Sort of like how the Colts have struggled to land edge rushers like Freeney and Mathis in the last decade. What’s up with that!!?
2022 Recruiting
- Thread starter TX4GB
- Start date
I know everyone wants to talk about Painter in these terms like he misses and doesn't get "elite" guys but let's look a few miles south of Bloomington - Louisville. Their class for 2019 was ranked as 12th nationally. This was the shining example of them having a home run hire in Chris Mack. That class had 6 kids and 3 are in the transfer portal now. They finished 13-7 last year and didn't make the tourney.
Do I want his elite recruits who seemingly don't stick around or someone who is consistent? I think Painter has his weaknesses in the recruiting world. Maybe he has those tough conversations that happen at Louisville after year 1, 2, 3 etc, Painter is having with kids as Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors in high school.
Do I want his elite recruits who seemingly don't stick around or someone who is consistent? I think Painter has his weaknesses in the recruiting world. Maybe he has those tough conversations that happen at Louisville after year 1, 2, 3 etc, Painter is having with kids as Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors in high school.
With that logic, we would have never ended up with Edwards or Ivey...
Well since he did recruit Ivey and Edwards, he seemingly didn't struggle to land them...
Well, Edwards was too short. He literally couldn't overcome that.
And Ivey couldn't shoot from outside. That's generally not correctable, right?
I like Newman, he's got to develop his handles some more but he's a good get.
But, we're talking about incoming, not guys already on the roster.
As you said, the knock and downfall for both Keady and Painter has been consistency of having difference-makers at the G position. Painter's had a few in Moore, Edwards, and Ivey. I don't know why he has a tough time landing these guys with any regularity.
My suspicion is two things: these guys don't see Painter as someone who allows elite guards to do their thing. But all you have to do is watch tape of Edwards and Ivey to see that these types have all the freedom to do whatever their skill set allows. So, i think that's a misperception.
The other is that the 'defense first' reputation doesn't have land guys who know that NBA contracts are awarded for offensive production, not defense.
OK. I’ll do a Purdue football analogy: Okeafor, Colvin and Shaun Phillips were really good. We need Brohm to land more edge rushers who go on to be double digit sack guys in the NFL.
Or would you prefer a Notre Dame football analogy?
Which guards in the B1G last season met this criteria, besides Ivey, in your opinion?
Completely agree he is quite the stud and I too cannot wait to see where he takes us alongside Ivey next season.
Painter has had talent before, but when you add in the newcomers I am not certain he has ever had this much talent on a single roster.
What a dumb response. Carsen had multiple p5 offers and Ivey was clearly a big time player with his athleticism and ability to score. I was excited for both. Can’t say the same about our last two guys.
Well, I guess you don't have to watch Purdue basketball then...
The names will escape me and I'm too lazy to look them up, but here's a non-specific list. (these are individual players, not teams).
IL guards
Love the Rutgers guards
like the guard from Minny
Franklin from iu
MD had a guard I like
I like some of Purdue's guards. Love Ivey. He'll be a lottery pick next year. Newman's gonna be really good. I like Sasha and I think he's added another dimension to his game with his dribble.
I agree, which is why I think the next 2-3-4 years is do or die for Painter in terms of getting to a couple of FF and NC.
If he follows up these last two home run classes with a couple of mediocre classes, that's concerning.
I know I'm going to hate myself for even taking this seriously, but a couple of questions ...
What is a "mediocre class", and why would you think he would have a mediocre class?
A mediocre class would be one ranked in the middle of the pack in the B10 and outside the Top 25 nationally, in addition to having more 2-3* players than 4-5* players.
The last two "Home Run" classes (2021 and 2020) you previously mentioned were/are ranked #34 and #33 respectively at the National level on 247 Sports. That is 7th and 6th in the Big Ten.
Our last 8 classes going back to the Vince Edwards class of 2014 are ranked as follows (on 247):
2021 - #34 Nationally, 7th in the Big Ten
2020 - #36 Nationally, 6th in the Big Ten
2019 - #58 N, #8 Big
2018 - #49 N, #9 Big
2017 - #34 N, #4 Big
2016 - #108 N (C Edwards only recruit), #13 Big
2015 - #37 N, #7 Big
2014 - #33 N, #5 Big
Your Mediocre class description is better than any we have recruited in the last 8 years including the two "Home Run" classes.
Yes, we all want the best players we can get but Purdue has done very well with "mediocre" classes. I think you are focusing in too much on recruit ratings and not other factors like shooting ability, ability to be coached up, and that they are staying around the program for 3-4 years.
We had legitimate chances with these mediocre players to make the FF but did not.
If we get better talent, I would love that but I do think we are getting excellent talent with the right type of skills. We do need a couple more guys that can create their own shot but the rest of our guys have been very good.
Well, considering that rankings are commonly a product of the number of recruits, a mid-pack B1G wouldn't necessarily be "mediocre".
Also, we already have a 3- and a 4-star player committed for 2022 (per Rivals).
It's also interesting to note, we would have to go back to 2015 (Eden Ewing) to find a recruit who wasn't 3-star or above. (Before that, it was 2008 with Hart.)
you didn't answer the other question... why would you think he would have a "mediocre class"?
I generally appreciate all perspectives, but I'm not sure why you constantly insist on having such a sh*tty outlook and disposition. I just don't understand living life in that manner.
Hmm. Like Baylor's success, which you claim was predictable because it was being built over the past seasons? None of Baylor's past 5 recruiting classes were top 25 in the nation. The highest was #31 and 2 of the past 4 classes did not even make the list of the top 50. How is that even possible?
So far I like where this class is headed.
Loyer is an ELITE shooter. He gets penciled into the Mathias/Cline role but his offensive ceiling is higher IMO.
I really like the latest Smith highlights on the website. The roster gets a true PG who is a lights out shooter if left open. I think he has the competitive makeup to be a bulldog on defense too, even if he is a bit undersized.
Washington just seems to fit the mold of kids this program has been landing the last 3-4 years. I'm hoping that fit begins to recruit itself like it did with Kaufman as he narrows down options and makes a choice. The versatility of a Gillis/Edey/Kaufman/Furst/Washington frontcourt is fun to think about. Gillis and Kaufman will need to develop into playing some 3. We'll see.....
As a Colts fan I sometimes get tired of hearing Ballard go on and on about drafting guys who have high character, were team captains, etc, but I think there is definitely some truth to it when it comes to building a winning team. In this new era of transfers, I think Coach Paint is going to lean even more on a similar strategy in going after some guys like Wadell and Smith who might not bolt after one or two years and get the big picture of development in a winning program. Of course, you need to hit on the Kaufman's and Washington's every now and then too, but keeping developmental guys in your program will be just as important.
Loyer is an ELITE shooter. He gets penciled into the Mathias/Cline role but his offensive ceiling is higher IMO.
I really like the latest Smith highlights on the website. The roster gets a true PG who is a lights out shooter if left open. I think he has the competitive makeup to be a bulldog on defense too, even if he is a bit undersized.
Washington just seems to fit the mold of kids this program has been landing the last 3-4 years. I'm hoping that fit begins to recruit itself like it did with Kaufman as he narrows down options and makes a choice. The versatility of a Gillis/Edey/Kaufman/Furst/Washington frontcourt is fun to think about. Gillis and Kaufman will need to develop into playing some 3. We'll see.....
As a Colts fan I sometimes get tired of hearing Ballard go on and on about drafting guys who have high character, were team captains, etc, but I think there is definitely some truth to it when it comes to building a winning team. In this new era of transfers, I think Coach Paint is going to lean even more on a similar strategy in going after some guys like Wadell and Smith who might not bolt after one or two years and get the big picture of development in a winning program. Of course, you need to hit on the Kaufman's and Washington's every now and then too, but keeping developmental guys in your program will be just as important.
Loyer had multiple P5 offers. Ivey's "obvious" greatness wasn't obvious to the rest of the world because he was unranked when Purdue offered. Butler and ND were the only other P5 schools that offered, and neither school is a powerhouse.
I'm not sure how it escapes some people's attention that once a player commits, other schools stop offering. Carsen waited until his senior year to commit, providing time for more schools to see him and offer. If Ivey, Loyer, and Smith had held out, they obviously would have gotten more offers. If Furst and Kaufman had committed as sophomores, the record would have shown that they received very few offers.
I never said anything about loyer. Looks like you’re arguing to just to argue. Big surprise...
It wasn't an argument, John. Just pointing out facts that some people haven't seemed to consider.
The number of D1 offers is a faulty measure of a kids capability. They vary by when a kid commits and what his conversations are with various recruiters. It is very situational, and any cursory look at teams that are very successful shows only a modest correlation.
Situation #1: If Matt Painter identifies a legitimate talent early and gives him an offer, it might look like the offer went to a kid with no or few D1 offers. That same kid may pickup addition offers as he becomes a senior but the initial look is what drive some folks to misjudge the player.
Situation #2: A kid tells other recruiters that he really likes Purdue, has an offer and thinks he will go there. Recruiters don’t waste their time or offers on him, as much as they would like to have him play at their school. Only Crean was oblivious enough to spread offers around like hooker flyers in Vegas.
Situation #3: A kid is injured his senior year and doesn’t make the AAU circuit. Many D1 recruiters don’t look beyond what t hey see there. The kid might be just excellent but won’t get many offers. This was Newman’s situation to some degree. In the realm of football, it’s why Drew Brees came to Purdue.
Situation #1: If Matt Painter identifies a legitimate talent early and gives him an offer, it might look like the offer went to a kid with no or few D1 offers. That same kid may pickup addition offers as he becomes a senior but the initial look is what drive some folks to misjudge the player.
Situation #2: A kid tells other recruiters that he really likes Purdue, has an offer and thinks he will go there. Recruiters don’t waste their time or offers on him, as much as they would like to have him play at their school. Only Crean was oblivious enough to spread offers around like hooker flyers in Vegas.
Situation #3: A kid is injured his senior year and doesn’t make the AAU circuit. Many D1 recruiters don’t look beyond what t hey see there. The kid might be just excellent but won’t get many offers. This was Newman’s situation to some degree. In the realm of football, it’s why Drew Brees came to Purdue.
Similar to Situation #3 injuries affected the recruiting of Trevion, Gillis, and Jameel Brown.
I guess we differ on what's considered excellent talent. I think we've got a few really talented players but also have some guys playing a lot of minutes or key roles who are mediocre/marginal B10 level talent.
I don't have a $hitty outlook and disposition. I'm just a realist and it bothers me when someone says player X is a 'great' player when nothing supports that. We all have differing opinions and sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. That's why there's debate.
I think Purdue should have FF/NC expectations over the next 2-3 years. These will be Painter's most talented teams top/bottom.
Then why is he recruiting anyone who wasn’t highly ranked with big time offers coming out of high school?
High basketball IQ. Obviously.
You called the #36 and #34 classes "home run" classes. Then you said a class outside of the Top 25 is mediocre. You seem to mostly differ with yourself. Confusing yourself with all this moving of the goalposts?
If you look at the national ranking, which I think is the better indicator, it shows Painter is incredibly consistent. To me, that is what you want in recruiting and allows you to just keep it rolling.
Don't remind him what he said in previous posts. As a master debater, he can't be held to that standard...
I just wish he was consistently a little higher in the class rankings.
You're flattering yourself. Your posts aren't reading like that of being a "realist".
You've taken every opportunity to crap on this program, you've b*tched about our recruits, and you've made comments about Painter having "mediocre" recruiting in the next couple of years (which you refused to address).
Lately everything you've posted has seemly been with a sh*tty disposition. That ain't reality.
I agree that we should/could go to the FF. Even if they don't, it's no reason to constantly post negative crap seemingly in an effort to make everyone else around you miserable. If that's not your goal, a bit of self-reflection might be in order.
Ivey can shoot from outside. The problem is that he's just an inefficient chuckerWell, Edwards was too short. He literally couldn't overcome that.
And Ivey couldn't shoot from outside. That's generally not correctable, right?
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