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Anderson has MAJOR outbreak of virus

A VERY tough question, as I am sure you realize.

I don't think they can open it until they get "some" pockets of containment. (ie new cases in an area down significantly - like 85%) Given their undisciplined approach, I believe our President will eventually just force it open and we will see a 2nd wave that could be just as bad.

IF they are smart, they will try to open it slowly, a few businesses at a time and will create a team of "process" experts to help each business open. They will need to sanitize the environment (remember the cruise ship that still had live virus on surfaces after 2 weeks?), change operating procedures, etc.. to maintain social distancing, minimize viral transfer and potentially address ventilation issues. I also do not see how they can do it before we have surgical masks for each of the workers and quick testing available to each community. If we do, we will be playing Russian roulette.

Believe me when I say this . . I know this kind of approach sounds CRAZY to people, but my rebuttal is . . . how else will you know that people walking through the front door don't have the virus and can't spread it?? It's QUITE contagiuous. It "IS" first and foremost an issue of detection/testing, containment and process controls. We didn't focus on these 3 areas the first time, so without divine intervention or a vaccine, it won't work the 2nd time unless we do.

We have to start "thinking" in terms of Ebola - this thing will mutate and "could" be more deadlier. We have to get "ahead" of the crisis and start planning proactively on what "could' come next versus reacting to things.

I will also add an element of "change management" into the discussion. People need to realize that the general public will only give you a few chances to get it right before some will panic and start taking things into their own hands. If violence happens, everything gets worse.

I also know from years of change management training that it is exponentially more difficult to do things the 2nd or 3rd time if you fail the first time. Think about that. What will people do if they no longer believe anything they are told.
It is a most difficult question with probably the most difficult answer in the history of our country. Appreciate your candid response.

No matter what decision is made it will be questioned by half the country. Only time will tell if it was the correct decision. Even then many will debate it as most certainly after the country is opened up more cases and deaths will occur.

Many will question the economy as being destroyed versus others with potential loss of life. One pitted against the other is a no win for the decision maker. I have no idea as of today what is a correct answer.
 
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Relative to healthcare workers… Spoke with daughter last night and she has two people she worked with that left this morning from Maryland to New Jersey and Detroit. I think the places reached out for people familiar with anesthesia and obviously ventilators. Said a normal ICU has one nurse to two patients and sometimes one to one, but in these locations I thought she said New Jersey was 10:1 and Detroit 25:1. Said they have used a typical beds/rooms used for ICUs without the monitors is what I understood the two ladies have told her. Also, said they were informed that if a person coded, not to resuscitate the person because the chance of long-term survival is not good. Not sure I like that answer… ☹ One of the ladies is 37 pregnant and has a 2 year old with a husband that is a policeman. Another sister sent me a video listed here concerning Bush talking about the situation today in 2005 and wanting 7 billion to address it. You can hear what he says, but no audio in-between some audio.


Thanks for the update ! This is just going to be so sad. I just hope these brave American heroes who are running toward the fire have the best PPE.
 
I checked less than two hours ago and there are 11 reported deaths in Madison County with 146 confirmed cases. Grant has 26 cases and 2 confirmed dead. Three counties are reporting 0 and 0. I've also read that many deaths being reported as CV related aren't.

Again, stay safe.
Where did you read many reported deaths are not cv related? Curious
It is a most difficult question with probably the most difficult answer in the history of our country. Appreciate your candid response.

No matter what decision is made it will be questioned by half the country. Only time will tell if it was the correct decision. Even then many will debate it as most certainly after the country is opened up more cases and deaths will occur.

Many will question the economy as being destroyed versus others with potential loss of life. One pitted against the other is a no win for the decision maker. I have no idea as of today what is a correct answer.
You are correct, it is a very difficult decision. The best way to help make it would be to get as much correct data as we can possibly get. The only way to accurately track this is to test as much as we possibly can.
 
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It is a most difficult question with probably the most difficult answer in the history of our country. Appreciate your candid response.

No matter what decision is made it will be questioned by half the country. Only time will tell if it was the correct decision. Even then many will debate it as most certainly after the country is opened up more cases and deaths will occur.

Many will question the economy as being destroyed versus others with potential loss of life. One pitted against the other is a no win for the decision maker. I have no idea as of today what is a correct answer.

Thanks ! I am surprised they aren't doing more to inspect and give commercial support to our service businesses right now. I think that could be an initial step in the right direction. (ie have someone inspect the business, make sure the cooking areas and processes they use are clean and then help them put commercials on TV which show the cooks with masks and gloves on, the processes they need, highlight no cases have been associated with deliveries, etc.. and that they have been "certified" by local or state inspection folks. While I know we don't have these kind of inspection groups, I think if they established them it would add a lot of credibility and reassurance to people to order food, etc.. from these businesses. We simply have to figure out how to get some people back to work in a safe manner so the country can afford to support the others - Trillions in debt is adding up with each new support bill.

However, those workers need to understand that they "can't" take risks outside of work ! If they do and get infected the public confidence in food service will be lost !

If we can do that, we should start working with industrial businesses. (by bringing back critical aspects first, then splitting people over 3 shifts to spread them out, etc.. Having people go to restaurants, etc.. will be one of the last.
 
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Thanks for the update ! This is just going to be so sad. I just hope these brave American heroes who are running toward the fire have the best PPE.
I am working from home, but talked to a counter part a bit ago and if it were not for actually having less ventilators manufactured I would LOVE to see Ventec/GM explain to Trump why they are a bit slow to ramp up. I’m reminded of the rigidity of an archaic Napoleon battle formation when special forces are needed as the blob grows. Mind numbing protocol makes it difficult to go on…
 
No Indy, that was from the Indiana CV site. You're starting to really go off that deep end. I'm worried about you.
Let's see it Twin. I saw that Candice Owens and the like were spreading that falsehood, let's see Indiana's official response that deaths are being inflated by false reporting.
 
It is a most difficult question with probably the most difficult answer in the history of our country. Appreciate your candid response.

No matter what decision is made it will be questioned by half the country. Only time will tell if it was the correct decision. Even then many will debate it as most certainly after the country is opened up more cases and deaths will occur.

Many will question the economy as being destroyed versus others with potential loss of life. One pitted against the other is a no win for the decision maker. I have no idea as of today what is a correct answer.

Good or bad, I am already biased on your last question. We simply HAVE to error on the side of HEALTH. Even if we only lose tens of thousands of lives, how many others are going to have permanent damage to their lungs and potentially hearts. Can you imagine the future bill the country will pay on that? This is like chemical warfare
 
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I am working from home, but talked to a counter part a bit ago and if it were not for actually having less ventilators manufactured I would LOVE to see Ventec/GM explain to Trump why they are a bit slow to ramp up. I’m reminded of the rigidity of an archaic Napoleon battle formation when special forces are needed as the blob grows. Mind numbing protocol makes it difficult to go on…
TJ, I wonder if part of it is a lack of workers. I know they want to hire a 1000 workers, and my question to GM is "Why not bring back the temps they let go, including all at the stamping plant in Marion and give them full time jobs.
 
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I am working from home, but talked to a counter part a bit ago and if it were not for actually having less ventilators manufactured I would LOVE to see Ventec/GM explain to Trump why they are a bit slow to ramp up. I’m reminded of the rigidity of an archaic Napoleon battle formation when special forces are needed as the blob grows. Mind numbing protocol makes it difficult to go on…

You are NOT alone ! This is a life and death issue ! I would LOVE to be the person going into that facility to "help them along" It's called "do it" or we will find someone who can ! Maybe they need better incentives, like your pay is tied to the number of good ventilators you get off that line.
 
Ah yes...that Democrap rote. No Indy, it's not and it's not worth even conversing with you about it. So sorry that your boy Bernie screwed the pooch for you.
Once again you said something utterly false because you listened to right wing propaganda and now that you have to back up your words, you're floundering.
 
TJ, I wonder if part of it is a lack of workers. I know they want to hire a 1000 workers, and my question to GM is "Why not bring back the temps they let go, including all at the stamping plant in Marion and give them full time jobs.

I think that could be a good first step.

I am also sure that there are a number of people on disability which could work part-time jobs (10-20 hours a week) and would LOVE to, but the way the current system is structured they can't afford to try - because they would risk their current support.

I think the government should establish a program for disability folks that says: 1.) You keep your current disability/ healthcare & 2.) Anything you make part-time will be split with the government (50% tax on part-time income) That would give them an incentive to better their financial lives without risking their healthcare or support payments, while allowing the government the chance to recoup some of those support costs. (ie Win / win !) We will need creative minds in our future leaders or our country will literally go broke
 
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Folks: Please "try" to avoid the personal attacks. I know it's tough - I am no saint either. I understand the reasons for the different camps of thinking, this is a time to see if Boilers can get along and think our way through these things and at the very least, share info. which we have that could help other Boilers prepare and stay safe.
 
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Good or bad, I am already biased on your last question. We simply HAVE to error on the side of HEALTH. Even if we only lose tens of thousands of lives, how many others are going to have permanent damage to their lungs and potentially hearts. Can you imagine the future bill the country will pay on that? This is like chemical warfare
Not only do I agree with what you posted, but humans need humans. How many will suffer depression or even more drug abuse? Having the country shut down is a health issue for virus limitation and other health issues along with economic destruction. Again I have no idea what is the right answer today.
 
TJ, I wonder if part of it is a lack of workers. I know they want to hire a 1000 workers, and my question to GM is "Why not bring back the temps they let go, including all at the stamping plant in Marion and give them full time jobs.
They are doing that in Kokomo and hiring new workers as well. I'm guessing they have worked with HR in nearby sites, but not being "in" I don't know that for certain. I think they plan on building 7 a shift per day next week and I'm sure that will increase. For starters, where my frustration aligns is Ventec not liking how the suppliers were chosen by GM and my boss trying to align procedures around what Ventec does in picking out suppliers with what GM did (I'm not pro GM here either). Machines will test product to ensure if it good and the mere fact that GM may have a different way than Ventec should NOT be the focus at this time. Different may be better since the kokomo site has the best quality in GM and can work with the "detroit sourcing" as needed. In a previous thread you mentioned PPAP, well Ventec is not automotive and so that doesn't exist in a similar fashion There is a time later when procedures can align and have written down what you are doing. Right now it should be all hands on deck in making as many good ventilators as possible and getting those lessons learned to increase productivity, but we have too many that can't do anything without a step by step direction...hence my reference to teh rigidity of Napoleon's battle formation instead of how the special forces would fight today. I just had a training class this morning, why, I can already bark...I mean we train dogs and educate people... ;) IN that class it made reference to two fighter jets F-15 & F22??? that had about 23 million lines of code written and compared it to the cadillac that has 123 million lines of code.

Certifications and audits drive a lot of manufacturing and "allowed easier transition to Chi Na" where uniform standardization to the lowest denominator is mandatory. Many courses talk about the ineffectiveness of visual inspection in lot sampling and yet that is what we do with audits and too many don't get it. Too many don't understand sampling whether variable or attribute in positions they should...all college grads and yet granted a leadership position due to being a "good follower" and expected to improvise as needed. No, it is the blob of inefficiency that is frustrating and would be much easier if I didn't give a $hit. In all fairness it is somewhat amazing I have not been fired over the years as I have certainly shared my thoughts and somehow managed to still be standing as the site went from around 16,000 people to 200 or so. Now, if I can just somehow get a severance package to leave...life would be good. ;)
 
You are NOT alone ! This is a life and death issue ! I would LOVE to be the person going into that facility to "help them along" It's called "do it" or we will find someone who can ! Maybe they need better incentives, like your pay is tied to the number of good ventilators you get off that line.
after the bankruptcy of Delphi and then GM with the "bailout" it was like stepping back in time going back to GM and seeing an even larger load of the blob. I'm not sure GM learned anything about the blob after the bailout. Too much politics and facades for themselves and not what is best for the company...

 
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after the bankruptcy of Delphi and then GM with the "bailout" it was like stepping back in time going back to GM and seeing an even larger load of the blob. I'm not sure GM learned anything about the blob after the bailout. Too much politics and facades for themselves and not what is best for the company...


I tend to agree. I visited a GM plant when on Deere's reengineering team for the Ag Tractors (ie doing some benchmarking) and I could see the politics and stuffiness in their management. Hard to believe that could be an effective model for creativity and progress
 
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They are doing that in Kokomo and hiring new workers as well. I'm guessing they have worked with HR in nearby sites, but not being "in" I don't know that for certain. I think they plan on building 7 a shift per day next week and I'm sure that will increase. For starters, where my frustration aligns is Ventec not liking how the suppliers were chosen by GM and my boss trying to align procedures around what Ventec does in picking out suppliers with what GM did (I'm not pro GM here either). Machines will test product to ensure if it good and the mere fact that GM may have a different way than Ventec should NOT be the focus at this time. Different may be better since the kokomo site has the best quality in GM and can work with the "detroit sourcing" as needed. In a previous thread you mentioned PPAP, well Ventec is not automotive and so that doesn't exist in a similar fashion There is a time later when procedures can align and have written down what you are doing. Right now it should be all hands on deck in making as many good ventilators as possible and getting those lessons learned to increase productivity, but we have too many that can't do anything without a step by step direction...hence my reference to teh rigidity of Napoleon's battle formation instead of how the special forces would fight today. I just had a training class this morning, why, I can already bark...I mean we train dogs and educate people... ;) IN that class it made reference to two fighter jets F-15 & F22??? that had about 23 million lines of code written and compared it to the cadillac that has 123 million lines of code.

Certifications and audits drive a lot of manufacturing and "allowed easier transition to Chi Na" where uniform standardization to the lowest denominator is mandatory. Many courses talk about the ineffectiveness of visual inspection in lot sampling and yet that is what we do with audits and too many don't get it. Too many don't understand sampling whether variable or attribute in positions they should...all college grads and yet granted a leadership position due to being a "good follower" and expected to improvise as needed. No, it is the blob of inefficiency that is frustrating and would be much easier if I didn't give a $hit. In all fairness it is somewhat amazing I have not been fired over the years as I have certainly shared my thoughts and somehow managed to still be standing as the site went from around 16,000 people to 200 or so. Now, if I can just somehow get a severance package to leave...life would be good. ;)
TJ, I know it's in Kokomo...they asked my son to help start the process. They're trying to get GM folks to come, but they're all laid off and drawing 80% to stay home. I know one guy from Marion that's there.

In my departure from Delco, my last meeting I asked my boss if I might speak openly as my departure was near. I stood, I thanked my fellow workers in my group, and then I politely told him that he should video tape this meeting, and every Monday morning at 8:05 AM replay it every week because it's the same shit every meeting we have. The tail truly does wag the dog in many automotive concerns.
 
TJ, I know it's in Kokomo...they asked my son to help start the process. They're trying to get GM folks to come, but they're all laid off and drawing 80% to stay home. I know one guy from Marion that's there.

In my departure from Delco, my last meeting I asked my boss if I might speak openly as my departure was near. I stood, I thanked my fellow workers in my group, and then I politely told him that he should video tape this meeting, and every Monday morning at 8:05 AM replay it every week because it's the same shit every meeting we have. The tail truly does wag the dog in many automotive concerns.
FWIW, I and the people inside working have a 20% cut that will be deferred until 4th quarter at 6%. What I never asked is whether my contribution AND match % to 401k was based upon my 100% salary or 80% salary and I'm sure it is the 80% as that also defers the GM payout...people that lived during the Delco years would be depressed to see it today...
 
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@TwinDegrees2 I can't find the article on the Indiana site saying that COVID deaths are being inflated. Can you help?
See my posts in the thread about the IN number of Covid deaths that is actually factual. They are not being inflated. People on here need to get a GD grip on some of this stuff.
 
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I never said they were being inflated. I said that many are being reported as CV when they may in fact not be. Sorry if you can't read.
You claim that deaths are being attributed to Covid that’s aren’t actually Covid, that’s inflating the number. Maybe the logic escapes you. Once again you’ve been fooled by far right wing figures into believing something fake.
 
Not only do I agree with what you posted, but humans need humans. How many will suffer depression or even more drug abuse? Having the country shut down is a health issue for virus limitation and other health issues along with economic destruction. Again I have no idea what is the right answer today.
It’s tough. Great healthcare relies on money...
 
We have had 11 deaths in the last 36 hours at a local nursing home (Bethany Point) The entire facility is "expected" to be infected, but they can't get any tests ! They have received 5 and all 5 were positive. The facility had 45-50 patients and the associated workers. Local officials believe all 50-60 are infected and are showing symptoms.

Some of them have transferred out of the facility recently and have taken the virus "with them". If you have parents in other facilities you need to see if any of these patients have transferred into the facilities you are using.

We have now gone from 3 cases about a week ago to over 100 (without the 50-60 above) and 11 deaths and those numbers will grow rapidly IF we can get testing to confirm them! We have received only 300 tests and a third of those tests were positive. I am betting the town has thousands of cases already and people are still walking into stores with their kids and no masks or gloves. Crazy !

I believe Anderson is just a small microcosm of what other communities will see without SIGNIFICANTLY more tests and coordination by our leaders ! The next 6-8 weeks are going to be brutal

Note: My brother and his wife just got back in town from an RV trip and now think they could be infected from 1 trip to Walmart in the Brownsburg area. (already have the classic symptoms, fever, diarrhea) 4-5 days from their trip to the local store. Another friend at Lilly has the virus and he religiously used masks and gloves. I believe it's clearly aerosoled and that the greater the "total" exposure the worse the symptoms and final outcome - but that's just my current theory at this point. Bottom line: It's here folks ! !
My cousin’s wife lost her grandmother in the Bethany Pointe nursing home this week.
 
You claim that deaths are being attributed to Covid that’s aren’t actually Covid, that’s inflating the number. Maybe the logic escapes you. Once again you’ve been fooled by far right wing figures into believing something fake.

Update: 24 deaths now at Bethany Point. Still think more are coming. This is SO sad. (and a few transferred to other long term care facilities, taking the virus with them.) Hopefully LOTs of lessons learned here. I hope the procedural mistakes aren't repeated elsewhere. (Lack of urgency kills)

Testing - Containment - Reduce cases by reducing variables.

Allowing them to transfer in the middle of this thing is a great example of expanding the variables.
 
Good or bad, I am already biased on your last question. We simply HAVE to error on the side of HEALTH. Even if we only lose tens of thousands of lives, how many others are going to have permanent damage to their lungs and potentially hearts. Can you imagine the future bill the country will pay on that? This is like chemical warfare
we have no option. we either have a controlled shutdown or an uncontrolled shutdown. if we waited till people still started dying en mass, a shutdown will still happen out fear.
 
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You claim that deaths are being attributed to Covid that’s aren’t actually Covid, that’s inflating the number. Maybe the logic escapes you. Once again you’ve been fooled by far right wing figures into believing something fake.
You're like a broken f=-ng record. And thanks for reminding me with every post you make why I'll vote for Trump again.
 
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