Marcus Carr is exactly what we DON’T need on this year’s team. That guy is a chemistry disaster.
Another Guard…
- Thread starter BoilerDeac
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So, of that group I mentioned, who is the go to player who can go get his own shot and get a tough bucket in crunch time?
IT? No
Morton? Maybe, but hasn't shown that yet
Newman? No
Loyer? doubtful, possible redshirt
Smith? 5'10, 165 freshman. Very doubtful.
If you can't see that outisde of Ivey, there's a glaring weakness of ball handling (I'm not talking about feeding the post) at the guard position, then I don't know what to tell you.
Carr would have started from Day 1 next to Ivey. That would be the best backcourt in the country.
This. There is no way shape or form CMP is going to go through the experience of another RJ. We don't need another guard. We're #1 in the country so that alone says the team is solid and the pieces we need are already there.
Tell me you haven't watched film of Loyer without telling me you haven't watched film.
Our biggest problem right now is stupid turnovers. That kept Iowa in the game more than anything else and that was more mental lapses than ability.
All of this to me sounds like you are trying to make a problem that doesn't exist based off of one game. Painter I have little doubt knows what he needs to do to correct it as he has done so often in the past.
I just addressed this in the other thread where you are harping and carping about things that will not improve this team. You don't seem to be getting the answers you want from the people here, so you keep asking, hoping you'll get the answer you want. So let's try this. The biggest thing this team is missing is Shaka Smart. There. Happy?
Yet Carr is a career 33.6% three point shooter. I agree that he is more talented, but I am not convinced that he would be a better fit for this team than IT. He is a ball dominant player and that is not what this team needs. Maybe he would adapt to the role that Painter wants him to play, but maybe not.
wow - that was a heck of a callback.....had to look it up to believe it
I don't remember what you said. You just have a very irrational fear about saying anything negative. Perhaps you fear that through some sort of weird karma, that negative thoughts will translate to the court?
My position is that Carr is the kind of guard who's very good with the ball in his hands. He creates issues with his ability to penetrate, break down the D, get his own shot, etc.
Outside of Ivey, this team doesn't have that and I see that as their biggest weakness.
I think that was evident vs Iowa when IT and EH really struggled to break the press and for some reason, Painter didn't trust Morton.
I think press breaking is a separate issue. It was much more Hunter out there, because IT was hurt, but Hunter’s teammates left him on an island. This team will handle the press much better in the rematch.
IT was also hurt if remember right. So there is an outlier to your example. Your comment is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
Nope. The weaknesses I pointed out were fairly obvious and did not involve some delusional wish for a player that isn't on the roster. Do you really think that your wishing for another Jaden Ivey on this team will come true?
I can agree - the teams that make deep tournament runs and win titles have dynamic guards who can get a bucket when everything is falling apart. Ivey has proven to be that guy for us.
Does Marcus Carr have that ability? Yes. Would he fit in our system? Maybe but not with Ivey.
The challenge is balancing those things in a lineup for an entire season. Look at Memphis - according to the stars on their roster, they should be winning every game by double digits, except Emoni Bates is trying to fight their fans and going 1-10 coming off the bench.
Bonefish said the below. What exactly here do you disagree with? I think he's spot on.
We've got the guy I wanted (Ivey) and have another coming in Colvin. What we don't have is a solid #2 scoring guard who can take over and do some things Ivey does (dribble penetrate, break down the D, get into the lane, finish) but obviously not at the Ivey level. We've got guards who can shoot the 3 well but no one who's going to create problems for the D off the bounce.
And what exactly do you think causes those turnovers?
Sure, some were just a product of stupid passes, and Purdue can definitely fix many of those, but others are a result of the inability to create or have that dynamic element to escape pressure.
Anybody who has played basketball knows that when you lack that next gear/level of athleticism, you're easier to press and force into stupid turnovers.
Based on watching the game, bad decisions, being 'too cute' with the passing as Painter even pointed out, or players leaving the person bringing up the ball hanging. Which none are due to not having another guard.
And I got all of that just from watching the game and listening to what Painter described since you know, he knows more than any of us on here.
You all are basing things off one game that if I listened to you, I would swear we lost and are subsequently not the number one team in the country.
Painter just addressed that.
Judging by his comments, he didn't attribute it to a lack of athleticism.
But why stop there? Sure, who would disagree with adding another Jaden Ivey to the team? Next, how about a Zach Edey with a 40" verticle who can step out and hit 3-pointers? And next, how about an agressive GRob-like wing forward? We don't have any of those players. If we only had them, we would have a much better team.
Maybe people should identify when they are talking about Fantasy Basketball (OT) so that there is no confusion that they aren't realistically talking about what would improve this Purdue team.
Addendum: In your original posts, you stated that the other guards "need to step up." I agree 100%. But that's a lot different from "we don't have the player that can fix this team." If anyone really believes that, then why would you spend another season harping about it. No hobbies?
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It's funny. My 9 & 10 year old team got destroyed by a press this weekend, so yesterday in practice we were working on both how to press as well as break it. I kept thinking in the back of my mind that these Pudue players have known how to break a press for 10 years of their life and still didn't do it perfectly. My team has no hope!
I've watched highlights of Loyer. Want to know my opinion?
Let's just say I like Hiede a lot more.
I agree that chemistry is very important, but if Painter can convince an All-American and 2 year starter to come off the bench and be happy, I think he could convince a guard like Carr that there's plenty of shots to go around.
We blew a 19 pt lead with under 10 minutes left because we couldn't figure out the press. If that's not concerning, then maybe nothing concerns you.
Do you remember what would happen when teams tried to press us with Carsen? He blew by everyone and caused all sorts of problems. Ivey does the same thing. I'll be very surprised if we don't see more teams trying to press Purdue and make our guards not named Ivey control the pace.
I don't think IT, Hunter, and Morton and suddenly going to become better ball handlers, faster, more athletic. They're at their max.
While I'm thinking about it, didn't we lose a scrimmage to WVU this summer and didn't Painter organize that so he could face the kind of press D WVU runs? It would be interesting to see the film and see if the same thing happened in the scrimmage.
I am sure it is a challenge because you bring in a bad egg and all that chemistry is gone.
I do agree that Heide could be a day one impact type player. Be curious to see how the summer plays out and if he can earn time. Assuming he is billed as a 2/3?
you don't blow a lead you didn't work your ass off to get in the first place.
I've never understood that really ridiculous line of thinking.
Why did Iowa roll over and hand that lead to us in the first place?? (Yeah... it doesn't work that way.)
That was in both 2016 and 2017. Painter specifically scheduled the scrimmages with WVU after Purdue lost games due to poor response to the press. Purdue lost the scrimmage in 2016 but won in 2017. Painter changed his approach to attacking the press and the problem went away -- until last week. Teams even stopped using it against Purdue, so Iowa seemed to catch them by surprise.
This year Purdue played Providence.
It seems the goal post has gone from saying we need another guy who can get his own shot this year (we don't) to what about next year ( a concern).
Painters offense starts with a post presence surrounded by shooters. I'm not sure how fans haven't figured this out by now. Having the best slasher/finisher at the rim in college basketball is a great luxury. If Painter thought it was essential to have that element on the court at all times, he'd start by playing Ivey more minutes. He's only averaging 27.5 minutes per game. For reference Carsen Edwards averaged over 35 minutes his Jr year.
Anyway, I'll take a guy who can hit a good shot in the offense over a guy who tries to create his own shot. I actually think that is what has been so impressive about Ivey this year. He's been pretty good at being selectively aggressive on offense.
Painters offense starts with a post presence surrounded by shooters. I'm not sure how fans haven't figured this out by now. Having the best slasher/finisher at the rim in college basketball is a great luxury. If Painter thought it was essential to have that element on the court at all times, he'd start by playing Ivey more minutes. He's only averaging 27.5 minutes per game. For reference Carsen Edwards averaged over 35 minutes his Jr year.
Anyway, I'll take a guy who can hit a good shot in the offense over a guy who tries to create his own shot. I actually think that is what has been so impressive about Ivey this year. He's been pretty good at being selectively aggressive on offense.
Purdue’s turnovers this year were lowest this year against UNC and Villanova, I believe because they played with better focus in those games. In every other game, even Iowa, Purdue built a big lead. Turnovers were highest against Wright State, a team that Purdue completely overmatched and blew out. Most of the turnovers this season are preventable if the players make the simple play and help each other out.
Carr was legitimately one of the worst players in the big ten last year. Against bottom of the barrel competition this year he's incredibly been worse. Him on this team would be an absolute disaster.
I think he was either first team or second team all BIG. Thanks anyway.
The issue I with him is his inability to stick with one team. He doesn't seem to connect with his teammates and keeps floating from one team to another.
Sorry, his issue is he's bad at basketball. My only explanation for his all-B1G honors is collective hypnosis or blackmail of the voters. He shot 39% from 2, 30% from 3, with a usage rate between Edey and Kofi. Meanwhile he's a horrible defender, subpar rebounder, and honestly looks like Nojel Eastern out there.
The excuse last year was he was surrounded by a bad roster but this year he's surrounded by actual talent and Texas has played among the worst schedules in d1 and he's been similarly awful.
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