Unranked in ESPN's Way Too Early Top 25
- Thread starter BoilerStation
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How does the saying go?
"Necessity is the mother of the invention."
Something like that?
Biggie was great this year for many reasons. His void may create the need for offensive and defensive creativity from everyone in the team. There will be opportunities and thirst for the success galore this coming year. I am sure everyone is hungry, especially from the beating taken by KU.
Well, here is to the new opportunities!
Boiler Up!!
"Necessity is the mother of the invention."
Something like that?
Biggie was great this year for many reasons. His void may create the need for offensive and defensive creativity from everyone in the team. There will be opportunities and thirst for the success galore this coming year. I am sure everyone is hungry, especially from the beating taken by KU.
Well, here is to the new opportunities!
Boiler Up!!
Let's put this in your court. You're 19-20 years old, you're coming off an knee injury which could have ended your career if worse. You've sat all winter watching your friends play the game, and someone with a fat wallet comes by and offers you millions of dollars. What are you going to do...stay and risk another injury or are you going to take the money and run?
I guess the answer really depends on how much the injury affected/will affect Anunoby's draft status. That's what I meant by a risk. Will he even be healed well enough to work out for teams before June?
I'm not questioning whether or not entering the draft will appeal to Anunoby. I'm sure it will.
Minnesota should be ranked preseason top 25 as should Purdue though. Indiana and MSU are questionable to say the least
You got the Biggie glasses still on. He also turned the ball over 3.5 times a game and some of those rebounds would have been picked up by teammates. He also was not a rim protector or athletic enough to close out on big men that can shoot. Maybe we get that next year in Taylor or Ondigo (or on a super long shot w McCoy.) Everybody thought we would take a huge step back after last year. I didn't see the drop off. I think next year 15-20 is still a reasonable explanation. Just need to figure out the 5 position. The upside is that we are adding Wheeler, Eastern, and Ewing which adds athleticism and length. All are very large defensive improvements over Cline and they may even challenge PJ as a starter, which would again make us bigger and more athletic. I expect similar results next year without Biggie, and if for some reason he stays, we should really improve! Biggie would be able to be much more aggressive. We should still be a Big Ten favorite and be a 4-6 come tournament time. Only one way to find out!
I figure Minny for the favorite BIG champion. Good players and good coach.
My guess is that we have a new comer in the contenders like Iowa or PSU based on how they played this year. Both are young and talented. Iowa will miss Jok more than they know. I figure Purdue to be 2rd-4th next year. NW will be in this second tier too. I figure Purdue will finish ahead of NW, PSU, and Iowa, but one of those guys might have our number.
MSU is a wild card. I don't know if Izzo can get that group to play like a team or not. Even if they continue to stubble, they will be in the mix. IU without Bryant will be in the second half of the BIG, still good, but not in contention next year. Archie may need some time to adjust to the BIG.
OSU will remain wandering in the wilderness. It will take ILL at least 2 years to recover from the coaching change, IMHO.
My guess is that we have a new comer in the contenders like Iowa or PSU based on how they played this year. Both are young and talented. Iowa will miss Jok more than they know. I figure Purdue to be 2rd-4th next year. NW will be in this second tier too. I figure Purdue will finish ahead of NW, PSU, and Iowa, but one of those guys might have our number.
MSU is a wild card. I don't know if Izzo can get that group to play like a team or not. Even if they continue to stubble, they will be in the mix. IU without Bryant will be in the second half of the BIG, still good, but not in contention next year. Archie may need some time to adjust to the BIG.
OSU will remain wandering in the wilderness. It will take ILL at least 2 years to recover from the coaching change, IMHO.
Who cares what ESPN says or thinks? They are a faltering network. They have financial as well as a social agendas that their talking heads try to promote. Conversely, until Purdue can win at a higher level on a consistent basis, they don't pull a big enough market to get the recognition our fans feel we deserve.
Well three of those ranked schools will be in the Bahamas with us. We'll know soon enough how we stack up with them.
IU is 15th? Really 15th? Ahead of Villanova, MSU, Gonzaga, Northwestern? Butler is not even ranked? Is this a mistimed April Fools' joke?
Well, they do say that T. Bryant is not going to the NBA. I am not sure where that is coming from, because I had thought he was gone. Interesting.
the legit polls like AP and coaches will have us ranked in the pre-season, bank on it
Our top 6 players are rock solid. We will be ranked. If a couple of the newcomers + Taylor turn out to be solid contributors, we will show up in the top 10 sometime in the season
Our top 6 players are rock solid. We will be ranked. If a couple of the newcomers + Taylor turn out to be solid contributors, we will show up in the top 10 sometime in the season
This and quite frankly I like it when we are underestimated. Takes some pressure off and we then win many more games than people think we will.
Apparently, if you have read these boards the answer is not just YES,....but H#LL YES.
Painter on the other hand, is kind of saying no, through his actions, by in turn recruiting a couple athletic shot blockers to see if he can find one replacement that will provide on court production.
I think Painter is just trying to tie up loose ends in that he would like to have Taylor be able to contribute but realizes that with prior history it is a good idea to find guys who can step in if Taylor ends up just being a player who became too injured to play.
It is unfortunate but retrospectively I think it would have been smart to give Taylor a medical shirt his first year and a redshirt his second year and focus solely on rehabbing his injury. If that meant a year away from anything physically taxing beyond shooting free throws to allow the foot to fully heal, it would have probably proved beneficial. However, I am not overly tall and suffering from foot problems so a tall guy with foot problems may just be something they always deal with through life.
Agree with you here. I like Taylor don't get me wrong and would love to see him be the impact player some here project he will be, but we need to be realistic in that he has yet to really show us anything since he has been hurt.
I am not expecting much production out of Taylor, but it is a non-zero probability that he can contribute
I think 2 significant contributors out of 7 (Eastern, Haarms, Wheeler, Ewing, Sasha, Taylor, plus the late addition) is not asking for too much.
Probably Eastern (our lone 4 star) and Haarms (had a redshirt year and now reputedly bulked up to 250) and Wheeler (sounding like the bargain of the class) would be the frontrunners to contribute. But you never know!
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Last year, Haas was number 8 in minutes played. Purdue's sportswriter predicts Haas won't play that much more in MP's system next year. If I was Haas and I thought this to be true, I'd join the draft. As a role player, Haas can be very effective in the NBA.
In the ESPN article, the writer tells how much Karnowski will be missed by Gonzaga. IMO, Haas was better than he and definitely had more skills. Without Haas, we will finish fourth. We have size and shot blocking ability with Taylor and Haarms next year, but we need bulk. Allowing Haas to work through his mistakes and understand he can be more aggressive (i.e. - Haas set effective picks, but Karnowski set HARD picks) and we will in the Big 10 next year.
A lot of great posts, I'm sure mine will suck as usual.
We will be more athletic next year, we've all seen what quickness and speed and hops can do too change a game. I wonder about Cline, yes, he is a streak shooter, but slow and at 6'5", with little quickness, I think some of the new guys might be getting his minutes.
PJ at the 1, Eastern subbing in for PJ and CE when needed at the 2. Painter will have many ways to tinker with this group.
Boiler Up!
We will be more athletic next year, we've all seen what quickness and speed and hops can do too change a game. I wonder about Cline, yes, he is a streak shooter, but slow and at 6'5", with little quickness, I think some of the new guys might be getting his minutes.
PJ at the 1, Eastern subbing in for PJ and CE when needed at the 2. Painter will have many ways to tinker with this group.
Boiler Up!
Underestimated can go both ways though. A perception in the media of not being a great or good teams carrie weight towards the conference perception of being down which in turn can diminish our record and hurt come seeding time. If we are overrated the polls at very least will be more lenient when we lose.
This is a legitimate question. Do you actually watch the NBA? If so, how have you come to the conclusion that Haas can be very effective in today's game with teams going smaller(but longer), faster and more athletic? There isn't a single thing Haas can do better than Hammons and AJ barely sniffs playing time and has spent maybe half the year in the D league. I agree that Haas is better than Karnowski but they weren't on the same team so the loss of a big man on another team doesn't translate equally to the loss of a big man on our team. Haas is never going to be allowed to set HARD picks. How many times this year was he called for a foul with a basic post up move?. Numerous times.
Haas has more moves and is a more prolific scorer than AJ down low. AJ was a better college player, because he was a great weak side shot blocker. He has more quickness and much more anticipation than Haas. They both play good post D with Haas being a touch more intimidating. They both block out well, Haas a little better, but AJ more quickness and anticipation going for the board. AJ was better, but they both need to be much more aggressive going after the ball. AJ had more playing time and thus he could adapt better to what was going on on the court. AJ is a first round draft choice and I think if he gets more minutes he can be a good backup in the NBA. IMO, Haas will play more at this point in the NBA, because he is a more prolific scorer down low than AJ. This is exactly what a good NBA coach wants for short spurts in the game. Haas will not control the boards, he will not slough off and make a great block; but he will defend his man in the post and he will add instant offense. If Haas declares for the draft and a coach studies his moves, IMO Haas will be drafted at the end of the first round. Like AJ, a coach feels they can make a player become more aggressive. If both do, they will have a long life in the NBA. JJ was long, lean and much more athletic than both of them, but I did not think he would make it in the NBA for long.
BTW, I had hoped at the time and I posted that AJ and Haas should have played more together - like Karnowski and Collins for Gonzaga. IMO, AJ would have learned more playing 7-10 minutes as a PF per game. He would have learned better footwork for guarding quicker players and that would have advanced his skills a lot more.
This also was another point for why I wanted Vince to play more small forward this year. He will not play PF in the NBA and needs to learn how to play quicker SF's. This year, if Vince had played more SF, IMO he would have played much better against the potential first pick of Kansas. If he did, that would have elevated his NBA status.
I guess I just disagree with you on Haas and his playing style translating at all in today's NBA game. He cannot keep up with the other centers and they aren't going to be intimidated by him. No team is going to make him the focal point on offense and maybe he gets a couple spot minutes here and there if he can make a roster which I'm not even sure of. 25 years ago it would have happened and he would be a lottery pick. Haas should have been a huge mismatch for any team going up against us but there were quite a few games were he wasn't a factor or missed lots of open shots from 5 feet out. He needed to be finishing through contact on a regular basis and dunking everything he can to show his power. I think you are just higher on him than most any scout will be and we saw his inability to guard anybody away from the basket. The difference is AJ can be taught to at least somewhat keep up with a man outside of the paint. Haas can't be taught because he doesn't have the speed, quickness and agility to do it. If you aren't an elite athlete, shot blocker or put back center in the NBA you better have a mid range game and we have never seen anything to indicate that he has one.
The risky option for him would be to come back, get hurt again, and potentially not be a first round pick.
When I watched Haas this year, I noticed that when he was in the game the other team had a dramatic decrease of lay ups, put backs and short jumpers. I am trying to think of centers who beat him one on one. Bryant went around him only once and then Haas stopped him. Haas stopped Haap completely. Wilson is the only one, who played well offensively against him. The reason is that he hit two long range 3's and then had two drives. Can you name another center? I can't. In the NBA, how many centers shoot 3's? I think you are badly mistaken; Haas plays good D against players who shoot within 15 feet. I saw at least 5 times where a center made some inside shots and after Haas entered their shots missed the rim. Haas is not a shot blocker, but he gets in front of his man and he intimidates. His strength in the NBA will be even better utilized.
Yes, I see Haas miss shots inside usually because he lacks aggression. This will not be a problem in the NBA. Haas can also be encouraged to hit the 12-15 foot jump shot. He shoots over 70% of his FT's. BTW, wasn't his FG% over 58%?
I repeat, a smart NBA Coach if he sees his team missing jump shots will insert Haas and feed him. Haas scores what - a point every minute and a half?
In part why he isn't beaten off the dribble as much is Painter pulls him from the game because he can't match up or gets himself into foul trouble. If Haas is on and hitting his bunnies then he is given more time or they try to get everything they can out of his limited minutes. It's a chess match and Painter is trying to maximize his minutes before the other team takes advantage of him not being able to play away from the basket. In the NBA there are lots of 4's and even some 5's who take shots from outside and from 3. If everybody played a traditional 5 man then yea he would be fine but a lot of teams play small so you end up with power forwards playing the so called center position. You can't just say aggression will not be a problem in the future when it is a current problem. Haas is able to score inside easily when he does in large part because he is bigger than almost everyone he plays against. He does have some quality moves so I will give him that. He may have a few inches on a lot of NBA centers but his size advantage will be nothing like it is in college and NBA centers are more athletic than what he is facing in college. Shooting 70% from the ft line with nobody guarding you, flat footed does not correlate to shooting from 12-15 feet in a game. FT's are almost all mental. For a guy that doesn't shoot outside of maybe 8 feet, I'm not exactly blown away by 58% from the field. Haas is a good to maybe very good college center. The NBA is full of college stars who are now just roll players.
Haas, even as a role player in the NBA, needs to show more consistency and an ability to play in the paint without TO's and passing more effectively. The overall prospects for next years draft are much lower than the 2017 class and that bodes well for Haas and Vince if they improve on what they struggle with.
The thin overall class of 2018 could bode well for Boilermaker fans in Biggie's decision. Biggie has long said it was a business decision and he would do what he feels is in his best interest. I have recently heard that Biggie wants to get his Elementary Ed degree and dreams of one day being a teacher to impact the lives of children. He is currently on track to finish that degree next year (outside of his in-field experience but that can be modified for student athletes). If Biggie believes he can have a comparable year to this past year and the less deep 2018 draft can have him get in to the 10-15 range, that would be an improvement of over $3 million per year in his contract. He also would likely not slip beyond what is projected now.
My opinion is that he will enter the draft fully eventually...I just don't think the decision is fullly made up yet. Wait for the NBA combine and see how he performs there first...that is more than likely what will determine Biggie's decision.
I hadn't looked into next year's expected draft but had wondered how strong it was considered to be. This year's is considered very deep which gives him almost no chance of breaking the top 20. I think you are spot on as it being viewed as a business decision and whether or not the opportunity to move up is worth the loss of a year's salary for the upcoming season. If he comes back, a weak 2018 draft and the thoughts of a larger guaranteed rookie contract may be the reason why he does so.
You imagine things. You are saying MP pulls him from the game, because MP believe he will be beaten off the dribble. However, when he is in the game, they have seldom beat him off the dribble???
If your team is not scoring and they are going small, then you definitely put Haas in the game.
He has been beaten off the dribble. It doesn't always mean a basket is scored. Sometimes a foul is committed by Haas, or somebody else picks up the foul helping. Sometimes it results in a kick out for a wide open 3 due to somebody else having to help. Sometimes they miss the basket. All of those things have happened multiple times during the season. Just because a team doesn't score on a play where they beat you doesn't mean the defense is actually working. 2 years ago we went twin towers I think for like a minute at most. If memory serves me correctly we gave up a very open look and fouled them and Painter immediately substituted because he saw the disadvantage. Head coaches know the game quite a bit better than us and may know there is a disadvantage and are just waiting for evidence that the other team also knows it then they make the change. I also believe that Haas turns the ball over at a higher rate than anybody else on the team.
You have just listed all the reasons Haas should turn pro. MP does not like the twin tower system that Gonzaga used very effectively, as well as Kansas and North Carolina. Again 1 minute of twin tower effect is not enough to evaluate. I agree that Haas should have played more, because he was very rough around the edges and committed far too many turnovers - at least 1 too many turnovers per game. It is like taking a wild shot per game where they get an easy rebound. If you add 1 missed shot attempt per game to Haas' stats, he still shoots over 51%. MP was patient with CE's mistakes and played him more minutes than Haas. As a result, CE grew and will be even more productive next year. IMO, Haas should have been given the same opportunity. IMO MP is not grooming Haas correctly, but I may be completely wrong. Perhaps Haas is a screw up in practice and does not take basketball that serious. If Haas priorities are to have a fun college life, be an outstanding engineer and then basketball; I applaud him, but then I am wrong about his NBA career.
My problem with your argument is that you say Haas has trouble against the dribble, but offer no proof. Haap was the best dribbling center in the league and Haas contained him. Wilson got hot and burned him for one half, but in the 2nd half he missed his 3 pointer and then when he went into his spin move against Haas, Biggie picked his pocket. I only remember the center Bryant dribbling around him and that was one time. I do remember other players driving in and Haas picking them up and instead of them shooting they passed to someone else, but I see that as a positive for Haas. If any other poster can think of a center who beat him, please let me know.
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I'm not going to address all of that because I get tired of arguing but just because there aren't as many centers per say who can dribble and shoot from outside doesn't mean every team is playing a center. Haas has to guard a player on the court, it doesn't matter if it's a center or a guard. He has to guard somebody so not being able to contain another player on the opposing team is the issue. Lots of teams go small, playing guys who play away from the paint more so. No they aren't the traditional center because most teams don't even have one which means nothing because they are the tallest guy on the court for their teams and that is who Haas will be guarding. Btw, Happ cannot shoot. It doesn't matter if they are a center or not because that's who he will guard. And to say Haas needs to go pro without knowing his own personal motivation or opinions to further YOUR own argument is off. From all accounts Isaac is very happy at Purdue. Maybe he wants a degree. I'm not sure he would be drafted now but with some improvement maybe he gets drafted next year so it would appear he has very little to gain by declaring a year ahead of everybody's expectations. Chances are there will be no Biggie next year and he will get lots of opportunities to show any improvements he has made in the off season. We don't have another back to the basket big man at the moment or at least not one who is healthy so he will be our primary post player. When he is in the game, I'm sure the offense will run through him. I want him to play amazing and would be thrilled if he was good enough to go in the 1st round and I would be equally happy if he goes in the 2nd . Chances of going in the first are slim with the way today's game is played.
You are right, I seldom watch the NBA any more. I find the game boring. I looked up the Golden State Warriors who I heard are transforming the league by going smaller. Hark! They still have centers and PF who do not shoot the 3. Green does and is hitting a measly 30%. Green is quick and more importantly he is very experienced. You are probably right and Haas should not enter the game WHEN Green plays center. However, the other centers STILL play 27 minutes a game and I contend Haas can defend them and he can score on them.
I thus maintain that Haas can still be valuable a few minutes a game in the NBA next year. I also maintain that with the right development Haas can easily play over 20 minutes a game. The main flaw in Haas that can be developed is a mean streak where he aggressively defends, sets picks and rebounds. As I said before, this all depends on Haas' desire. Biggie has it and attacks every rebound. I was hoping AJ and Haas would pick this up. In college when AJ or Haas were aggressive, the refs would call fouls and Matt would sit them. In the NBA, there won't be as many calls and their coaches should reward them for being aggressive (not dirty).
On my point regarding D, I think I am saying the same thing, but I will amend my question. Can you recall a game in which the man Haas was guarding continually dribbled around him? I mentioned Happ, because his game is dribbling, reporters have him as an early 2nd round pick and I checked his FG% and it was 58.5 for the season.
