Certainly. RP would of been the backup to the backup here and at worst the first off the bench at IU with current commits. He sees it that way clearly and that is why he chose IU, which is the ultimate factor in all of this.
Will Robert Phinisee be the next to commit to IU.
- Thread starter birdforpar
- Start date
Dude take off your black and gold glasses for a minute.
This is Purdue's current roster for that year
Eastern
Carsen/Sasha
Cline
Ewing/Wheeler
Taylor/Haarms/Williams
Please tell me how there isn't PT to be had for a guard. Also, what happens if the Eastern at PG experiment fails this year? What if it turns out Eastern is better off at a wing than at PG?
Has nothing to do with that, I am basing what I am saying off of factual things not hyperbole like you.
It's all hyperbole right now. I just showed you the roster breakdown for that year. You aren't in the least bit concerned about our back court play at this point? Not necessarily the starters, but the reserves. Sasha is our only guard reserve at this point.
Except for Purdue, what I posted is rather factual since it was put in place already against UAE.
I'm going to let this lie since you haven't offered anything to refute what I and others have told you and this is just going around in circles.
What exactly is fact when it comes to the roster next year? It isn't a fact at this point that Eastern can play PG at the Big Ten level.
Phinisee is locked in at PG which is the position that best suits Phinisee. He isn't big enough to be a 2 or a 3....so he would have to fight through both Carsen and Eastern for that playing time. By the time Edwards is gone, there is a very good chance Isiah Thompson (who many believe is much better than Robert) will head to Purdue and has the ability to play the 1 and the 2...just isn't going to be lots of minutes to be had in the next 2-4 years at Purdue unless the talent level support that...Phinisee is a talent, but not one that can get in front of Carsen, Eastern, and then Thompson/potentially another guard in 2018/2019.
Congrats to the young man committing to IU...but many on this board who I truly respect their opinion about ability and projecting it...aren't that devastated by this 'loss.' There are other players better suited to Purdue's program who appear to be better projected talents.
You raise another good point and I completely forgot about Thompson. Which makes it even more clear that RP may of seen the writing on the wall. Reading a bit more on Thompson and he so far seems to be an absolute stud in the making.
Every time Purdue loses a recruiting battle the recruit suddenly "wasn't good enough to play here" or "he saw the writing on the wall" or "we have [insert recruits name here] coming in the next class". At some point, you will acknowledge the pattern.
I was never high on Phinisee and that's because I teach in the same school corporation as he plays in (rival high school...taught there as well). I've seen him and although he is a good player...I watched him in person and was never impressed with his ability as a starting PG for a major college team. I don't claim to be a professional and if he turns in to a stud player for IU, congrats to him and I'll eat my crow. But I have seen him on multiple instances be outplayed by other players (like Thompson in a sectional final who had less around him than what Phinisee had).
Painter wants players that can play both the 1 and 2 (Carsen Edwards & Nojel Eastern) going forward and that is where Phinisee and Isaiah Thompson differ.
Yet somehow we still keep winning even with only getting leftovers and "missing out" on players that were the second coming of Threetwaan where had we offered and landed him and missed out on someone else, people would still complain.
I'm thinking though it is you that needs to acknowledge the pattern. Painter knows the needs of the team better than anyone on here. Period. And just because he didn't get a player you wanted doesn't mean he "missed out" on anything. Especially when it looks like there is potentially a better recruit waiting in the wings.
I said I wouldn't comment anymore and this is my last response to your circular refuted argument.
I'm not extremely high on Phinisee either. As I have stated I believe he will be a backup for the 1st few years in college. I still believe RP would have given Purdue good back court depth which is currently lacking. I also do not believe for a second that RP chose IU over Purdue because of playing time or being fearful of who is on the roster. He chose IU for the reasons that a lot of recruits choose IU over Purdue in recruiting, which could be any of the following:
Up Tempo Offense
Better facilities
Better campus life
Basketball History (Although that history is getting really old)
Any number of those reasons are why recruits choose IU over Purdue.
Serious question: How many recruiting battles has Painter won over IU?
There with probably be some 5th year transfers that will be available if Eastern can't play PG, my guess that is the route Purdue and Painter takes.
I agree with this. Given the current roster and our recruiting "pipeline" I expect at least one 5th year transfer.
I saw McCutcheon's sectional game against Kokomo, and their regional game against Carmel--but didn't see the sectional final against Zionsville. I know stat-lines don't tell the entire story, but they're a decent indicator. Phinisee went 7-13, 19 pts, 8 boards, 5 assists, 5 steals, and 2 TO's--Thompson went 5-13, 16 pts, 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 TO's. What did Thompson do to outplay Phinisee?
UAE wouldn't even be competitive in the lowest of D1 conferences. CE playing the point against them proves nothing other than there were lots of garbage minutes to fill.
Don't have a dog in this hunt, but using UAE as an example of any sort of future strategy against good competition doesn't work.
I understand what you are saying, but most of the conversations and posts you are referring happened long before RP committed to IU. That is a fact. You can go back and compare posting dates. Most of it was under the thread of “Phinissee is a Must Get” or something like that. I think there has been a general feeling around this board that there was a mutual disinterest between Purdue and RP. SO I don’t see the denigration of the recruit after he commits elsewhere as a salient point here.
My take is that RP is a good, BIG –worthy, point guard. He will get minutes in a rebuilding IU program. Good for him. My desire for Purdue is very different. I want a tall, fast, scoring PG that other teams will need to game-plan around. Whether it is Eastern or younger Thomas, I don’t care. I want a guard that is more than BIG-worthy. I want a Final-Four-worthy guard, if you know what I mean. If we are really going to take the next step (stop settling!), then I want guards that are better than what I perceive RP to be.
And, yes, I want a fab-five too, but without the hot tub bribes.
I think you would have to accept the converse argument that Phinissee has not shown that he can play PG either, right? So we are comparing two unknowns at this point, which should dampen your strident argument about the loss of Phinissee, right? Eastern is ranked higher than RP, but that is the only data we have, beyond Painter's scouting.
I agree they are both unknowns. I was in no way saying RP would be better than Eastern. I was saying we are dangerously thin at guard and that RP could certainly have helped in that area. Going into a season with Sasha as the only guard reserve would not be ideal.
Agree with your assessment and it is similar to mine about RP. He simply isn't what I would consider to be what would fit best for CMP going forward. He has stated he wants to have two guys like Eastern and Edwards on the floor at the same time (essentially two combo guards) going forward. Phinisee simply isn't a combo guard because he lacks height and what I can tell is an ability to get to the rim while also being able to hit the jumper outside. Those are a combination of things I didn't see at a high ability level when watching him play...whereas Eastern and Edwards both have that along with what appears Thompson has as well.
IMO, Phinisee was a player that was local and the best local player in probably 15-20 years in town (Byrd was pretty good as well actually)...but if the interest wasn't there, there shouldn't be a bunch of whining or complaining as many of those IU fans that have come here to see or hear. He is a solid player, yes...but one that doesn't probably fit the mold for what CMP would like going forward.
Well, you ask a good question about recruiting battles. I know IU offered Biggie, although we were in a dog fight with MSU over him, we did beat IU for his commitment. I will bet someone will take the time to make you a list of Purdue players with IU offers from the last 5 years. I will bet it will shock you just how many good players we got from IU. After that is published, I really don't want to see this sort of whining about "IU is better than us" again.
As far as why RP decided on IU, only he can tell you the real reasons. I suggest that we not speculate about the why, because it really makes little difference to us. I will bet Painter knows in detail why, so that's good enough for me. In fact he might be relived that he did not have to burn a scholly on a local boy. Purdue needs to focus on a team that can make the FF, not just compete in the BIG. Of course, the next response is "What recruits fit that strategy?" . Well so far, none in 2018. If we are going to take the next step, we need to recruit better. That means not taking the Phinisse's of this world. It means getting some real studs in house. Don't morn RP. We have bigger fish in the pond we need to catch.
Yes and I hope he is a domaint pg that Purdue hasn't had in years. I think he is a game changer with his skill set and size. I am saying if he pans out to be more of a SF type or we need an extra PG just in case, he would go with a 5th year.
I don't know..watched isiah play once...against Robert and I think there was a lot of zone and they never matched up until the last 10 or so minutes when Isiah guarded Robert. I'm not sure Robert guarded Isiah except maybe a couple of times on a switch. I did expect Robert who is more physically developed to be a lot quicker and was pleasantly surprised to see Isiah being able to stay with him. I think Purdue knows the Thompsons pretty well and I can't say enough good things about PJ's mental take on the game and team in general. If Isiah has some of PJs mental outlook and a little more height he may very well end up being a pretty darn good player.
Whether Isiah ends up being better than Rob...I don't know, but being a year younger I can see why Purdue would be interested. When I walked into the Jeff gym I immediately saw a player from the mid 80s that was an asst. principle for Zionsville and we talked a bit since he was wondering why I was at this game. He had seen the two square off before and thought Robert might be a bit better now, but that was due to more physical maturity. The normal curve of the population suggest there are many more guard skilled and size players that skilled bigs to pick from. Both are important because you won't win big without both, but it is easier to find a quality guard than a quality big. Octeus was a huge help and was a 3 before Purdue I believe...they are out there...
Believe we beat out IU and ND for Basil.
Wasn't there an issue with Sampson texting Rob after he committed?
if this happened sooner rather than later in the recruitment (apparently at least spring time), would that have changed any opportunities with other prospects leading into the summer? or did painter begin to have his mind made up on thompson #2 by then you think ?
Painter doesn't seem to share your opinion, as he has spent much more time recruiting wings and bigs this cycle.
Did I see in the box score that Eastern had 9 assists? Holy cow! Even against the Little Sisters of the Blind, that is still a lot of finding the open man in the court. Maybe he will do just fine as a PG.
We've still got 4 scholarships to give for 2018 ! I get kind of tired of people skipping an entire year when the pickings are getting thin and then start talking up the next year will solve everything. That next year the same thing may happen, or Painter may leave, or other factors may come into place. I keep reading of sure locks every year, and then that year comes, and they sign elsewhere. This year is no exception. You should read your posts from last year and the year before always saying the future will be even better. It's time to talk about the present, not 2019 or 2020 and all those top 50 players who will be sure locks.
It's time to talk about 2018 and 2018 recruits. I'm confident we'll have a good class. But we have 4 scholarships to give, not just 1 or 2! It's easy to say Hunter and Castleton. But who else? And please don't tell me we'll be ok if we don't sign anybody because our 2017 class will make up for it. To be successful, you can't have every other class be a good one especially if you have 5 scholarships to use. You will only have 3 scholarships in 2019, so you need to make some good pick-ups in 2018!
My point is we always have those back up plans when a player goes elsewhere, and we always say we weren't interested in him, and we have somebody starting now, so we're not worried. That's not how you build a continually successful program. If we lose out on Hunter, We need a solid 2018 pg, not wait until 2019!
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I'm not big on any of these guys. But we've got to give a scholarship to somebody. We've still got 4 to give out. One of them should go to a pg. What I'd like to know are the answers to two questions. To several posters, if you're not particularly high on a certain recruit, who are you high on, and is he still considering Purdue? I'm high on Langford, but I doubt he has any interest in Purdue. So who is currently out there you like that is a pg that is interested in Purdue? I wasn't high on Phinisee, but he was better than a lot of other alternatives.
My second question is what is your definition of the phrase, "we'll still do just fine" when these elite recruits sign elsewhere? In my opinion, we need to sign some of these elite recruits if we ever expect to be anything better than a sweet 16 team. Is being a sweet 16 team your definition of being just fine? Because, when I look at Purdue now and in the future, that's all I see. I see sweet 16 as our ceiling. A 24 win season and sweet 16! If you want something more, you need quality guys coming off the bench. Sure we'll have Edwards and Eastern. But who will that gritty 6th man be?
You make excuses why Phinisee didn't want to play for Purdue and He'd be a backup, and he wants immediate playing time. Wouldn't that also apply to Hunter and any other 2018 pg or SG we target? I've moved on from Phinisee. But don't the exact same issues apply to Hunter? Isn't he also going to be a backup his first couple of years? Doesn't that also apply to Isiah?
We have 4 scholarships left to give. It's a given, it would be very hard for any 2018 guard to be better and start over Edwards and Eastern as a freshman.
So does that mean we should just stop trying to recruit an elite pg in 2018, and sign some mediocre guy because we know Isiah is a lock in 2019? Is that what you really want to do? Should we quit trying to recruit guys like Langford and Embry because we already have Edwards and Easter, and Isaiah is a Lock? Sure, we'd be fine with what we have in place! But does that mean we should be satisfied with always being a sweet 16 team?
I wasn't sold on Phinisee but we've got to sign somebody.
My second question is what is your definition of the phrase, "we'll still do just fine" when these elite recruits sign elsewhere? In my opinion, we need to sign some of these elite recruits if we ever expect to be anything better than a sweet 16 team. Is being a sweet 16 team your definition of being just fine? Because, when I look at Purdue now and in the future, that's all I see. I see sweet 16 as our ceiling. A 24 win season and sweet 16! If you want something more, you need quality guys coming off the bench. Sure we'll have Edwards and Eastern. But who will that gritty 6th man be?
You make excuses why Phinisee didn't want to play for Purdue and He'd be a backup, and he wants immediate playing time. Wouldn't that also apply to Hunter and any other 2018 pg or SG we target? I've moved on from Phinisee. But don't the exact same issues apply to Hunter? Isn't he also going to be a backup his first couple of years? Doesn't that also apply to Isiah?
We have 4 scholarships left to give. It's a given, it would be very hard for any 2018 guard to be better and start over Edwards and Eastern as a freshman.
So does that mean we should just stop trying to recruit an elite pg in 2018, and sign some mediocre guy because we know Isiah is a lock in 2019? Is that what you really want to do? Should we quit trying to recruit guys like Langford and Embry because we already have Edwards and Easter, and Isaiah is a Lock? Sure, we'd be fine with what we have in place! But does that mean we should be satisfied with always being a sweet 16 team?
I wasn't sold on Phinisee but we've got to sign somebody.
I think you'll see that Eastern can. His passing is outstanding.
You have written some nice things here. I agree we should try very hard to get Langford, Embry and Thompson to commit. However, I wouldn't mind giving the extra schollies to a walkon(s). I wanted to post earlier that RP should have been stubborn enough to walk on to Purdue and win all the playing time he could. But that ship has sailed now and most on here would have treated me like a marshmallow at Halloween.
IMO Hunter will be the first off the bench to give Carsen a break. He could get starting time if he proves more consistent than Cline.
Henry is a good shooter and quick off the bounce so he can create his own. Not sure Rob was at his level and doubtful Painter is playing Rob and Nojel at the same time because Carsen is the only one of the 3 who can shoot.
Painter has shown to create minutes for guys with talent.
We are out on Embery at this point as well as Langford. If for some random reason he puts us in his cut list, I would put forth the effort to get an official but for all intensive purposes, we have 0 chance.
Painter has said the two most important pieces of this class are a C and a guard. With an official from Colin Castleton and hopefully another visit from Hayes and Kisunas we will have that taken care of. I prefer Castleton, Kisunas or Hayes over Dowuona because of their offensive skill set.
As for guard, sometimes you find a diamond in the rough that has a solid senior year. I like Xavies Castenadas who played with Damezi in AAU. Not sure how good of a shooter he is. Also Ahrens would be a good pick up and we are probably waiting to see if we can line up his official.
Certainly Isiah is not a given, but Purdue has to be strong with him. Depending on who is at Purdue I would think Isiah would look hard at Purdue, but some kid is going to jump out this next year under the radar now. When I watched Isiah, he never handled the ball. That doesn't mean he can't because the "best team" zionsville could put out may have meant playing another at the 1.
What do you need in a PG and do you think that is shared with Matt? How difficult is it to find a PG to do what Matt needs versus a big? I watch some video from this recruit or another and it appears to me there is a LOT of talent out there. Finding the fit that is mutual seems to be the issue not finding the talent. Where Purdue is in the spotlight at this time is not having people fall all over themselves to play at Purdue due to other recruits. As Purdue sees the 2017 season unfold, Purdue will have a better feel of what may need added and that player may view Purdue differently than today.
The staff is no doubt working hard and if there were things that may have needed tweaked...I'm sure Lutz has shared his experience. If not I guess we just realize we don't know about those things we are not privy going on. There has not been a guard from Indiana the last few years I was concerned that Purdue didn't get, but there have been a few bigs..and the next one Purdue would love to have is in Fort Wayne for 2019 Keon Brooks. I know nothign about his interest other than every school in the country would like to have him
He might be a troll, but it's a legitimate question and possiblity. Some are talking like we got his commitment already.
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