Yep, we’ll see if he takes an OV here (maybe Illini game weekend on 10/26). X also offered.
Dre Davis recruitment
- Thread starter TX4GB
- Start date
Yep, we’ll see if he takes an OV here (maybe Illini game weekend on 10/26). X also offered.
Still a better option guarding on the perimeter than Haarms or Williams.
Can you spell Caleb?
and I have no issue with which team type plays the most...I just hope Purdue is versatile and can play both ways. Historically, bigger 4's and 5's win when it gets deeper in the tourney. you do NOT have to have 4 players able to shoot the 3 ball..you just don't. It may be the way your talent lines up to play that way, but it sure doesn't draw a lot of fouls on the other team and punish them as a powerful inside game does.
Second, it is VERY common to attack zones with two post players...even if you must move 6'8" Vince towards the high post as years ago. You can do it with 4 perimeter players, but stretch 4 basketball is still in its infancy in you've been around for a while and so I recognize advantages of both ways and there is no such thing that one is better as it always comes down to what talent you have on your team versus who you are playing.
Now if you have a team that plays stretch 4 and your perimeter players are good shooters, but limited in being able to take the ball to the rim in addition and your limited in your 5 man inside at least for the game in question, nobody has to dedicate more than one inside and can contest the 3 ball forcing you to put it on the floor. If you have two bigs capable of going out to 15 then you can interchange them against what the other team is doing and who is guarding them. Again, there must be a paradigm shift in in believing that depending on team...either style can be effective...sorta like a football team that can only pass the ball or only run the ball...both sports need finesse and power to be as successful as possible
You may be right, but given what we KNOW of how they have played in the past, I'm not expecting Eastern, Haarms, or Williams to be a CONSISTENT threat from beyond the arc. That's fine, because we have other shooters on the team.
You are correct, you don't need 4 players that can shoot the 3 ball, but you do need at least 3. Unless you are saying you would only play Haarms and Williams if Eastern is off the floor, then there would only be 2 shooters on the floor.
Basketball has changed. Big lineups are not common unless you are the blue bloods who have blue chip players capable of being on the perimeter as well as in the post.
Again, we have seen this play out before. Biggie was more suited for playing the 4 than Williams or Haarms are. Haas was a better inside presence than Haarms or Williams are.... yet.... Painter made the switch to have Biggie at the 5, because it makes for a more balanced team.
now, you are trying to compare playing styles as though they are the same with different players? why would you do that? I want a versatile team as I've stated. I want a team that can play power AND finesse. Which way they play most of the time doesn't matter as long as the STYLE is best for Purdue when needed...and Matt calls that. For every abstract reason why 4 out is better than 3 out, I can flip that. What I would like is to be able to play both ways, but if I could have the best talent possible to play either style it would be 3 out and since Purdue cant just play one way, I hope they are able to play both.
The rule change has helped the little guy more than the big, but slowly it seems as though the refs are not calling it quite as tight on the perimeter as a couple of years ago. The 3pt line had moved back a bit and not sure how much that may come into play in getting outside the arc a split second sooner on D to pick up the charge. Again, I have no idea which style of play will end up being best for Purdue this year, but hope Purdue is effective with both because there will be games it will be needed
The problem with that statement is how do you know they were not given many opportunities to be a threat from the 3 when the offense wasn’t designed for them to take many of them. We’ll find out soon enough tho. I’ll say again this team is not last years team or the year b4 totally different style of offense than what was shown last season.
Why would I not compare Williams/Haarms ability to play the 4/5 to Biggie/Haas? That's a logical comparison. The difference is that Biggie was a threat from the perimeter. I don't believe you will see Williams/Haarms together more than 5-7 minutes per game. That was my original point.
If I could have the best talent possible to play either way, I'm taking 4 out no question. This is not the 90s or 00s.
There will be games where the bigger lineup is used more often against teams like IU who will play two bigs frequently. However, it will be used sparingly IMO. I would imagine we see it the same amount we did last year (basically just against Minnesota).
Is the offense this year designed for those 3 to take many 3s? I would highly doubt it.
I totally understand your logic and I say soon enough we all gone see what this team identity will be
now you are limiting yourself again. Haas couldn't go out on the floor, Matt can. That versatility helps Tre as well. If they play 5-7 minutes together or 25 minutes together, I'm fine either way assuming Matt knows best on what is needed. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s...historically teams have played with two bigs or more. How much space do you need for proper spacing?
If the Blue bloods play with two bigs as you stated previously and they can recruit pretty much who they want...doesn't it follow that they seem to think that two bigs work in 2019? I want versatility and you appear to have an idea that one offensive style is best. Ill let Matt and the staff decide which is best for this group of players and go with it, but hope the team is solid enough to adapt as needed.
Davis has set 3 Official Visits....
Louisville OV - 10/18
Xavier OV - 10/25
Purdue OV - 11/1
Louisville OV - 10/18
Xavier OV - 10/25
Purdue OV - 11/1
Saving the best for last.
That’s when the Huskers come to town. Have to beat them and then rub salt in the wound once he commits here.
The majority of teams USED to play with two bigs. Now teams play more 4 out than 3 out. FYI, a "Big" can be a stretch 4 as well as go inside (ie. Frank Kaminsky).
The blue bloods get bigs that can play both inside and outside. Painter will play the right guys at the right time, but I would be surprised if Haarms/Williams are in a lineup that is used often. Games are won and lost at the 3pt line in today's basketball.
Purdue was in on him early with his 14U team that his dad coached and still coaches . He simply was offered early by Nebraska and he took it . As far as his AAU team Nike Indy Heat and Painter that connection goes back over a decade . Their coach Jason Delaney who is the hs coach at Cathedral hs in Indy has Painter\Brantley connections as does Coach Davis and the Indiana Elite program (Adidas) who my grandson plays for 12u . I recommend coach Davis's skills academy www.gametimesc.com . Speaking of AAU keep an eye on PJ Thompson while he cannot recruit he has deep roots in Indianapolis AAU and is well liked and respected . As for Edey I doubt the two are related because you can over sign by one . So IMO there is no reason for it to be either or . Your assertion that connections matter is spot on IMO .
But we "knew" based on the previous year that Nojel would be a liability at the FT line. Many here "knew" that if Grady was a starter, Purdue would have a crappy season. In both cases, the opposite was true.
Based on last year, we don't really KNOW these things. The make-up of the team is different, the coaching staff has changed, and the players have worked hard on their weaknesses and strengths over the summer. We see players break out every year. We could see 3 or 4 players consistently do positive things that we never saw them do.
Okay, I will believe that those 3 are capable of being consistent 3pt shooters when I see it. We have yet to see it.
We have a good team regardless if those 3 can shoot the 3 or not. I'm just of the belief we won't see the 3 of them on the court very often.
I guess you gone find out since you no so much.
Understood. I just don't see "3 shooting 3's" being an absolute requirement for this team reaching its potential. If Painter does play Tre at the 4 and Wheeler at the 3 for significant minutes, it will be because, first and foremost, that lineup will make it very difficult for the opponent to score and rebound. Team defense is Painters priority. But none of these guys are defense-only players. We know that there would be some excellent passing and offensive skills as well.
I don't think those 3 shooting 3s is a requirement for this team to reach it's potential either. I see Haarms and Tre each averaging about 23 min/gm each. The 6 minutes that they are on the floor together, I envision there being 3 guards/wings that are capable of making shots out there with them. I believe the 40 minutes at the 4 spot will be mostly Wheeler, Gillis, and EB.
I love doubters and naysayers make for a good conversation to talk about when it happens. Especially when you don’t no them. Don’t judge a book off its cover. Last season is gone new season same goals different results
yes Matt will play the way he and his staff think is best. Again, a big if really a big, can be a stretch four and play inside out or play inside out, but not to the 3pt line. It appears you believe that 4 must be a threat behind the arc and I don't. What does that 4 give you...3 extra points if he hits 3 a game?
Lots of ways you can compensate for those points at that ONE spot. If you want to be good, you better be able to play power and finesse...both... same in football. Also, as I've said, Haarms and Tre whether 5 minutes or 25 minutes a game...Purdue can win with either style. I don't care which...I just hope they can play as needed depending on the refs, the opponent, and whether they are on from the perimeter or not.
Generally we see 3 out against most zones and 3 out against many man D's. Since man and zone share a lot of things and adjust in principle to the team it is playing with the lines of demarcation between match-up zone and switching blurring even more those lines other than general court area, why would we reason that 3 out couldn't be effective today if needed?
Like I said, I just want Purdue to win and want the most versatile offensive attack possible and I want the most versatile defense or man D. You want a threat at all 3 areas on O and be able to defend all 3 areas on D. For every advantage, there is a disadvantage in offense..it is always about your personnel and how a particular game is going...at least it is in my mind.
Thank you well said well said. Often times players are judged on the past like that is who they are and still will be. Cline Grady proved that Tillman from Michigan st proved that given opportunities to play more you can show more. I’ve seen others from other teams prove to be vastly different players than what was shown bcuz sometimes the offensive style didn’t fit there style more opportunities to play more minutes just many different reason why what you see is not who they are bcuz some played ROLES to win games Facts. This team is not last years team the offensive coach is not the same either these guys roles and minutes will be different and their mindset is different and many have worked very hard on improving on what they had already to there game and got better at what they needed to get better at their game. Sir I’m so glad somebody understands that every year teams change never stay the same and this team makeup will be very different than last year. I no for sure what my son can do and what a little confidence can for a player.
Having a 4 that can hit the 3 not only provides more points, but it opens up driving lanes for your other players since defenders can't sag off as much. Now if you have a 1, 4, and 5 that aren't 3pt threats, then 3 defenders can pack the paint. If I'm creating a team, I would always want as many 3pt shooters on the floor as possible. Painter seems to agree as he generally has a 4 that can shoot the 3. Again the key to winning in today's game is the 3pt line. You don't need to believe me, but would you believe Gregg Popovich?
"These days there’s such an emphasis on the three because it’s proven to be analytically correct,” Popovich offered with what appeared to be a sneer. “Now you look at a stat sheet after a game and the first thing you look at is the threes. If you made threes and the other team didn’t, you win. You don’t even look at the rebounds or the turnovers or how much transition D was involved. You don’t even care. That’s how much an impact the three-point shot has and it’s evidenced by how everybody plays."
https://www.poundingtherock.com/2018/11/29/18118915/gregg-popovich-still-hates-three-pointers
I'm concerned how the new 3 point line will affect the decision of coaches to continue their perimeter game philosophy. Will they continue to shoot the three at a lower efficiency rate ? or will they move toward a more efficient inside game? We all know the object is to score. Sometimes your best way of doing that is to feed the big man in the middle.
I'm also not sure Purdue really needs 3-4 players on the floor to shoot the three. I believe what you really need is 1-2 players who can get open and shoot the three consistently.
rather than copying other teams, the way to win is through mismatches, and dictating style and tempo. With the overall objective as winning, a team that scores less than 80 points can be successful if they can control the tempo of the game.
When the game gets close down the stretch, clutch free throws and ball handling are what seals a victory.
I'm also not sure Purdue really needs 3-4 players on the floor to shoot the three. I believe what you really need is 1-2 players who can get open and shoot the three consistently.
rather than copying other teams, the way to win is through mismatches, and dictating style and tempo. With the overall objective as winning, a team that scores less than 80 points can be successful if they can control the tempo of the game.
When the game gets close down the stretch, clutch free throws and ball handling are what seals a victory.
When it comes to Indianapolis area AAU the Thompsons are Royalty . They have earned it . It would take me awhile to explain it in depth . But three generations have donated their time, expertise , money , facilities and much more . I mentioned him in reference to connections .
I don't think you get at all what I'm saying and I don't really care what Gregg has to say because it is NOT on subject. You put the best team you can out there and play them most the time they way they play the best, but you better be able to play with power AND/or finesse when needed. Now then, I laid out some D concepts and how the lines are blurred between man and Zone. i stated that most zones are attacked with 3 out which should make some think that ya know...I'm not so sure 3 out can't work all the time once you understand the defenses. I pointed out that if your 4 hits three 3's you can make that up and a LOT more in MANY different ways. I asked you how much distance do players need to keep to have good spacing. Nobody ever said you don't need shooters behind the arc...nobody. You are debating with yourself on that. I merely stated that you may need to play with two bigs a lot or little and that is for Matt to decide.
I tried to point out that Matt Haarms allows things Haas didn't. I'm not dealing in abstract things, but with real possibilities since neither one of us know what the players can and cannot do at this time. how many games do you think Matt coaches that the game plays out exactly like they thought before they entered the court? Versatility is the name of the game...being able to adjust if AND when it is needed. It is all about the players you have as individual strengths and how they can blend. Some may play a bit less to their best areas so that others can flourish. Nobody is saying that you don't need "some" players to be a threat behind the arc, but how many and for how long.is always a "variable" not a constant.
Anyone heard from Nag...I hope he is doing well and is beating his cancer...
I think neither Kyle nor TJ are completely wrong here. Yes, the 3-point line is such an important part of the game these days. So much more than when Larry Bird was making them in his sleep. You absolutely want 3-point shooters - multiple - on the court. However, you still have to play to YOUR team's strengths. What Matt Painter has been able to do in the last 4-5 years is run this team based on its strengths, be it running through Biggie/Haas, or letting the shooters green-light it all over the court. But even with the offense flowing through the bigs, the 3s are still needed, and without them in 2016-17 we would have suffered.
So a LOT of talk about three point shooting. I know it’s important but give me a team that shoots 2’s at a very high percentage and makes their free throws and defends the line well on D and you are going to win a lot of games. This team will make plenty of threes. At the end of the game it does not matter who made them. I want a team that can score at every level and of course D up.
My question is do you really want four 3 point shooters on the floor if two of them are not very efficient? Or would you rather have two bigs in the paint and only have 2-3 players who are much more efficient taking threes? I don’t want a 4 taking 3’s if he can’t consistently make them. Yes Biggie took 3 point shots, but I often felt we would have been better off if he allowed others to take those shots and have him ready to grab the rebound.
If you have a guy like Cline and Carsen on your team, do you really need a pf to be on the perimeter trying to shoot a 3?
I say this knowing Carsen and Cline are gone, but several of our newcomers have a rep of being great outside shooters. My thoughts are let those who can shoot, shoot and let the others play to their strengths.
I say this knowing Carsen and Cline are gone, but several of our newcomers have a rep of being great outside shooters. My thoughts are let those who can shoot, shoot and let the others play to their strengths.
Every play has strengths and weaknesses and as a coach many will do just that play to the teams strengths however there are players on this ream can do more than what was shown those are facts those players now will have their turn to show more of their game to help win games bcuz the offense will be structured around their skill sets. This team is vastly different than the last 2 years teams mainly bcuz the athleticism speed and size of this team. Nov1 st all of what I saw from practice will be on full display and I cannot wait to watch this really talented that could be scary scary good this season.
We'd have an NBA - SIZED lineup, but we wouldn't have an NBA shooting lineup, NBA ballhandling lineup , or NBA maneuverability lineup.....
I forgot about Him that's still only 3 In the 38 years I've been watching purdue.
Similar threads
Purdue recruiting Priority WR sets Spring visit
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
Biden FINALLY does something about immigration- Latest: BuilderBob6
-