Will Matt Painter shake up the staff?

[RegionWarrior101]

Is someone going to be the fall guy for this failure to improve and blow lead after lead? Painter will pull a "Basketball Shoop" if you will?

Painter's early teams were good, Big Ten Champs, Sweet 16s. I think then assistants Paul Lusk and Rick Ray were pretty good strategy guys, maybe the Xs and Os behind the operation. Both left, both became head coaches (success has been iffy for both, but head coaches none the less). I have to assume the current staff, although loveable (Brantley), does not have the same basketball acumen.

 

[lbodel]

Is someone going to be the fall guy for this failure to improve and blow lead after lead? Painter will pull a "Basketball Shoop" if you will?

Painter's early teams were good, Big Ten Champs, Sweet 16s. I think then assistants Paul Lusk and Rick Ray were pretty good strategy guys, maybe the Xs and Os behind the operation. Both left, both became head coaches (success has been iffy for both, but head coaches none the less). I have to assume the current staff, although loveable (Brantley), does not have the same basketball acumen.

To compare basketball to football is ridiculous. Football's head coach is making the same amount as Painter and has won 6 games in 3 years. Yet there isn't "outrage", everyone is just like "la la la" with Hazell.

Purdue had a very good overall season. The notion that we "blew lead after lead" is a nice storyline, but we also didn't have any "bad losses" (and only 1 questionable loss with Illinois). And as for blowing leads, quite frankly - that was the only thing that could happen for most of the season because we did not find ourselves "down big" very much at all throughout the entire season, let alone down in general. While we did not win, we had pretty furious comebacks in both the IU and MSU games off the top of my head. You also see continual improvement over the season and over individual players' careers. So those are all indications of good overall coaching.

I don't know the details of the responsibilities of our assistant coaches enough to say this or that person should be let go. Quite frankly, I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say someone needs to be fired after a 26 win season.

Obviously fixing things with a team is a "plan ahead" game. We have what appears to be a pretty good solution in the wings for point guard, an area we need some assistance in. I think people also forget that most of our rotation is true freshmen and sophomores.

And another note on the freshmen/sophomores - I think these guys have a different style than we've seen over the past few years. Davis/Hammons don't really have that "moxy" - offensively at least. A lot of these freshmen/sophomores are very confident with themselves and don't get afraid - Vince, Swanigan, Cline, Mathias, etc. You didn't really see Davis/Hammons in some of these "memorable losses" and have the attitude of "I'm not going to let this happen" - I think some of our younger guys will have that. We all flipped out about Swanigan taking the 3 - but hey, he wasn't afraid. I'll take a team of guys that aren't afraid to step up to the plate and that's the team that Painter has been building. I definitely welcome that.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Is someone going to be the fall guy for this failure to improve and blow lead after lead? Painter will pull a "Basketball Shoop" if you will?

Painter's early teams were good, Big Ten Champs, Sweet 16s. I think then assistants Paul Lusk and Rick Ray were pretty good strategy guys, maybe the Xs and Os behind the operation. Both left, both became head coaches (success has been iffy for both, but head coaches none the less). I have to assume the current staff, although loveable (Brantley), does not have the same basketball acumen.

Brantley was a huge factor in the growth of H&H. You are dumb to even mention him as being replaced.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Brantley was a huge factor in the growth of H&H. You are dumb to even mention him as being replaced.

I didn't mention him as needing to be replaced, but you need that strong strategy guy. Not like football with the coordinators, but you need a recruiting specialist (Kendrick) and a strategy specialist (Bruce Weber). None of these assistants is going to be courted for an HC job anytime soon, which, ideally, is what you want. A staff that other people want to steal.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

To compare basketball to football is ridiculous. Football's head coach is making the same amount as Painter and has won 6 games in 3 years. Yet there isn't "outrage", everyone is just like "la la la" with Hazell.

Purdue had a very good overall season. The notion that we "blew lead after lead" is a nice storyline, but we also didn't have any "bad losses" (and only 1 questionable loss with Illinois). And as for blowing leads, quite frankly - that was the only thing that could happen for most of the season because we did not find ourselves "down big" very much at all throughout the entire season, let alone down in general. While we did not win, we had pretty furious comebacks in both the IU and MSU games off the top of my head. You also see continual improvement over the season and over individual players' careers. So those are all indications of good overall coaching.

I don't know the details of the responsibilities of our assistant coaches enough to say this or that person should be let go. Quite frankly, I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say someone needs to be fired after a 26 win season.

Obviously fixing things with a team is a "plan ahead" game. We have what appears to be a pretty good solution in the wings for point guard, an area we need some assistance in. I think people also forget that most of our rotation is true freshmen and sophomores.

And another note on the freshmen/sophomores - I think these guys have a different style than we've seen over the past few years. Davis/Hammons don't really have that "moxy" - offensively at least. A lot of these freshmen/sophomores are very confident with themselves and don't get afraid - Vince, Swanigan, Cline, Mathias, etc. You didn't really see Davis/Hammons in some of these "memorable losses" and have the attitude of "I'm not going to let this happen" - I think some of our younger guys will have that. We all flipped out about Swanigan taking the 3 - but hey, he wasn't afraid. I'll take a team of guys that aren't afraid to step up to the plate and that's the team that Painter has been building. I definitely welcome that.

Cline is not afraid? CLANK

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

To compare basketball to football is ridiculous. Football's head coach is making the same amount as Painter and has won 6 games in 3 years. Yet there isn't "outrage", everyone is just like "la la la" with Hazell.

Purdue had a very good overall season. The notion that we "blew lead after lead" is a nice storyline, but we also didn't have any "bad losses" (and only 1 questionable loss with Illinois). And as for blowing leads, quite frankly - that was the only thing that could happen for most of the season because we did not find ourselves "down big" very much at all throughout the entire season, let alone down in general. While we did not win, we had pretty furious comebacks in both the IU and MSU games off the top of my head. You also see continual improvement over the season and over individual players' careers. So those are all indications of good overall coaching.

I don't know the details of the responsibilities of our assistant coaches enough to say this or that person should be let go. Quite frankly, I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say someone needs to be fired after a 26 win season.

Obviously fixing things with a team is a "plan ahead" game. We have what appears to be a pretty good solution in the wings for point guard, an area we need some assistance in. I think people also forget that most of our rotation is true freshmen and sophomores.

And another note on the freshmen/sophomores - I think these guys have a different style than we've seen over the past few years. Davis/Hammons don't really have that "moxy" - offensively at least. A lot of these freshmen/sophomores are very confident with themselves and don't get afraid - Vince, Swanigan, Cline, Mathias, etc. You didn't really see Davis/Hammons in some of these "memorable losses" and have the attitude of "I'm not going to let this happen" - I think some of our younger guys will have that. We all flipped out about Swanigan taking the 3 - but hey, he wasn't afraid. I'll take a team of guys that aren't afraid to step up to the plate and that's the team that Painter has been building. I definitely welcome that.

I agree with lbodel in that you can't compare football assistant coaches to basketball. Brantley has been a very good coach for the development of the big's and saying that an assistant coach needs to be held responsible is a little ridiculous. In football, the OC and DC have a much larger hand in what is occurring on gameday and in practice than that of the assistant coaches for basketball. The responsibility starts and ends more with the head coach in basketball than it does in football.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

I agree with lbodel in that you can't compare football assistant coaches to basketball. Brantley has been a very good coach for the development of the big's and saying that an assistant coach needs to be held responsible is a little ridiculous. In football, the OC and DC have a much larger hand in what is occurring on gameday and in practice than that of the assistant coaches for basketball. The responsibility starts and ends more with the head coach in basketball than it does in football.

My point is that since those two left (Lusk and Ray), in-game adjustments have been few and far between. Most staffs have the guy next to the coach to yell out sets, plays, timeout, game management, etc. I remember going to NU all those times in the 90s and hearing Bruce communicate to Gene who then would adjust, repeat what Bruce said, etc.

Maybe bring in a coach who has seen a press break. I know, CRAZY ideas.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

My point is that since those two left (Lusk and Ray), in-game adjustments have been few and far between. Most staffs have the guy next to the coach to yell out sets, plays, timeout, game management, etc. I remember going to NU all those times in the 90s and hearing Bruce communicate to Gene who then would adjust, repeat what Bruce said, etc.

Maybe bring in a coach who has seen a press break. I know, CRAZY ideas.

Actually I thought the press break was probably the best we had seen for a total game all season. That wasn't the problem IMO until the last 5 minutes of the game when Painter went with no point guards.

 

[FirstDownB]

To compare basketball to football is ridiculous. Football's head coach is making the same amount as Painter and has won 6 games in 3 years. Yet there isn't "outrage", everyone is just like "la la la" with Hazell..

I agree basketball and football are apples and oranges.
But, no offense.. what group of Purdue football fans have you been hanging around? The fan apathy in football came only after years of outrage and the masses demanding the coach's head only to be told everything is going according to plan by the AD. Eventually fans just give up on a situation that appears hopeless.
The fact that fans are PO'd is not the worst thing in the world. It shows people still care and haven't thrown in the towel.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

I agree basketball and football are apples and oranges.
But, no offense.. what group of Purdue football fans have you been hanging around? The fan apathy in football came only after years of outrage and the masses demanding the coach's head only to be told everything is going according to plan by the AD. Eventually fans just give up on a situation that appears hopeless.
The fact that fans are PO'd is not the worst thing in the world. It shows people still care and haven't thrown in the towel.

A local radio show this morning, the host who is a Purdue guy, his dad a JPC guy, etc. said Purdue is "too polite" to fire people. He may have a point. I think the stance from the President on down is that what should be the #1 revenue sport, football, it is OK to go 6-30. Basketball, our "best sport," is OK to be upper middle class in the Big Ten (we are NOT a top tier team; have to win a title now and then for that), that does not perform well in the tournament.

 

[boiler62]

My point is that since those two left (Lusk and Ray), in-game adjustments have been few and far between. Most staffs have the guy next to the coach to yell out sets, plays, timeout, game management, etc. I remember going to NU all those times in the 90s and hearing Bruce communicate to Gene who then would adjust, repeat what Bruce said, etc.

Maybe bring in a coach who has seen a press break. I know, CRAZY ideas.

I don't know how they break down coaching duties but someone needs to be in charge of breaking the press and we do a horrible job of that now! It looked to me like LR was in a 2-2-1 and you need to attack that with a 1-3-1 set and play the gaps. We were so disorganized that sometimes we did not have middle man and on one trip we had 2 players in the middle and you can't be disorganized against a press!

 

[lbodel]

I agree basketball and football are apples and oranges.
But, no offense.. what group of Purdue football fans have you been hanging around? The fan apathy in football came only after years of outrage and the masses demanding the coach's head only to be told everything is going according to plan by the AD. Eventually fans just give up on a situation that appears hopeless.
The fact that fans are PO'd is not the worst thing in the world. It shows people still care and haven't thrown in the towel.

The loudest I see people on here getting is about Painter. Not football...and quite frankly, not women's basketball. Of those 3 main sports, we're the best at men's basketball, yet people complain more about that after a 26 win season! I mean, I don't think some people will EVER be happy. I guess that's why anonymous forums exist.

 

[lbodel]

Cline is not afraid? CLANK

So you don't want Ryan Cline on our team and not looking forward to his career as a Boilermaker? Is that what you're saying? He's a damn true freshman. Just because you aren't afraid, doesn't mean you make 100%.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

So you don't want Ryan Cline on our team and not looking forward to his career as a Boilermaker? Is that what you're saying? He's a damn true freshman. Just because you aren't afraid, doesn't mean you make 100%.

No but he played scared yesterday.

 

[banshee90]

The loudest I see people on here getting is about Painter. Not football...and quite frankly, not women's basketball. Of those 3 main sports, we're the best at men's basketball, yet people complain more about that after a 26 win season! I mean, I don't think some people will EVER be happy. I guess that's why anonymous forums exist.

1.This is a basketball forum.
2. No one gives a damn about womens sports enough to want a womens coach fired!
3. Painter has been here for 10 years and for 6 of those years he must have stopped recruiting
4. Football is a lost cause and everyone has already accepted we are going to be the worse B1G team for the next decade (its the purdue way!)
5. Painter seems to choke away big leads (illinois, Iowa, Iowa, Cinci, UALR)

 

[Schnelk]

I predict the Cline bashers will quietly disappear next season.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Cline will be a really good player, the man will get stronger, and the experience he gained this year, which showed him what he needs to work on, will show up next year. I am glad he is a Boilermaker

 

[BBG]

Cline will be a really good player, the man will get stronger, and the experience he gained this year, which showed him what he needs to work on, will show up next year. I am glad he is a Boilermaker

Agreed. We are actually a pretty "young" team, well .. were. Cline will be a stud very shortly I think and has already showed glimpses of it. Imagine how deadly he will be by his senior year?

I will give Painter credit, we needed shooters and he went out and got a couple (Dakota and Cline). Kendall I hope sticks around and works his butt off so he can be what we all want him to be as well.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Agreed. We are actually a pretty "young" team, well .. were. Cline will be a stud very shortly I think and has already showed glimpses of it. Imagine how deadly he will be by his senior year?

I will give Painter credit, we needed shooters and he went out and got a couple (Dakota and Cline). Kendall I hope sticks around and works his butt off so he can be what we all want him to be as well.

Spoke with a friend last night and he said this:
'Painter seems to over compensate with the shortcomings of his program: a few years ago we didn't have enough athletes, and he gets projects in Barlow, Hale, Lawson, and R. Johnson. We don't have enough quality bigs, so he gets absolutely huge. We don't have enough shooters, so he gets a roster full of them. Now we are severely lacking in playmakers and slashers.'

A major issue is that although this roster had talent, it didn't have enough complementary talent. Look at Duke for example. Their roster is very similar to Purdue's. Quality big man and shooters but they have one to two guys who are very athletic that are able to get the ball in the lane and open up a defense. Purdue had Davis who was supposed to fill that role and he simply didn't do that this year.

Kendall would have to be extremely loyal to stick around because if he didn't play this year, he isn't going to play next year when you add Carsed Edwards as a combo guard, Smotherman as a SF/PF, and Weatherford as a defensive player. Where do his minutes come from when it is obvious Mathias will slide in to Davis' starting spot and Cline will still be ahead of him. He would be lucky to get 10 minutes a game next season. I'll bet he transfers to a school around where he is from for his final final season. The best option for him would be to stick around, graduate, and be a 5th year transfer to a P5 school looking to add a player for a scoring punch off the bench.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

The loudest I see people on here getting is about Painter. Not football...and quite frankly, not women's basketball. Of those 3 main sports, we're the best at men's basketball, yet people complain more about that after a 26 win season! I mean, I don't think some people will EVER be happy. I guess that's why anonymous forums exist.

As someone sort of pointed out earlier in this thread, people simply aren't talking football because it's a lost cause until another head coach comes in. People realize that Morgue doesn't care about the things he stated were the reasons for finding a new coach to begin with because Hazell has been 10 times worse than Hope...not competing and getting blown out, losing fans on Saturdays, poor game planing, and long term vision for the program. Looking at what he stated was the reasoning behind firing Hope, you'd have to be stupid to not see Hazell has been a massive mistake.

The reason why people are upset and asking for Painter to go is because many people feel the last four years is a trend of what Painter is or will become. He is a good coach, yes, but not a coach that is going to bring titles to West Lafayette on a consistent basis. If the goal of the athletic department is just to compete in basketball and hope to win a conference title every once in awhile, at least have the balls to say it like they did about the football program so fans can either:
A) quit caring so much when Purdue fails to win titles
B) find another college to support that gives a damn about winning
C) both A and B

Because as much as I love Purdue football, for the first time in my life I am having to actively find reasons to get myself to watch games and go to a spring practice. I don't want to become an apathetic fan of the men's basketball program because we are too afraid of what might happen if an above-average coach is fired.

 

[TJBoiler]

Brantley was a huge factor in the growth of H&H. You are dumb to even mention him as being replaced.

Then hire a shooting coach. Maybe Rick Mount will take the job.

 

[TJBoiler]

As someone sort of pointed out earlier in this thread, people simply aren't talking football because it's a lost cause until another head coach comes in. People realize that Morgue doesn't care about the things he stated were the reasons for finding a new coach to begin with because Hazell has been 10 times worse than Hope...not competing and getting blown out, losing fans on Saturdays, poor game planing, and long term vision for the program. Looking at what he stated was the reasoning behind firing Hope, you'd have to be stupid to not see Hazell has been a massive mistake.

The reason why people are upset and asking for Painter to go is because many people feel the last four years is a trend of what Painter is or will become. He is a good coach, yes, but not a coach that is going to bring titles to West Lafayette on a consistent basis. If the goal of the athletic department is just to compete in basketball and hope to win a conference title every once in awhile, at least have the balls to say it like they did about the football program so fans can either:
A) quit caring so much when Purdue fails to win titles
B) find another college to support that gives a damn about winning
C) both A and B

Because as much as I love Purdue football, for the first time in my life I am having to actively find reasons to get myself to watch games and go to a spring practice. I don't want to become an apathetic fan of the men's basketball program because we are too afraid of what might happen if an above-average coach is fired.

Purdue football sucks. Be real. Don't waste your money until Hazell is gone.

 

[Purdue Alumnus]

Is someone going to be the fall guy for this failure to improve and blow lead after lead? Painter will pull a "Basketball Shoop" if you will?

Painter's early teams were good, Big Ten Champs, Sweet 16s. I think then assistants Paul Lusk and Rick Ray were pretty good strategy guys, maybe the Xs and Os behind the operation. Both left, both became head coaches (success has been iffy for both, but head coaches none the less). I have to assume the current staff, although loveable (Brantley), does not have the same basketball acumen.

I thought Painter let Hazell coach the end of the game.