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Dartmouth Study: Democrats are by Far the Least Tolerant...

So, let's look at what's bullshit.

Beth brings up FGM as the reason why she'll no longer support Muslims. I point out that the stupid map that was posted here about FGM actually highlighted a number of Christian majority countries where FGM is prevalent, and zero correlation (let alone causation) between Islam and FGM. Countries like Iraq and Yemen had very little FGM relative to their Muslim populations (Iraq was like 8% vs more than 90% Muslim).

So yes, little basis in fact on her argument. And your argument isn't about those countries in the Middle East. Yours is about overthrowing the American government and way of life as a rule of *Islam*. As I said, yep, there are millions of Muslim (out of the Billion (with a B)) in the world who belong to organizations with political, cultural, and religious ideologies that DO want to see countries like America gone and religious freedom eradicated and to make the world Muslim. But that does NOT - repeat NOT - mean that ISLAM is based on trying to overthrow America.

So again, you guys all talk in broad terms about Islam, then get butthurt when I point out that not all or even not a majority of Muslims feel certain ways about various topics. So yes, your opinions, which are not in the least bit rooted in actual facts, but merely perception, are bullshit... in my opinion. Sorry, bro. Them's the breaks.

You continuously defend Islam based on the view that most Muslims are peace loving people who assimilate well into cultures with different religions. Actually, I agree with you completely on your statement. However, I disagree with using that fact as a defense for a religion that also has a very large number of people who believe in a radical interpretation of their scripture and use it as a mantra for killing people that don't line up with their views. When I and others call out these "millions of people" as you say who want to destroy countries like ours you return to your view that we are attacking Islam in total. Well that is your only defense because anyone who has studied the history of Islam objectively will see that it is the Koran that supports their radical ideology. Your next argument is to point out that there are atrocities committed by people who call themselves Christians and rationalize Muslim atrocities that outnumber the rest by a huge number. That too is easily defeated by the facts. So there ya go bro. Facts are facts and dems da breaks.
 
some of those details remind me of growing up in my rural, conservative church(es)

women required to:
-wear long dresses
-not expose shoulders or back
-some wear head coverings
-not wear makeup
-not have pierced ears
-take no leadership positions within the church
-be secondary to husbands (e.g. when introduced, first to speak, etc)

also common:
-no dancing
-no movie theatres
-no Sunday working/shopping/purchases
-division of male/female activities, studies
-married women not pursuing careers and stay at home after first child
LOL are you amish? There's more makeup and perfume at your average church sermon than at most Macy's.
 
LOL are you amish? There's more makeup and perfume at your average church sermon than at most Macy's.

ha no, thankfully could drive cars.
but back then even non amish churches were quite conservative with women's appearance, dress, etc.

now some of those things have faded and become more relaxed... my nose would definitely not miss the excessive perfume worn by a few
 
You continuously defend Islam based on the view that most Muslims are peace loving people who assimilate well into cultures with different religions. Actually, I agree with you completely on your statement. However, I disagree with using that fact as a defense for a religion that also has a very large number of people who believe in a radical interpretation of their scripture and use it as a mantra for killing people that don't line up with their views. When I and others call out these "millions of people" as you say who want to destroy countries like ours you return to your view that we are attacking Islam in total. Well that is your only defense because anyone who has studied the history of Islam objectively will see that it is the Koran that supports their radical ideology. Your next argument is to point out that there are atrocities committed by people who call themselves Christians and rationalize Muslim atrocities that outnumber the rest by a huge number. That too is easily defeated by the facts. So there ya go bro. Facts are facts and dems da breaks.
There are two people on this message board who've spent significant time living in predominantly Muslim countries, and both of them consistently tell you that your "facts" are bullshit. Maybe that oughta tell you something "bro".
 
Yes, you are correct, awesome observation. So what? The New Testament trumps the Old Testament in directing how we are to treat others.
And yet, the book that talks about all kinds of things we find abhorrent today is still read every Sunday. You pull BS from the Koran indiscriminately, and a Muslim could do the same from the Bible. Do you know which passages they read regularly? I seriously doubt it.
 
There are two people on this message board who've spent significant time living in predominantly Muslim countries, and both of them consistently tell you that your "facts" are bullshit. Maybe that oughta tell you something "bro".
sorry. you don't get to rewrite the history books with your anecdotal evidence.
 
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sorry. you don't get to rewrite the history books with your anecdotal evidence.
OK. I'm fine with you, Bruce and Beth disagreeing with me. We wouldn't likely associate long in life anyway. I'll share a beer and conversation with anyone, however. I'm good with disagreement and would be happy to share my "anecdotes" with all of you over a cold one.

As would many Muslims I have personally met.
 
And yet, the book that talks about all kinds of things we find abhorrent today is still read every Sunday. You pull BS from the Koran indiscriminately, and a Muslim could do the same from the Bible. Do you know which passages they read regularly? I seriously doubt it.
Not true. Lets stick to the facts. Christianaity
And yet, the book that talks about all kinds of things we find abhorrent today is still read every Sunday. You pull BS from the Koran indiscriminately, and a Muslim could do the same from the Bible. Do you know which passages they read regularly? I seriously doubt it.

I'm not pulling stuff from the Koran, GR. I am listening to people who claim to be Muslims quote their book. You refuse to see the facts that there are several groups around the world who call themselves Muslims who have created havoc through tens of thousands of terrorists who follow their religion. You may have lived in those countries, etc and I am sure that there are millions and millions of Muslims who are peace loving caring people. However, that does not refute the facts that there are hundreds of thousands of radicals killing innocent people in the name of their religion. Those are the facts GR. Those are the facts.
 
Not true. Lets stick to the facts. Christianaity


I'm not pulling stuff from the Koran, GR. I am listening to people who claim to be Muslims quote their book. You refuse to see the facts that there are several groups around the world who call themselves Muslims who have created havoc through tens of thousands of terrorists who follow their religion. You may have lived in those countries, etc and I am sure that there are millions and millions of Muslims who are peace loving caring people. However, that does not refute the facts that there are hundreds of thousands of radicals killing innocent people in the name of their religion. Those are the facts GR. Those are the facts.
When do I deny the fact that there are Muslim terrorists in the world? Never. What a stupid comment that is.

My problem is when you and many others paint more than one billion people with that same brush, panning the entire religion and practically all who practice it, wanting to ban them from the country or "humanely slaughter" them (theboris... I know you don't believe that, but you and many others are well down the path to viewing those people's lives as less valuable than yours.)
 
When do I deny the fact that there are Muslim terrorists in the world? Never. What a stupid comment that is.

My problem is when you and many others paint more than one billion people with that same brush, panning the entire religion and practically all who practice it, wanting to ban them from the country or "humanely slaughter" them (theboris... I know you don't believe that, but you and many others are well down the path to viewing those people's lives as less valuable than yours.)

I have never painted the whole Muslim people as terrorists. Read my posts with an open mind, will you?

"you and many others paint more than one billion people with that same brush, panning the entire religion and practically all who practice it, wanting to ban them from the country or "humanely slaughter" them" ????

What a massive leap from what I have said This is exactly why it is almost impossible to have discussions on this without creating a larger chasm than before. This is a horribly ludricrous comment. President Trump wanted to temporarily stop people coming in from 7 countries that have had significant extremist activities. There are more than 50 countries in the world the are majority Islamic. Muslim Ban? Not!
 
OK. I'm fine with you, Bruce and Beth disagreeing with me. We wouldn't likely associate long in life anyway. I'll share a beer and conversation with anyone, however. I'm good with disagreement and would be happy to share my "anecdotes" with all of you over a cold one.

As would many Muslims I have personally met.
I'm glad you had good interactions. I didn't. And when I had next door neighbors that were "diplomats" who were muslims, they didn't do anything to improve that image. Beyond my personal interactions, I have major philosophical problems with Islam (and most religions for that matter). You just seem to think your experiences out weigh every other fact or anyone else's experience. "I had good experiences so anything you say is bullshit". woof. Not exactly convincing.
 
I'm glad you had good interactions. I didn't. And when I had next door neighbors that were "diplomats" who were muslims, they didn't do anything to improve that image. Beyond my personal interactions, I have major philosophical problems with Islam (and most religions for that matter). You just seem to think your experiences out weigh every other fact or anyone else's experience. "I had good experiences so anything you say is bullshit". woof. Not exactly convincing.
Not everything you guys say is bullshit, obviously. But frankly, a lot of it truly is because it's rooted in ignorance. Woof.

But yeah, your one experience with neighbors should be applied to all Muslims, and not just "that guy was an asshole".

No problem with philosophical differences. You guys just seem to not want to believe that the vast majority of Muslims just want to raise their families as happily and safely as they can, just like you and me.
 
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I have never painted the whole Muslim people as terrorists. Read my posts with an open mind, will you?

"you and many others paint more than one billion people with that same brush, panning the entire religion and practically all who practice it, wanting to ban them from the country or "humanely slaughter" them" ????

What a massive leap from what I have said This is exactly why it is almost impossible to have discussions on this without creating a larger chasm than before. This is a horribly ludricrous comment. President Trump wanted to temporarily stop people coming in from 7 countries that have had significant extremist activities. There are more than 50 countries in the world the are majority Islamic. Muslim Ban? Not!
I pretty obviously didn't attribute the humane slaughter thing to you.

I had no problem with the travel restriction. Defended it on this message board, in fact. You've probably forgotten that, though.
 
I have never painted the whole Muslim people as terrorists. Read my posts with an open mind, will you?

"you and many others paint more than one billion people with that same brush, panning the entire religion and practically all who practice it, wanting to ban them from the country or "humanely slaughter" them" ????

What a massive leap from what I have said This is exactly why it is almost impossible to have discussions on this without creating a larger chasm than before. This is a horribly ludricrous comment. President Trump wanted to temporarily stop people coming in from 7 countries that have had significant extremist activities. There are more than 50 countries in the world the are majority Islamic. Muslim Ban? Not!

today you are content with the level of safety from only a partial ban rather than the halt to islamic immigration mentioned last summer?

many others felt a complete shutdown/ban/halt/etc would provide the utmost safety for american citizens.

this was always the discussion before and helped trump achieve victory (or until several days ago when someone altered the presidents original website)

"December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. "

https://web.archive.org/web/2017050...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/temporary-ban-on-immigration.96618/
 
You guys just seem to not want to believe that the vast majority of Muslims just want to raise their families as happily and safely as they can, just like you and me.
lol how do you figure? What I believe is that "happily and safely" under Islam doesn't compare to the "happily and safely" we've created in America under western philosophy, enlightenment principals, and a democratic republic.
 
lol how do you figure? What I believe is that "happily and safely" under Islam doesn't compare to the "happily and safely" we've created in America under western philosophy, enlightenment principals, and a democratic republic.
Again, this is where life experience comes in. I figure that because of the numerous conversations with Pakistanis, Bahrainis, Pashtun, Iraqis, and Jordanians that I've had over the years. It's about their family - even the women and their daughters.
 
Again, this is where life experience comes in. I figure that because of the numerous conversations with Pakistanis, Bahrainis, Pashtun, Iraqis, and Jordanians that I've had over the years. It's about their family - even the women and their daughters.
Sorry I meant how do you figure that "I don't want to believe". I do believe that, but we are doing it better here, in no small part because their religion prevents them from achieving some of the things we've accomplished and work towards as a society.
 
OK. I'm fine with you, Bruce and Beth disagreeing with me. We wouldn't likely associate long in life anyway. I'll share a beer and conversation with anyone, however. I'm good with disagreement and would be happy to share my "anecdotes" with all of you over a cold one.

As would many Muslims I have personally met.
Many Muslims you have met personally would share a cold one? You man they drink cold Orange Juice right?
 
Sorry I meant how do you figure that "I don't want to believe". I do believe that, but we are doing it better here, in no small part because their religion prevents them from achieving some of the things we've accomplished and work towards as a society.
Maybe you personally don't. I think many conservative Americans believe that Islam, as a religion, and thus Muslims, all want America to die and care immensely about what Americans do on a minute by minute basis. They pretty clearly do not.
 
ISIS is completing what Muhammad started.

To deny that is absurd.

Not all religions are the same. They are all bullshit, but some are worse than others.

It is okay to say that. We have to be adults here. Human life is at stake.
 
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Maybe you personally don't. I think many conservative Americans believe that Islam, as a religion, and thus Muslims, all want America to die and care immensely about what Americans do on a minute by minute basis. They pretty clearly do not.

Ignorant comment. Why do Americans have an opinion at all? Why? Because for 45 yrs in my case, 90% of my exposure to Islam is when some radicals who call themselves Muslims shoot a bunch of Jewish athletes at the Olympics, commit thousands of murders over the years, have huge rallies screaming death to Israel and the US, and on and on. Then we have in our country a group like CAIR and others who transform anyone who speaks out as an Islamaphobe.

I countinually search for examples where the good guy Muslims come out and actually support the US and refute their radicals. Of course there are some and the numbers appear to be growing. That is the best thing that could happen....for a more organized effort to show us the good side of their religion. God knows we need to see it.
 
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I know plenty who have pizza with meat or something like that every Friday during Lent, and many who just don't think about it at all.
I'm not Catholic but just about all of my friends are. I don't know of a single practicing catholic who eats meat on Fridays during lent nor do I know any who "just don't think about it." They ALL take it very seriously.
 
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Ignorant comment. Why do Americans have an opinion at all? Why? Because for 45 yrs in my case, 90% of my exposure to Islam is when some radicals who call themselves Muslims shoot a bunch of Jewish athletes at the Olympics, commit thousands of murders over the years, have huge rallies screaming death to Israel and the US, and on and on. Then we have in our country a group like CAIR and others who transform anyone who speaks out as an Islamaphobe.

I countinually search for examples where the good guy Muslims come out and actually support the US and refute their radicals. Of course there are some and the numbers appear to be growing. That is the best thing that could happen....for a more organized effort to show us the good side of their religion. God knows we need to see it.



If a Muslim wants to live in this country for what it provides, those who do should be willing to take out their own trash yet they don't because of fear. How many have you ever heard about where they speak out, or even better tell the authorities where the radical cells are.
 
I'm not Catholic but just about all of my friends are. I don't know of a single practicing catholic who eats meat on Fridays during lent nor do I know any who "just don't think about it." They ALL take it very seriously.
Yeah, I know plenty of Catholics who don't go to church every Sunday, let alone remember every Friday in Lent.
 
Ignorant comment. Why do Americans have an opinion at all? Why? Because for 45 yrs in my case, 90% of my exposure to Islam is when some radicals who call themselves Muslims shoot a bunch of Jewish athletes at the Olympics, commit thousands of murders over the years, have huge rallies screaming death to Israel and the US, and on and on. Then we have in our country a group like CAIR and others who transform anyone who speaks out as an Islamaphobe.

I countinually search for examples where the good guy Muslims come out and actually support the US and refute their radicals. Of course there are some and the numbers appear to be growing. That is the best thing that could happen....for a more organized effort to show us the good side of their religion. God knows we need to see it.
Look harder. Ignorant applies to only one of us as pertains to people of the Muslim faith. If you judge all people by the worst of their faith, creed, or culture, I can see you aren't worth my time.
 
Look harder. Ignorant applies to only one of us as pertains to people of the Muslim faith. If you judge all people by the worst of their faith, creed, or culture, I can see you aren't worth my time.

I agree with you - waste of time because your response to every statement is to claim that all Muslims are being judged because of the actions of a few.
 
I agree with you - waste of time because your response to every statement is to claim that all Muslims are being judged because of the actions of a few.

so why last summer did voters and posters here want a complete Islamic ban on immigration?
seems inconsistent
 
so why last summer did voters and posters here want a complete Islamic ban on immigration?
seems inconsistent
because there's no way to tell the good majority from the jihad minority. Why don't you eat undercooked chicken? It won't all make you sick.
 
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right. and thats why I am curious about the change in opinion from some people, from just last summer vs now
It seems like you are equating "agreeing with a temporary ban" to "judging all muslims". If you don't equate those, I'm not sure opinions have changed too much.
 
It seems like you are equating "agreeing with a temporary ban" to "judging all muslims". If you don't equate those, I'm not sure opinions have changed too much.

will try wording another way then.

find it interesting that the same people had these views months apart:

---last summer/pre election,
voters wanted a complete islamic ban on immigration, which would provide citizens with the highest probability of safety.
(safety > perceived political correctness)

---in recent months/post election,
the same voters applaud only a partial islamic ban from select countries, rather than the previously desired complete ban.
the partial ban is specifically argued as a positive now, rather than a possible detriment to public safety.
(perceived political correctness > safety)

it is as if conservative voters somehow unknowingly adopted liberal traits.
 
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