19 children
- Thread starter TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong
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When I was in Jr High I took a hunter safety course and was given a card after successfully completing that allowed me to hunt anywhere in the US. At a minimum I think a gun/hunter safety course should be mandatory for anyone getting a gun. Don't know if this would catch the nuts but it would be a start.
There was no armed guard on the campus, no security cameras, no security vestibule, and no outside buzz-in system.
Oh and the door was unlocked. Compared to every other school in America: no security.
Except a very small percentage of guns end a life, every abortion does.
That still amazes me. I guess I took it for granted that stuff just isn't standard practice at schools through out the US now. I know I can't remember the last time I've walked into a school that did not have that stuff since Sandyhook.
I know people say this often on here, but you honestly do have mental issues.
The father of one of the Parkland victims agrees we need better school security and mental illness awareness and changes:
www.foxnews.com
As usual though, the left goes straight for massive gun control and focuses on the wrong thing:
"There’s gun laws in place, there’s so many gun laws in place," Pollack said. "If they don’t have a background, not one gun law is going to make a difference. You can’t focus on guns. Nothing gets done."
It also isn't some stigma that will scare kids. Airports are extremely secure and even if not all, the majority of college campuses have their own police. There is no reason something can't be duplicated to keep K-12 kids safe.
Parkland shooting victim's father says focus on gun control, not solutions, is why this 'happens'
Andrew Pollack, whose daughter was killed in the Parkland school shooting in 2018, told Fox News Digital that states haven't learned from past school shootings.
As usual though, the left goes straight for massive gun control and focuses on the wrong thing:
"There’s gun laws in place, there’s so many gun laws in place," Pollack said. "If they don’t have a background, not one gun law is going to make a difference. You can’t focus on guns. Nothing gets done."
It also isn't some stigma that will scare kids. Airports are extremely secure and even if not all, the majority of college campuses have their own police. There is no reason something can't be duplicated to keep K-12 kids safe.
If you’re going to solely focus on school security and not mention all of the other failures that led up to this, then I don’t know what to tell you. There was a school officer who engaged him but obviously didn’t stop him. To say there was NO security is not true. I agree that it wasn’t Fort Knox either but they probably had what they could afford. I mean cops tailed him and then stood outside for an hour. We can focus on that failure too, among countless others.
Like I said yesterday, throw the kitchen sink at this. You wanna make a school like Fort Knox? Go for it. But again, throw money at mental health and make it tough as hell to buy a gun too. He walked in to that gun store, bought his arsenal, walked out and then Would have asked someone else to buy him a six pack since he couldn’t.
I’ve seen in various reports that there wasA school resource officer who engaged him (I admittedly don’t know what that means) but no shots were fired. But enjoy your cookie. I’m not trying to argue semantics with you.
Like I said, arm the school To the hilt. Put snipers on the roof. Go for it.
And it has sense been reported, that no one met him at the school and to top that, he was outside the school randomly firing off shots for over 10 minutes before he entered the school.
There was warning and time to react, and nothing was done to even try to slow him down.
Okay. And that’s an issue. But we can’t talk about this part of it without talking about what led up to all of this in the first place. Failures everywhere, would you agree?
Wrong.
Texas cops reveal there was NO armed guard on campus shooting started
At a press conference on Thursday afternoon, Victor Escalon shared new details from Tuesday's shooting including how SWAT teams took an hour to arrive to breach the classroom.
Like I said, there was no security to speak of at this school.
I don't think it's come out what led up to this. It is known his dad was a felon, but I haven't seen any information as to motives. Sounds like home situation wasn't the best though.
No motive is out yet and there was no indications this was even coming and nothing to stop him from passing any sort of background check.
What we need to do is stop making knee-jerk reactions until everything comes out. As that Parkland parent said in my link, gun control isn't the answer as there is enough of it to stop people. But when the person has mental issues and can pass all the checks there are, that is the problem.
However the flip side to red flag laws is who gets to determine you're mentally ill? I mean if anyone can do it there are three people in this thread alone that should be on it.
Okay. Where do you want me to send your certificate?Wrong.
Texas cops reveal there was NO armed guard on campus shooting started
At a press conference on Thursday afternoon, Victor Escalon shared new details from Tuesday's shooting including how SWAT teams took an hour to arrive to breach the classroom.www.dailymail.co.uk
Like I said, there was no security to speak of at this school.
Which would further bolster the need for much better and way more accessible mental health resources and way more difficult for him to buy what he bought.
Supposedly, his mother worked at that school or used to work at that school and this deranged lunatic had a falling out with his mother about a month before the shootings. She supposedly kicked him out over an altercation about wi-fi. He was living with his grandparents - he shot his grandmother in the face before going to the school. He fired shots outside the school for 5-10 minutes before going inside and starting his slaughter. This a-hole was a sociopath without a criminal record.
Yeah, but that only helps if people realize they have an issue and take advantage of the services. Not sure how that helps in this situation.
I don’t disagree either. So, again, make it tough as shit to buy what he bought too.
He didn't buy anything of alarm. People are just obsessed with AR rifles because they are scary looking, but they aren't any different than several other more normal looking variant of hunting rifles.
And these are also long range weapons, yes, people buy them because they look cool, which in a lot of ways, we are lucky because these idiots gravitate to them for that reason as a shot gun in a close quarter situation would actually be worse and not nearly as discriminatory depending on what they are loading.
People need to get over the AR stuff, it's just grandstanding and shows how little people know about guns. AR stands for ArmaLite rifle. Not Assault Riffle and they are not any more effective than other styles. It honestly would be about my last choice, just not my cup of tea, I guess.
Exactly. Many of the Libs on here keep calling his AR-15 an “assault rifle”, which by definition is fully automatic. It is almost impossible these days to get a license to own fully automatic weapons, unless you are former military or LEO. AR-15s are semi-automatic, meaning you have to pull the trigger each time to discharge a bullet.
No. You don’t get to lament the school not being locked down like Fort Knox while making excuses for the gun. I do not give a flying fukk about the gun type. I’m talking about why he was allowed to buy anything so easily anyway. All I’ve been hearing is arm the schools, make one point of entry/exit and not one goddamned thing about why it’s fine to have such easy access. If you aren’t willing to discuss every aspect of this then you aren’t serious about stopping the next one. I’m all for trying everything to prevent the next one. You’re proposing arming the school to the hilt which does nothing to stop him from going to a church or store etc and doing the same thing.
SD, please stfu about the type of gun. All you’re doing is arguing semantics and making excuses.
That's easy, he has no prior record and there isn't a law out there that would've prevented him from buying it short of a complete ban on guns. That's the part you aren't getting.
The only way to protect kids from complete outliers like this, which seems to be who usually do these things is to secure the school. Are kids not worth defending to you? You want to focus on the gun and not the idea that practices that are common place at most schools that I've been to would have prevented this.
Maybe Biden should drop his college loan buyout plan and divert that funding to securing schools since obviously not all of them are secured.
Does this seem to be a problem for everyone? Stuff like this can be fixed immediately.
People at stores and churches have guns. Kids and their teachers don’t. See the difference?
How are you getting all the Glocks off the street?
As someone who grew up hunting and bought several before I ever had a drivers license, no I don't.
And he bought a .22. So he bought a step up from a BB gun. Had the first one of those one I was 8, had three by 10.
At 13 I bought my 12 gauge and .223
Me. He was with me when I bought them, but I was the one handing over the money.
My father had his guns, of course now that I live in suburbia, he has his guns and most of mine. By the time I graduated highschool, I had 10x the amount he did. I was a little into guns when I was younger, college that turned into an electronics obsession.
You have to start somewhere. The nothing that is going on now isn’t helping. You advocating for having armed guards at schools is fine but it’s only a fraction of the bigger issues.
SD and others chiding folks about what kind of gun anAR15 means dick because it does nothing to address anything and doesn’t indicate any intent to address anything. Who the hell cares what kind of gun was used? 19 kids were killed. No one wants to talk about why he was able to buy ANYTHING without a second thought but he has to wait three years to go into a bar.
If only there was as much concern about this as there was about protesting in front of someone’s home. Maybe something would get done then.
There are studies that show that if the media would stop giving the names of the shooters in these incidents, that many of the shootings wouldn't have happened. Jordan Peterson spelled it out. They'd rather be dead and infamous than alive and anonymous.
The media are giving them exactly what they want every time. They need to stop.
The media are giving them exactly what they want every time. They need to stop.
And I haven't seen you make a single suggestion on fixing the issue. You seem to just want to ban guns which works so well as criminals are so good at following the rules.
Kids die in car accidents at a far higher rate than by guns, what's being done to address the car issue? Should we ban those?
I only have a few points to bring up to the cesspool here, and I don't expect any one of them to make a damn bit of difference, thus please don't expect me to respond beyond this:
1) Mental health crisis is not a uniquely American problem - it's a human problem. Widespread civilian firearm ownership is uniquely American. So is widespread firearm fatality, whether by mass shootings, accidental death or injury, and suicide by firearm. The United States is far and away the leader in terms of developed nations in those groups... The United States is far and away the leader in civilian firearm ownership. That is not coincidental. Every single other country in the world has people in mental health crises. Only the United States has this high volume of firearm fatalities among civilians in the developed world.
Stop with the mental health red herring. That's a human problem; we need to solve a uniquely American problem.
2) The concept of a "slippery slope" is a fallacy. A fallacy is an argument based on false logic. Passing sensible gun control reform (for example, no body armor for the general public, raising the age of gun ownership, longer lead time for background checks, magazine limits, etc.) does not mean "They're coming for all your guns next."
3) For those who say "laws won't work", there are developed countries who, in the last 20 years, have implemented strict gun control laws - not removing all firearms from the civilian populace, mind you - and every one of them has seen a dramatic decrease in firearm fatalities and mass shootings since implementation.
Further, US states with highest proportion of gun ownership generally have the least restrictive gun laws, but also have the highest rates of firearm fatalities per capita. That is logical.
You don't know if laws "won't work", there is no logical reason to say why they work in other places, but they wouldn't work in the United States. Any argument made to that end is fallacious.
4) We need to stop talking in absolutes.
- Gun control will not stop mass shootings, even if we just somehow removed all guns from the people.
- No serious person is arguing that we need to take all of your weapons.
We need to reduce mass shootings as much as we practically can. We need to limit access to weapons in such ways that we maximize opportunities to weed out people who should not have access to firearms.
In my opinion, there are plenty of ways to do that:
- Increase the age of firearm ownership to 21 (or older).
- Mandatory waiting period of 90 days to purchase a firearm in order to conduct extensive background checks, and also simply to allow for a pause. Emotionally charged situations can dissipate; maybe someone has more chance to intervene. If I (or any other law-abiding gun owner) want to go buy a gun, I can wait 90 days. Firearm purchases should not be spur-of-the-moment decisions.
- Federally maintained "Do Not Sell" database that's easily accessible at points of sale, including to gun shows and private sellers. Hell, you could do this with an App on a smartphone. If you're a law-abiding citizen, you have nothing to worry about - you won't be in the database. If you're a felon, violent criminal, history of domestic violence or are treated for certain mental health issues, you're in there.
- Mandatory, periodic firearm safety training and competency testing for licensing. I'd love to see people have to pass a practical exam on their chosen firearm before being allowed to purchase ammunition. Show me you know how to use the weapon safely, and I'll let you take it home.
- Full responsibility of the gun owner for anything that happens with that firearm, including automatic criminal negligence and accessory charges for anyone whose registered firearm is used in a crime. Allow that chain of custody to be traced all the way back to point of sale in the event that a firearm is used or possessed by someone not legally allowed to have one, just like we do with cigarettes and alcohol. (I believe some states already do this).
If you are a law-abiding gun owner, you can have whatever weapon you want, but you are accountable for what happens with that weapon and accountable to society for demonstrating a modicum of expertise with said firearm before you can go home with it.
Finally, we can talk till we are blue in the face about whether or not gun control will work or not, and that the bad guys are going to get weapons if they want them.
Yep. I agree.
But you lock the doors of your cars and you lock your house even though the bad guys can get in if they want to.
If we do just enough to keep honest people honest, and delay or deter the others - especially those who need help - I think we'll take a pretty big bite out of the gun fatality epidemic in this country.
Part of being a member of society is being willing to make sacrifices for a greater good. America does not promise individual rights and freedoms at the expense of others - this is the crux of the Pro-Life argument. It's time to stop pretending like 2A means you can do whatever the **** you want with a gun in this country, everyone else be damned. That's not how America works in any other way. Guns should be no exception.
1) Mental health crisis is not a uniquely American problem - it's a human problem. Widespread civilian firearm ownership is uniquely American. So is widespread firearm fatality, whether by mass shootings, accidental death or injury, and suicide by firearm. The United States is far and away the leader in terms of developed nations in those groups... The United States is far and away the leader in civilian firearm ownership. That is not coincidental. Every single other country in the world has people in mental health crises. Only the United States has this high volume of firearm fatalities among civilians in the developed world.
Stop with the mental health red herring. That's a human problem; we need to solve a uniquely American problem.
2) The concept of a "slippery slope" is a fallacy. A fallacy is an argument based on false logic. Passing sensible gun control reform (for example, no body armor for the general public, raising the age of gun ownership, longer lead time for background checks, magazine limits, etc.) does not mean "They're coming for all your guns next."
3) For those who say "laws won't work", there are developed countries who, in the last 20 years, have implemented strict gun control laws - not removing all firearms from the civilian populace, mind you - and every one of them has seen a dramatic decrease in firearm fatalities and mass shootings since implementation.
Further, US states with highest proportion of gun ownership generally have the least restrictive gun laws, but also have the highest rates of firearm fatalities per capita. That is logical.
You don't know if laws "won't work", there is no logical reason to say why they work in other places, but they wouldn't work in the United States. Any argument made to that end is fallacious.
4) We need to stop talking in absolutes.
- Gun control will not stop mass shootings, even if we just somehow removed all guns from the people.
- No serious person is arguing that we need to take all of your weapons.
We need to reduce mass shootings as much as we practically can. We need to limit access to weapons in such ways that we maximize opportunities to weed out people who should not have access to firearms.
In my opinion, there are plenty of ways to do that:
- Increase the age of firearm ownership to 21 (or older).
- Mandatory waiting period of 90 days to purchase a firearm in order to conduct extensive background checks, and also simply to allow for a pause. Emotionally charged situations can dissipate; maybe someone has more chance to intervene. If I (or any other law-abiding gun owner) want to go buy a gun, I can wait 90 days. Firearm purchases should not be spur-of-the-moment decisions.
- Federally maintained "Do Not Sell" database that's easily accessible at points of sale, including to gun shows and private sellers. Hell, you could do this with an App on a smartphone. If you're a law-abiding citizen, you have nothing to worry about - you won't be in the database. If you're a felon, violent criminal, history of domestic violence or are treated for certain mental health issues, you're in there.
- Mandatory, periodic firearm safety training and competency testing for licensing. I'd love to see people have to pass a practical exam on their chosen firearm before being allowed to purchase ammunition. Show me you know how to use the weapon safely, and I'll let you take it home.
- Full responsibility of the gun owner for anything that happens with that firearm, including automatic criminal negligence and accessory charges for anyone whose registered firearm is used in a crime. Allow that chain of custody to be traced all the way back to point of sale in the event that a firearm is used or possessed by someone not legally allowed to have one, just like we do with cigarettes and alcohol. (I believe some states already do this).
If you are a law-abiding gun owner, you can have whatever weapon you want, but you are accountable for what happens with that weapon and accountable to society for demonstrating a modicum of expertise with said firearm before you can go home with it.
Finally, we can talk till we are blue in the face about whether or not gun control will work or not, and that the bad guys are going to get weapons if they want them.
Yep. I agree.
But you lock the doors of your cars and you lock your house even though the bad guys can get in if they want to.
If we do just enough to keep honest people honest, and delay or deter the others - especially those who need help - I think we'll take a pretty big bite out of the gun fatality epidemic in this country.
Part of being a member of society is being willing to make sacrifices for a greater good. America does not promise individual rights and freedoms at the expense of others - this is the crux of the Pro-Life argument. It's time to stop pretending like 2A means you can do whatever the **** you want with a gun in this country, everyone else be damned. That's not how America works in any other way. Guns should be no exception.
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