a bit.

However, I’m confused as to why you’d call the Boston bombings terrorism but won’t say the same thing at least about the El Paso shooting. Both instances were rooted in hatred against someone different than what they believe. So how is what happened in El Paso not a terrorist act as well?

The Boston bombing, the shooting in Orlando, the El Paso shooting, and the Dayton shooting were ALL terroristic acts. And they were all perpetrated by mentally deranged lunatics.

 

[doubleyous]

The Boston bombing, the shooting in Orlando, the El Paso shooting, and the Dayton shooting were ALL terroristic acts. And they were all perpetrated by mentally deranged lunatics.

As I mentioned to hunk - do you think that the El Paso shooter will face charges, or, due to his "mental derangement " as you put it, be found incompetent to stand trial ??

 

[SDBoiler1]

As I mentioned to hunk - do you think that the El Paso shooter will face charges, or, due to his "mental derangement " as you put it, be found incompetent to stand trial ??

He will get the death penalty. They will find a way to say he is competent to stand trial. This is Texas, you know.....

 

[doubleyous]

He will get the death penalty. They will find a way to say he is competent to stand trial. This is Texas, you know.....

In an affirmative insanity defense on behalf of the defendant, it might take top-tier work by the prosecution to prevail at the hearings, Texas or not. Let's hope they're up to the task.