Dartmouth Study: Democrats are by Far the Least Tolerant...

[Bethboilerfan]

Tried some coke once but I was to messed up on acid to tell if it had any effect.

It came from the laughable comment that Islam doesn't abide gay rights and women's rights. I agree about gay rights. Women's rights is a cultural issue in many countries and sects (Wahhabism, Taliban) but is not specifically Muslim.

My point is that many conservative viewpoints and religious viewpoints in the US don't abide gay rights. Should Catholics be forced to marry gay people so they can "assimilate" to what you say is now an American value?[/QUOTE]

No one is advocating the marriage of Catholics and gays - what are you suggesting? Are you unaware of what is happening in Chechnya? Are you aware of what is happening in other parts of the Muslim world? And I disagree with your statement about women's rights and Muslim beliefs. Look up some articles on FGM - note that Muslims are practicing that here in the US. Are you aware of the problems Muslim immigrants are causing in Europe?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/ chechen-authorities-rounding-killing-gay-men-prophylactic-purge/story?id=46541508.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Tried some coke once but I was to messed up on acid to tell if it had any effect.
It came from the laughable comment that Islam doesn't abide gay rights and women's rights. I agree about gay rights. Women's rights is a cultural issue in many countries and sects (Wahhabism, Taliban) but is not specifically Muslim.

My point is that many conservative viewpoints and religious viewpoints in the US don't abide gay rights. Should Catholics be forced to marry gay people so they can "assimilate" to what you say is now an American value?

This is where I have a problem with your logic. They don't assimilate. They don't want to respect separation of church and state. They want sharia law to manage their day to day activities and penal code. This is why pakistan ended up coming into being.

stolen from quora for the sake of time:
Sir Syed and Iqbal always advocated the idea of a separate Nation for Muslims of subcontinent. Jinnah was late to join the party as he stood for united subcontinent for many years. Due to series of events, with Nehru saying that there were only two forces in the subcontinent the British and the Hindus being the final nail in the coffin, Jinnah fully realized that the only way the Muslim minority got their fundamental rights was in a separate Nation. During his address in Lahore in 1940 he said

“Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religions,
Philosophies, social customs and literatures. They
neither inter-marry nor interdine together and indeed
they belong to two different civilizations which are
based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.”

 

[SDBoiler1]

Why does it matter if there is a call to prayer in Dearborn or a mosque in Plainfield? Do church bells going off at mass times in Catholic Churches bother you? It's literally the same thing.

We have white folks practicing religions that preach mass conversion. They knock on my door seemingly once a month....

Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses?

Mmmm hmmm.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

This is where I have a problem with your logic. They don't assimilate. They don't want to respect separation of church and state. They want sharia law to manage their day to day activities and penal code. This is why pakistan ended up coming into being.

stolen from quora for the sake of time:
Sir Syed and Iqbal always advocated the idea of a separate Nation for Muslims of subcontinent. Jinnah was late to join the party as he stood for united subcontinent for many years. Due to series of events, with Nehru saying that there were only two forces in the subcontinent the British and the Hindus being the final nail in the coffin, Jinnah fully realized that the only way the Muslim minority got their fundamental rights was in a separate Nation. During his address in Lahore in 1940 he said

“Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religions,
Philosophies, social customs and literatures. They
neither inter-marry nor interdine together and indeed
they belong to two different civilizations which are
based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.”

When you speak broadly about groups like this, and then I respond and say "not all Muslims have problems assimilating", you respond with "I didn't say ALL Muslims", and the conversation stops.

The fact is, many cultures don't fully assimilate into the Euro-American culture. Many urban black families aren't assimilated. Many hispanics aren't assimilated. Many Italians and Irish aren't assimilated in a lot of ways.

This is a BS argument because it doesn't apply to all or even most Muslims in this country, and applies equally to people of other cultures and religions.

The fact is, you guys don't like them because you equate Muslims with a certain cultural and educational level (read: refugees) and are scared those people are going to markedly change your way of life. I'd tell you that this is the US, not Europe. We've been absorbing other cultures for decades and Muslims aren't going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

When you speak broadly about groups like this, and then I respond and say "not all Muslims have problems assimilating", you respond with "I didn't say ALL Muslims", and the conversation stops.

The fact is, many cultures don't fully assimilate into the Euro-American culture. Many urban black families aren't assimilated. Many hispanics aren't assimilated. Many Italians and Irish aren't assimilated in a lot of ways.

This is a BS argument because it doesn't apply to all or even most Muslims in this country, and applies equally to people of other cultures and religions.

The fact is, you guys don't like them because you equate Muslims with a certain cultural and educational level (read: refugees) and are scared those people are going to markedly change your way of life. I'd tell you that this is the US, not Europe. We've been absorbing other cultures for decades and Muslims aren't going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

It is not true that I do not like them because they are refugees. I see them as a threat to our culture - I heard a world renowned physicist at the University of Pisa explain why he sees Muslim refugees as a threat to Italian culture. France has passed laws to attempt to save their sectarian culture and it isn't working. This threat has led to the rise of Marine Le Pen in France. I saw with my own eyes what is happening in Paris. There is a HUGE difference between Irish, Italian, Mexican, etc immigrants and Muslim immigrants. The turning point for me was FGM - that any people - a Muslim woman doctor! - could do this to children sickens me. One man cut off the labia and clitoris of his two year old, without anesthetic, with scissors - I can hardly type those words. And don't say it is also cultures other than Muslim - look up where this happens and who does it. In Chechnya [a mostly Muslim country] gays are being tortured and beheaded. Yes, there are some Muslims who have assimilated but that is not the majority. Now Minnesota is having problems. In the community I live in they live in compounds with high walls and send their children to Muslim schools - I do not think there is any attempt to "assimilate'. At first I defended them but I no longer, in good conscience, can do so.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

It is not true that I do not like them because they are refugees. I see them as a threat to our culture - I heard a world renowned physicist at the University of Pisa explain why he sees Muslim refugees as a threat to Italian culture. France has passed laws to attempt to save their sectarian culture and it isn't working. This threat has led to the rise of Marine Le Pen in France. I saw with my own eyes what is happening in Paris. There is a HUGE difference between Irish, Italian, Mexican, etc immigrants and Muslim immigrants. The turning point for me was FGM - that any people - a Muslim woman doctor! - could do this to children sickens me. One man cut off the labia and clitoris of his two year old, without anesthetic, with scissors - I can hardly type those words. And don't say it is also cultures other than Muslim - look up where this happens and who does it. In Chechnya [a mostly Muslim country] gays are being tortured and beheaded. Yes, there are some Muslims who have assimilated but that is not the majority. Now Minnesota is having problems. In the community I live in they live in compounds with high walls and send their children to Muslim schools - I do not think there is any attempt to "assimilate'. At first I defended them but I no longer, in good conscience, can do so.

Yeah, that map that was provided earlier in the islamaphobia (sic) thread had a whole bunch of Christian countries in it. "Muslim" isn't a culture. It's a religion practiced by many people in many different cultures. But at least you're willing to admit all this bullshit is just because you are afraid of them.

I guess you hate Christians too, since those countries practice FGM in West Africa. What a bunch of nonsense. If that's all it took for you to "stop defending" Muslims, you weren't trying very hard in the first place. What a load of crap.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

It is not true that I do not like them because they are refugees. I see them as a threat to our culture - I heard a world renowned physicist at the University of Pisa explain why he sees Muslim refugees as a threat to Italian culture. France has passed laws to attempt to save their sectarian culture and it isn't working. This threat has led to the rise of Marine Le Pen in France. I saw with my own eyes what is happening in Paris. There is a HUGE difference between Irish, Italian, Mexican, etc immigrants and Muslim immigrants. The turning point for me was FGM - that any people - a Muslim woman doctor! - could do this to children sickens me. One man cut off the labia and clitoris of his two year old, without anesthetic, with scissors - I can hardly type those words. And don't say it is also cultures other than Muslim - look up where this happens and who does it. In Chechnya [a mostly Muslim country] gays are being tortured and beheaded. Yes, there are some Muslims who have assimilated but that is not the majority. Now Minnesota is having problems. In the community I live in they live in compounds with high walls and send their children to Muslim schools - I do not think there is any attempt to "assimilate'. At first I defended them but I no longer, in good conscience, can do so.

Beth, just four short years ago, a young hotel owner in Belgium on the North Sea Coast told me that radical Muslims were taking over Brussels. Today, there are areas even the Belgium police will not enter. Their goal is to end Christianity, to instill their religion world-wide, and to make women nothing more than property.

It's time to take out the trash.

 

[Bruce1]

Yes but you have to look at who reported that. Fox? Excuse me but I absolutely hate the term "leftist". Now...I wonder who was funding all the anti Hilary stuff during the election cycle. Get the lobbyists and soft money out of politics on both sides. Otherwise stop the boo Hoo when someone does something you don't like.

Heller, I'm talking about violent demonstrations. Violence! Get it? Are you saying there are no organized left wing anarchists planning violence in response to people they disagree with,i.e. Trump?

 

[32zone]

I will concede this: the post with the quotes was intellectually lazy on my part. I didn't want to take the time to do a deep dive, so I went with what I had. If I wasn't going to any more than that, I should have left it alone. My bad.

Since you didn't take the time to do a "deep dive" as you say, just where the hell did you get these quotes from? Remember you started this nonsense with the below:

Trump's own words:
The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.
...laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control.
In reference to a federal judge: He's a Mexican...he's giving us very unfair rulings...
Also, he was sued multiple times for refusing to rent to black people.
But tell me more how dear old Mr. President is not a bigot. He may be strong on immigration, but he's clearly a bigot. The record speaks for itself.

Please don't tell me you pulled these off memes from your facebook feed.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Maybe it's God's Will that Trump won. Maybe, Trump was God's chosen one. After all Pastor, Jesus was just as "unique" as President Trump.

You can't possibly believe this. Not if you've read the Gospels.

Trump isn't unique at all. He's another Herod. He's another Caesar. He's just like all the other so-called "leaders" throughout history who were power-mad, egomaniacal, greedy manipulators of others.

Jesus' entire life, the purpose of his entire existence, was to serve others. Jesus' priorities were fairly clear: everyone else first, himself last. Trump's priorities are equally clear: himself first, everyone else after.

And you talk of the "chosen one?" The key mark of the chosen one throughout Biblical history is humility. Every leader chosen by God at least began with humility (though quite a few succumbed to pride at a later point). I doubt Trump even knows the meaning of the word.

That doesn't mean that God can't accomplish things through Trump, or more accurately, in spite of Trump. The Old Testament provides plenty of examples of God working through or around bad leaders. But to say that Trump is the "chosen one" and to compare him to Jesus in any way is the height of absurdity.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

When you speak broadly about groups like this, and then I respond and say "not all Muslims have problems assimilating", you respond with "I didn't say ALL Muslims", and the conversation stops.

The fact is, many cultures don't fully assimilate into the Euro-American culture. Many urban black families aren't assimilated. Many hispanics aren't assimilated. Many Italians and Irish aren't assimilated in a lot of ways.

This is a BS argument because it doesn't apply to all or even most Muslims in this country, and applies equally to people of other cultures and religions.

The fact is, you guys don't like them because you equate Muslims with a certain cultural and educational level (read: refugees) and are scared those people are going to markedly change your way of life. I'd tell you that this is the US, not Europe. We've been absorbing other cultures for decades and Muslims aren't going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

LOL just because you disagree doesn't make my comment BS. I have history on my side. Your qazian strawman of hispanics and italians doesn't hold up. America can withstand having sub cultures as long as those cultures aren't trying to undermine the founding principles and are tolerant of others. islam is not. They cause all kinds of civil unrest. They can't even get along within their own little sects. So you find me where all the welcoming peaceful muslims are. I can't live as a free person in their country, but I have to welcome them? Hell no. I don't respect them. I think they are brainwashed barbaric idiots who without having the luck of having oil reserves would still be derping around in the stone age. Their culture is not equal to ours. It's a piece of shit.

 

[Heller]

Heller, I'm talking about violent demonstrations. Violence! Get it? Are you saying there are no organized left wing anarchists planning violence in response to people they disagree with,i.e. Trump?

Killing people and bombings like some of the religious far right isn't part of anarchy? How about Oklahoma City? You telling me McVeigh was a liberal? I'm not excusing ANY violence left or right but I do see more of it from the far right than the far left.

 

[SKYDOG]

Killing people and bombings like some of the religious far right isn't part of anarchy? How about Oklahoma City? You telling me McVeigh was a liberal? I'm not excusing ANY violence left or right but I do see more of it from the far right than the far left.

Really, you can't be serious.

 

[Heller]

Really, you can't be serious.

Really I can. I consider Al Queda as a form of religious fundamentalism which aligns more with the right wing than the left.

 

[SKYDOG]

Really I can. I consider Al Queda as a form of religious fundamentalism which aligns more with the right wing than the left.

Well then I could say all the violence and killings in the inner cities (Chicago an the like) are done by the left. Are the violent protests in Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson, Charlotte, done by the right?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

You can't possibly believe this. Not if you've read the Gospels.

Trump isn't unique at all. He's another Herod. He's another Caesar. He's just like all the other so-called "leaders" throughout history who were power-mad, egomaniacal, greedy manipulators of others.

Jesus' entire life, the purpose of his entire existence, was to serve others. Jesus' priorities were fairly clear: everyone else first, himself last. Trump's priorities are equally clear: himself first, everyone else after.

And you talk of the "chosen one?" The key mark of the chosen one throughout Biblical history is humility. Every leader chosen by God at least began with humility (though quite a few succumbed to pride at a later point). I doubt Trump even knows the meaning of the word.

That doesn't mean that God can't accomplish things through Trump, or more accurately, in spite of Trump. The Old Testament provides plenty of examples of God working through or around bad leaders. But to say that Trump is the "chosen one" and to compare him to Jesus in any way is the height of absurdity.

Pastor, no where did I compare Trump to Jesus anymore than I'd compare you to God. If Trump is for Trump, why is it that he's so bent on helping the little guy? He's done it in his business and he's doing it now.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Pastor, no where did I compare Trump to Jesus anymore than I'd compare you to God. If Trump is for Trump, why is it that he's so bent on helping the little guy? He's done it in his business and he's doing it now.

When you say that Trump is as "unique" as Jesus, that absolutely is a comparison.

I'm not buying that Trump is "bent on helping the little guy." I just read this week about a paint shop owner who had to take Trump to court to get paid for product already delivered. (He won the case, too.) There are other stories that are similar.

The biggest beneficiaries of Trump's tax cuts aren't the "little guys." The biggest beneficiaries are Trump and his rich cronies. If you're bent on helping the little guy, you don't turn cabinet appointments into sinecures for your rich and completely unqualified friends (see Devos, Betsy).

Trump looks out for Trump. If, by chance, the little guy benefits in the process, all the better. I have yet to see Trump offer any policy or idea for change that involves him making a personal sacrifice. I'd love to see actual evidence of Trump self-sacrificing in order to help others. Maybe I've missed it. But all I see when I look at Mr. Trump is a dangerous egomaniac.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

LOL just because you disagree doesn't make my comment BS. I have history on my side. Your qazian strawman of hispanics and italians doesn't hold up. America can withstand having sub cultures as long as those cultures aren't trying to undermine the founding principles and are tolerant of others. islam is not. They cause all kinds of civil unrest. They can't even get along within their own little sects. So you find me where all the welcoming peaceful muslims are. I can't live as a free person in their country, but I have to welcome them? Hell no. I don't respect them. I think they are brainwashed barbaric idiots who without having the luck of having oil reserves would still be derping around in the stone age. Their culture is not equal to ours. It's a piece of shit.

Islam is not a CULTURE. Islam is a religion across many different cultures. And no, it is not, as a religion, attempting to undermine America.

There are certainly millions of Muslims who believe a political/social/religious ideology that seeks to undermine the West. We call them ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Taliban, Boko Haram, Abu Sayyaf, etc. But "ISLAM" does not.

So yes, I think your opinion and Beth's comments are "bullshit" because they're not actually well-reasoned. They're just based on fear.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Really I can. I consider Al Queda as a form of religious fundamentalism which aligns more with the right wing than the left.

There is no doubt that fundamentalist extremist groups are more closely aligned politically with conservatives than liberals. Liberal factions made up of young students in Iran were suppressed by the Ayatollah and his regime. Preservation of religious concerns, restricting expansion of civil rights only to certain groups, etc. are not tenets of the left, for certain.

 

[SKYDOG]

When you say that Trump is as "unique" as Jesus, that absolutely is a comparison.

I'm not buying that Trump is "bent on helping the little guy." I just read this week about a paint shop owner who had to take Trump to court to get paid for product already delivered. (He won the case, too.) There are other stories that are similar.

The biggest beneficiaries of Trump's tax cuts aren't the "little guys." The biggest beneficiaries are Trump and his rich cronies. If you're bent on helping the little guy, you don't turn cabinet appointments into sinecures for your rich and completely unqualified friends (see Devos, Betsy).

Trump looks out for Trump. If, by chance, the little guy benefits in the process, all the better. I have yet to see Trump offer any policy or idea for change that involves him making a personal sacrifice. I'd love to see actual evidence of Trump self-sacrificing in order to help others. Maybe I've missed it. But all I see when I look at Mr. Trump is a dangerous egomaniac.

Of course the the larger taxpayers will be helped by the Trump plan. The little guys you referenced hardly pay any if any federal taxes now.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Islam is not a CULTURE. Islam is a religion across many different cultures. And no, it is not, as a religion, attempting to undermine America.

There are certainly millions of Muslims who believe a political/social/religious ideology that seeks to undermine the West. We call them ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Taliban, Boko Haram, Abu Sayyaf, etc. But "ISLAM" does not.

So yes, I think your opinion and Beth's comments are "bullshit" because they're not actually well-reasoned. They're just based on fear.

pakistan and india was not well reasoned? How about the history of iraq and iran? turkey and armenia? yemen? saudi arabia? a thousand years of bullshit. that's the real bullshit. that bullshit "religion".

 

[gr8indoorsman]

pakistan and india was not well reasoned? How about the history of iraq and iran? turkey and armenia? yemen? saudi arabia? a thousand years of bullshit. that's the real bullshit. that bullshit "religion".

So, let's look at what's bullshit.

Beth brings up FGM as the reason why she'll no longer support Muslims. I point out that the stupid map that was posted here about FGM actually highlighted a number of Christian majority countries where FGM is prevalent, and zero correlation (let alone causation) between Islam and FGM. Countries like Iraq and Yemen had very little FGM relative to their Muslim populations (Iraq was like 8% vs more than 90% Muslim).

So yes, little basis in fact on her argument. And your argument isn't about those countries in the Middle East. Yours is about overthrowing the American government and way of life as a rule of *Islam*. As I said, yep, there are millions of Muslim (out of the Billion (with a B)) in the world who belong to organizations with political, cultural, and religious ideologies that DO want to see countries like America gone and religious freedom eradicated and to make the world Muslim. But that does NOT - repeat NOT - mean that ISLAM is based on trying to overthrow America.

So again, you guys all talk in broad terms about Islam, then get butthurt when I point out that not all or even not a majority of Muslims feel certain ways about various topics. So yes, your opinions, which are not in the least bit rooted in actual facts, but merely perception, are bullshit... in my opinion. Sorry, bro. Them's the breaks.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

FGM "The practice, prevalent in some majority Muslim countries, has a tremendous cost: many girls bleed to death or die of infection. Most are traumatized. Those who survive can suffer adverse health effects during marriage and pregnancy. New information from Iraqi Kurdistan raises the possibility that the problem is more prevalent in the Middle East than previously believed and that FGM is far more tied to religion than many Western academics and activists admit."

 

[Bethboilerfan]

"LGBT in Islam is influenced by the religious, legal and cultural history of the nations with a sizable Muslim population, along with specific passages in the Quran[1][2] and statements attributed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad (hadith).

"The traditional schools of Islamic law based on Quranic verses and hadith, and influenced by Islamic scholars such as Imam Malik and Imam Shafi, consider homosexual acts a punishable crime and a sin.[3] The Qur'an cites the story of the "people of Lot" destroyed by the wrath of God because they engaged in lustful carnal acts between men. Nevertheless, homoerotic themes were present in poetry and other literature written by some Muslims from the medieval period onwards and sometimes homoeroticism in the form of pederasty was seen in a positive way.[4]"

Wikipedia LGBT in Islam

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Google honor killings. Look at what has happened and is happening in Dearborn, Michigan. Here is one example: https://conservativedailypost.com/m...or-killing-shoots-daughter-in-head-for-allah/

There is a lawsuit against police coverup of Islamic honor killings. You can say it is fear or whatever but facts don't care. Facts don't care what you label me they are still facts. Yes, it was one horrific case that opened my eyes and maybe you too, will have an epiphany or maybe not. But the facts remain.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Right, all of those are some things that some Muslims in some cultures do. Guess what? There are honor killings in other cultures. There are plenty of Christians practicing FGM. And there are plenty of Christians and others who don't support LGBT rights.

Those are also facts. Do you want to restrict the rights of Catholics who don't want LGBT folks to have marriage rights? Do you want to persecute the Christians in Liberia, a country where the vast majority of the population is Christian and more than 90% of females have their genitalia mutilated?

When you're able to nail down how these are problems CAUSED BY ISLAM, I'll believe your opinion isn't just a bunch of bullshit rooted in fear and ignorance. Until then, I think we're done here because you're not moving the needle.

 

[SKYDOG]

Right, all of those are some things that some Muslims in some cultures do. Guess what? There are honor killings in other cultures. There are plenty of Christians practicing FGM. And there are plenty of Christians and others who don't support LGBT rights.

Those are also facts. Do you want to restrict the rights of Catholics who don't want LGBT folks to have marriage rights? Do you want to persecute the Christians in Liberia, a country where the vast majority of the population is Christian and more than 90% of females have their genitalia mutilated?

When you're able to nail down how these are problems CAUSED BY ISLAM, I'll believe your opinion isn't just a bunch of bullshit rooted in fear and ignorance. Until then, I think we're done here because you're not moving the needle.

I'm a Catholic so yes to that question.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I'm a Catholic so yes to that question.

Also Catholic and don't agree with those Catholics that deny LGBT rights. It's not solely an Islam thing.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

I think Pope Francis would agree with both of you.

 

[Bruce1]

Killing people and bombings like some of the religious far right isn't part of anarchy? How about Oklahoma City? You telling me McVeigh was a liberal? I'm not excusing ANY violence left or right but I do see more of it from the far right than the far left.

You refuse to address the specifics of my post: organized, funded left wing anarchists whose mission is to cause a violent disruption of other groups rights to free speech.

McVeigh was a lone wolf. Stay on the topic pls rather than deflect the conversation as your only defense.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

So, let's look at what's bullshit.

Beth brings up FGM as the reason why she'll no longer support Muslims. I point out that the stupid map that was posted here about FGM actually highlighted a number of Christian majority countries where FGM is prevalent, and zero correlation (let alone causation) between Islam and FGM. Countries like Iraq and Yemen had very little FGM relative to their Muslim populations (Iraq was like 8% vs more than 90% Muslim).

So yes, little basis in fact on her argument. And your argument isn't about those countries in the Middle East. Yours is about overthrowing the American government and way of life as a rule of *Islam*. As I said, yep, there are millions of Muslim (out of the Billion (with a B)) in the world who belong to organizations with political, cultural, and religious ideologies that DO want to see countries like America gone and religious freedom eradicated and to make the world Muslim. But that does NOT - repeat NOT - mean that ISLAM is based on trying to overthrow America.

So again, you guys all talk in broad terms about Islam, then get butthurt when I point out that not all or even not a majority of Muslims feel certain ways about various topics. So yes, your opinions, which are not in the least bit rooted in actual facts, but merely perception, are bullshit... in my opinion. Sorry, bro. Them's the breaks.

lol they are facts. islam may not try to overthrow America, but it is incompatible in its current form. That religion needs a SERIOUS reformation if it is going to coexist with western philosophy. The only one butthurt is you. You can't admit the very serious long running problems with islam. You don't want to see it because it doesn't go along with your relativist world view.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

lol they are facts. islam may not try to overthrow America, but it is incompatible in its current form. That religion needs a SERIOUS reformation if it is going to coexist with western philosophy. The only one butthurt is you. You can't admit the very serious long running problems with islam. You don't want to see it because it doesn't go along with your relativist world view.

I think Islam itself is perfectly compatible with the US because our principles allow for any religion regardless of perceived "compatibility". Some people who practice it are not, and those people are criminals. That could be applied to literally every religion out there. Our society does not allow Satanists to sacrifice virgins to the dark lord. Our society doesn't allow FGM under any principle, Muslim or otherwise. Our society does not allow for stoning of homosexuals based on religious principles. If a Muslim decides to stone a homosexual or an adulterer, they get tried in a court of law, just like a good old Catholic would.

There are plenty of Muslims in this country who have assimilated just fine, and I'd wager there are more who have than those who have not. I contend that those who have not struggle more with the cultural and educational issues than strictly religious issues.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

What I hope is that I can explain my recent change of position on this issue. I saw women in burkas, in hijabs, in burkinis. I read about girls who refused to swim in school pools with boys. I saw elderly women standing while young men lounged in comfortable chairs. I saw women walking paces behind men. I read about "honor killings". I honestly thought "so what" these are exceptions. But when I saw and read about and learned more about FGM I suddenly realized that all of this is linked because Muslims believe that women are temptresses who without provocation would be sexually promiscuous if they were not controlled. If their hair and bodies are not covered and if in extreme views, their genitals are not mutilated women would lead men astray like sirens luring sailors to their death. Do Muslims hate or fear women or view them as chattel? I don't know but I do now understand that their views about women are very different and in fact, incompatible with the views of our democracy. If another religion is doing these things then they too are suspect - it doesn't make Muslims right or moral. Of course, there are Muslims who have assimilated and who do not hold these views but I do not believe they are the majority.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

But when I saw and read about and learned more about FGM I suddenly realized that all of this is linked because Muslims believe that women are temptresses who without provocation would be sexually promiscuous if they were not controlled. Of course, there are Muslims who have assimilated and who do not hold these views but I do not believe they are the majority.

And again, FGM is not a universally accepted Muslim "thing". Some countries it is more prevalent than others. There's debate as to whether it's a religious requirement or a tribal tradition.

Here in the states, it's illegal. People who perform it are criminals. That's not changing any time soon. If they choose to practice it, they can go to jail... just like others who fail to assimilate to our society.

The more adult and responsible thing to do would be to go learn about Malala and other people fighting for women's rights in the Muslim world, rather than condemning the entire religion and those who practice it writ large, which does no good whatsoever because it doesn't solve a damn thing.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

How many of you have actually taken the time to read the Qur’an and see what it says? You might be surprised at what you discover.

2:89-“Therefore, the curse of Allah is upon the unbelievers!”

2:97-“Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael, lo! Allah is an enemy of the unbelievers.”

2:191-“Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”

2:193-“Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.”
Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

3:10-“Those who disbelieve, neither their riches nor their children shall save them from Allah. They shall become the fuel of the fire.”

3:28-“The believers should not take the unbelievers as friends or helpers in preference to the believers. He who does this does not belong to Allah in anything, unless you have a fear of them.”

Read the Qur’an for yourself at http://www.parsquran.com/eng/book/

Kill them, hunt them down, slay them, steal their wealth....terror is mentioned throughout the Quoran.

 

[BoilerBiker]

What I hope is that I can explain my recent change of position on this issue. I saw women in burkas, in hijabs, in burkinis. I read about girls who refused to swim in school pools with boys. I saw elderly women standing while young men lounged in comfortable chairs. I saw women walking paces behind men. I read about "honor killings". I honestly thought "so what" these are exceptions. But when I saw and read about and learned more about FGM I suddenly realized that all of this is linked because Muslims believe that women are temptresses who without provocation would be sexually promiscuous if they were not controlled. If their hair and bodies are not covered and if in extreme views, their genitals are not mutilated women would lead men astray like sirens luring sailors to their death. Do Muslims hate or fear women or view them as chattel? I don't know but I do now understand that their views about women are very different and in fact, incompatible with the views of our democracy. If another religion is doing these things then they too are suspect - it doesn't make Muslims right or moral. Of course, there are Muslims who have assimilated and who do not hold these views but I do not believe they are the majority.

some of those details remind me of growing up in my rural, conservative church(es)

women required to:
-wear long dresses
-not expose shoulders or back
-some wear head coverings
-not wear makeup
-not have pierced ears
-take no leadership positions within the church
-be secondary to husbands (e.g. when introduced, first to speak, etc)

also common:
-no dancing
-no movie theatres
-no Sunday working/shopping/purchases
-division of male/female activities, studies
-married women not pursuing careers and stay at home after first child

 

[gr8indoorsman]

How many of you have actually taken the time to read the Qur’an and see what it says? You might be surprised at what you discover.

2:89-“Therefore, the curse of Allah is upon the unbelievers!”

2:97-“Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael, lo! Allah is an enemy of the unbelievers.”

2:191-“Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”

2:193-“Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.”
Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

3:10-“Those who disbelieve, neither their riches nor their children shall save them from Allah. They shall become the fuel of the fire.”

3:28-“The believers should not take the unbelievers as friends or helpers in preference to the believers. He who does this does not belong to Allah in anything, unless you have a fear of them.”

Read the Qur’an for yourself at http://www.parsquran.com/eng/book/

Kill them, hunt them down, slay them, steal their wealth....terror is mentioned throughout the Quoran.

You ever read some of the crazy shit that's in the Bible?

 

[SDBoiler1]

You ever read some of the crazy shit that's in the Bible?

The Old Testament or the New Testament?

One must understand that in the Old Testament the Prophets gave the laws/rules/regulations the Israelites must follow - and some of them were pretty crazy because the people were committing some pretty crazy crimes and doing stupid things - just like today, where crazy laws are sometimes required because people do stupid things. "Their hearts were hard."

 

[gr8indoorsman]

The Old Testament or the New Testament?

They're both read in church on Sunday.