Our nation's COVID-19 response is a disaster !

[MJ-79Boiler]

How, exactly?

For starters, he will pursue tests which are actually accurate and fast so we can quarantine people before each cluster spins out of control (like is happening now)

He will utilize the defense act to build and source what we need here in the U.S., versus assume the virus will magically go away. (After 7 months we STILL do NOT have the supplies we need.)

He will then establish a platform for leading scientists to share the TRUTH (there's a new concept) with the American people and allow them to speak freely which will dramatically improve the confidence in our experts and what they want us to do to get out of this mess.

He will listen to the FDA and other experts, versus push an agenda not founded in facts, like bleach, like Hydroxychloroquine, like a big breakthrough annuncement and pre-approval of plasma therapy only to have experts say it's not ready. (using up any confidence people had left in our current leaders.)

He will actually model the behavior needed (ie mask wearing, social distancing, shutting down major covid spreader events economic shutdowns as needed to make the case loads manageable, versus assuming it can't be done. (other countries have already proved that it can) A leader always gets better results than someone who can't maintain credibility.

He will let all major vaccine and therapy ideas to compete fairly versus picking winners and trying to financially benefit from the ones selected.

Etc..

Bottom line: By using science, past lessons learned on process control, obtaining better/faster measurements so we aren't flying blind and then putting in place the supplies, guidelines and conditions required to slow the increase in cases and then ACTUALLY following them will make a BIG difference. It is also the best chance at restarting our economy. As long as we have 30,000 cases/day we are dead in the water !

The alternative is chaos worse than we have now. (As more people are layed off and our government goes further into debt) That looks like a depression to me and full-fledged riots when more people die and kids go hungry)

If you disagree, tell me how Trump is going to make it go away in the next 2-3 years and how it WILL NOT exceed the deaths seen in world war II ? (something which I see as a given with him still in office) Also tell me how we are going to convince enough people to take ANY vaccine when he has NO CREDIBILITY - ZERO ! ! My family won't take anything coming out of HIS experts - it's snake oil ! Tell me HOW he is going to get the economy going again ! Opening up businesses will NOT make people come. Opening up schools will NOT provide good education when the teachers get sick, retire or change jobs.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

For starters, he will pursue tests which are actually accurate and fast so we can quarantine people before each cluster spins out of control (like is happening now) Ever hear of Roche or Abbott Laboratories?

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

1. The vaccine will be out in early December which will all but eliminate the virus in the US. There will be some anti Vaxxers/Trumpers that will refuse to get the vaccine, and will therefore put themselves and their families at risk for more Covid deaths (even though there is less than 10,000 deaths that were directly attributed to Covid according to the CDC).

2. You claim more and more people are losing their jobs, which is a lie. There has been way more people gaining employment each month than losing it. That will continue as we get closer to the vaccine.

3. Is it true that you got laughed off KHC for posting hysterical BS like this? Lol

If you mean Trump's miracle vaccine - then I agree. However, the vaccine will be snake oil - NOT taking it ! It will be NO better than all the others, including bleach. A liar Lies ! ! This will be no different for the orange man

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

Ha ha ha - Sure. Aren't they the ones who have been trying to come up with a solution so far?? Not sure it's working - maybe they should outsource it. (South Korea knows how to do it)

 

[New Pal Boiler]

If you mean Trump's miracle vaccine - then I agree. However, the vaccine will be snake oil - NOT taking it ! It will be NO better than all the others, including bleach. A liar Lies ! ! This will be no different for the orange man

You. Need. Help.

 

[ecouch]

Aaaaaand hes broken.

 

[FeistyBoiler]

For **** sakes. “I don’t want to get COvid but I don’t want the vaccine. I think I’ll just let it play out another couple years. **** the economy, **** other people’s lives getting back to normal, I’ll just wear my stupid ****ing masks to my grave.r

The vaccine will have been tested for safety on thousands of individuals. Efficacy will be the key however. They’re not going to give a vaccine that does more harm than good.

 

[BNIBoiler]

They’re not going to give a vaccine that does more harm than good.

That is exactly what they are doing. President Slick forced the FDA to get this vaccine out prior to finishing the clinical trials. He wanted this vaccine out before the election.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

That is exactly what they are doing. President Slick forced the FDA to get this vaccine out prior to finishing the clinical trials. He wanted this vaccine out before the election.

Explain how he’s forcing Pfizer or Moderna to bring the vaccine to market, or how he’s forcing anyone to get it.

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

For someone who thinks he is F-ing genius, we just went past 6.5 million cases and about 194,000 deaths. I find it hillarious that you think his vaccine will help. Kind of like saying . . THIS month . . he will get it right - after failing since Feb. NOT a believer, . . but by all means, run right out and sign up for your shots ! (It's Darwin in motion.)

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

It is Darwin in motion. The people who are dumb enough not to get the vaccine could very well lose their lives because of it. Survival of the fittest at its finest.

BTW, according to the CDC there are 176k covid related deaths, not 194k. Try to post some facts from now on.

Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

Like I previously said - focus on what you know Pete - This isn't it.

John Hopkins is the gold standard. (They can't be bought or influenced by the orange man - just FACTS)

https://corona.help/

PS Getting close to 200,000 deaths Pete - STILL feel comfortable with that 250,000 death prediction at the end of January???? I am NOT sure any expertise is showing !

PSS That TRUMP vaccine won't help you - it may just kill more people

 

[Riveting]

Without reading through the 454 posts in this thread, did anyone along the way have any good ideas of what the US should have done differently? Asking because Biden seems to agree the response was a disaster, but doesn't seem able to articulate what should have been done differently - so it might help him if someone has some ideas. Maybe a practical suggestion or two - such as not forcing nursing homes to accept active covid patients, that kind of thing? Joe needs all the help and ideas he can get.

 

[Purdue4Life]

Without reading through the 454 posts in this thread, did anyone along the way have any good ideas of what the US should have done differently? Asking because Biden seems to agree the response was a disaster, but doesn't seem able to articulate what should have been done differently - so it might help him if someone has some ideas. Maybe a practical suggestion or two - such as not forcing nursing homes to accept active covid patients, that kind of thing? Joe needs all the help and ideas he can get.

Maybe it would have helped if Trump didn't get rid of the team in the Wuhan lab it originated in as well as disband the pandemic response team. Got rid of both just because Obama put them together.

 

[PA Boilermakers]

For someone who thinks he is F-ing genius, we just went past 6.5 million cases and about 194,000 deaths. I find it hillarious that you think his vaccine will help. Kind of like saying . . THIS month . . he will get it right - after failing since Feb. NOT a believer, . . but by all means, run right out and sign up for your shots ! (It's Darwin in motion.)

6.5 million cases??? That's a lie. Infections, yes, but not cases. All cases are infections, but not all infections are cases. And of the deaths that you're so fond of providing us with a daily update with, what percentage do you think does the CDC say occurred from the virus alone?

 

[PA Boilermakers]

Maybe it would have helped if Trump didn't get rid of the team in the Wuhan lab it originated in as well as disband the pandemic response team. Got rid of both just because Obama put them together.

Tim Morrison, former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the NSC, wrote in another Washington Post Op-Ed, “It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. … One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled” ( here ).

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

6.5 million cases??? That's a lie. Infections, yes, but not cases. All cases are infections, but not all infections are cases. And of the deaths that you're so fond of providing us with a daily update with, what percentage do you think does the CDC say occurred from the virus alone?

No . . THAT is a LIE ! ! . . . but you folks are used to living your lives based on LIES

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

I'll stick to the CDC, thanks.

Yes, I still feel comfortable that there will be less than 250k deaths come February 1st.

By all means, don't get the vaccine.

I WON'T . . and neither will any member of my family. Did you here about the Astrozeneca vaccine halted ! Seems someone came down with a inflammatory spinal chord. Wow . . aren't these supposed to be really well thought out drugs??

STEP RIGHT UP PETE ! ! - There are a few other vaccines where they are looking for volunteers, I mean SUCKERS, to take ! ! (But you have to hurry, or you will be back to BLEACH ! Ha ha ha ha )

 

[PA Boilermakers]

No . . THAT is a LIE ! ! . . . but you folks are used to living your lives based on LIES

Please explain to all of us the difference between the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) and the Case Fatality Rate (CFR)

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

Tim Morrison, former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the NSC, wrote in another Washington Post Op-Ed, “It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. … One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled” ( here ).

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ! ! ha ha ha ha Something tells me you will jump off a bridge if the right guy tells you that you can really FLY ! Give it a shot if you want

Bottom line: He broke up the group that followed science and had some brains and replaced them with people he trusts (ie The tin man, the lion and the scarecrow)

 

[PA Boilermakers]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ! ! ha ha ha ha Something tells me you will jump off a bridge if the right guy tells you that you can really FLY ! Give it a shot if you want

Bottom line: He broke up the group that followed science and had some brains and replaced them with people he trusts (ie The tin man, the lion and the scarecrow)

Please explain to all of us the difference between the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) and the Case Fatality Rate (CFR)

Crickets from MJ

 

[SqueakyClean]

And of the deaths that you're so fond of providing us with a daily update with, what percentage do you think does the CDC say occurred from the virus alone?

This is the supposed "bombshell" that went out last week that is being completely misunderstood.
Someone asked the question to someone from the CDC as to "what percentage of death certificates have COVID-19 as the sole reason for death" and that person responded to it being a low percentage (it was something like 6% or 16%).
A death certificate will list multiple items for cause of death. I am going to steal a response from the IU message board:
"You can die from a gun shot wound and the death certificate may also say it was from blood loss.
You can die from a car accident and the death certificate may also say it was from head trauma.
You can die from AIDS and the death certificate may also say it was from pneumonia.
You can die from COVID-19 and the death certificate may also say it was from pneumonia, multiple organ failure, or a heart attack. "
The death certificates that ONLY list COVID as the cause of death are likely just cases where they could not immediately identify the other contributing factors.

The bottom line is that at least 40 to 45% of Americans have at least one preexisting condition that the virus will use to attack you.

This is not just a bad flu.

That same IU post had this:
"
My cousin recently retired after a long career as an MD. He summed it up:

As a primary care internal medicine physician for about 40 years I filled out many death certificates. My patients were mostly over age 60. The specific cause of death is listed first. At the bottom of the certificate we list all underlying conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, COPD, infection, etc. These are the comorbidities, which in the case of COVID19 are now well known. So this "news" is that only a small number of people dying of COVID19 appear to have no known comorbidities. Or, more likely, a small number of doctors were not following instructions, since all those dying of COVID19 are very likely to be displaying outcomes the disease that ought to be noted for the record, such as respiratory failure or clotting disorders, and in fact may have been the proximal cause of death by COVID19. "

 

[PA Boilermakers]

This is the supposed "bombshell" that went out last week that is being completely misunderstood.
Someone asked the question to someone from the CDC as to "what percentage of death certificates have COVID-19 as the sole reason for death" and that person responded to it being a low percentage (it was something like 6% or 16%).
A death certificate will list multiple items for cause of death. I am going to steal a response from the IU message board:
"You can die from a gun shot wound and the death certificate may also say it was from blood loss.
You can die from a car accident and the death certificate may also say it was from head trauma.
You can die from AIDS and the death certificate may also say it was from pneumonia.
You can die from COVID-19 and the death certificate may also say it was from pneumonia, multiple organ failure, or a heart attack. "
The death certificates that ONLY list COVID as the cause of death are likely just cases where they could not immediately identify the other contributing factors.

The bottom line is that at least 40 to 45% of Americans have at least one preexisting condition that the virus will use to attack you.

This is not just a bad flu.

That same IU post had this:
"
My cousin recently retired after a long career as an MD. He summed it up:

As a primary care internal medicine physician for about 40 years I filled out many death certificates. My patients were mostly over age 60. The specific cause of death is listed first. At the bottom of the certificate we list all underlying conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, COPD, infection, etc. These are the comorbidities, which in the case of COVID19 are now well known. So this "news" is that only a small number of people dying of COVID19 appear to have no known comorbidities. Or, more likely, a small number of doctors were not following instructions, since all those dying of COVID19 are very likely to be displaying outcomes the disease that ought to be noted for the record, such as respiratory failure or clotting disorders, and in fact may have been the proximal cause of death by COVID19. "

Please explain to us the difference between the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) and the Case Fatality Rate (CFR)

 

[SqueakyClean]

Please explain to us the difference between the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) and the Case Fatality Rate (CFR)

IFR is the infection rate of all individuals who are infected (including those that are not officially reported / asymptomatic) and CFR is the infection rate of all confirmed cases.
The former is something that can only be estimated based upon data gathered over a large time period while the latter can be more closely defined, but will be a higher percentage than IFR.

This isn't some kind of gotcha moment. There are some doctors that believe that the number of infections is significantly higher (up to 10x) than the actual case count. Without long term study with antibody testing, we aren't going to have an accurate IFR. So if you are trying to promote the "this is just a bad flu" narrative, you can believe that, but there is no proof really for or against (Ie. you can't prove a negative).

The fact that nearly 200,000 Americans have died from this in six months isn't going to change regardless of whether you play with IFR or CFR numbers. The absolute worst flu seasons on record in this country have resulted in ~60,000 deaths. Even if you want to play the "some of those deaths aren't really due to COVID" game, let's say something as ridiculously high as 10% of those are misrepresented. That still puts you in the ~175,000 range, which is still 3x worse than the worst flu season, and we are still only 6 months in.

 

[Riveting]

Maybe it would have helped if Trump didn't get rid of the team in the Wuhan lab it originated in as well as disband the pandemic response team. Got rid of both just because Obama put them together.

I don't think Joe has made that argument yet, has he? If not, why not? Perhaps because it is not accurate (not that that would stop him), as it has not been proven the virus originated in the Wuhan lab - but only that the lab covered up the origins and continues to do so by preventing a legitimate international investigation.

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

The point is that Corona is not THE cause of death for ALL of the 176k people that have "died of Corona". It may be listed as your cousin said, but it isn't always the thing that caused someone to die. Your cousin can also tell you that Doctors currently have a financial incentive to list covid19 as a cause of death.

To claim that shows your ignorance - that's like saying the kids who were killed in war didn't die from bullets because they had underlying conditions.

Just another weak argument for why the orange man can't PROTECT the American people - HIS NUMBER ONE RESPONSIBILITY - and he CAN'T DO IT !

 

[SqueakyClean]

Trump has done a better job protecting us than the majority of developed countries. Look at our death rate compared to theirs.

??? Our current death rate is about 590 per million population.
That's 11th worst in the world. The only real "developed" countries we beat are Spain, UK, and Brazil.

Many countries like Germany, Japan, Russia, Australia, Switzerland, and Denmark are literally in the 100-150 deaths per million population range (5 TIMES BETTER THAN US)

Go to this site and click on the "Deaths / 1M Pop" tab.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 125,320,024 Cases and 2,754,863 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[gleap1969]

???
Many countries like Germany, Japan, Russia, Australia, Switzerland, and Denmark are literally in the 100-150 deaths per million population range (5 TIMES BETTER THAN US)

Go to this site and click on the "Deaths / 1M Pop" tab.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 125,320,024 Cases and 2,754,863 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

That is only because their particular mutation/variant/strain of COVID is five times less deadly than ours. TIC

 

[SqueakyClean]

The US Covid death rate is 3.01%. Some of the countries you cherry picked are better as they are doing the best in the world when it comes to Covid death rate. Most developed countries are behind us, however.

Japan: 1.92%
Russia: 1.75%
Australia: 3%
Denmark: 3.32%
Germany: 3.62%
Finland: 3.98%
Switzerland: 4.42%
China: 5.25%
Spain: 5.35%
Canada: 6.73%
Sweden: 6.78%
France: 8.18%
Mexico: 10.68%
Belgium: 10.95%
UK: 11.62%
Italy: 12.57%

COVID-19 death rate by country 2022 | Statista

COVID-19 deaths per capita were 2 to 3 times higher in Italy, the UK and Belgium than in the United States.

www.statista.com

Fair enough. We are kinda both right. You are referring to death rate per case. I was referring to death rate per population. I will concede the point though that by your definition, the USA is better than most developed countries. It should be noted though that even in the link you posted, the USA is essentially 118th out of 166 in the world in mortality rate (but you are correct, we are still better than alot of developed countries).

It essentially boils down to that our health care system has been better prepared to deal with the pandemic than most developed countries, we are just lousy at preventing the number of cases compared to most developed countries. You can give Trump a little credit for the former, but he probably also deserves a little blame for the latter.

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

I said not all of the 176k is a result of Covid. There have been 176k deaths in the US where the patient has also had Covid. That does not mean that 100% of the time Covid was the cause of death. I think you are smart enough to understand that.

Trump has done a better job protecting us than the majority of developed countries. Look at our death rate compared to theirs.

You are damn right I am and you may or may not be smart enough to know that THOUSANDS of people died from COVID in their homes(because hospitals were full) and NEVER got counted. Add them and we are WELL over 200,000 already - but that would blow your rookie projection wouldn't it ? (250,000 deaths will be seen before Thanksgiving, not the end of Janauary like you say.

Do your research ! Once you do, you will see that the majority of the experts believe that COVID deaths are UNDER-REPORTED.

Bottom line: We are VERY close to 200,000 deaths already, which is a COMPLETE FAILURE ! That's more American deaths than we had in World War I, the Korean Ware or Vietnam. That's NOT protecting the American people ! Maybe Drumpf should go back to Germany and to the racist background he came from.

Developed countries? Are you talking about people like Canada, Australia and Germany or are you talking about people who have a similar non-science, ignorant view like Trumper - like Brazil, India, etc.. (You know . . nationalists)

 

[SqueakyClean]

We are currently at 179k deaths and you think we are going to add 71k more in 2.5 months?

Well, sadly, we are averaging about 1000 deaths a day. 2.5 months = 75 days => 75,000 deaths. So it's not a totally out-there projection.

 

[SqueakyClean]

I don't disagree, I'm just saying that his projection (especially considering he is basing his start point at 196k) is not some mucho-loco impossible thing.

It will likely depend upon whether there is going to be a labor day and / or school starting spike.

 

[TheGunner]

??? Our current death rate is about 590 per million population.
That's 11th worst in the world. The only real "developed" countries we beat are Spain, UK, and Brazil.

Many countries like Germany, Japan, Russia, Australia, Switzerland, and Denmark are literally in the 100-150 deaths per million population range (5 TIMES BETTER THAN US)

Go to this site and click on the "Deaths / 1M Pop" tab.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 125,320,024 Cases and 2,754,863 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Obama/Biden allowed 60MM people to be infected with H1N1. What would the death rate be if they were in charge of this pandemic with that number of cases.

I’ll wait for your answer

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Obama/Biden allowed 60MM people to be infected with H1N1. What would the death rate be if they were in charge of this pandemic with that number of cases.

I’ll wait for your answer

Even Ron Klain admitted they lucked out on that one.

 

[TheGunner]

Even Ron Klain admitted they lucked out on that one.

now I know why Obama says that everyone is lucky to get to where they are and accomplish the things they accomplish. He definitely was right in his case related to H1N1.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Obama/Biden allowed 60MM people to be infected with H1N1. What would the death rate be if they were in charge of this pandemic with that number of cases.

I’ll wait for your answer

They are completely different viruses with different mortality rates and transmission rates. Therefore the required responses are different.

To answer your question though, honestly, I think it would be in the 140k-150k range. Not great, but better.

If you look at the daily deaths and cases chart over the last six months, we had the initial spike, a gradual decrease until late June, another spike, and we have now kinda settled into a 35k cases / 950 deaths per day average over the last six weeks. I honestly think that Hillary would have performed fairly similarly to Trump in regards to March through early June. During that time period, Trump was following expert advice and his team was implementing alot of the steps necessary to ramp up PPE production and testing infrastructure. We ended up with about 125k deaths by the third week of June. I suspect it would have been the same with Hillary / Obama / Biden.

The difference is, I believe that the second spike would have been reduced / eliminated. Trump constantly downplaying the seriousness of the virus, fully supporting the "liberate so-and-so state", and not calling for nationwide mask wearing helped open the door for the virus's resurgance.

I said it a few weeks ago, the purpose of the shutdown in late March / April shutdown was to 1) Slow down the virus to not overwhelm the hospitals, 2) Give precious time to doctors to develop treatment regimens and begin vaccination research, 3) Set up required production of masks, ventilators, PPE, testing, and contact tracing abilities, and 4) Educate people on proper hygiene / mask wearing / social distancing procedures so that the virus wouldn't take root again. I think we as a nation did an excellent job on items 1 & 2, kinda "meh" on item 3, and failed miserably on item 4.

Would Hillary (Obama / Biden / Generic Democrat) have done better on items 3 & 4? I'd like to think so, but I can't prove a hypothetical.

 

[TheGunner]

They are completely different viruses with different mortality rates and transmission rates. Therefore the required responses are different.

To answer your question though, honestly, I think it would be in the 140k-150k range. Not great, but better.

If you look at the daily deaths and cases chart over the last six months, we had the initial spike, a gradual decrease until late June, another spike, and we have now kinda settled into a 35k cases / 950 deaths per day average over the last six weeks. I honestly think that Hillary would have performed fairly similarly to Trump in regards to March through early June. During that time period, Trump was following expert advice and his team was implementing alot of the steps necessary to ramp up PPE production and testing infrastructure. We ended up with about 125k deaths by the third week of June. I suspect it would have been the same with Hillary / Obama / Biden.

The difference is, I believe that the second spike would have been reduced / eliminated. Trump constantly downplaying the seriousness of the virus, fully supporting the "liberate so-and-so state", and not calling for nationwide mask wearing helped open the door for the virus's resurgance.

I said it a few weeks ago, the purpose of the shutdown in late March / April shutdown was to 1) Slow down the virus to not overwhelm the hospitals, 2) Give precious time to doctors to develop treatment regimens and begin vaccination research, 3) Set up required production of masks, ventilators, PPE, testing, and contact tracing abilities, and 4) Educate people on proper hygiene / mask wearing / social distancing procedures so that the virus wouldn't take root again. I think we as a nation did an excellent job on items 1 & 2, kinda "meh" on item 3, and failed miserably on item 4.

Would Hillary (Obama / Biden / Generic Democrat) have done better on items 3 & 4? I'd like to think so, but I can't prove a hypothetical.

Because your response is reasonable, I will also respond reasonably.

I think you are right about the second wave and my critique of Trump was that he should have done more to commandeer mask and PPE. I also think he needed to recommend to everyone be smart and wear a mask in public outside when 6 feet cannot be maintained. So I do fault him for some of the second wave, but I also believe the second wave was going to hit big cities like Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta and LA, it was just going to happen.

I disagree that any democrat would have react as quickly as Trump did in stopping flights from China. Given this, I believe the first wave was much lower under Trump than it would have been under anyone else. I think a Democrat case study is NY under De Blasio and Cuomo. Both undersold the impact of the virus initially (and I believe their actions were like the standard liberal response) but once that occurred they would have lockdown the US like Cuomo did NY. Where we disagree is the the height of that first wave because I believe SF, SEA, LA and many other cities would have been impacted quicker and been more deadlier.

In the end, I think Trump will see more cases than the Democrats would have BUT the results under Democrats would have been deadlier due to a higher (and thus deadlier) first wave.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Because your response is reasonable, I will also respond reasonably.

I think you are right about the second wave and my critique of Trump was that he should have done more to commandeer mask and PPE. I also think he needed to recommend to everyone be smart and wear a mask in public outside when 6 feet cannot be maintained. So I do fault him for some of the second wave, but I also believe the second wave was going to hit big cities like Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta and LA, it was just going to happen.

I disagree that any democrat would have react as quickly as Trump did in stopping flights from China. Given this, I believe the first wave was much lower under Trump than it would have been under anyone else. I think a Democrat case study is NY under De Blasio and Cuomo. Both undersold the impact of the virus initially (and I believe their actions were like the standard liberal response) but once that occurred they would have lockdown the US like Cuomo did NY. Where we disagree is the the height of that first wave because I believe SF, SEA, LA and many other cities would have been impacted quicker and been more deadlier.

In the end, I think Trump will see more cases than the Democrats would have BUT the results under Democrats would have been deadlier due to a higher (and thus deadlier) first wave.

Certainly plausible. I won't deny that there are so many variables in this that Hillary (et all) could have even been twice as bad. For all we know, Hillary would have shut down everything for three months and we ended up with civil war 2 with 5 million dead.

My one nitpick of your scenario is San Francisco. The mayor there (regardless of how you feel about the other issues with that city) has done a better-than-expected job in concerns to Covid. The city was shut down more than average big cities. As a result , they only have 19,000 of the reported 750,000+ cases in the state and only ~210 deaths (and that is counting the greater south san francisco area/ redwood city / San Mateo County, the city itself is only 10,000 cases / 80 deaths). For reference, my area (Columbus, OH), under DeWine (who most have praised for the state's covid response) has 24,000 cases / 577 deaths.

LA and the surrounding areas (including San Diego) comprise of something like 50% of the cases in CA.

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

Lol so now you are trying to drive up the number by saying people died in their homes and they didn't get counted.

We are currently at 179k deaths and you think we are going to add 71k more in 2.5 months?

650k Americans die every year from Heart Disease. 600k die every year from Cancer. Both are more deaths than every war you just mentioned. Maybe you should shift your hysteria to those two causes of death.

Oh look Pete ! - We just went past 200,000 deaths and it's still the middle of September ! (ie All of the top experts follow John Hopkins.)

https://corona.help/

That makes your 250,000 number at the end of January look like a novice prediction, . . just as I predicted.

I KNEW you couldn't do it Pete - all mouth

 

[LedZep17]

Oh look Pete ! - We just went past 200,000 deaths and it's still the middle of September ! (ie All of the top experts follow John Hopkins.)

https://corona.help/

That makes your 250,000 number at the end of January look like a novice prediction, . . just as I predicted.

I KNEW you couldn't do it Pete - all mouth

Those darn Blue states!

If only they were just not part of the US, then Trump wouldn't have to count their coronavirus deaths and they all could just "miraculously disappear". Nevermind that "red" states have Covid-19 death tallies that have escalated the most recently.

Trump says US death toll would be very low if "you take the blue states out". Wow... what a "POTUS"... but go ahead and take out the "TU" and you'd be more accurate. Perhaps someone should remind him the USA would have the 2nd most deaths of all countries when "taking out the blue states."

Another non-sequitur from Trump, all while also seriously pitting the states against one another using coronavirus deaths, further dividing the country even more. I'm sure it will all play out well for him in November.

Trump blames "blue states" for high coronavirus cases in U.S.

There is little relation in the spread of the virus and the political parties of state leaders.

www.axios.com

 

[SKYDOG]

Oh look Pete ! - We just went past 200,000 deaths and it's still the middle of September ! (ie All of the top experts follow John Hopkins.)

https://corona.help/

That makes your 250,000 number at the end of January look like a novice prediction, . . just as I predicted.

I KNEW you couldn't do it Pete - all mouth

Your glee over others suffering and dying just trying to prove a point that you claim to be right is more than disgusting. Maybe consider being a better person in the days ahead.