Where does Purdue sit with Rob Phinesse?
- Thread starter birdforpar
- Start date
Maybe I can play peace-maker here. From what I gather, Deuce says Phinesse is the #1 PG in the state. That is why he thinks of Phinesse as a "must get", right?
1. Others say there are better 2018 PG's on the recruiting board, regardless of what state they come from.
2. Others also say that taking a PG in 2018 might be too soon with PJT, CE and Eastern on board. Better options and better opportunities exist for a 2019 PG.
Neither of these arguments has persuaded Deuce to move from his position, so I think he is convinced Phinesse is the best possible PG we can recruit in the next two years, nation-wide, right? If he wants to hold that belief, I am fine with that. He has watched the kid play and thinks highly of him. We can all agree to disagree if you don't like his position. No need to beat him up about it.
The issue I have is that Deuce also says that if we don't sign him, then there is something wrong with the Purdue program. Here I find my real disagreement, mostly because I buy into the two counter arguments, and I realize recruiting is a two way street - the kid has to want to come to Purdue. Again, I can live with a disagreement with Deuce. I just don't want to see every other thread hi-jacked by wild statements that the program is in trouble and has "problems" because we didn't get the local kid. If we start down that path, all bets are off.
1. Others say there are better 2018 PG's on the recruiting board, regardless of what state they come from.
2. Others also say that taking a PG in 2018 might be too soon with PJT, CE and Eastern on board. Better options and better opportunities exist for a 2019 PG.
Neither of these arguments has persuaded Deuce to move from his position, so I think he is convinced Phinesse is the best possible PG we can recruit in the next two years, nation-wide, right? If he wants to hold that belief, I am fine with that. He has watched the kid play and thinks highly of him. We can all agree to disagree if you don't like his position. No need to beat him up about it.
The issue I have is that Deuce also says that if we don't sign him, then there is something wrong with the Purdue program. Here I find my real disagreement, mostly because I buy into the two counter arguments, and I realize recruiting is a two way street - the kid has to want to come to Purdue. Again, I can live with a disagreement with Deuce. I just don't want to see every other thread hi-jacked by wild statements that the program is in trouble and has "problems" because we didn't get the local kid. If we start down that path, all bets are off.
Therein lies your true intention imo.
If you had said you love Rob, you think he'd be great for the program, he's a heck of a local talent and you'd love to be able to see him play close to home........or anything similar to those points, no one would be arguing with you. The MUST part is the issue.
I don't see a lot of empty seats in Mackey. The program has plenty of local support.
This is more your personal referendum on Painter's recruiting imo....... can he land a local kid.
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I thought DM was discovered on summer circuit after some Indiana guys were not an option ? but hey, it's been awhile....you could be right.
He was offered his junior year of HS and committed the summer following
I agree with much of your assessment. I can't deny that in a different class a better PG could be possible. I'll admit that possibility. However, if you can get a #1, get him is my thinking. When I say there is a problem, I don't necessarily mean some dysfunction. I mean there is a problem if a new to the scene coach at our most hated rival school has that bragging right. To come in our backyard and steal the #1 PG in the state. He could get a ton of publicity and miles from that happening. I just can't get my mind around this not being something you'd have to deal with from that point on. I do not want to see Miller get this trophy to parade and gather momentum with. You think they wouldn't market the hell out of that against us? I know I would. Every recruit in the state would hear that story from me.
sucks to have spent the time and effort last year.
but oh well, hope to land someone better now
I have doubts. I don't know with C Edwards and Eastern being able to play PG, that PG should be a top priority for 2018 or 2019. Yes, I want Painter to target the #1-5 players of Indiana. Who are those top 5 players? Is Phinisee one of them? is he actually the #1 PG in Indiana? Should Painter place Phinisee as a higher priority than a PG who may be more talented from a different state? I'd like to see Painter sign the Indiana Mr. Basketball each year regardless of position. Will he be the Mr. Basketball? Is Phinisee somebody Purdue needs to sign above all other players? Should Painter concentrate on just Indiana players?
I believe IU will make bigger headlines if they sign Romeo than they would signing Phinisee. I think Romeo is a MUST sign for any Indiana school. Romeo has Duke and UK as his top choices. if you want Painter to sign the best talent in the state, to me, you start with Romeo as your #1 priority and Phinisee is a back-up plan !
I'm also kind of against adding more PGs under 6 feet. I'm not a big PJ fan. I want to add size and athleticism to our PG position.
I found it sad Swanigan didn't really attract any elite players to come to Purdue to play with him. When he initially came to Purdue, he changed his mind on the last day, so other players who might have come with him, committed and signed elsewhere. And last year, he really didn't attract any top players to join him. When C Edwards committed, he was a 3 * combo guard that a lot of teams passed over. And now with Swanigan about to leave, I was very surprised no elite PF wanted to come to Purdue to take his place. JJJ could have stepped right in to take his place as could have many other big men who signed elsewhere. Purdue would be a perfect place for Tilmon or McCoy.
the biggest question I have with Phinisee is if he is a guy that could play a more athletic up tempo style of ball? or is he more of the same like Cline and Dakota? Would he be able to contain the top guards of the NCAA? Or when facing the Louisville, Kentucky, Duke and Kansas types of teams, would we see a repeat of this year? Yes, we were blown out by Kansas. But being honest, we were also blown out by Louisville earlier in the year as well. And I have to believe we would have similar results playing against many of the top 10 teams. I'd like to see Purdue change its style of play and type of player. To me, Phinisee seems more like the old style of Painter recruit. I want to see a new style. I want to see a player who can put his team on his back and carry them to a title. Could Phinisee do that? C Edwards and Eastern were those type of players in high school.
I'd like to think of the next great Purdue team being like Stockton and Malone. I want an inside/outside combo. I don't want our top 3 players all being guards.
I admit my desires don't always match reality. I wanted C Edwards to start over PJ. I wanted V Edwards to remain at SF. I wanted JJJ or Malik to replace Biggie at PF. I want a lot of things that I know will never happen.
I believe IU will make bigger headlines if they sign Romeo than they would signing Phinisee. I think Romeo is a MUST sign for any Indiana school. Romeo has Duke and UK as his top choices. if you want Painter to sign the best talent in the state, to me, you start with Romeo as your #1 priority and Phinisee is a back-up plan !
I'm also kind of against adding more PGs under 6 feet. I'm not a big PJ fan. I want to add size and athleticism to our PG position.
I found it sad Swanigan didn't really attract any elite players to come to Purdue to play with him. When he initially came to Purdue, he changed his mind on the last day, so other players who might have come with him, committed and signed elsewhere. And last year, he really didn't attract any top players to join him. When C Edwards committed, he was a 3 * combo guard that a lot of teams passed over. And now with Swanigan about to leave, I was very surprised no elite PF wanted to come to Purdue to take his place. JJJ could have stepped right in to take his place as could have many other big men who signed elsewhere. Purdue would be a perfect place for Tilmon or McCoy.
the biggest question I have with Phinisee is if he is a guy that could play a more athletic up tempo style of ball? or is he more of the same like Cline and Dakota? Would he be able to contain the top guards of the NCAA? Or when facing the Louisville, Kentucky, Duke and Kansas types of teams, would we see a repeat of this year? Yes, we were blown out by Kansas. But being honest, we were also blown out by Louisville earlier in the year as well. And I have to believe we would have similar results playing against many of the top 10 teams. I'd like to see Purdue change its style of play and type of player. To me, Phinisee seems more like the old style of Painter recruit. I want to see a new style. I want to see a player who can put his team on his back and carry them to a title. Could Phinisee do that? C Edwards and Eastern were those type of players in high school.
I'd like to think of the next great Purdue team being like Stockton and Malone. I want an inside/outside combo. I don't want our top 3 players all being guards.
I admit my desires don't always match reality. I wanted C Edwards to start over PJ. I wanted V Edwards to remain at SF. I wanted JJJ or Malik to replace Biggie at PF. I want a lot of things that I know will never happen.
or in other words, I'm still worried about this year to care about next year's class. Give me a Brooks, McCoy or Tilmon, and I could care less who Painter signs next year.
Archie and IU will be losing their top three rotation-minutes guards after this season; Blackmon (who is probably gone sooner), RJohnson, and Newkirk.
Archie's recruiting is heavily prioritizing four 2018 guards (in no particular order): Phinisee, Darius Garland, Romeo, and Eric Hunter, in hopes of getting two of them to IU. I believe (based on sources, not personal inside info) that IU has a real chance with all four, and that Phinisee and Hunter are a slightly higher likelihood than the others.
Garland a real chance too, with an official visit almost guaranteed. If Phinisee wants to guarantee "point guard of the future" status at IU, he's probably going to need to weigh whether IU has a real shot with Garland, and if he thinks so, beat Garland through the door with a fall commitment. Romeo will be very difficult, though IU will likely get an official visit.
You realize that the #1 PG in the state many times is a mid major talent, right?
Just saying....
Top IN PG-
2018 - Phinisee - 97
2017 - Scruggs -Xavier 30 (left the state his senior year for prep school, but is still considered an Indiana kid)
2016 - Kyle Guy (combo guard at 36) Virginia, or true PG - CJ Walker Florida State 130
2015 - Jalen Coleman-Lands - Illinois - 37
2014 - Bryant McIntosh - Northwestern - 207 , but Blackmon was 20 as a SG.
2013 - Demetrius Jackson - Notre Dame - 34
2012 - Yogi - IU - 21 The class also had Gary Harris who was listed as a SG at 19
2011 - Marquis Teague - Kentucky - 7
2010 - Terone Johnson - Purdue - 67
About 4 of those kids aren't true points. We could call Langford a point by those standards, in which case Phinisee isn't the top PG in the class.
It wasn't even quite to that summer: May 6th, 2013:
https://purdue.rivals.com/commitments/basketball/2014
I think MP is not as worried about Phinisee bc he thinks he has PJs little brother locked up if need be.
Not sure where he got 97 for Phinisee. He's at 122. And Eastern at 91 is yet another reason why Phinisee isn't a must get. It's not an absolute requirement that you get a PG in each class and Eastern can absolutely play the point in the motion offense.
They also list him at a SF which plays into their rankings. We didn't recruit him to play SF.
I get you think Phinisee is a must get and have made your case but it just isn't in the cards.
End of the day, there are much better PG options in 19 (Francis, Campbell, Bieniemy and Thompson) and 20 with Tayson.
Will note that Campbell is nearly wrapped up for MSU and Francis OSU has got to be thought of as the leader for Francis.
Not saying we need to get Phinisee.
Just clarifying the situations
I figured Francis would be a tough one because of the legacy but figured with them being terrible recently he might be open to creating his own legacy.
Wasn't in the know about Campbell being MSUs to lose but that makes sense.
Thanks for the info
Francis is certainly a possibility but from reports all over, his parents were thrilled about the offer and he's being pitched the idea of being in the core group to bring OSU back to prominence
I got it from 247, since that is where I pulled the information from the other players.
And all the players listed were either combo guard or point guard. I listed the SGs that were highly rated as well, but I specified. Langford is a 6'5 SG and calling him a pg would be like calling Mathias a PG (which, ironically enough, he has played). Langford was not listed as a PG or a combo guard, therefor he was not included. Kyle Guy was listed as a combo guard, but not really considered one, so I mentioned him, but also mentioned the PG behind him. Where a player ends up playing depends on the team. For example, Biggie is a 4. He, however, started at 5 all season last year. Eastern is by all accounts a wing based on his size, but he wants to play pg. Purdue doesn't really use a true pg in their offense, so it is a good fit. Some of the above guys may have played the 2, but that was a result of their team composition. Every player I listed (even the kid outside 200) went to a P5 school.
I didn't list Eastern becauae he isn't an Indiana PG.
Got it. Thought that might be the case.
So in that case @boiler-deuce, the comparable number is 67, which is what Eastern is on 247.
I am glad this discussion evolved into a more civil discussion. Thanks to all.
Maybe the biggest issue with Phinesse going somewhere else is that he is a local kid, and the school recruiting him can say they stole him from Purdue. I get that. It is a mater of bragging rights, to a degree. As for me, I just want the best players we can get on the team.
Maybe the biggest issue with Phinesse going somewhere else is that he is a local kid, and the school recruiting him can say they stole him from Purdue. I get that. It is a mater of bragging rights, to a degree. As for me, I just want the best players we can get on the team.
I want the kid from Miami. An under the radar player who has great athleticism and appears to be a rim protector type of player.
I guess Collins should apologize to every NU fan for losing Eastern to Purdue then...like you said, kids leave their hometown all the time.
It hasn't been considered "stealing" a kid from the local school is a long long time.
Kids haven't stayed local for the most part for years and years. It's the evolution of recruiting. AAU travels all over the country and coaches fly from all over to watch them, USA basketball gives kids opportunities to play in and against other countries, Adidas Nations, social media, YouTube etc. Kids get seen today by a lot more people than they used to.
IMO, a kid can only be stolen from a program if the program all but had him signed or committed and someone else swooped in last second and took them. Dawson or Zeller situations. Those guys are stolen.
Phinisee is just another Indiana kid. Was never locked up.
But I wholeheartedly agree with you on that last part. I don't care where the kid is from or what kids from the state go out of state as long as we are getting good players that make Purdue better and can take them to consistent success year after year. I wouldn't love Vince, Dakota, Carsen or Haas anymore if they had been from Indiana. We just need to land good players consistently.
Here's the thing...if Phinisee lived in any of those towns...he likely wouldn't be good enough for their program. That's the reality of who those guys are recruiting and who Purdue is recruiting.
I wouldn't call Dowuona "under the radar." Low rated or low ranked, maybe.
But he's got offers from Miami and Uconn and Louisville and Virginia have been in to see him often and likely close to offering. That's not really under the radar.
Your examples of Dawson and Zeller also point out what can happen when you spend too much time recruiting local kids. Painter isn't going to put all his eggs in the Phinisee basket. He has a offer and Purdue has shown due diligence in recruiting him. He commits or he doesn't. I liked CJ Walker a lot but after seeing Carsen it quickly became CJ who?
While it's nice to have a home town star play for a team, I've never really known Painter to recruit a player based on their home town or high school. I believe he follows certain AAU teams as much as he does high schools. Painter recruited JJJ hard. and he recruits La Lum hard, and he signed Sasha, but I don't see him limiting himself or his program to just Indiana basketball players.
Will Painter make signing Phinisee a top priority? Or will he treat him like Sasha and make an offer if he has an extra one to give? I don't know. it's always nice to have a commitment from a top 150 recruit. Painter has already given out a lot of offers. At what time do you expect to start seeing player verbal commitments ?
Will Painter make signing Phinisee a top priority? Or will he treat him like Sasha and make an offer if he has an extra one to give? I don't know. it's always nice to have a commitment from a top 150 recruit. Painter has already given out a lot of offers. At what time do you expect to start seeing player verbal commitments ?
