Dartmouth Study: Democrats are by Far the Least Tolerant...

[SDBoiler1]

students on campus. What a surprise. If you don't agree with us, you're a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, and Islamophobe......

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/26...least-tolerant-students-campus/#disqus_thread

 

[32zone]

Did we really need a study to draw this conclusion?

 

[burbo]

students on campus. What a surprise. If you don't agree with us, you're a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, and Islamophobe......

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/26...least-tolerant-students-campus/#disqus_thread

You didn't use all the proper terms you deplorable, you forgot misogynistic and xenophobe.

 

[Heller]

Do we need such a simplistic study. Honestly if she looked like a young Elizabeth Shue she could have been my roommate if she hated puppies. As a fiscal conservative I wouldn't want to live with some gay bashing anti abortionist who ranted daily about it. I also remember when the FBI recruited young republicans to collect data on who attended anti-war rallies during Vietnam.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Do we need such a simplistic study. Honestly if she looked like a young Elizabeth Shue she could have been my roommate if she hated puppies. As a fiscal conservative I wouldn't want to live with some gay bashing anti abortionist who ranted daily about it. I also remember when the FBI recruited young republicans to collect data on who attended anti-war rallies during Vietnam.

You're whining to me because I posted an article about a study done at Dartmouth? Whine to the people who performed the study if you don't like the results. It is but one data point, but that doesn't diminish the validity of the findings.

Also, I fail to see how your experiences 50 years ago are relevant to today's often hyper-liberal, sometimes anarchistic university settings.

 

[Heller]

You're whining to me because I posted an article about a study done at Dartmouth? Whine to the people who performed the study if you don't like the results. It is but one data point, but that doesn't diminish the validity of the findings.

Also, I fail to see how your experiences 50 years ago are relevant to today's often hyper-liberal, sometimes anarchistic university settings.

I can guarantee that anarchistic settings were much worse during the Vietnam War years than they are today. Ever hear of Kent State? I'm not whining btw, it's a stupid study.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

I read the article. Is Dartmouth a private or public school? I know very little about it but I thought it was a very small private school.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I read the article. Is Dartmouth a private or public school? I know very little about it but I thought it was a very small private school.

Dartmouth is an Ivy League school (small, liberal arts) located in Hanover, NH.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Dartmouth is an Ivy League school (small, liberal arts) located in Hanover, NH.

Thanks - just looked it up and it has less than 7,000 students.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Thanks - just looked it up and it has less than 7,000 students.

And according to the National Center for Education Statistics, in the Fall of 2016, there were something around 20 million college students in the United States. So the OP here took a study with a decidedly not random sample of 0.035% of the total student population in the country and inferred a universal application.

EDIT: Just read the article again and noticed that the survey only included 432 of the 7000 Dartmouth students (6.17%). It wasn't even representative of that campus! And it reduces the sample to a whopping 0.00216%.

That is the textbook definition of hasty generalization.

(Note: I'm not saying that Democrats are any more or less tolerant than Republicans or Libertarians or Communists. All groups have their tolerant and intolerant members. The only real difference is who is or is not tolerated.)

 

[TwinDegrees2]

students on campus. What a surprise. If you don't agree with us, you're a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, and Islamophobe.....

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/26...least-tolerant-students-campus/#disqus_thread

And this is something we all knew. More intolerant that ISIS.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I can guarantee that anarchistic settings were much worse during the Vietnam War years than they are today. Ever hear of Kent State? I'm not whining btw, it's a stupid study.

Berkley been in the news recently? While I hated what happened at Kent State, it is old news that hasn't happened again on a campus.

 

[SDBoiler1]

And according to the National Center for Education Statistics, in the Fall of 2016, there were something around 20 million college students in the United States. So the OP here took a study with a decidedly not random sample of 0.035% of the total student population in the country and inferred a universal application.

EDIT: Just read the article again and noticed that the survey only included 432 of the 7000 Dartmouth students (6.17%). It wasn't even representative of that campus! And it reduces the sample to a whopping 0.00216%.

That is the textbook definition of hasty generalization.

(Note: I'm not saying that Democrats are any more or less tolerant than Republicans or Libertarians or Communists. All groups have their tolerant and intolerant members. The only real difference is who is or is not tolerated.)

OK, show us a study like this that is larger in scope. HINT: It likely doesn't exist. Funny, I never said anything about a universal application (that is, an implied one), but you certainly inferred into what I was thinking. This study was about Dartmouth, and Dartmouth only. I thought it was interesting, so I cited it.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

OK, show us a study like this that is larger in scope. HINT: It likely doesn't exist. Funny, I never said anything about a universal application (that is, an implied one), but you certainly inferred into what I was thinking. This study was about Dartmouth, and Dartmouth only. I thought it was interesting, so I cited it.

Fair enough. I did, in fact, make an inference that was not explicit in your original post. But do you seriously expect me to believe that there wasn't any implicit assumption of universality in it?

 

[Bruce1]

Do we need such a simplistic study. Honestly if she looked like a young Elizabeth Shue she could have been my roommate if she hated puppies. As a fiscal conservative I wouldn't want to live with some gay bashing anti abortionist who ranted daily about it. I also remember when the FBI recruited young republicans to collect data on who attended anti-war rallies during Vietnam.

So you disagree with the findings or are you just shooting the messenger ?

 

[Bruce1]

And according to the National Center for Education Statistics, in the Fall of 2016, there were something around 20 million college students in the United States. So the OP here took a study with a decidedly not random sample of 0.035% of the total student population in the country and inferred a universal application.

EDIT: Just read the article again and noticed that the survey only included 432 of the 7000 Dartmouth students (6.17%). It wasn't even representative of that campus! And it reduces the sample to a whopping 0.00216%.

That is the textbook definition of hasty generalization.

(Note: I'm not saying that Democrats are any more or less tolerant than Republicans or Libertarians or Communists. All groups have their tolerant and intolerant members. The only real difference is who is or is not tolerated.)

It s the same method used in all surveys and polls, hence the possibility of being wrong. Pastor, are you disagreeing with the results that liberals are less tolerant than conservatives or just trying to deflect?

 

[Bethboilerfan]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with liberals being more or less tolerant. My point is ONLY ABOUT THE STUDY. I think it is a good point to recognize that the methodology used in this study is suspect. Reading it reminded me of a middle school assignment where we surveyed parents and friends about an issue - I certainly recognize now that our study had no reliability and no validity. To quote it would be ridiculous. I feel the same way about the Dartmouth study.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

It s the same method used in all surveys and polls, hence the possibility of being wrong. Pastor, are you disagreeing with the results that liberals are less tolerant than conservatives or just trying to deflect?

Yeah, I think liberals and conservatives are both intolerant of each other's ideas. The methods are different, but that doesn't make conservatives all hunky-dory happy people who just want to mind their own business nor does it make liberals free thinking peace loving flower children.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

It s the same method used in all surveys and polls, hence the possibility of being wrong. Pastor, are you disagreeing with the results that liberals are less tolerant than conservatives or just trying to deflect?

I don't think studies like this are helpful because people groups are not monolithic. In my experience, I have been around progressives who are not just intolerant but downright mean-spirited towards conservatives, dismissing them as stupid, ignorant, rednecks, that kind of thing. I have also been around conservatives who are hateful towards progressives. The reverse is true as well, and far more often.

The dominant experience in my life has been with people who are relatively kind and well-meaning, even if they disagree. Much of my current church is comprised of staunch conservatives. They know that I am not. We get along fine.

In a very unscientific perusal of my Facebook feed, it seems that my more conservative friends are more likely to post comments and stories about "snowflakes" or "stupid liberals" that attack progressives as a group, whereas my progressive friends are more likely to post comments and stories directed at a specific issue or position rather than at conservatives as a whole.

Intolerance is not the prerogative of any political party or group. It's irrelevant to me whether one is more or less intolerant than the other. We need to focus on trying, within reason, to eliminate aggressive, hateful intolerance altogether.

Short answer: I do disagree with the study if it is used to infer larger generalizations. (It is not really the way that all studies are done in that they did not attempt to create a nationalized, representative sample).

 

[BoilerJS]

Look, for the last 8 years we had one of the most liberal presidents in US history. How many riots and conservative demonstrations did we have in this Country?
Now we have a President that is only somewhat conservative with a platform against public funding of abortion and we have riot after riot about women's health. Since when does abortion have anything to do with women's health?
He is hard on enforcing the existing immigration laws and is portrayed as a racist.
Liberals are not more tolerant than conservatives and a survey done at a liberal college, confirming this, is pretty revealing.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

I think if you said "liberal students at Dartmouth are less tolerant" it would be quite different than generalizing to all students or even worse to all people. Dartmouth is a very small private school in New Hampshire. [Did some research on Dartmouth] I am sure that the students who go there are quite different than students who choose Stanford or Purdue or MSU. A liberal at a small, very expensive, private school in New Hampshire is, in MHO, very different from a liberal at say Ohio State in for example, their exposure to other groups, perspectives, and attitudes.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Since when does abortion have anything to do with women's health? .

Ah... hahahahahahaha! Good one! I love good literary humor!

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Look, for the last 8 years we had one of the most liberal presidents in US history. How many riots and conservative demonstrations did we have in this Country?
Now we have a President that is only somewhat conservative with a platform against public funding of abortion and we have riot after riot about women's health. Since when does abortion have anything to do with women's health?
He is hard on enforcing the existing immigration laws and is portrayed as a racist.
Liberals are not more tolerant than conservatives and a survey done at a liberal college, confirming this, is pretty revealing.

Surely you can see that this is looking at history through rose colored glasses. Or at least, it is defining intolerance in absurdly narrow terms. Intolerance encompasses far more than "riots and conservative demonstrations." It also encompasses snarky comments calling people who disagree with a conservative position "snowflakes" and suggesting that a disagreement with war = a lack of patriotism (both of which I head multiple times during the last 8 years). Further, it encompasses refusing to even engage in conversation with the other side, the example set for us by Mitch McConnell and the rest of his sycophantic goons.

You need to distinguish between riot and protest. They are not the same thing. And the majority of protests are not violent. The only ones that get coverage are the violent ones, so it can seem that way, but it is not the case.

I don't consider Trump a racist bigot because he wants to enforce existing immigration laws. I consider Trump a racist bigot because he has repeatedly generalized that all or most of the immigrants that are coming to this country from Latin America are rapists and murderers and criminals. It is possible to enforce immigration laws without being a racist. Trump just doesn't seem interested in doing that.

Honestly, it seems to me sometimes that conservative Trump supporters don't even listen to the things he says and, when they do, they insist on interpreting every comment in such a way as to make it nothing but sunshine and roses. This from the same people who insisted that everything Barack Obama said was the words of Satan himself.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

He is hard on enforcing the existing immigration laws and is portrayed as a racist.

Trump's own words:

The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.

...laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control.

In reference to a federal judge: He's a Mexican...he's giving us very unfair rulings...

Also, he was sued multiple times for refusing to rent to black people.

But tell me more how dear old Mr. President is not a bigot. He may be strong on immigration, but he's clearly a bigot. The record speaks for itself.

 

[Bruce1]

Yeah, I think liberals and conservatives are both intolerant of each other's ideas. The methods are different, but that doesn't make conservatives all hunky-dory happy people who just want to mind their own business nor does it make liberals free thinking peace loving flower children.

Nobody said Conservatives were hunky dory people. The post is that Liberals are less tolerant. The evidence that is showing up in the streets is undeniable. There have been hundreds of anti Trump marches. Very few have been violently opposed. Same cannot be said for the other side.

 

[BoilerJS]

a disagreement with war = a lack of patriotism
------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama doesn't disagree with war.
He just funds the enemy to the tune of 1.5 billion dollars.
Except for rare occasion, abortion is not a women's health issue. Actually just the opposite.
Trump wasn't referring to all immigrants coming here as rapists and drug lords, but there are a lot of illegals coming across the border that are just that.
I can't understand why this is so hard to comprehend for people. Trump isn't anti immigrant. He's anti illegal immigrant. He wants to vet persons coming to this country to protect us.
I quick story, my brother in law is pretty liberal. We have many political discussions where both are respectful of the others opinion.
We had a clash about the ban on immigrants from mostly Muslim countries. He didn't see the big deal. He lives in Midland Michigan where the Federal Government moved in 23 refuge families. His opinion about the ban has changed drastically in the last 6 months after they moved to his city.
His biggest concern is why they moved these persons into a city that manufactures so many chemicals. If these people are peace loving, why the concern?
It's kind of like the I'm for clean energy nuclear power but I don't want one in my back yard.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I don't think studies like this are helpful because people groups are not monolithic. In my experience, I have been around progressives who are not just intolerant but downright mean-spirited towards conservatives, dismissing them as stupid, ignorant, rednecks, that kind of thing. I have also been around conservatives who are hateful towards progressives. The reverse is true as well, and far more often.

The dominant experience in my life has been with people who are relatively kind and well-meaning, even if they disagree. Much of my current church is comprised of staunch conservatives. They know that I am not. We get along fine.

In a very unscientific perusal of my Facebook feed, it seems that my more conservative friends are more likely to post comments and stories about "snowflakes" or "stupid liberals" that attack progressives as a group, whereas my progressive friends are more likely to post comments and stories directed at a specific issue or position rather than at conservatives as a whole.

Intolerance is not the prerogative of any political party or group. It's irrelevant to me whether one is more or less intolerant than the other. We need to focus on trying, within reason, to eliminate aggressive, hateful intolerance altogether.

Short answer: I do disagree with the study if it is used to infer larger generalizations. (It is not really the way that all studies are done in that they did not attempt to create a nationalized, representative sample).

Dartmouth did a study focused on its own students. Many universities conduct studies on many topics on their own students, in just the same way. Not sure why this is a problem.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Nobody said Conservatives were hunky dory people. The post is that Liberals are less tolerant. The evidence that is showing up in the streets is undeniable. There have been hundreds of anti Trump marches. Very few have been violently opposed. Same cannot be said for the other side.

Wait, Conservatives aren't hunky dory people? Bruce, my entire worldview is shattered. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Dartmouth did a study focused on its own students. Many universities conduct studies on many topics on their own students, in just the same way. Not sure why this is a problem.

It's not a "problem," so long as the results of the study are kept within the framework under which it was conducted. The scope of the study limits its application. It is an accurate representation of the students at Dartmouth. It is not (necessarily) an accurate represetnation of anything else.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Nobody said Conservatives were hunky dory people. The post is that Liberals are less tolerant. The evidence that is showing up in the streets is undeniable. There have been hundreds of anti Trump marches. Very few have been violently opposed. Same cannot be said for the other side.

So you're narrowly defining intolerance as violent protests?

What about various attacks against Muslims? Those aren't done by "liberals."

And again, you're not accurately summarizing the study in question. It is not saying that "Liberals" are less tolerant. It is saying that "Liberals at Dartmouth" are less tolerant.

 

[WindyCityBoiler20]

So you're narrowly defining intolerance as violent protests?

What about various attacks against Muslims? Those aren't done by "liberals."

And again, you're not accurately summarizing the study in question. It is not saying that "Liberals" are less tolerant. It is saying that "Liberals at Dartmouth" are less tolerant.

I'd say that violent protests are one of the most blatant examples of intolerance - but definitely not the only form available.

There is a huge difference between disagreeing with one another and engaging in scholarly debate (not intolerance just disagreement, which I think we can all agree is healthy in a democracy); and undergoing violent protests to suppress an opposing idea from even being discussed (intolerance). What has been going on against conservative speakers in Universities all across the nation is intolerance.

I am sure there are plenty of instances where conservatives have been intolerant of liberal view points as well, but they seem to be far less mainstream. As for the Muslim comment I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "attacks against muslims" so I can't really comment.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

I'd say that violent protests are one of the most blatant examples of intolerance - but definitely not the only form available.

There is a huge difference between disagreeing with one another and engaging in scholarly debate (not intolerance just disagreement, which I think we can all agree is healthy in a democracy); and undergoing violent protests to suppress an opposing idea from even being discussed (intolerance). What has been going on against conservative speakers in Universities all across the nation is intolerance.

I am sure there are plenty of instances where conservatives have been intolerant of liberal view points as well, but they seem to be far less mainstream. As for the Muslim comment I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "attacks against muslims" so I can't really comment.

I couldn't agree more about the distinction between disagreement and intolerance. We need disagreement for our system to function at its best.

I also agree that what is happening to conservative speakers at Universities is wrong, to a point. A University should be a place where students are exposed to a whole spectrum of viewpoints. I find Ann Coulter to be repugnant and hateful and would never in a million years expose myself or anyone I cared about to her particular way of speaking about conservatism. But that doesn't mean that she shouldn't be allowed to speak. Is protesting her appearance a valid exercise of free speech? Absolutely. Is intimidating the officials to the point that she cannot come without putting herself and others at personal risk okay? Hell no.

The "to a point" for me comes with regard to certain levels of extremism - Seb Gorka. There does have to be a line somewhere, I think. And my personal opinion is that being an active member of a modern neo-nazi group is on the other side of that line. But that's my line, and if Purdue wanted to have Gorka come talk, I wouldn't go out and protest it to the extent of keeping it from happening.

Finally, my reference to Muslim attacks was to try and broaden the definition of intolerance in this thread. So far, it seems focused on these protests. But when I read stories of a guy shooting two Indian engineers while shouting "Get out of my country," I consider that intolerance, too. When I read about Muslim women having their hijabs forcibly removed or being subjected to verbal harassment for them, that's intolerance. When communities go out of their way to try to prevent the establishment of a mosque or a masjid, that's intolerance. When mosques are graffitied, burned, etc - that's intolerance. I'm growing weary of the attempt by so many conservatives to claim the moral high ground in this discussion by pretending that the extreme elements of their own party aren't just as bad. (Not including you in this group, as I appreciate the reasoned response)

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

a disagreement with war = a lack of patriotism
------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama doesn't disagree with war.
He just funds the enemy to the tune of 1.5 billion dollars.
Except for rare occasion, abortion is not a women's health issue. Actually just the opposite.
Trump wasn't referring to all immigrants coming here as rapists and drug lords, but there are a lot of illegals coming across the border that are just that.
I can't understand why this is so hard to comprehend for people. Trump isn't anti immigrant. He's anti illegal immigrant. He wants to vet persons coming to this country to protect us.
I quick story, my brother in law is pretty liberal. We have many political discussions where both are respectful of the others opinion.
We had a clash about the ban on immigrants from mostly Muslim countries. He didn't see the big deal. He lives in Midland Michigan where the Federal Government moved in 23 refuge families. His opinion about the ban has changed drastically in the last 6 months after they moved to his city.
His biggest concern is why they moved these persons into a city that manufactures so many chemicals. If these people are peace loving, why the concern?
It's kind of like the I'm for clean energy nuclear power but I don't want one in my back yard.

I am not afraid of Muslims.

I would have zero problem if a family of Muslim refugees moved in next door to me. If I could, I would take a refugee family into my own home. I would allow them to use space in our church for their prayers (Like St. Thom's at Purdue did for a time). I would invite them to our home for a meal after sundown during Ramadan. I would welcome the opportunity to expose my children to children from a different culture and perspective. I would be their friend and their advocate.

And, after all of that, if it so happened that one of them turned into an extremist, and perpetrated an act of violence against the US, I would grieve with the rest of the family and offer what support I could. I will choose love and respect every single time, because love and respect is what will bring an eventual end to extremism on both sides.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I am not afraid of Muslims.

I would have zero problem if a family of Muslim refugees moved in next door to me. If I could, I would take a refugee family into my own home. I would allow them to use space in our church for their prayers (Like St. Thom's at Purdue did for a time). I would invite them to our home for a meal after sundown during Ramadan. I would welcome the opportunity to expose my children to children from a different culture and perspective. I would be their friend and their advocate.

And, after all of that, if it so happened that one of them turned into an extremist, and perpetrated an act of violence against the US, I would grieve with the rest of the family and offer what support I could. I will choose love and respect every single time, because love and respect is what will bring an eventual end to extremism on both sides.

I like your philosophy about love and respect, but it isn't practical at this time. You can't change the minds of people who aren't open to change - and there are neo-Nazis, Westboro Baptist, Black Panthers, ISIS and Al-Qaeda, ANTIFA members who will never change IMHO.

Your post reminds me of the song "Imagine" by John Lennon. It sounds utopian (except for the "no religion, too" part), but it is naïve and impractical in reality.

 

[32zone]

Trump's own words:

The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.

...laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control.

In reference to a federal judge: He's a Mexican...he's giving us very unfair rulings...

Also, he was sued multiple times for refusing to rent to black people.

But tell me more how dear old Mr. President is not a bigot. He may be strong on immigration, but he's clearly a bigot. The record speaks for itself.

Good lord I feel sorry for your congregation. You are one of the most misinformed people on these boards and you have a influence over a group of people who look to you for leadership every week. Truly sad.

FWIW - just because you get sued by black people doesn't mean you're a racist. And it took me two seconds after googling the statement "laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control" to learn that our President never uttered these words.

It took me another 5 seconds after googling the two other statements you attribute to our President that these are not direct quotes that these are second hand accounts of conversations - one from a disgruntled ex employee of Trump's.

So basically nothing in what you posted above is true and you could've learned that yourself with just a few seconds of effort.

You are such a dope.

 

[BoilerJS]

Pastor if Muslims or any race or religion comes into this country and gets along with people, keeps their bed room habits and religion personal, than I agree with everything you said. We have Christians, Buddhists and Jews that all get along and assimilated.
When you have dead goats in the street and little girls sexual parts being mutilated-that's not assimilating.
That's obviously a small portion of the Muslim faith, it is however enough of a problem to give these people a bad name.
Have yo ever seen a Muslim washing their feet in a public sink? I have. Have you ever had to work on a Semi that Muslims had drilled a hole in the floor so they could do their duty? My nephew has. Until they assimilate and quit doing stupid stuff as mentioned above-they will get a bad rap.
Now throw in the ones that want to kill us and that not many of the Muslim faith are condemning this stuff and the rap gets worse.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Nobody said Conservatives were hunky dory people. The post is that Liberals are less tolerant. The evidence that is showing up in the streets is undeniable. There have been hundreds of anti Trump marches. Very few have been violently opposed. Same cannot be said for the other side.

If both sides are intolerant, which I think they are, it doesn't really matter to me who is MORE tolerant. It's a 6-year-old "He started it" argument, which is exactly what we've seen from both sides in the recent past. Republicans telling Democrats to shut up and deal with it because they won the election; Democrats telling Republicans that they were going to deny everything because that's what Republicans did.

It's basically been the opposite of what I was hoping would happen, which was a political outsider would come in and tell both parties to shut the F up and play ball. Maybe we'll get there, but we're not there yet.

But yeah, reasoned, civil discourse is lacking on both ends of the spectrum, so I don't really care one bit who's worse. The answer to that is, of course, solely in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Pastor if Muslims or any race or religion comes into this country and gets along with people, keeps their bed room habits and religion personal, than I agree with everything you said. We have Christians, Buddhists and Jews that all get along and assimilated.
When you have dead goats in the street and little girls sexual parts being mutilated-that's not assimilating.
That's obviously a small portion of the Muslim faith, it is however enough of a problem to give these people a bad name.
Have yo ever seen a Muslim washing their feet in a public sink? I have. Have you ever had to work on a Semi that Muslims had drilled a hole in the floor so they could do their duty? My nephew has. Until they assimilate and quit doing stupid stuff as mentioned above-they will get a bad rap.
Now throw in the ones that want to kill us and that not many of the Muslim faith are condemning this stuff and the rap gets worse.

I totally agree with you - their beliefs about women, FGM, gays and lack of assimilation are frightening. Europe is experiencing tremendous problems because of this lack of assimilation. It is impossible to travel in some European countries without seeing the damage to the culture of these countries by Muslims. In Paris last spring we were shaken by the changes. I did not always think/feel like this - it is a new position for me.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Pastor if Muslims or any race or religion comes into this country and gets along with people, keeps their bed room habits and religion personal, than I agree with everything you said. We have Christians, Buddhists and Jews that all get along and assimilated.
When you have dead goats in the street and little girls sexual parts being mutilated-that's not assimilating.
That's obviously a small portion of the Muslim faith, it is however enough of a problem to give these people a bad name.
Have yo ever seen a Muslim washing their feet in a public sink? I have. Have you ever had to work on a Semi that Muslims had drilled a hole in the floor so they could do their duty? My nephew has. Until they assimilate and quit doing stupid stuff as mentioned above-they will get a bad rap.
Now throw in the ones that want to kill us and that not many of the Muslim faith are condemning this stuff and the rap gets worse.

A lot of the stuff you talk about as being "Muslim" isn't because of their religion. It's cultural - Arabic, Pashtun, Persian, etc. Culture and religion are intertwined, but a "Muslim" drilling a hole in a semi so they can "do their duty" was not some kind of edict by Muhammad. I'm pretty sure that if a Mexican had done it, you wouldn't be calling it a Christian thing. But again, I'm barking up the wrong tree here, I'm sure...

 

[Heller]

Funny how people claim violent protests are solely one segment or another. Anyone who uses violence is an idiot. I don't paint all conservatives because a few idiots killed people who worked in a clinic r those who blew them up. I wouldn't blame all liberals because some of them are idiots. Or because some of the Minutemen shoot across the border. Stupid assholes are everywhere.