A new low?
- Thread starter Frankie611
- Start date
That's the life of a lousy basketball coach who makes over $3,000,000. Alford's kids and wife went through worse in Iowa, so what goes around comes around.
I feel bad for the kid, but I feel worse for him when there's pictures all over the world of his dad kissing him on the mouth.
Yeah, but Steve Alford caused a lot of that by being a dirtball and trying to cover up for a fricking rapist. That's damn near criminal.
People can take issue with Crean's coaching, but c'mon. Let's not liken his situation to Alford. I believe Tom Crean has a big ego and I'm not convinced he's a great coach, but at his core, I think he's probably a good man. Alford, based on what went down at Iowa...highly questionable character. Did his wife and kids deserve anything they got? Of course not. But Steve brought it all on and it was totally avoidable had he just done the right thing.
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That is a horrible title to an article. First of al,l it was not "IU fans." It was the Bloomington South student section in a rivalry game against Bloomington North. People pinning that on IU fans are idiots and looking for clicks. HS student sections say a lot of dumb crap.
OK....
But, the point remains...they were HS students not IU fans...during a rivalry game against the cross town school...to lump IU fans in there...is reaching for a headline and really freaking dumb.
But, the point remains...they were HS students not IU fans...during a rivalry game against the cross town school...to lump IU fans in there...is reaching for a headline and really freaking dumb.
They may be HS students, but they're all from Bloomington. What do you want to bet that 99% of them are IU fans, whether they're IU students or not?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
So, your defense is that the IU fans who chanted Tom Crean Sucks are a small compartmentalized part of the overall fan base which boos and tells him he sucks in Assembly Hall which is of course a class move by a group who claims that the Paint Crew is classless for saying IU sucks even when Purdue is not playing IU. Huh?
Actually I see your point and concede it was a foolish HS bball cheer. However you must admit that some of the IU posters have made comments to the effect of "well maybe it is a good thing because if Tom's family is uncomfortable he will want to get out sooner." Do you agree they are accepting and even encouraging intimidation to get a coaching change?
How do you know they were HS students. Many of us remember adult iu fans booing HS players that committed to Purdue -- including at Indiana-Kentucky All-Star games. It has been posted on this board many times over the years. Now you expect us to suddenly believe that iu fans are above such antics?
This toxic environment being created by some (many) IU fans will cause problems in attracting a replacement coach for Crean, when and if the time comes. Like it or not, Tom Crean is the face of IU basketball, and what happens to him, happens to IU basketball. Just because they have decided they don't like him, they think that gives them permission to engage in this red-neck lynch-mob intimidation of both him and his family. This is an ugly situation.
As fans of IU's rival, we might agree that Tom Crean is not the best coach IU could have. His insincere concern for his kids, and his courtside antics make him a fool in our eyes. So what? That does not justify the treatment his family is receiving.
Any new coach, looking in from the outside, will see a history of intimidation and lack of loyalty. They will see this toxic environment and be concerned. Mike Davis takes IU to the FF, and 2-3 years later he is hiding in his basement, and his family afraid to go out in public. Tom Crean comes in and builds IU into a #1 ranked team in the country, and 2-3 years later his family can't wait to get out of Bloomington because of intimidation. Yes, IU fans can find odd justifications for these actions, but to an outsider, they will quickly lead to a conclusion that the IU job is very unattractive because of the toxic fan base.
I posted a more polite version of this to Peegs, and you can read the responses. You can quickly tell who the red-necks are. I actually did not intend for my posting to be so polarizing, but you can see the clear dicide between those with class and those IU fans that are probably instigating this.
As fans of IU's rival, we might agree that Tom Crean is not the best coach IU could have. His insincere concern for his kids, and his courtside antics make him a fool in our eyes. So what? That does not justify the treatment his family is receiving.
Any new coach, looking in from the outside, will see a history of intimidation and lack of loyalty. They will see this toxic environment and be concerned. Mike Davis takes IU to the FF, and 2-3 years later he is hiding in his basement, and his family afraid to go out in public. Tom Crean comes in and builds IU into a #1 ranked team in the country, and 2-3 years later his family can't wait to get out of Bloomington because of intimidation. Yes, IU fans can find odd justifications for these actions, but to an outsider, they will quickly lead to a conclusion that the IU job is very unattractive because of the toxic fan base.
I posted a more polite version of this to Peegs, and you can read the responses. You can quickly tell who the red-necks are. I actually did not intend for my posting to be so polarizing, but you can see the clear dicide between those with class and those IU fans that are probably instigating this.
red neck?
I take offense to the term red-neck being applied to iu fans. I'm a red-neck. iu fans are stupid hill-jacks! There's a difference! cmon man!
I take offense to the term red-neck being applied to iu fans. I'm a red-neck. iu fans are stupid hill-jacks! There's a difference! cmon man!
I actually feel bad for that kid, he's just trying to play a high school game no need to chant things about a parent.
Your comment about the treatment of Crean Jr. just being the work of HS kids and not IU fans makes sense only if one has no historical perspective. Let's review known history:
1. IU fans mocked Pat Keady even while she was being treated for cancer to which she ultimatlely succumbed.
2. Mrs. Kramer was treated horribly by IU fans during the games in Bloomington that she attended to watch her sons play.
3. Maryland players a few years ago were the object of racist chanting by the fanbase on national tv. The university had to publicly apologize to the players for this action.
4.IU fans had planned to mock Haas' challenged sister during the recent game there. The plan failed because a CG member with conscience let the cat out of the bag prematurely and thus thwarted the chanting. I guess the fanbase things it's OK to make fun of people with disabilities.
5.Doyel in his column in the Star after the recent IU-Purdue game related the vile treatment (his words) that Haas receved there. Doyel is an experienced BB writer. He has covered games all over the USA. He wrote that the treatment was way out of line based upon his experience.
The fanbase treatment of Purdue HS recruits has already been mentioned. I am not aware of any other fanbase that does this, perhaps there is one but I do not know it. I do know that the Purdue fanbase doesn't do it because if they did, IU fans would be commenting upon it when criticized and that hasn't happened.
So the record is pretty clear. You may not like it but it is what it is.
You can try to put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.
Also, you claim that it was just HS kids chanting at Crean Jr. How do you know? Were you there? And no adults in the crowd were involved as well? Chicago is about 175 miles from Bloomington, so unless you were there or read an unbiased report, I do not know how you can make the claim that you did.
This post was edited on 3/11 12:48 PM by arcb102000
1. IU fans mocked Pat Keady even while she was being treated for cancer to which she ultimatlely succumbed.
2. Mrs. Kramer was treated horribly by IU fans during the games in Bloomington that she attended to watch her sons play.
3. Maryland players a few years ago were the object of racist chanting by the fanbase on national tv. The university had to publicly apologize to the players for this action.
4.IU fans had planned to mock Haas' challenged sister during the recent game there. The plan failed because a CG member with conscience let the cat out of the bag prematurely and thus thwarted the chanting. I guess the fanbase things it's OK to make fun of people with disabilities.
5.Doyel in his column in the Star after the recent IU-Purdue game related the vile treatment (his words) that Haas receved there. Doyel is an experienced BB writer. He has covered games all over the USA. He wrote that the treatment was way out of line based upon his experience.
The fanbase treatment of Purdue HS recruits has already been mentioned. I am not aware of any other fanbase that does this, perhaps there is one but I do not know it. I do know that the Purdue fanbase doesn't do it because if they did, IU fans would be commenting upon it when criticized and that hasn't happened.
So the record is pretty clear. You may not like it but it is what it is.
You can try to put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.
Also, you claim that it was just HS kids chanting at Crean Jr. How do you know? Were you there? And no adults in the crowd were involved as well? Chicago is about 175 miles from Bloomington, so unless you were there or read an unbiased report, I do not know how you can make the claim that you did.
This post was edited on 3/11 12:48 PM by arcb102000
I haven't seen that but I also don't go to the free board. I have heard there have been some comments made to his wife and kids before which is embarrassing as fans and alumni. Whether they are IU graduates or not, you get lumped in with those idiots. People (IU fans included) don't have a filter anymore and say what they think. It is disgusting. Personally, I think he should be fired, and/or he should leave on his own accord. However, I do not think it is right to say anything to his family. Family should be off limits, and if those things I heard are true, it is embarrassing as an alumni. So, I guess I am saying....I do not encourage intimidation for a coaching change. I don't even like booing during games. However, I do express my opinions on if Crean is a capable coach at a high major program. I think he would be fine at a lower tier high major or mid-major program like Marquette, DePaul, etc.
What I am saying is they aren't even a small compartmentalized part of the whole IU fanbase.....I am saying that they are a bunch of dumb HS kids that say a lot of dumb crap. This is going to happen especially at rivalry games. Apparently it wasn't loud enough for the other side of the arena to hear them. Is it acceptable? No, it is not. Apparently the Bloomington South principal shut it down pretty quickly, and punished the HS students that did it. Like I said, at rivalry games....fans say a lot of stupid crap. Is it acceptable? No.....Does it happen and will it continue to happen? You know the answer is yes...and this goes for all levels....
arcb102000....well in this instance...it was the work of HS kids....that is all I am saying....does the IU fanbase do stupid crap? Yes they do. I think we could all revisit at some point in all of our fanbases activities during games or after games and have something to shake our heads about. Let me set the record straight though....I do think overall IU's fanbase has a lot of idiots (almost as bad as Kentucky fans). However, I think there is a good chunk that are alumni, educated, good fans, and would be appalled by the things below. Understand? It isn't smart to lump all IU fans into one category.
It is because the Bloomington South principal said it was and he handled it. He shut it down, and issued an apology to the Crean family.
IU fans are well known for their behavior. Ask the kid from Maryland for example. I really do hate to see a kid be picked on since I've always held the opinion that Coaches get paid to take abuse, but families do not. But where was your condemnation of the IU aholes that used to make fun of Pat Keady? Even your radio announcer (not Fish) made fun of her because she wasn't some beauty queen. By all accounts she was a wonderful person and helped many people in her life. Yet your fanbase was horrible to her. So please, go sell your "everyone does it" shit somewhere else.
You are completely naive if you don't think that every fanbase does it. Is it right? NO! FOR THE HUNDREDTH TIME! Is it going to stop? No. There is nothing anybody can do to any of those people...because you can't.
I was having a discussion with my wife (who is a minority) about the OU incident last night. She was asking if those kids could be charged. I told her probably not because they were on a bus...so they were not trying to incite a riot...there are not in public so they could probably not be charged with public disturbance...and even if they did, they could hide behind freedom of speech...maybe they could get them with underage drinking but that is about it.....we have a "great" thing called freedom of speech..and it comes with a lot of ugliness from really freaking stupid people.
Like I side, it is embarrassing for people to attack people's wives and families. It should not be done. But, there is nothing you can do about it.....because like above, these idiots have rights as well. They have a right to say a lot of stupid shit. Is it right? No. Can you stop it? No. Would you like to? Yes. But, let's live in the world of reality here. There are a lot of dumb fan moments for about every fanbase but you cannot do anything to prevent it. Too many idiots in the world are procreating, and leaves us with a world full of idiots.
I was having a discussion with my wife (who is a minority) about the OU incident last night. She was asking if those kids could be charged. I told her probably not because they were on a bus...so they were not trying to incite a riot...there are not in public so they could probably not be charged with public disturbance...and even if they did, they could hide behind freedom of speech...maybe they could get them with underage drinking but that is about it.....we have a "great" thing called freedom of speech..and it comes with a lot of ugliness from really freaking stupid people.
Like I side, it is embarrassing for people to attack people's wives and families. It should not be done. But, there is nothing you can do about it.....because like above, these idiots have rights as well. They have a right to say a lot of stupid shit. Is it right? No. Can you stop it? No. Would you like to? Yes. But, let's live in the world of reality here. There are a lot of dumb fan moments for about every fanbase but you cannot do anything to prevent it. Too many idiots in the world are procreating, and leaves us with a world full of idiots.
I understand Btown's point. You really cannot stop stupid classless chants at a high school game, anymore than you can stop people from making similar comments to a coach's wife when she is at the grocery, or booing the team when they take the court. These are actions of inidivduals who make poor decisions. We live in a country that does not condone resticting free speech, Thank God.
The fault in this logic is thinking that an organization (high school, fan club, or any other group) has the responsiblity to monitor and control their members. This is along the line of thinking "somebody else should fix this". Unfortunately, this is very common thinking that is completely wrong.
It is the responsibillty of individuals who make personal decisions to monitor their own behavior. Each person involved, each person given the opportunity to act out, needs to correct their own behavior. When you see a large number of individuals making poor decisions about how to behave, you must look at the common denominator.
Where do people learn that it is somehow okay to be rude to people who act on your behalf? Who condones this type of behavior through their writings and actions? What is the common organization or background of these people?The answers to these questions might make you uncomfortable.
Btown, the OU Admin made a major mistake in handling the racist bus chant incident and it is going to cost them bigtime. I read an anlaysis by Eugene Volkov (sp?) a law prof at UCLA whose area of research is speech and first admendment issues. he went through a detailed analysis of existing case law and states that the OU Admin is way off. They expellled and identified the students and now they will make them rich. Check out his blog if you want to understand.
That does not mean that the students at OU were not awful. They were. However, you can be awful in America. And now they will be awful and rich because OU Admin commmitted a tort.
As for the BSouth chanting. Just because the principal put a stop to it does not mean that only students were chanting. I am from the East Coast. When I came to Indiana to study, I was quite surprised by the attendence at and associaition with HS basketball by adults in the state. This is very different from Chicago, NYC, Philadelphia or DC. In fact, it is a point of Indiana state pride that whole communities follow the HS basketball team in the town. So given that this is true, how can you then claim that ONLY the kids were chanting. There were likely lots of adults there as well. And given the behavior of IU fans cited earlier, why is the benefit of the doubt merited in this case? What you claimed may be true but need not be true. And you weren't there to see it as I understand it.
You also cite the "everybody does it" defense. I do not know that is true. I am not aware that the Purdue Admin has had to apologoze to visiting teams for racist chants. I am not aware that the Paint Crew sought to make fun of the disabled family members of visiting teams. I am not aware that Purdue fans boo IU commits at their HS games. Do you have knowledge of these things happening? If so, cite them. we do know that IU fans have done these things. It seems that you are throwing out an excuse that you can't back up.
That does not mean that the students at OU were not awful. They were. However, you can be awful in America. And now they will be awful and rich because OU Admin commmitted a tort.
As for the BSouth chanting. Just because the principal put a stop to it does not mean that only students were chanting. I am from the East Coast. When I came to Indiana to study, I was quite surprised by the attendence at and associaition with HS basketball by adults in the state. This is very different from Chicago, NYC, Philadelphia or DC. In fact, it is a point of Indiana state pride that whole communities follow the HS basketball team in the town. So given that this is true, how can you then claim that ONLY the kids were chanting. There were likely lots of adults there as well. And given the behavior of IU fans cited earlier, why is the benefit of the doubt merited in this case? What you claimed may be true but need not be true. And you weren't there to see it as I understand it.
You also cite the "everybody does it" defense. I do not know that is true. I am not aware that the Purdue Admin has had to apologoze to visiting teams for racist chants. I am not aware that the Paint Crew sought to make fun of the disabled family members of visiting teams. I am not aware that Purdue fans boo IU commits at their HS games. Do you have knowledge of these things happening? If so, cite them. we do know that IU fans have done these things. It seems that you are throwing out an excuse that you can't back up.
While I agree that the dean may have cited the wrong reason for expelling the students most likely they could have simply said they violated the university code of conduct. I could not find Oklahoma's code of conduct but this is a standard example used by many universities.
Students make the unqualified commitment to responsible conduct, both on and off campus, which conforms to the generally accepted standards of adult behavior within an academic community. Students are expected to show courtesy and respect for faculty, staff, and fellow students, in all personal contacts. Students must understand and accept the necessity for various College regulations and comply with directions of those individuals authorized to enforce the regulations. Violations of these regulations and/or conduct that are contrary to the best interest of the College community or its individual members will subject the student to action and penalties as the circumstances justify, including suspension or expulsion from the College.
I cannot say what Oklahoma's COC consists of but if it's anything like this standard version they would have very solid grounds to expel the students.
It's the classic argument that freedom of speech protects you from legal prosecution for what you say (except when your speech is lies the defame ones character or recklessly endangers other people, ie shouting fire in a crowded theater).
There can always be other consequences for what you say, such as college expulsion, which is what is happening to these students.
I will strongly defend freedom of speech in regards to legal prosecution but if there could be no consequences to what you say our society would have a bevy of problems as well.
This post was edited on 3/12 7:53 AM by BoilerGrad02
It was a long time ago, but I was at the Indiana All-Star game when Troy Lewis was resoundly booed by the crowd the entire game at MSA.
I also attended the Brebeuf/Danville game in Shelbyville during Travis Carroll's senior year. There were three obese 50ish men sitting on the front row decked out in IU garb from head to toe who appeared to be there solely to root against Carroll ostensibly because he was going to Purdue. Perhaps they were Brebeuf fans, but they did not appear to be your typical northside of Indy private school types. Let's be real, there are a lot more people who live in IN who have a massively disproportionate amount of their self-worth tied up in IU basketball then there are PU people. I work with a lot of these folks on a daily basis.
I used to play a lot of poker at Indiana Grand, and during the "Zeller era" seriously 90% of the patrons there were resplendent in IU garb. Now you go out there and all of that has gone away. In some ways I feel sorry for these folks.
I also attended the Brebeuf/Danville game in Shelbyville during Travis Carroll's senior year. There were three obese 50ish men sitting on the front row decked out in IU garb from head to toe who appeared to be there solely to root against Carroll ostensibly because he was going to Purdue. Perhaps they were Brebeuf fans, but they did not appear to be your typical northside of Indy private school types. Let's be real, there are a lot more people who live in IN who have a massively disproportionate amount of their self-worth tied up in IU basketball then there are PU people. I work with a lot of these folks on a daily basis.
I used to play a lot of poker at Indiana Grand, and during the "Zeller era" seriously 90% of the patrons there were resplendent in IU garb. Now you go out there and all of that has gone away. In some ways I feel sorry for these folks.
Mathboy let me answer your 3 questions:
Where do people learn that it is somehow okay to be rude to people who act on your behalf?
This is taught at home. After working in the public school system for several years, you see who and who does not teach their children manners and appropriate behavior. Who condones this type of behavior through their writings and actions?
I'm not aware of any journalists who condone this type of behavior, so you'll have to help me there.What is the common organization or background of these people?
Almost all organizations have these people and they come from every background. I think that football fans are much more annoying and out of control than baseball fans.
I would never condone what has happened to anyone. I coach and Sportsmanship and Behavior is lesson #1.
Unfortunately is has to be, because kids are not learning it at home anymore. It's not the school's job to teach it, it is to be taught at home, and it is not happening.
I am not a Crean fan by any means, but I think he life is tough enough right now that he and/or his family doesn't deserve to be treated poorly.
Where do people learn that it is somehow okay to be rude to people who act on your behalf?
This is taught at home. After working in the public school system for several years, you see who and who does not teach their children manners and appropriate behavior. Who condones this type of behavior through their writings and actions?
I'm not aware of any journalists who condone this type of behavior, so you'll have to help me there.What is the common organization or background of these people?
Almost all organizations have these people and they come from every background. I think that football fans are much more annoying and out of control than baseball fans.
I would never condone what has happened to anyone. I coach and Sportsmanship and Behavior is lesson #1.
Unfortunately is has to be, because kids are not learning it at home anymore. It's not the school's job to teach it, it is to be taught at home, and it is not happening.
I am not a Crean fan by any means, but I think he life is tough enough right now that he and/or his family doesn't deserve to be treated poorly.
RK, what and where do you coach? I agree with you fully that it begins at home. Like you, having coached for many years, you can tell exactly which home has no internal discipline, and which child is more likely to act out. My standard parent speech was, "Please come to the games, support your child and the team and school." "Do not get on umpires or refs, or the opposing team, and let me get on your child because the last thing they need is hearing their parents being an embarrassment to them."
RK, what and where do you coach? I agree with you fully that it begins at home. Like you, having coached for many years, you can tell exactly which home has no internal discipline, and which child is more likely to act out. My standard parent speech was, "Please come to the games, support your child and the team and school." "Do not get on umpires or refs, or the opposing team, and let me get on your child because the last thing they need is hearing their parents being an embarrassment to them."
3/12 9:31 AM | IP: Logged
For 3 million a year you can say whatever you want to me. My kids wouldn't care either.
3/12 9:31 AM | IP: Logged
For 3 million a year you can say whatever you want to me. My kids wouldn't care either.
I am currently Coaching High School baseball in East Central Indiana.
We set out guidelines early and let the kids know their Behavior and Sportsmanship can/will impact their playing time.
I just have no use for poor sports.
Last summer in our Jr High Summer baseball league there is a rule that if a parent is asked the leave the ballpark, then the player associated with that parent must also go!
And I have gone to the fence and told parents enough is enough, either they stop or leave.
We set out guidelines early and let the kids know their Behavior and Sportsmanship can/will impact their playing time.
I just have no use for poor sports.
Last summer in our Jr High Summer baseball league there is a rule that if a parent is asked the leave the ballpark, then the player associated with that parent must also go!
And I have gone to the fence and told parents enough is enough, either they stop or leave.
Wish I knew which school..... Might come out and "critique" you.
I will keep you informed!
If we win Sectional our Regional opponent is usually Lafayette Central Catholic!
So if they host Regional we would be in your area!
And, I've been "critiqued" before and sure I will again!
What really ticks those folks off is when you wave to them and say "Thanks for the advice"!
If we win Sectional our Regional opponent is usually Lafayette Central Catholic!
So if they host Regional we would be in your area!
And, I've been "critiqued" before and sure I will again!
What really ticks those folks off is when you wave to them and say "Thanks for the advice"!
Good responses.
To tell you the truth, I get upset when people think that somehow a public institution should be able to control individual fans. Idiots harassing Tom Crean's kid should have been corrected by their parents, not the school. Unfortunately I think they were egged on by adults who should have known better. The idiots in IU gear harassing Travis Carol should have been shut down by those sitting next to them. However, "those adults" should have known better themselves. They were adults, supposedly.
When my kids were playing sports, I did take it on myself to correct (attempt to correct) bad behavior amoung the fans of our school. In some cases I also interceded in more threatening confrontations between adults in the stands. In such situations, I oftened wondered where these behaviors were learned and why those people thought it was okay to act the way they did.
This is nothing new. I am sure ancient Babalonians, Romans, or Greeks idiots fought each other in the stands while their teams played with better sportsmanship on the field.
Actually, I live in East Central Indiana. West Laffy is about 80 minutes away.Originally posted by rkl15:
I will keep you informed!
If we win Sectional our Regional opponent is usually Lafayette Central Catholic!
So if they host Regional we would be in your area!
And, I've been "critiqued" before and sure I will again!
What really ticks those folks off is when you wave to them and say "Thanks for the advice"!
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