In 6 years, Kareem Abdul Jabbar only won 1 championship for the Bucks . I don't consider him a bust
Kent Benson, on the other hand , in the minds of many was a total bust. Looking back he had an ok career.
Romeo Langford
- Thread starter Broncos16
- Start date
In 6 years, Kareem Abdul Jabbar only won 1 championship for the Bucks . I don't consider him a bust
Kent Benson, on the other hand , in the minds of many was a total bust. Looking back he had an ok career.
Good chance it would have been two, Wole, if not for Lucius Allen's injury in '74. In addition to ROY in '70, NBA MVP for '71,'72, and '74. NBA Finals MVP ('71).
Ironically the start of Kent Benson's NBA career ('78 season) infamously intersected with Kareem with an altercation resulting in a retaliation punch breaking Benson's jaw and Abdul-Jabbar's hand. First two minutes of the season in the days before Sportscenter and the internet.
If you read my initial post on the subject carefully, I pointed out that early draftees do not have careers that justify a #1 in the draft choice. Imo, Rose is an example. He is not a "bust" in that he did not have a career, but rather in a relative sense that the career did not match the #1 in the draft status. Looking at the #1s that did well, they were often "big men" that had the bodies that were able to tolerate the physicality that is the NBA. Btw, Simmons does not strike me as that physique.
Rose is an example of someone whose body broke down pretty quickly. I am not sufficiently interested to do the research but how the others in that draft did would be of note. I say this as someone who watches very, very, very few NBA games as I find them uninteresting for the most part.
Rose is an example of someone whose body broke down pretty quickly. I am not sufficiently interested to do the research but how the others in that draft did would be of note. I say this as someone who watches very, very, very few NBA games as I find them uninteresting for the most part.
Westbrook went 4th, Love 5th, Gordon 7th, Augustin 9th.....further down the list for value was Serge Ibaka 24th and Roy Hibbert 17th.
DeAndre Jordan was a 2nd round pick.
Some notables who may have not been considered to live up to the hype:
Beasley (2)
OJ Mayo (3)
Gallinari (6)
Joe Alexander (8) *(sorry Wole, another Bucks' pick)
I cried that night! The Alexander pick was worse than the Przyybilla pick, the tractor traylor pick over Dirk and Paul Pierce, the Vaughn pick, the thon pick, the Yi pick Picking Bogut over CP3 !
The bucks were about to pick GS's Thompson, but he went 1-2 picks ahead, and they panicked and picked Alexander.
it's ok, they were about to trade Bogut for Stephen Curry but instead chose the healthier Monta Ellis.
KIDD IS FIRED TODAY. finally a Bucks GM who knows something .
TwinDegrees2All-American
Time for B10 predictions....
It may be the orangecello, the freezing temps, or boredom but here we go....Predicting the winners and losers.
TIE....Purdue and MSU for the title I like PU's chances, but the Sparty's have a lot of talent. Depends on guard play for both teams.
- Minnesota...Minny, Michigan, and Maryland could wind up in this spot.
- Michigan
- Maryland
- OSU Playing very well under the new staff.
- Wisky Surprisingly much weaker than the past few years.
- PSU This may the year of the Nittany Lion to surprise a lot of folks. Solid team.
- Northwestern If McIntosh can get on track, they'll make the show again.
- Illinois New coach and new system. They'll surprise a few teams.
- Nebraska The Huskers, Hawkeyes, Ooooosiers, and Rutgers battle to stay out of the bottom.
- Iowa
- Indiana
- Rutgers
Indiana is now 5-3 in conference; sole possession of fifth place in conference. Pre-season Twin had them at thirteenth; apparently that's what he means when he recently "honestly" posted his pre-post-mortem prediction of "honestly thought IU might be better this year.". In that entire thread the most optimistic prediction for IU in conference was 11th place.
Purdue is having a GREAT year, but Archie Miller also is sure as heck proving that he can effectively coach his team. This IU team is not great, but it IS exceeding expectations.
Last edited:
JM, season is not over. The league is bunched in the middle. Too soon to criticize imo.
Season is not over, but I am already reasonably confident that:
- Purdue will be at or next to the top of the conference, and there is little that will change that dynamic.
- IU will win at least as many conference games as last year (seven) with essentially the same roster, minus Thomas Bryant, OG Anunoby, James Blackmon, and DeRon Davis. In other words; exceeding expectations.
Who does he start over, senior and future NBA player Vince Edwards? Unlikely that happens, and it is probably one of the reasons he chose MSU. Not many minutes for him given how many seniors we have this year.
From someone who is not a fan of either Purdue or IU I honestly don't see IU being top 10 relevant under Archie Miller. Feels like something that is very similar to Nebraska football. Miller could very well do a good job and win a Big Ten title here and there but I think he wont be able to compete with the Duke/UK/KU/UNC like Indiana fans think he will be able to do in years time. Its a program that lives on there past and has been irrelevant for a long time, just my two cents
I'm not saying it didn't turn out well for us, but 100% if he chose Purdue he would have been starting.
JJJ = 10 mins at c 10 mins at PF
leaving 25 min for Haas at c and 5 mins for Haarms at c
Edwards having 25 mins at PF and Haarms with 5 mins at PF
Edwards with 5 minutes at sf taking those minutes from Dakota and cline
A look at MSU and JJJ is only playing 20-25 minutes we could have easily found at least 20 mins with our regulars giving up about 3 mins the players most affected would be Grady Taylor and cline
leaving 25 min for Haas at c and 5 mins for Haarms at c
Edwards having 25 mins at PF and Haarms with 5 mins at PF
Edwards with 5 minutes at sf taking those minutes from Dakota and cline
A look at MSU and JJJ is only playing 20-25 minutes we could have easily found at least 20 mins with our regulars giving up about 3 mins the players most affected would be Grady Taylor and cline
Can't tell if you are trolling... JJJ is 6'10" and can easily play center in college. Biggie did it last year at 6'8". Saying he could have started over PJ obviously meant Carsen at the 1, Mathias at the 2, Vince at the 3, JJJ at the 4, and Haas at the 5.
Strive to be better at comprehending things. I believe in you.
Rather than saying JJJ would play at center, let's say, when he plays, he'd take minutes away from Haas. Haarms plays both center and PF, as did biggie last year. There was a game this year where Grady played a couple of minutes at center.
I could see Purdue going small ball with JJJ, and having a line-up of Edwards, PJ, Dakota, Edwards and JJJ.
I could also see against MSU and Michigan and UW a big ball line-up of Haas, JJJ guarding Mo, Edwards, and PJ, Edwards and Dakota splitting time in the backcourt.
If JJJ came to Purdue, Ewing would not have. JJJ would probably have taken almost all of Grady and Taylor's minutes. he would have taken about 5 of Haas' minutes, and maybe 5 of V Edwards and Haarms' minutes.
The biggest difference I see is when Purdue is leading by 20 and playing garbage time , JJJ and Eastern would be leading the charge and become the focus. I could see JJJ being the first big man off the bench instead of Haarms. i could also see Painter incorporating a twin towers of Haas and JJJ more against certain teams.
I don't believe JJJ would have been a starter this year, or a major factor or impact player. But i believe if his plan was to be one and done, he'd have 20 minutes a game to display his talents. And maybe like Biggie and Bridges, he might have decided to stay a second year and become a star. if JJJ came to Purdue this year and stayed another year, I have to believe he'd be a lottery pick. Looking at the current draft projections, he may decide to stay at MSU for 2 years. he definitely has flaws in his game that could be corrected.
I could see Purdue going small ball with JJJ, and having a line-up of Edwards, PJ, Dakota, Edwards and JJJ.
I could also see against MSU and Michigan and UW a big ball line-up of Haas, JJJ guarding Mo, Edwards, and PJ, Edwards and Dakota splitting time in the backcourt.
If JJJ came to Purdue, Ewing would not have. JJJ would probably have taken almost all of Grady and Taylor's minutes. he would have taken about 5 of Haas' minutes, and maybe 5 of V Edwards and Haarms' minutes.
The biggest difference I see is when Purdue is leading by 20 and playing garbage time , JJJ and Eastern would be leading the charge and become the focus. I could see JJJ being the first big man off the bench instead of Haarms. i could also see Painter incorporating a twin towers of Haas and JJJ more against certain teams.
I don't believe JJJ would have been a starter this year, or a major factor or impact player. But i believe if his plan was to be one and done, he'd have 20 minutes a game to display his talents. And maybe like Biggie and Bridges, he might have decided to stay a second year and become a star. if JJJ came to Purdue this year and stayed another year, I have to believe he'd be a lottery pick. Looking at the current draft projections, he may decide to stay at MSU for 2 years. he definitely has flaws in his game that could be corrected.
Surprise....the conference s much weaker than any thought. And...need I remind you the season is far from over.
TwinDegrees2All-American
Time for B10 predictions....
It may be the orangecello, the freezing temps, or boredom but here we go....Predicting the winners and losers.
TIE....Purdue and MSU for the title I like PU's chances, but the Sparty's have a lot of talent. Depends on guard play for both teams.
_____________________________________________________________
- Minnesota...Minny, Michigan, and Maryland could wind up in this spot.
- Michigan
- Maryland
- OSU Playing very well under the new staff.
- Wisky Surprisingly much weaker than the past few years.
- PSU This may the year of the Nittany Lion to surprise a lot of folks. Solid team.
- Northwestern If McIntosh can get on track, they'll make the show again.
- Illinois New coach and new system. They'll surprise a few teams.
- Nebraska The Huskers, Hawkeyes, Ooooosiers, and Rutgers battle to stay out of the bottom.
- Iowa
- Indiana
- Rutgers
Indiana is now 5-3 in conference; sole possession of fifth place in conference. Pre-season Twin had them at thirteenth; apparently that's what he means when he recently "honestly" posted his pre-post-mortem prediction of "honestly thought IU might be better this year.". In that entire thread the most optimistic prediction for IU in conference was 11th place.
Purdue is having a GREAT year, but Archie Miller also is sure as heck proving that he can effectively coach his team. This IU team is not great, but it IS exceeding expectations.
The problem at IU is that they caught lightning in a bottle with Knight. He made them a national power. He's long gone and with him went the lightning. The fans still think IU is special because they're IU and can't accept that their prominence was primarily because of Knight. Believing another savior is riding back into Bloomington is likely futile. They can be a consistently good program in the future but their return to what they believe to be "elite" status is unlikely.
One word....Parity. Unless Lil' Archie can buy enough players of Duke caliber, that next National title at IU is a long way off.
Illini just got their first conference win against the magnificently coached Lil' Archie Hoosiers. Sure looked good to me.
TwinDegrees2All-American
Time for B10 predictions....
It may be the orangecello, the freezing temps, or boredom but here we go....Predicting the winners and losers.
TIE....Purdue and MSU for the title I like PU's chances, but the Sparty's have a lot of talent. Depends on guard play for both teams.
_____________________________________________________________
- Minnesota...Minny, Michigan, and Maryland could wind up in this spot.
- Michigan
- Maryland
- OSU Playing very well under the new staff.
- Wisky Surprisingly much weaker than the past few years.
- PSU This may the year of the Nittany Lion to surprise a lot of folks. Solid team.
- Northwestern If McIntosh can get on track, they'll make the show again.
- Illinois New coach and new system. They'll surprise a few teams.
- Nebraska The Huskers, Hawkeyes, Ooooosiers, and Rutgers battle to stay out of the bottom.
- Iowa
- Indiana
- Rutgers
Indiana is now 5-3 in conference; sole possession of fifth place in conference. Pre-season Twin had them at thirteenth; apparently that's what he means when he recently "honestly" posted his pre-post-mortem prediction of "honestly thought IU might be better this year.". In that entire thread the most optimistic prediction for IU in conference was 11th place.
Purdue is having a GREAT year, but Archie Miller also is sure as heck proving that he can effectively coach his team. This IU team is not great, but it IS exceeding expectations.
If Lagerald Vick leaves Kansas early Romeo will be at KU. That's why he hasn't committed to either IU or Vanderbilt yet.
A couple of your best posts EVER (and that's saying quite a bit).
You (in chron order):
- Predict IU at thirteenth, and then
- Mock them when they lose a game (saying you "thought they'd be better"). No...you thought they'd be thirteenth.
- Then, when they get to 5-3 in conference, and at 9:22 last night with IU winning again, blame it on a weak conference (that you thought they'd finish thirteenth in), and finally
- When they drop to 5-4, and after 11:00 last night? The parity line is gone, it's time for condescending "looked good", "magnificently coached".
I gotta tell you, I know I'm off topic, but your stuff gave me a good laugh; these are keep n' save hall of fame posts by the iconic Twin!
You guys (rightfully) mock Peegs for all of this type of silliness - I find them all really entertaining.
BTW; there are two free IU boards that are MUCH MUCH better - moderated well and full of real B1G hoops talk: the Hoosier Sports Nation board and BtownBanners. I believe that either board would welcome a well-intentioned, intelligent Purdue poster.
Last edited:
Well, I'm certainly glad you got a chuckle. So let's set it straight:
- I did base IU at 13th. Where I failed is thinking the conference would be a whole lot better than it is. Right now, there might be four teams make the dance. Who would have thought Md would be as bad, or Wisky, or NW, and the Illini were prediicted to be much improved...a team with an alleged ton of talent that last night won their first league game. All the pundits were saying this was going to be Chambers break out year at Happy Valley, and Iowa and Minny were both predicted to be in the top tier. So, there's that part of it. I will give you that IU's current status and record does surprise me, but it's based not on IU playing so well, but by all the others playing so poorly. If you believe IU is playing well because they're better, you're watching a different IU team. Right now, there are four or five teams predicted to finish ahead of IU, lower in the standings with better overall records. The last half may be a killer for your "improved" Hoosiers.
- As far as being an IU fan... huge until they fired Knight. Davis was a horrible coach, not very smart, who stabbed his boss in the back to get the job. Then, here comes ol' Kelvin who was a know cheater. And then...Clappy. I quit being an IU fan after about a year of listening to Mike Davis and predicted all three would fail at IU as each were hired. I personally thought Dakich did a good enough job that he should have been hired before Crean. And he was an IU guy.
- Problem for IU and the now fans is that they don't understand what Branch and Knight were, and that now...with parity as a part of the equation, IU is now just another program...they're not relevant any more. They're not feared and no one "gets up for IU".
- As for Archie, he'll win some games with suspect players as he had often at Dayton, but he's never going to be a Knight or Branch. I wouldn't book reservations for a NCAA final unless you just want to go. Heck, I even rooted for Lil' Archie and Dayton in their one run...but I usually go for the under dog.
- Clappy wasn't/isn't a bad guy...but he was a horrible coach...who acted like a total buffoon. IU is reaping what they have sown by firing Knight. I hope it continues for a long time and the Knight curse will continue.
Last edited:
JM, I think that you are being a bit unfair to Twin. Looking at the B1G standings as of today, IU is in the middle of the board. However, they are in the process of a string of hard games and could drop quite a few in a row. If that is the case, they will fall in the standings dramatically.
Given the weakness of many teams in the B1G, it would not surprise me if at the end of the regular season to have one game separating 9th from 13th. If that is the case, is there really a difference in the standings? One game separation is trivial and predictions are estimates that have an inherent factor that can be fairly large. At that point luck plays into the outcome of a game with a simple play determining win or loss and a great deal of variance.
There is a lot that can happen in the meanwhile so I would not be giving anyone grief about their predictions as of this time. The only prediction that I can think of that was way off was SNU's comment that there was no way Purdue would be good this year as they could not compensate for the loss of Swanigan. I think that we can say that is clearly in error.
Given the weakness of many teams in the B1G, it would not surprise me if at the end of the regular season to have one game separating 9th from 13th. If that is the case, is there really a difference in the standings? One game separation is trivial and predictions are estimates that have an inherent factor that can be fairly large. At that point luck plays into the outcome of a game with a simple play determining win or loss and a great deal of variance.
There is a lot that can happen in the meanwhile so I would not be giving anyone grief about their predictions as of this time. The only prediction that I can think of that was way off was SNU's comment that there was no way Purdue would be good this year as they could not compensate for the loss of Swanigan. I think that we can say that is clearly in error.
Appreciate your saneness arc, and maybe a bit of hyperbole on my part, but the rapid constant contradictions are more than a bit funny to me. When thecontradictions are laid out, that routinely is followed (finally) by a Twin post full of nicely written, fact-based "if only I had knowns" like this:
"I did base IU at 13th. Where I failed is thinking the conference would be a whole lot better than it is. Right now, there might be four teams make the dance. Who would have thought Md would be as bad, or Wisky, or NW, and the Illini were prediicted to be much improved...a team with an alleged ton of talent that last night won their first league game. All the pundits were saying this was going to be Chambers break out year at Happy Valley, and Iowa and Minny were both predicted to be in the top tier. So, there's that part of it. I will give you that IU's current status and record does surprise me, but it's based not on IU playing so well, but by all the others playing so poorly. If you believe IU is playing well because they're better, you're watching a different IU team."
That kind of stuff is in the hall of fame of the irrationally irrational. Every fan base has those posters - Peegs is stocked with them too. Some good posters everywhere too.
Last edited:
Actually, picking IU to be near the bottom was reasonable considering the players coming back this year. I also would have predicted Maryland, Iowa, Wisconsin, Penn State, and Minnesota to be ahead of IU this year, considering your roster. The fact that you are ahead of these teams, so far, is a tribute to some pretty good coaching. I also think some injuries and some suspensions, plus a very favorable early schedule have helped as well.
After Sunday, I wish you guys the best of luck (seriously!). However, you face Purdue, Ohio State x 2, MSU, and Nebraska. Finishing near the bottom is still a highly likely possibility. If I were you, I would not yet make fun of someone that predicted a poor finish that might still happen.
Similar threads
